PL D FA Premier League

Southampton 1:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sun, 22 August 2021

NoMidfielders

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Think this exposed what many of us were worried about, our fitness is no where near where it needs to be yet. Last 30 minutes all movement off the ball stopped and the passing became unbearably slow and sloppy. Same thing happened against Leeds in the last 20 but luckily we were miles clear by then.
 

Smores

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Just the same old issues really. On any given day we'll drastically underperform our own quality.

Why we started Martial i have no idea.
 

Bondi77

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Pogba was good today followed by Mason and Luke whom put in some killer balls in the first half.
That was a shocker by Harry and Fred in possession in his own half is always a worry IMO.
I would like Sancho to start next game and at least get the first hour in and move Mason central as Martial was anonymous again.
I reckon Ed May have got a couple today with his head in the first half as there were a few excellent deliveries by Bruno and Luke.
 

mark_a

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We had chances, and the majority of the possession, plus their goal came from a nailed on foul. A minute or two before that foul on Bruno, Bruno was penalised for a perfectly good challenge where he took the ball first, then the player - so consistency would be nice. Even Souness said it was!

I suspect it's too early to be making sweeping generalisations about our team, but Matic and Fred certainly looked lacking. Or put another way - a team with Matic and Fred in their starting XI isn't going to win the league.
 

Jordan_mufc

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Think this exposed what many of us were worried about, our fitness is no where near where it needs to be yet. Last 30 minutes all movement off the ball stopped and the passing became unbearably slow and sloppy. Same thing happened against Leeds in the last 20 but luckily we were miles clear by then.
I agree, Leeds had 3 or 4 big chances towards the end of the game that they spurned. Same with Southampton. We really need to get up to scratch quickly
 
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No he’s played well in other games too. Where he’s not played well is when he’s given literally 5 or 10 minutes at the end of the game when all the best players have been taken off and when he’s not even had a consistent run of games. Fact is even when he was playing well, the second Fred or mctominay were fit, he was replaced. Then he lost confidence and form. When he has been given a full game it’s usually when he’s surrounded by the reserves. Stick him in the first team surrounded by quality players and give him a run of five or six games then let’s see how he does. He certainly couldn’t have done worse than our midfield today. And based on his resistance to the press, he’d probably have done a lot better.
Which games?
 

Kcocymkcus

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Any manager that still believes Jessie Lingard is the answer, isn't fit for the job. End of.
 

Matt851

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Although its early in the season the frustrating thing about this game is that anyone who watched the team last season could see a poor performance coming after seeing matic in midfield and martial up front. The questions has to be asked, why can't ole see this? It made no sense to move mason from the cf role after his performance last week and dvb or pogba would have been better options than matic in midfield. Both may have their flaws defensively but would have allowed us to beat the press more easily and would have actually stayed in midfield rather than dropping into defence like matic does.

I am guessing ole recognises the need for a midfielder but he needs to be more focussed on addressing this. For example, lingard should know he has no place at the club anymore and shouldnt have come on yesterday, james should also be shipped out. Our approach to managing contract renewals reinforces my belief ole is a bit of a soft touch. Extending the contracts of players such as jones, matic, perreira and mata when there best days are so clearly behind them
 

oz insomniac

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The problem facing the club was evident in a game that we should have been on the front foot ensuring a good start to the season.

Selections were hard to understand given the need to win and play against a hard pressing team, Matic is sound but found out for speed and reaction leaving Fred more exposed than usual as almost the sole defensive mid.

Starting with Martial was beyond stupid and he should not start in the EPL this season and preferably be sold. Lingard doesn’t add anything and if we could get something for him, use it to fund a transfer in.

Put a rocket up Lindelof when he is in possession inside our half, too many loose balls and lost tackles, even Maguire needs a slap now and again, can’t lose the ball around the box.

In a nutshell, Ole and his selections show he doesn’t always comprehend how difficult every game is in the EPL, subs and midfield need a deep look or maybe a better manager.
 

Solius

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The problem facing the club was evident in a game that we should have been on the front foot ensuring a good start to the season.

Selections were hard to understand given the need to win and play against a hard pressing team, Matic is sound but found out for speed and reaction leaving Fred more exposed than usual as almost the sole defensive mid.

Starting with Martial was beyond stupid and he should not start in the EPL this season and preferably be sold. Lingard doesn’t add anything and if we could get something for him, use it to fund a transfer in.

Put a rocket up Lindelof when he is in possession inside our half, too many loose balls and lost tackles, even Maguire needs a slap now and again, can’t lose the ball around the box.

In a nutshell, Ole and his selections show he doesn’t always comprehend how difficult every game is in the EPL, subs and midfield need a deep look or maybe a better manager.
I think the Matic selection couldn't be helped as McTominay was injured and Pogba is in WC form playing further up. We have no other options there. Us needing players is another matter.

The Martial selection was the worst for me. I get he wants to play him into form but it's just not happening.
 

Jaykespeare88

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The build up was so slow and laborious, where we trying to draw them out while Haych was standing around with his foot on the ball? What's the point of that when Soton actually pressed us and we shit ourselves.
Bruno should have taken Pogbas role and picked the ball up from deep, matfred is no where near good enough for patient build up.
 

DomesticTadpole

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The problem facing the club was evident in a game that we should have been on the front foot ensuring a good start to the season.

Selections were hard to understand given the need to win and play against a hard pressing team, Matic is sound but found out for speed and reaction leaving Fred more exposed than usual as almost the sole defensive mid.

Starting with Martial was beyond stupid and he should not start in the EPL this season and preferably be sold. Lingard doesn’t add anything and if we could get something for him, use it to fund a transfer in.

Put a rocket up Lindelof when he is in possession inside our half, too many loose balls and lost tackles, even Maguire needs a slap now and again, can’t lose the ball around the box.

In a nutshell, Ole and his selections show he doesn’t always comprehend how difficult every game is in the EPL, subs and midfield need a deep look or maybe a better manager.
Think he sent the players out with the wrong attitude yesterday. There was no need for changes, except Scott, then you do not replace him with Matic whose legs have gone, against a side who will press you. Making those changes gave the impression to the players it was going to be an easy game. Send your first team out and get another win, set down a marker. You know you can continue this unbeaten run with wins Ole. I also think he keeps too many players because they are good in the dressing room, which is fine if they still offer plenty on the pitch. There are at least three place in the first team squad taken up by them. I also think it does take players time to settle in, but sitting them on the bench and giving them a game every ten or half an hour here and there does not do that. They need a sustained run in the team to build understanding with teammates. He bought Donny, barely plays, bought Amad and Pellistri, are they going to be money wasted that could have gone into the midfield? Lukaku started, yet Sancho and Varane can't. I can now see why he wanted Trippier so much, did he not realise AWB can defend but cannot attack? Don't get me started on Martial, he looks unfit and disinterested. He should be on the bench with Mason up front until Cavani is back.
 

Marcus

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I would have thrown on a half-fit Cavani as a desparate gamble. Could have paid off.
 

1988

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We aren't in shape yet. Most of our preseason was played by our u23 and fillers, some whom have now gone on loan.

It'll take us some time to get into gear. Southampton seemed sharper and stronger. They knew they could punish us for our lack of match fitness.
 

Gordon S

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I see a lot of people are upset with Ole picking Matic and Fred in midfield, but with Scott not at 100% fitness he doesn’t really have a choice. Pogba is much more effective higher up the pitch. Donny hasn’t shown anything there so far, Pereira and Garner is out on loan. We need another cm in this week.
 

El Zoido

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Simply a poor performance, but their goal was such a fluke. Firstly, it was probably a freekick on Bruno. Seen them given many times before, he was absolutely clattered off the ball (ball was not won first).

Secondly, that shot was godawful, going so far wide it was an own goal in the end. But it happened to deflect and spin in to the one exact place that would have resulted in a goal. An inch one way or the other and De Gea saves it, or it hits the post. But make your own luck, I suppose, and we didn’t deserve to win this game.
 

yipthatman

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Before kick off my nephew can't understand why Ole didnt start Sancho and Varane. I was telling him don't worry. Ole knows what he's doing. Haha silly me
Donny hasn’t shown anything there so far.
Totally agree with this. There is a weird pro-Donny cult among some United fans as if he should be an automatic starter every game and I haven't seen anything from him to warrant this since he has been here. He consistently, just passes straight back to the person that passed to him then moves to another space which seams pointless and too safe to me (van Gaal play).

People then start to ignore him for being the pointless back-passer that he is and pass to someone else instead as he does nothing of substance with the ball. Also he looked weak, unconfident and timid when playing last season. I definitely wouldn't have started him this game and would be surprised if he is even still here next month. I actually like Donny and wanted it to work out for him but no way does he have any sort of god given right to start a premier league match. He is bang average at best. Saying that there are a few other players that played that this also applies to. Way too much nostalgia at United. Hoping people are going to 'come good' is not very organized and a bit directionless. Look at Chelsea and how ruthless they are when needed and how it pays off.
 

Smores

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Because there was no Cavani available!
Cavani wasn't available for Leeds either as far as i recall.

Rather than rewarding Greenwood who had a good prior game we said actually no let's start this guy who hasn't performed and doesn't even work for his place in the team. Great message that is.

At this stage I'd rather start Bruno up top than Martial.
 

HailtotheKing

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I think the Matic selection couldn't be helped as McTominay was injured and Pogba is in WC form playing further up. We have no other options there. Us needing players is another matter.

The Martial selection was the worst for me. I get he wants to play him into form but it's just not happening.
Martial has been out injured for months. He lacks fitness and sharpness and well, pretty much everything right now. If he was gonna start it should’ve been on the wing. I also don’t get why we partnered Donny with Matic in preseason and it looked good, so why didn’t we do that in the game? Especially against a high pressing saints. And then the low block which Donny is well used to. But instead he brings Lingard on, risking injury (so I assume he has no plans to sell him). Dire.
 

Maticmaker

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There certainly was an element of "after the Lord Mayors show" about this game.

However lets be honest, we had enough chances in the first half alone to have won this game at a cantor. No Cavani, no Rashford, Greenwood playing out of position, didn't help, but Pogba was looking good, Bruno too, Shaw getting at them down the wing and even AWB getting a spurt on now and again on the right.
Southampton's Christmas came earlier, dodgy tackle wins the ball, massive deflection, ball finds net 1-0 the Saints. Reminded me of my first FA Cup final at Wembley, 40 odd years ago when the Saints (with the help of Lou Macari's broken toe) did us then.

Thankfully, after missing better opportunities, Greenwood finally stepped up to save our blushes.... he should have been the MOTM, but wasn't!
 

Solius

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Martial has been out injured for months. He lacks fitness and sharpness and well, pretty much everything right now. If he was gonna start it should’ve been on the wing. I also don’t get why we partnered Donny with Matic in preseason and it looked good, so why didn’t we do that in the game? Especially against a high pressing saints. And then the low block which Donny is well used to. But instead he brings Lingard on, risking injury (so I assume he has no plans to sell him). Dire.
I agree about Martial but a Matic - VDB midfield would be a disaster. One is immobile and the other is too weak and not quick or gritty enough to be in that area. Unfortunately Donny is competing with Pogba and Bruno to play in a more advanced role. Pre-season doesn't mean much in terms of performances.

I'm not sure why bringing on Lingard risked injury. He's not injury prone and probably gets the same runouts in training.
 

Nicoseth

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I agree about Martial but a Matic - VDB midfield would be a disaster. One is immobile and the other is too weak and not quick or gritty enough to be in that area. Unfortunately Donny is competing with Pogba and Bruno to play in a more advanced role. Pre-season doesn't mean much in terms of performances.

I'm not sure why bringing on Lingard risked injury. He's not injury prone and probably gets the same runouts in training.
I disagree totally. I think VDB would do much better in the CM role than Fred for example. It may not be his strongest position but how many stinkers have we seen from Fred in that role. Fred's performance yesterday was one of the worst I have ever seen from a United midfielder - terrible passing, sloppy on the ball - just not good enough. I wouldn't play VDB with Matic, I would play him with McTom.
 

Maticmaker

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Cavani wasn't available for Leeds either as far as i recall.

Rather than rewarding Greenwood who had a good prior game we said actually no let's start this guy who hasn't performed and doesn't even work for his place in the team. Great message that is.

At this stage I'd rather start Bruno up top than Martial.
No he wasn't, but I suspect to get in the others players in he wanted, Ole chose Martial to lead the line ...again; lets hope he doesn't do it next week.

Martial's way off his best, has been for a while, not sure what we do with him!
 

Solius

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I disagree totally. I think VDB would do much better in the CM role than Fred for example. It may not be his strongest position but how many stinkers have we seen from Fred in that role. Fred's performance yesterday was one of the worst I have ever seen from a United midfielder - terrible passing, sloppy on the ball - just not good enough. I wouldn't play VDB with Matic, I would play him with McTom.
Fred has an awful bottom level I agree, but he also has very good games where his agility and line breaking benefits us greatly and his passing isn't so bad on those days. I think it's the best we've got unless we sign another midfielder.

I've seen nothing from VDB to show he can play in a midfield two. He doesn't even have the passing range to attempt most things. His overall sort of 'circle of play' if you will is very short and close to him. He relies on one-twos and lay-offs.

Again I can only go by what I've watched but he's not someone who I think would be able to break lines and play passes.
 

Nicoseth

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Just getting round to the match reaction now. Very disappointing for a few reasons. To be clear - I am not an Ole-out but he failed yesterday. Main points of frustration:

- Players seemed lethargic and slow on the ball - that's either a fitness or attitude issue - both are unacceptable at this stage of the season

- Several players had shockers - Fred, Maguire, Martial, AWB, Matic. Some need to be dropped for an extended period or sold.

- Why don't we use VDB? I just don't get it. I think it's now translating to fans becoming angry at Ole for not using him.

- Team selection was wrong from the start - Varane, Sancho need to start. If Lingard can come off the bench after having covid last week, why can't Sancho or Varane start? Sancho has been training for weeks at this stage. I get there is player loyalty but if we want to win then the manager has to be brave and drop players.

- Our mentality seemed fragile. Several players seemed intimidated by the atmosphere and this played into Soton's hands.

Wolves is now must-win already. Not an easy game either. Ole needs to grow a pair and play his strongest team, not the team the played and failed last year.
 

yipthatman

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Just getting round to the match reaction now. Very disappointing for a few reasons. To be clear - I am not an Ole-out but he failed yesterday. Main points of frustration:

- Players seemed lethargic and slow on the ball - that's either a fitness or attitude issue - both are unacceptable at this stage of the season

- Several players had shockers - Fred, Maguire, Martial, AWB, Matic. Some need to be dropped for an extended period or sold.

- Why don't we use VDB? I just don't get it. I think it's now translating to fans becoming angry at Ole for not using him.

- Team selection was wrong from the start - Varane, Sancho need to start. If Lingard can come off the bench after having covid last week, why can't Sancho or Varane start? Sancho has been training for weeks at this stage. I get there is player loyalty but if we want to win then the manager has to be brave and drop players.

- Our mentality seemed fragile. Several players seemed intimidated by the atmosphere and this played into Soton's hands.

Wolves is now must-win already. Not an easy game either. Ole needs to grow a pair and play his strongest team, not the team the played and failed last year.
Is there a particular quality that you think he would have brought to the game or is it just that no one else was really any good so he should have played? I must be missing something as everyone is saying it.
 

Maticmaker

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I've seen nothing from VDB to show he can play in a midfield two. He doesn't even have the passing range to attempt most things. His overall sort of 'circle of play' if you will is very short and close to him. He relies on one-twos and lay-offs.
Agreed Donny's strength is as a 'pass-and-move' player, moving forward in triangles, we don't do that.... the only other player at OT who is good at that (in the past) has been Mata; maybe that is where Ole sees him finishing up as Juan's replacement?
 

McGrathsipan

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Just watched their goal again in detail.
Still can't for the life of me understand how that is not a foul.

Saying that the "defending" after that was utterly garbage.
 

Fussball13251

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We badly needed to win that game to get into a winning streak rhythm before the West Ham game.

I thought we'd win this game for sure.
 

redmanx

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Didn't you ever see England trying to play Gerrard and Lampard, two attacking midfielders, in a central midfield 2? It didn't lead to incredible attacking play.

Some players can excel in multiple positions, but playing people out of position is risky and rarely seems to work.

You won't find many people who want to see Bruno and Pogba in a midfield 2.
The likes of Zinedine Zidane, Platini, Clarence Seedorf and others were all amazed that Paul Scholes wasnt the first name on England team sheets and suggested that he should have played in midfield supported by Gerrard.
 

clarkydaz

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I agree about Martial but a Matic - VDB midfield would be a disaster. One is immobile and the other is too weak and not quick or gritty enough to be in that area. Unfortunately Donny is competing with Pogba and Bruno to play in a more advanced role. Pre-season doesn't mean much in terms of performances.

I'm not sure why bringing on Lingard risked injury. He's not injury prone and probably gets the same runouts in training.
they played against Everton a few weeks ago and we played great
 

Man of the Match

Paul Pogba image Paul Pogba 62% of 307 votes

Runners-up

Player Ratings

5.2 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 355 ratings.

Score Predictions

321,8,10
  • Man Utd win
  • Southampton win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 27% Southampton 0:3 Man Utd
  • 24% Southampton 1:3 Man Utd
  • 17% Southampton 0:2 Man Utd
  • 10% Southampton 1:2 Man Utd
  • 6% Southampton 0:4 Man Utd
  • 5% Southampton 1:4 Man Utd
  • 4% Southampton 0:5 Man Utd
  • 2% Southampton 1:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 0:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 2:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 2:3 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 2:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 0:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Southampton 2:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Southampton 5:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Southampton 1:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Southampton 1:0 Man Utd
Compiled from 339 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Southampton
  2. Man Utd
Possession
36% 64%
Shots
8 15
Shots on Target
3 4
Corners
7 7
Fouls
12 10

Referee

Craig Pawson