[Nas-JR]

You are right. The issue though is that the "big teams" are able to play differently as well. I am happy to see us play like we played today on occasion but it shouldn't be the default. Fergies late teams could play a possession game and a transitional game to very good effect. We are decent to good when it comes to transition but nothing more than average in possession. Its work in progress of course but it feels as if a few on here seem a little too comfortable with where we are.

I was more calling out the lack of control. We did well in terms of scoring but we also do not do well at all when it comes to preventing chances. I don't really see us playing too differently between games - yes the amount of possession might differ but that might be connected just as much to opposition teams game plan and surrendering the ball as it is us be "a lot more expansive".

I think we are in agreement that we are still nowhere near where we'd like to be. You're right in that the level of control is still lacking but I've been encouraged a lot in terms of progress particularly regarding physicality, work ethic, teamwork and mentality which just wasn't there for a long time.

I personally believe those give you a solid foundation to then evolve into a dominating team. Unfortunately the reality is the squad is still lacking in several key departments and our depth is not really there. That will come and the signings so far have been fantastic.

I'm maybe more patient with it all as the bigger picture is that the footballing department is heading the right but it'll take time. Doesn't mean we rest on our laurels and I'm confident this new footballing setup isnt

 

[justsomebloke]

It's because of the eye test on the general play, the lack of control, the constantly being stretched and never a moment of calm. It's utter chaos! Our guys are busting a gut everywhere, isolated, under pressure constantly, no ability to get a game under our spell. Second best in everything. Wasteful up front, chasm in the middle, constantly up against it busting hernias just to stay in a game.

Whilst the players could do better in certain spots, it's a sign of the gameplan being ill suited to imposing ourselves on matches.

Spurs were poor, yet owned us. That's the point. I don't care about their position and home or away. It's not this game in isolation either. We're regularly turning in performances akin to my first paragraph. It's not becoming of a side that wants to be a top team.

I'm a firm believer you create your own good or bad luck. Our lack of steel and control eventually leads to moments where the opponent can find their luck. We were poor.

If I'm searching for positives I can only reference the odd moments whereby the press looked coordinated and we caused them to turn over possession with a punted ball. That was mainly only a few moments in the first half. The rest of the game was tail chasing. Lammens is fantastic. I've laid out points about why he is a breath of fresh air elsewhere before. I even complimented Bruno today. But the overwhelming sentiment today imo is absolutely and fully worthy of hard criticism.

"Owned us"? They had nothing until our substitutions. It was a scrappy game, but they didn't dominate it.

 

[justsomebloke]

Casemiro is our only top class DM and he's sadly at the end of his career and can't manage the full 90.

We've all said for several years that we'll never be up there fighting for titles without two world class CM players in their prime at the club.

All the noise from the better journalists suggest we're not buying in January, so it's going to remain like this until the summer most likely. Unable to control games and unable to keep clean sheets.

Spurs are in a very false position though based upon that. They are almost as shit as they were last season.

Also he is not a top class DM. Think the collective Casemiro praise is getting a bit much - it's not like he's suddenly back to being the player he was five or even three years ago. His passing has deteriorated and is actually looking mostly pretty bad to me. He still struggles one on one. But the team keeps a much more compact shape than we used to, so he doesn't get exposed like he used to, which helps him work better.

 

[OnkelHolli]

Awful subs. Taking Cunha and Casemiro off brought Spurs back in when we were in control

You're right with Casemiro, Ugarte shouldn't even be on the bench right now. As regards Cunha I believe on the contrary Mount should have come in ten minutes earlier.

 

[GaryLifo]

"Owned us"? They had nothing until our substitutions. It was a scrappy game, but they didn't dominate it.

Their goal came out of nowhere after a period of about 30 minutes where they didn't have s single shot on goal.

The worst trait we have is how often we concede a second really soon after conceding the first. That said, being down to ten men at 1-1 wasn't exactly the best scenario with them having their tails up from equalising.

 

[GaryLifo]

Also he is not a top class DM. Think the collective Casemiro praise is getting a bit much - it's not like he's suddenly back to being the player he was five or even three years ago. His passing has deteriorated and is actually looking mostly pretty bad to me. He still struggles one on one. But the team keeps a much more compact shape than we used to, so he doesn't get exposed like he used to, which helps him work better.

We'll have to disagree on this. 5 years ago he was world class. Now he is top class.

There's currently 3 veteran midfielders in the Premier league having really good seasons. Casemiro, Xhaka and (spits) Henderson.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

The takes on Sesko here is borderline embarassing tbh

From what i have seen, sesko will become a top striker. Never had that feeling with hojlund

 

[Reddevildans]

Yes I'm sure the 2-2 draw, with 2 goals in stoppage time will have bored the tits off fans wordlwide

Let's be honest. Apart from the goals and the last 10 mins, it wasn't entertaining.

 

[Reddevildans]

I think you're being quite cynical. I broadly agree about the state of the modern game, it has been more hype, chat, and now stats, for quite a while. Messi and Ronaldo are still better than many players for example. Kane, Lewandoski.. I suppose Lamine Yamal is a potential star. Mbappe still holds the torch, but Estavao etc gives hope.

We have a v limited squad, and we are stabilising a v damaged 'ship' as it were.

I do think we are improving, but our squad needs more depth, that's obvious.

Maybe being a bit cynical and nostalgic. But 20 years ago you would count 30-40 genuine world class players around the world and now you can count them on both hands. It's bad. You just have to look at the centre forwards out there. Not up to scratch and overpriced. Good midfielders and centre backs are lacking as well.

 

[justsomebloke]

Maybe being a bit cynical and nostalgic. But 20 years ago you would count 30-40 genuine world class players around the world and now you can count them on both hands. It's bad. You just have to look at the centre forwards out there. Not up to scratch and overpriced. Good midfielders and centre backs are lacking as well.

In my opinion not enough attention was given to the decision two years back to increase the threshold for calling fouls in the PL. The motivation was to make things more entertaining by having fewer stoppages in play, but it was predictable that it would hand an advantage to pace and physicality over technical skill and creativity. Making it more difficult and risky to hang on to the ball breeds a more direct style of play. Which is exactly the direction the PL has taken, and which entertains no one. Or not me, at any rate.

 

[reelworld]

From what i have seen, sesko will become a top striker. Never had that feeling with hojlund

I agree with you. The ones that thinks he's Hojlund mk 2 are embarassing

 

[Adamsk7]

In the

You're right with Casemiro, Ugarte shouldn't even be on the bench right now. As regards Cunha I believe on the contrary Mount should have come in ten minutes earlier.

post match Amorim said we lost momentum when we had to take off Maguire and Casemiro which suggests both were forced subs, not just Harry

 

[Tallis]

I will take the result given circumstances but our performance in the second half was really bad after a reasonably comfortable first half.

It looks like we don’t really want to keep the ball. Every time we are in an advanced situation, we play it back to the defense and someone launches a long ball. It seems Amorim has decided that the best way to get goals is to get behind the defense through direct balls. We need another gear and need to be a little bit more flexible.

 

[1988]

Draw is a good and fair result. Felt very happy with our 1st half but I did suspect we'd crumble in the 2nd half. Very important goal from de Ligt. It's very evident that our squad isn't strong enough for a comfortable top 4. But who knows we might squeeze us into the top 4 in May.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

A mixture of disappointment and relief. We weren't great but deservedly ahead and comfortable until they equalised apart from that very brief period where Lammens made a couple of good saves.

So we should have won really especially with Spurs' dismal home record. In the end though, rescuing a point with barely any time left and down to 10 feels okay.

 

[lysglimt]

So we’ve just needed an entire new team to be good - yet again.

I’m behind Amorim, but this cannot be the approach every time.

No we don't need a new team - we need 4-5 players for the squad....we have axed a lot of players, and there are 4-5 who still need to go. These need to be replaced

Goalkeepers - not worried at all - Lammens and maybe Vitek are more than good enough

Defenders - not worried at all - next summer we need 1 really good defender - but De Ligt, Lisandro, Maguire, Hayden, Shaw and Yoro are good enough for this season

Attacking midfielders - not worried at all - Mount, Cunha and Mbeumo are more than good enough

Wing-backs - right side is ok - left side is hopeless.

Central midfield - we need one quality midfielder in january. Every time Bruno and Casemiro leaves the pitch - we drop points.

Striker - we need a good striker to replace Zirkzee

 

[RaddyRed]

Atmosphere was very poor although London aways are traditionally quite quiet. Their fans created no noise either which isn't surprising with the tempo Spurs play at. Porro pulling his sock down to reveal his Europa League tattoo as he walked passed the away end was the 2nd half highlight until the equaliser

Overall delighted we ended up with a point after losing two silly late goals.

 

[Maticmaker]

Continuing signs of improvement yesterday, but very much in the '3 steps forward and 2 back' mode.
For me, Lammens continues to prove his worth, same with Mbeumo, de Ligt seems to be improving all the time, but not as sure about Cunas, and Sesko definitely is struggling with the adjustment to the pace of premiership football.... 'the United shirt is weighing heavily' (as the match commentator had it!!) on him at this point.

That last goal, whilst Spurs fans were still celebrating, was no fluke... it owed a lot to Mbeumo's work rate and persistence in winning the corner and de Ligt's determination to get his head on that ball.

Not one of the classic United v Spurs matches from years gone by, but at least we didn't lose this one.

 

[Giggsy13]

It's because of the eye test on the general play, the lack of control, the constantly being stretched and never a moment of calm. It's utter chaos! Our guys are busting a gut everywhere, isolated, under pressure constantly, no ability to get a game under our spell. Second best in everything. Wasteful up front, chasm in the middle, constantly up against it busting hernias just to stay in a game.

Whilst the players could do better in certain spots, it's a sign of the gameplan being ill suited to imposing ourselves on matches.

Spurs were poor, yet owned us. That's the point. I don't care about their position and home or away. It's not this game in isolation either. We're regularly turning in performances akin to my first paragraph. It's not becoming of a side that wants to be a top team.

I'm a firm believer you create your own good or bad luck. Our lack of steel and control eventually leads to moments where the opponent can find their luck. We were poor.

If I'm searching for positives I can only reference the odd moments whereby the press looked coordinated and we caused them to turn over possession with a punted ball. That was mainly only a few moments in the first half. The rest of the game was tail chasing. Lammens is fantastic. I've laid out points about why he is a breath of fresh air elsewhere before. I even complimented Bruno today. But the overwhelming sentiment today imo is absolutely and fully worthy of hard criticism.

Not sure what you were watching but we controlled the game and limited Spurs opportunities until the equalizer, which came out of nowhere. Our inability to kill off games is an issue, which is unfortunate given we’d be easily top 3 if it wasn’t for points dropped against Fulham, Forest and spurs.

The team is a work in progress but we’ve had one of the toughest schedules to date. The next 10 provide a very good opportunity to move up the table.

 

[Giggsy13]

The takes on Sesko here is borderline embarassing tbh

He received another harsh lesson yesterday on the pace of the league. He’s clearly not adapted, he’s too hesitant and slow, but the potential is there.

 

[Dominos]

Their goal came out of nowhere after a period of about 30 minutes where they didn't have s single shot on goal.

We spent nearly the entire 2nd half defending and giving the ball straight back to them when we won it.

I could have told you we'd concede eventually. Is it because they were creating loads of chances? No, Spurs are shite with a load of their best players injured like Maddison, Kulusevski, Kudus.

But it's very hard for us to defend our box for 45 minutes. Eventually a cross, a deflection, a mistake, a moment of magic will come unless you're a genuinely elite defensive side which we’re not.

As bad as Spurs were, they almost scored twice before from the Romero sitter and the volley shortly after which Lammens thankfully saved.

We've got 1 clean sheet all season. Every time we find ourselves in a bad spell in a game where we're under pressure we capitulate and concede, seen it against Fulham, Brentford, Burnley, Brighton, Spurs etc.

This is not a team that can weather a storm. We need more possession or pick off more goals on the counter attack to give us a cushion. We had 5 shots total all game, an xG of 0.63 - that's not good enough considering we regularly concede 2+ goals a game.

 

[Marcus]

I finally got to watch the full game. I don't think we were great, but it showed resilience to come back from a goal down with 10 men on the field. So that is a bright side. Lammens was majestic again (except for the corner he concede in the first minute). Lammens also shielded De Ligt from his marker and that certainly contributed to the equaliser.

 

[surf]

Amorim paid the price for using all his subs and then going down to 10 men. The Dorgu sub was totally unnecessary.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

We tend to play well in the beginning and score but now dont have Rashford, Garnacho, Elanga type player to hit on the counter.

 

[TheNewEra]

Amorim paid the price for using all his subs and then going down to 10 men. The Dorgu sub was totally unnecessary.

He didn't know that Sesko would get injured. Weird take, how many games happen where you use all your subs and then a player you grind on get injured? Id assume 1 in 500 games or so, it was just a bizarre incident.

Bringing on Sesko and going for crosses is a good move.

 

[Ayoba]

Considering that we had an entire week without a game, as opposed to spurs who had CL midweek, and the fact that their home from is terrible, it was a really poor performance. 1st half was ok/average but the 2nd half we didn't even turn up, sat back and invited so much pressure. It was so obvious the goal was coming, lammens had to make 2 great saves before they finally scored Our inability to keep clean sheets is concerning, as is our woeful away form.

The only positives were Mbeumo, Amad and I thought Dorgu had his best game for us.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Considering that we had an entire week without a game, as opposed to spurs who had CL midweek, and the fact that their home from is terrible, it was a really poor performance. 1st half was ok/average but the 2nd half we didn't even turn up, sat back and invited so much pressure. It was so obvious the goal was coming, lammens had to make 2 great saves before they finally scored Our inability to keep clean sheets is concerning, as is our woeful away form.

The only positives were Mbeumo, Amad and I thought Dorgu had his best game for us.

Agreed. Totally spot on.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I think we are the only side who has this ability to crumble in such a manner within mins. All it needs is a goal for another team and then hell breaks lose. This is such a poor trait this time has. In addition, we can never hold on to leads. Whether its the midfield or defenders we do not have it in us to close the game.

The match also shows that we need Maguire and Casemiro to be starting matches ATM, we are just more solid defensively with them, specially in the air. For all of Yoro's pace and ball playing ability, he is easily man handled and weak in the air. Whereas Casemiro brings the calmness and positioning which we never get with Ugarte.

Still mad about the draw yesterday. Spurs were soo bad and had Kudus out as well. Sesko had two great chances, should have scored atleast 1, then ended up going off and us conceding. You could not make it up.

 

[reelworld]

He received another harsh lesson yesterday on the pace of the league. He’s clearly not adapted, he’s too hesitant and slow, but the potential is there.

I agree but I think he needs a run of games to adapt to the league. This stop start games isnt helping him although I understand it from tactical point of view.
I think he'll come good, just need to be patient with him

 

[surf]

He didn't know that Sesko would get injured. Weird take, how many games happen where you use all your subs and then a player you grind on get injured? Id assume 1 in 500 games or so, it was just a bizarre incident.

Bringing on Sesko and going for crosses is a good move.

My comment was about bringing on Dalot for Dorgu, not about Sesko for Mazraoui. Dorgu was doing fine, one of the better players yesterday. It's a risk and a handicap when you have no more subs to replace a player that has to go off because of injury.

 

[Real Name]

Good game 1st half, unfortunately not so good 2nd. We retreated in the 2nd half and it looked like we decided to go too defensive. Although both of their goals was just bad luck, especially the 1st, we shouldt have give them the initiative. Luckily we scored the 2nd goal which all in all I think we deserved. Problem is even if we want to take the ball and control the game we simply cannot do that in an effective way with our midfield and given the fact we dont even have players on the bench who could do it. All in all, given the circumstances, a good result, although Spurs were there to be taken.

 

[BorisManUtd]

It could've been better, but also worse. We were one minute from 5th defeat in a row vs this Spurs side which would be horrible stat given that never happened even in their best and our worst days over last 10 years. Big, big goal from de Ligt given the context of going to International break.

Few weeks of National teams now playing and hopefully our players not featuring too much. After the break even without Europe there's plenty of games to come and no more breaks until March.

 

[Craig Ward]

I agree but I think he needs a run of games to adapt to the league. This stop start games isnt helping him although I understand it from tactical point of view.
I think he'll come good, just need to be patient with him

You dont get patience as a man utd striker > you need to hit the ground running. Sesko was one of the best strikers in Europe last season - using his pace and power to effect. You can't be timid or hesitant in this league - you have to be energetic and work and make quick decisions.

The rotation is a bit of an issue - but Sesko needs to show a hell of a lot more to warrant even sub appearances at this point

 

[Craig Ward]

Another pretty average display. Another game that we get away with a draw when it was well within our grasp to take all 3 points.

The difference between how we are now compared to last season is still a massive positive. Our workrate and mentality has gone up a level.

Can start to see the changes baring some fruit.

But we are still so easy to score against, despite some strong defensive work (De-Light in particular). Just lacking that total concentration and killer instinct.

 

[massey]

Amorim paid the price for using all his subs and then going down to 10 men. The Dorgu sub was totally unnecessary.

Yeah to much disruption at the back,actually thought he was having a decent game. You can't keep taking players off on a yellow scared they will get a red,I watched a game the other day a player was booked after 7 mins and lasted the whole match when does it end some games you will pick up quite a few bookings.

 

[reelworld]

You dont get patience as a man utd striker > you need to hit the ground running. Sesko was one of the best strikers in Europe last season - using his pace and power to effect. You can't be timid or hesitant in this league - you have to be energetic and work and make quick decisions.

The rotation is a bit of an issue - but Sesko needs to show a hell of a lot more to warrant even sub appearances at this point

United did have a history of giving players time acclimatise to the league. Evra, Vidic, de Gea. The reason I believe he can adapt is because he have all the physical tools, he just need to adapt mentally.
It is much more than I can say about Hojlund.

 

[Craig Ward]

United did have a history of giving players time acclimatise to the league. Evra, Vidic, de Gea. The reason I believe he can adapt is because he have all the physical tools, he just need to adapt mentally.
It is much more than I can say about Hojlund.

A lot easier to bed players in when your competing for league titles year after year.

The constant need to belittle Hojlund baffles me. Yes, he underperformed, yes he didn't live up to the price tag. He was never going to though - we over paid for potential then had the worst season we could have imagined. We basically left him upfront alone for a season and launched aimless long balls at him and cried when he didn't score.

At least Sesko has a chance as he has much better players behind him and we look capable of trying to play a bit this season. He needs to show more though - he was a powerhouse in Germany and looks timid here so far

 

[Maticmaker]

A lot easier to bed players in when your competing for league titles year after year.

The constant need to belittle Hojlund baffles me. Yes, he underperformed, yes he didn't live up to the price tag. He was never going to though - we over paid for potential then had the worst season we could have imagined. We basically left him upfront alone for a season and launched aimless long balls at him and cried when he didn't score.

At least Sesko has a chance as he has much better players behind him and we look capable of trying to play a bit this season. He needs to show more though - he was a powerhouse in Germany and looks timid here so far

Yes, Hojlund stepped up too quickly into a struggling team unfamilar with a centre forward role that he was not currently equipped for... however there is a footballer in there somewhere struggling to get out, hope he makes it, honest enough lad.

Sesko has not been able to adapt to the speed of life in the Premier league. In Germany he played without fear, now he looks scared to death at times, desperate not to fail. He's a big lad needs to use his size and up his speed, lets hope.

 

[justsomebloke]

Another pretty average display. Another game that we get away with a draw when it was well within our grasp to take all 3 points.

The difference between how we are now compared to last season is still a massive positive. Our workrate and mentality has gone up a level.

Can start to see the changes baring some fruit.

But we are still so easy to score against, despite some strong defensive work (De-Light in particular). Just lacking that total concentration and killer instinct.

Looks structural to me. With our offensive wingbacks, we're just very vulnerable on the flanks. We see it again and again - opponent easily gets the ball in behind, aren't put under strong pressure and can either turn passive defenders or put in good crosses or passes without being overly disturbed.