[Reddevildans]

This game is pretty indicative with the state of modern and premier league football. Lack of flare, lack of stars, lack of off the cuff invention, and back to basics football. Football must be losing millions of fans every month because the game is just so robotic now. Spurs are terrible, I cant actually believe how high they are in the table. We've got 8 points from the last 12 games which I suppose is ok considering the teams we have played (2 bogey teams and Liverpool). There should be disappointment in that we have drawn 2 games whilst leading. We have no attacking depth and the midfield is poor. We need another string of victories after the international break to have any chance of getting european football as its so tight at the top.

 

[Jeffthered]

This game is pretty indicative with the state of modern and premier league football. Lack of flare, lack of stars, lack of off the cuff invention, and back to basics football. Football must be losing millions of fans every month because the game is just so robotic now. Spurs are terrible, I cant actually believe how high they are in the table. We've got 8 points from the last 12 games which I suppose is ok considering the teams we have played (2 bogey teams and Liverpool). There should be disappointment in that we have drawn 2 games whilst leading. We have no attacking depth and the midfield is poor. We need another string of victories after the international break to have any chance of getting european football as its so tight at the top.

I think you're being quite cynical. I broadly agree about the state of the modern game, it has been more hype, chat, and now stats, for quite a while. Messi and Ronaldo are still better than many players for example. Kane, Lewandoski.. I suppose Lamine Yamal is a potential star. Mbappe still holds the torch, but Estavao etc gives hope.

We have a v limited squad, and we are stabilising a v damaged 'ship' as it were.

I do think we are improving, but our squad needs more depth, that's obvious.

 

[RopersReturn]

The second half highlighted the weakness in our squad. Ignoring central defence, we have maybe 8 good players occupying 8 positions. The drop off in quality from Casemiro to Ugarte, Mbeumo to Sesko, Cunha to Zirkzee, Amad to Dalot, Lammens to Bayindir etc is far, far too great.

We're therefore banking on those 8 players performing consistently at a high level for 90 minutes, or we're expecting mediocre players to outperform their ability.

Some very good points here. Pretty much sums up where we are at the moment, especially until we invest by bringing in a couple of midfielders and another attacking option on the left.

 

[Utd heap]

This game is pretty indicative with the state of modern and premier league football. Lack of flare, lack of stars, lack of off the cuff invention, and back to basics football. Football must be losing millions of fans every month because the game is just so robotic now. Spurs are terrible, I cant actually believe how high they are in the table. We've got 8 points from the last 12 games which I suppose is ok considering the teams we have played (2 bogey teams and Liverpool). There should be disappointment in that we have drawn 2 games whilst leading. We have no attacking depth and the midfield is poor. We need another string of victories after the international break to have any chance of getting european football as its so tight at the top.

Yes I'm sure the 2-2 draw, with 2 goals in stoppage time will have bored the tits off fans wordlwide

 

[Glorio]

Why were Cunha and Mbeumo swapped in their positions even after Amad went to RWB, anyone know?

I assumed Amorim kept Mbeumo left for defensive solidarity against Porro's crossing, but even when Mount came on for Cunha, he went to the right.

At the end of the day, Mbeumo scored anyway, but one would have thought we'd cause Spurs all sorts of problems if Amad and Mbeumo were together to continue their link up.

 

[Todd]

I thought we pretty much sucked, and we were lucky not to have conceded a few more.

It's pretty clear that we're just not capable of keeping a clean sheet, which is so frustrating. We're starting every match knowing that at bare minimum we'll need at least two goals to have even a chance of winning.

All of the positivity after three wins in a row is pretty much gone now.

 

[Oranges038]

Terrible game of football overall, but once again having to scramble a draw after retreating with a 1-0 lead and fecking it away.

Ugarte going into midfield again is such a waste of time, he's fecking useless. Dalot coming on is also a waste of time.

 

[RedSky]

Casemiro coming off meant that we lost control, but the man was gassed. He can't play a full 90.

It's a common theme too. Our midfield tires in the 2nd half and we have no options to come on to plug the hole.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I’m glad Onana wasn’t there to throw away the points. Mbeumo is a great signing. DeLigt was superb.

 

[Gavinb33]

It's a common theme too. Our midfield tires in the 2nd half and we have no options to come on to plug the hole.

Even in the first half it was no great shakes, the game was a terrible advert for the PL, pretty sure this league is gonna eat itself in the end with more and more drab games like this

 

[IrishRedDevil]

On a day where Arsenal drop 2 points, I am still pissed that we didn’t beat a very poor Spurs team who are missing 4 starters.

 

[justsomebloke]

I thought we pretty much sucked, and we were lucky not to have conceded a few more.

It's pretty clear that we're just not capable of keeping a clean sheet, which is so frustrating. We're starting every match knowing that at bare minimum we'll need at least two goals to have even a chance of winning.

All of the positivity after three wins in a row is pretty much gone now.

Both Spurs goals came off our right side, and after Amad moved to RWB. Starting to be a concern, that.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Meh it’s a decent result but given how the game was going it feels like a loss because they really didn’t look like hurting us at all and we looked in control.

 

[DSG]

2 points dropped.

Mbeumo was really good again and I thought Mount pressed well and kept possession well when he came on. Lemmens was really good also.

Sesko was piss poor with his chances.

Bruno was terrible in possession and with set pieces.

Cunha poor in the 2nd half and conceded possession far too easily.

Bizarre take on Bruno. There were maybe a couple of passes that he gave away, but I thought he was generally good and the run for the Amad ball was gangster. On another day he buries it.

Sesko needs time. I do think his hold up play helps us. Obviously, he’s going to need to start scoring and at least getting shots on frame.

I thought it was a good first half, the 5-4-1 when defending is compact and fairly difficult to penetrate. Build up play was pretty slick. We really didn’t concede many real chances in the first half.

Ugarte isn’t up to it, and I think that’s been clear for awhile now. Casemiro is so much better positionally and in distribution going forward, the drop off is immense. That sub probably cost us the game.

 

[TwoSheds]

I'm not upset with the result but again I feel like the game was there for the taking and we didn't really go for it. Disappointed. Enjoying having a bit more control in games but it's disappointing for a Man Utd team not to really go for it and kill off the game when they're better than the other team.

 

[NZT-One]

I thought Spurs will be more mad about themselves for not getting the three points. We played ok and were very efficient, thats a great thing to have or do but I am starting to sense a course of the season that is a waste of time. To play like we did against a depleted Spurs team isn't ideal - Adam Clery called it underdog football when we did it to somewhat good effect against Liverpool and it is fine to resort to such tactics in big games but it feels as if this is shaping up to the default and I don't like that at all. It is pragmatic and it may be the best way to grind out results with that team but I can't really see us ending up with any trophy and then this could turn out to be a waste of a season that could (and probably should) be used to implement a different way of playing.

 

[GreatDane]

Even in the first half it was no great shakes, the game was a terrible advert for the PL, pretty sure this league is gonna eat itself in the end with more and more drab games like this

We have one game a week so we should have the energy to push for 90 mins.

 

[croadyman]

These past 2 draws where we squandered a chance to be second reminds me of those frustrating draws in Mourinho's first season. We'd go ahead, and not put the game to bed. Undecided if this is a positive or negative sign.

Negative unless by some miracle we actually turns these draws into wins later in the season

 

[hn4united]

Keep bringing Ugarte in for Casemiro will cost Amorim his job eventually! He comes in and we lose control of the game time and time again.

 

[Pav1878]

Like ive said before, we arent ready to grind out 1-0 wins especially away from home.

This is progress though as we would have lost both these past two games last season.

We are 3-4 players away from being a comfortable top four team

 

[NZT-One]

Like ive said before, we arent ready to grind out 1-0 wins especially away from home.

This is progress though as we would have lost both these past two games last season.

We are 3-4 players away from being a comfortable top four team

Pretty sure that applies for a lot of teams.

 

[Pav1878]

Pretty sure that applies for a lot of teams.

Not really.

 

[NZT-One]

Not really.

Well, we'll never know for sure but considering we are one of the least good teams when it comes to defending and considering that 3-4 players are a third of the team, I'd say you could make a case for a few other teams to be in the same situation as we are. Especially considering the way we are playing these days

 

[Schmeichel=God]

I read the first page and to get the gist of the sentiments, and then a few more posts to get here.

My goodness, I can't believe the negativity. We got an away draw against a team on the same points as us who were looking to go, for a moment, second in the league.

We had a bit of bad luck near the end and were going to lose, but away from home we throw everyone forward and score a last minute goal. Our new goalkeeper made two great saves, showing he is going to be the real deal and we had some good individual performances and we were unrecognisable from the dross that we were last season -- and the majority of comments here are very negative.

It's because of the eye test on the general play, the lack of control, the constantly being stretched and never a moment of calm. It's utter chaos! Our guys are busting a gut everywhere, isolated, under pressure constantly, no ability to get a game under our spell. Second best in everything. Wasteful up front, chasm in the middle, constantly up against it busting hernias just to stay in a game.

Whilst the players could do better in certain spots, it's a sign of the gameplan being ill suited to imposing ourselves on matches.

Spurs were poor, yet owned us. That's the point. I don't care about their position and home or away. It's not this game in isolation either. We're regularly turning in performances akin to my first paragraph. It's not becoming of a side that wants to be a top team.

I'm a firm believer you create your own good or bad luck. Our lack of steel and control eventually leads to moments where the opponent can find their luck. We were poor.

If I'm searching for positives I can only reference the odd moments whereby the press looked coordinated and we caused them to turn over possession with a punted ball. That was mainly only a few moments in the first half. The rest of the game was tail chasing. Lammens is fantastic. I've laid out points about why he is a breath of fresh air elsewhere before. I even complimented Bruno today. But the overwhelming sentiment today imo is absolutely and fully worthy of hard criticism.

 

[simonhch]

Our defending is just so so poor. We concede so many goals. I find it unforgivable. The only teams to have concede more than us are Burnley, West Ham, Forest, and Wolves. The bottom four. How we can be so shut at the back when we only have one game a week and a mountain of time to prepare is beyond explanation. Crystal Palace have conceded HALF the number of goals we have (9 vs 18).

I am actually okay with the defensive line up, and the attacking line up, but the entire midfield section (the four across) is a shambles. It’s the one area we haven’t address in the market and it shows. For all his talents, Bruno Fernandes is not a centre midfielder who can play in a 2. We are pairing him with a 33yr old Casemiro who is out of contract in the summer, while we sit a 23yr old expensive midfielder on the bench, in Ugarte, and have basically frozen out one of the brightest midfield prospects in the world in a 20yr old Kobbie Mainoo.

Frankly I’d be playing Bruno or Mount off the left hand side in the LWB slot as the player basically tucks into midfield or supports the attack most of the time, play Amad RWB and play something far more disciplined and robust in the center in Ugarte and Casemiro, with Mainoo rotating in. All of our LWB options are so fecking poor, I am not sure how it could make us any worse defensively or in midfield, because we are already conceding at a rate of nearly 2 a game.

What’s really fecking annoying is that you could play a back four of Mazroui, De Ligt, Yoro and Shaw, with a midfield 3 of Casemiro, Mainoo and Bruno, Amad and Cunha either side of a false 9 in Mbeumo and probably have a much better team. Especially when you still have Sesko and Mount to rotate in, or Maguire on defence. This 3-4-3 nonsense only serves to highlight that we don’t have any players, outside of Amad, who can actually play the role as required. It constantly leaves us either lacking in attacking or exposed defensively. I don’t think 3-4-3 is necessarily a bad formation, but you need the right wide players, and a couple of energetic box to box midfielders. None of which we have, and the ones we do have we don’t seem to fancy.

Both Forest and Spurs were really shit and should’ve been beaten. We are congratulating ourselves because they are games we’d have lost last season, being 2-1 down in both. But we never should’ve been 2-1 in either. What someone like Iraola could do with this squad is very frustrating,

 

[Betson]

No urgency is in that 2nd half, we are just so passive and reactive at times , we don't dictate anything even when the opposition are playing very poorly. We only play once a week but still don't look any fresher than any of our opposition , in fact the opposite most of the time.

 

[TwoSheds]

Our defending is just so so poor. We concede so many goals. I find it unforgivable. The only teams to have concede more than us are Burnley, West Ham, Forest, and Wolves. The bottom four. How we can be so shut at the back when we only have one game a week and a mountain of time to prepare is beyond explanation. Crystal Palace have conceded HALF the number of goals we have (9 vs 18).

I am actually okay with the defensive line up, and the attacking line up, but the entire midfield section (the four across) is a shambles. It’s the one area we haven’t address in the market and it shows. For all his talents, Bruno Fernandes is not a centre midfielder who can play in a 2. We are pairing him with a 33yr old Casemiro who is out of contract in the summer, while we sit a 23yr old expensive midfielder on the bench, in Ugarte, and have basically frozen out one of the brightest midfield prospects in the world in a 20yr old Kobbie Mainoo.

Frankly I’d be playing Bruno or Mount off the left hand side in the LWB slot as the player basically tucks into midfield or supports the attack most of the time, play Amad RWB and play something far more disciplined and robust in the center in Ugarte and Casemiro, with Mainoo rotating in. All of our LWB options are so fecking poor, I am not sure how it could make us any worse defensively or in midfield, because we are already conceding at a rate of nearly 2 a game.

What’s really fecking annoying is that you could play a back four of Mazroui, De Ligt, Yoro and Shaw, with a midfield 3 of Casemiro, Mainoo and Bruno, Amad and Cunha either side of a false 9 in Mbeumo and probably have a much better team. Especially when you still have Sesko and Mount to rotate in, or Maguire on defence. This 3-4-3 nonsense only serves to highlight that we don’t have any players, outside of Amad, who can actually play the role as required. It constantly leaves us either lacking in attacking or exposed defensively. I don’t think 3-4-3 is necessarily a bad formation, but you need the right wide players, and a couple of energetic box to box midfielders. None of which we have, and the ones we do have we don’t seem to fancy.

Both Forest and Spurs were really shit and should’ve been beaten. We are congratulating ourselves because they are games we’d have lost last season, being 2-1 down in both. But we never should’ve been 2-1 in either. What someone like Iraola could do with this squad is very frustrating,

I don't think Forest were really shit, Spurs were though. Genuinely I think they're 2 good points looking from before the game, but after how we played during I think it's very disappointing not to take at least one win.

 

[MyDevil]

What I don't understand is why Cunha and Mbeumo were not at their usual positions when Sesko came in. Cunha was not at his best there and Mbeumo obviously works well with Amad. We should have reverted to the familiar formation after the 1st sub.

I think the idea for the subs to come in were correct but they didn't deliver, particularly Ugarte and Sesko wasted 2 good chances. No Mainoo to come in for Bruno, who is again crap. We really lack of options in midfield. Don't know why we have never tried Mount there.

 

[Nas-JR]

Sure. But the true mark of progress will be when we don't have to resort to last minute goals to save a point in the first place. The drop in intensity and mentality after half time is concerning.we

I thought Spurs will be more mad about themselves for not getting the three points. We played ok and were very efficient, thats a great thing to have or do but I am starting to sense a course of the season that is a waste of time. To play like we did against a depleted Spurs team isn't ideal - Adam Clery called it underdog football when we did it to somewhat good effect against Liverpool and it is fine to resort to such tactics in big games but it feels as if this is shaping up to the default and I don't like that at all. It is pragmatic and it may be the best way to grind out results with that team but I can't really see us ending up with any trophy and then this could turn out to be a waste of a season that could (and probably should) be used to implement a different way of playing.

Against the bigger teams away we're going to be like that. You can call it what you like but that's, exactly how, we played away with Fergie so it's not exactly limited to this united side. All big teams tend to play in a pragmatic way away to bigger teams. Arsenal at our ground and Liverpools... And Newcastles. City at arsenal's etc etc.

We have been a lot more expansive at home against big and smaller teams and we've scored a fair amount this year so it's hardly like we've been starved of forward football.

 

[sleepehead]

Still not sold on this system, even though we have more defenders we're weak defensively. We're still giving up too many easy attacks, our defense is basically designed to bend but not break, we let the opposing team to come and attack once they get passed the initial press. And our WBs aren't good enough and get caught in more 2v1 situations then I'd like.

 

[reelworld]

A few things:
- We'll be fecked when Afcon come around, Mbuemo and Amad are 2 our best and dangerous players.
- Dorgu has the engine and enough defensive awareness of not letting his man slips him by (Dalot, take note), but he has absolutely 0 offensive capabilities. Poor crossing and non existent shooting
- Casemiro should play the full 90 minutes if he only play 1 match a week. Ugarte is definitely not the answer and we need to move on and get a proper replacement for Case.
- Amad need to stay at RWB and Maz should only cover for RCB. He's absolutely awful at RWB, our right wing attack was almost non existent when he played there and only moments of Amad brilliance provided some sparks. When Amad moved fully to RWB we were good again there. If we need to rotate between the 3 attackers, Mount should come in rather than making Amad played there
- Sesko is a new striker finding his feet in PL, lay off him. He's been in and out the team and we need to be patient with him. This is not a Hojlund situation where he clearly does not have the tool to play in PL. Sesko absolutely have the physical ability to do so. Someone say that he's mind is still adjusting to the speed of PL, and I agree with that. Also, his physical presence, flicks and holding up the ball has been really good for us.
- Amorim needs to be braver when we lead 1-0. We are not defensively good enough to hold on to 1-0 leads. Yes you might conceded when trying to get the second goal, but at this point you are more likely to concede anyway because our defense (and midfield) are not good enough to keep it out. Might as well giving yourself a chance to get some more goals and win. Our second goal kinda proved this point. We are toothless in the second half, especially after Sesko went off and we are forced to play with 10 men. But after we went behind, we push forward, got a corner that led to a goal. Basically our attack, if we push forward, is good enough to score more than 1 goal

 

[NZT-One]

Against the bigger teams away we're going to be like that. You can call it what you like but that's, exactly how, we played away with Fergie so it's not exactly limited to this united side. All big teams tend to play in a pragmatic way away to bigger teams. Arsenal at our ground and Liverpools... And Newcastles. City at arsenal's etc etc.

You are right. The issue though is that the "big teams" are able to play differently as well. I am happy to see us play like we played today on occasion but it shouldn't be the default. Fergies late teams could play a possession game and a transitional game to very good effect. We are decent to good when it comes to transition but nothing more than average in possession. Its work in progress of course but it feels as if a few on here seem a little too comfortable with where we are.

We have been a lot more expansive at home against big and smaller teams and we've scored a fair amount this year so it's hardly like we've been starved of forward football.

I was more calling out the lack of control. We did well in terms of scoring but we also do not do well at all when it comes to preventing chances. I don't really see us playing too differently between games - yes the amount of possession might differ but that might be connected just as much to opposition teams game plan and surrendering the ball as it is us be "a lot more expansive".

 

[RedEM10]

I hate jumping the gun on players but sesko is Hojlind MK2. They are good players needing guidance from good established strikers.

How is zirkzee not gettint a start? Surely he thrives with these boys around him...

Today made me realise also, Harry Maguire is the first name on my team sheet. He's been brilliant, he makes sense ligt and shaw better also.

I like ugarte when he came but he offered nothing. I know the system isn't for him but my god he's invisible!!

Point will do, keep this unbeaten run and improve mentality. We soldier on

 

[Bondi77]

Losing this one was very disappointing.
Spurs were hopeless, they played in Europe and are without some of their best players and yet we were still lucky to get a draw with a fully fit team!
One thing that should not be happening this season is the opposition with more energy or outworking us and if anything we should be coming on strong against the teams with European commitments; hopefully that starts to happen soon.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I hate jumping the gun on players but sesko is Hojlind MK2. They are good players needing guidance from good established strikers.

How is zirkzee not gettint a start? Surely he thrives with these boys around him...

Today made me realise also, Harry Maguire is the first name on my team sheet. He's been brilliant, he makes sense ligt and shaw better also.

I like ugarte when he came but he offered nothing. I know the system isn't for him but my god he's invisible!!

Point will do, keep this unbeaten run and improve mentality. We soldier on

Stopped reading after that.

 

[RedEM10]

Stopped reading after that.

Why?

Hojlund had chances similar to today and fluffed them. An experienced striker gets across and at least has a good shot

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Why?

Hojlund had chances similar to today and fluffed them. An experienced striker gets across and at least has a good shot

Yes but Sesko brings a lot more that what Hojlund used to bring. All Hojlund did was wrestle and fall on his knees. So yeah I wouldn’t take such comments seriously in all honesty.

 

[Shalu@156]

Game was boring, yes. But we 100% losing that everytime in the last 5 years. Don't forget we drew level against the current Champions of Europe, apparently.

 

[reelworld]

Stopped reading after that.

The takes on Sesko here is borderline embarassing tbh

 

[croadyman]

We have one game a week so we should have the energy to push for 90 mins.

Precisely I'm not having this lame tired excuse, believe me we will realise come January just how costly these last two draws will prove to be.