CL L Champions League Champions League Group F

Young Boys 2:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Tue, 14 September 2021

Keefy18

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Folks bashing this result like there wasn't legitimate circumstances that caused it and suggesting we should retain possession better are talking utter tripe.

After a red card, anyone expecting tikka taka type football retention is beyond deluded for god sake. It was always going to be backs to the wall type of stuff and try salvage the 1-0.

Ole's subs had feck all to do with the end result.

Far better managers and teams have managed worse results vs Swiss opposition, need an example?

Arguably the greatest football team on record, Barca 08... Treble winners... Drew 1-1 at home with a full strength team with Basel.

This wasn't a once off freak result either, cause the next home game they played at Nou Camp they then lost to Shakhtar.

Every single bad result brings on a torrent of Ole is clueless and tactically inept blah blah, yet some of the worlds best players have chose to play for him and routinely praise him and his abilities.

Give it a blinkering rest and lets see where we are come Christmas.
 

DomesticTadpole

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You probably need to calm down a bit. No one is defending it, everyone is unanimous in saying it was poor - but you can also take a step back, realise that there were circumstances that led to it and that even being a man down for 2/3 of the game we didn't concede many chances and probably would have come away with a point without an awful last minute brainfart. It's ok, these kind of games happen.
The one's saying it is a 'Bad day at the office'. If we eventually get out of this group then yes it was by a number of people involved, including the manager, even though he doesn't seem to be including himself. If we don't qualify then it is a major problem regarding how we handle the CL. Then it needs to be investigated why we are not learning any lessons. I am still of the opinion that putting rookie coaches, with a relatively rookie manager at this level of club was a mistake.
 

Godfather

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We better don't feck the opportunity up to really progress properly in the CL as long as Ronaldo is here. Not even Ole can let this happen so amateurish.
 

Rooney in Paris

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The one's saying it is a 'Bad day at the office'. If we eventually get out of this group then yes it was by a number of people involved, including the manager, even though he doesn't seem to be including himself. If we don't qualify then it is a major problem regarding how we handle the CL. Then it needs to be investigated why we are not learning any lessons.
I think we learned the lesson that it's better to play a game with 11 men rather than 10, and that passing the ball to the opposition attacker isn't great.

People can shit on Ole as much as they want (and seem to be the case), and his game management was far from the best yesterday... but it's ridiculous to pin this one on him, considering the circumstances of the game.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I think we learned the lesson that it's better to play a game with 11 men rather than 10, and that passing the ball to the opposition attacker isn't great.

People can shit on Ole as much as they want (and seem to be the case), and his game management was far from the best yesterday... but it's ridiculous to pin this one on him, considering the circumstances of the game.
Yes. I agree those were major howlers and cannot be accounted for, but to not create anything after the sending off was the team being in complete panic mode and that is up to the manager to make sure it doesn't happen. Where was the leadership and calmness.
 

André Dominguez

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with the positioning of the players here.

We were playing 5 at the back (wing backs), all players are exactly where they should be. Dalot to Lingards left side, Varane and Harry to his right and Shaw further away at left full.

The simple and obvious pass is a 3-5 yard pass to Varane, who in turn plays it into Pogba.
So... you're not having a problem that we have almost 6 to 7 players across the pitch width and little presence in front of our defence? In this situation you would only need 4 players to make "passive defending" line to make the zonal mark, and the extra player could do proactive defending. This is a it disapointing for me, as we invested so hard and we see our players just do the basics of defending, no proactive defending, just standing in their zone.

Forgeting about Jesse mistake, which the other players cant clearly be blamed.
 

Keefy18

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Those are clearly not the only two options.
More often then not when you've an hour of football to play down a man, its backs to the wall. Can't recall too many examples of it being different.

I mention the ball retention stuff as folks are banging on about it online every where.

Credit to YB, they smashed us and ran themselves into the ground. They very much played last night like it was their Champions league final.
 

#07

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We have almost 7 players in a single line and no one opening a passing lane, while everyone saying to Jesse to do the backpass. We needed only 4 in line at the back on this situation, and more in the middle of the pitch so the team could be able to react more agressively when loosing or recovering possession. These are clearly issues that must be addressed.

And the problem is we weren't looking much better with 11 vs 11 tbh
There were 30 seconds left and we had settled for a point. Its not a huge surprise that we had condensed the pitch. We were not, at that moment in time, looking to build more attacks.

If I told a group of 10 players: 'You just have to stop the opposition scoring for 30 seconds.' I wouldn't expect them to do much more than block off every avenue to goal and try and hold out.

In terms of Jesse, I still think its the wrong choice even if some of his teammates encouraged it. If he boots it hard towards the opposition corner flag it'd take 30 seconds just to retrieve it and get the ball back up field.
 

Hughes35

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How can people blame Ole for last night? We battered them until AWB did a bad tackle.

We then defended really really well for an hour until Lingard did what Lingard does.
 

Keefy18

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So... you're not having a problem that we have almost 6 to 7 players across the pitch width and little presence in front of our defence? In this situation you would only need 4 players to make "passive defending" line to make the zonal mark, and the extra player could do proactive defending. This is a it disapointing for me, as we invested so hard and we see our players just do the basics of defending, no proactive defending, just standing in their zone.

Forgeting about Jesse mistake, which the other players cant clearly be blamed.
Your back line is supposed to be straight for a start.

But you suggest the back line is spread out across the width of the pitch, it isn't.

As you can see from your screen shot below, from the far touchline we've our back 5 paying very closely together and the biggest gap is actually behind Shaw, at a rough estimate I'd say its about 25-30 yards open space behind Shaw, considering he is only slightly past the centre of the D (edge of box). That is not the width of the pitch at all.

Our back 5 is supposed to stay close together as is proven in your screen shot so they can communicate for offsides and it doesn't leave gaps for players to run into behind. Sadly the offside is negated due to the moment of idiocy from Lingard and his woeful pass which cost us.

Apart from Jesse misjudgement, are we that mediocre to react as team on loosing and recovering possession when under pressure? Almost all players in a single line across the pitch? Is this tik tak toe football?
 

Dosse

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Every manager has their fair share of bad results, no one is arguing against that. And we went on to with the CL btw!

What we saw yesterday was a total lack of tactical knowledge that cost us. You could argue that we lose due to lingards mistake, but we were clueless and lucky up to that point. Just like we got lucky against wolves. And this isn't a one off, Villareal tactically outwitted us, all the semi final losses. The CL defeats last season against psg, Istanbul and Leipzig. This is a pattern that we see time and time again under Ole! When it really matters, he cannot deliver, or rather, doesn't know how to deliver.

Do you honestly believe we will finish ahead of the likes of Tuchel, Klopp, Guardiola? I'm not saying he's a bad manager, you cannot be bad and finish 2nd in the PL. But he's not an elite manager and I struggle to see us winning anything with him in charge.
What we saw yesterday was a red card that ost us the game, nothing else.
 

André Dominguez

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Your back line is supposed to be straight for a start.

But you suggest the back line is spread out across the width of the pitch, it isn't.

As you can see from your screen shot below, from the far touchline we've our back 5 paying very closely together and the biggest gap is actually behind Shaw, at a rough estimate I'd say its about 25-30 yards open space behind Shaw, considering he is only slightly past the centre of the D (edge of box). That is not the width of the pitch at all.

Our back 5 is supposed to stay close together as is proven in your screen shot so they can communicate for offsides and it doesn't leave gaps for players to run into behind. Sadly the offside is negated due to the moment of idiocy from Lingard and his woeful pass which cost us.
We needed more bodies at the midfield, they created the 1-1 goal by playing the ball from the midfield almost unchallenged. I understand that players are following grassroots teachings when the manager tells you it's 5 at the back, but it's up to the technical team also work strategy and dont blindly follow the system.
If you look at Naggelsman or whatever his name is written, he ahs a system, but he also has a set of rules (which of course are drilled) that there are a few players doing the zonal line man oriented, while others will be more ball oriented.

I know we were 1 unit down, but our defending was too basic for my taste, not talking about only the goal. Several plays from YB where our team is so passive on defense that makes me cringe.

Probably overreacted a bit, but I still think we need to drill our team better with the talent we have at our disposal.
 

Magical Manchester United

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Folks bashing this result like there wasn't legitimate circumstances that caused it and suggesting we should retain possession better are talking utter tripe.

After a red card, anyone expecting tikka taka type football retention is beyond deluded for god sake. It was always going to be backs to the wall type of stuff and try salvage the 1-0.

Ole's subs had feck all to do with the end result.

Far better managers and teams have managed worse results vs Swiss opposition, need an example?

Arguably the greatest football team on record, Barca 08... Treble winners... Drew 1-1 at home with a full strength team with Basel.

This wasn't a once off freak result either, cause the next home game they played at Nou Camp they then lost to Shakhtar.

Every single bad result brings on a torrent of Ole is clueless and tactically inept blah blah, yet some of the worlds best players have chose to play for him and routinely praise him and his abilities.

Give it a blinkering rest and lets see where we are come Christmas.
I think the issue is less the result but the way it happened. The fact we didn't have a single shot after the red card. Losing with 10 men is no disgrace but we should be creating chances. In those Barca defeats you refer to I'd imagine they still had plenty of attempts and were the dominant team.
 

largelyworried

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More often then not when you've an hour of football to play down a man, its backs to the wall. Can't recall too many examples of it being different.

I mention the ball retention stuff as folks are banging on about it online every where.

Credit to YB, they smashed us and ran themselves into the ground. They very much played last night like it was their Champions league final.
I can't really say what you've been watching, but if a top team goes down to 10 men with a full hour to go, I would expect to see the following

* Spells of possession in midfield to relieve the pressure
* Pushing up the back line when we clear the ball
* Occasional spells of probing the opposition penalty area
* The odd two man counter attack
* Making the most of set pieces

I don't think we had any of the above. If there's 10 minutes to go and you're 1-0 up, ok, psychologically its hard to avoid just defending the box. But you can't invite a team on to you for an entire half with a man down and be surprised when it doesn't work out.
 

Keefy18

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I think the issue is less the result but the way it happened. The fact we didn't have a single shot after the red card. Losing with 10 men is no disgrace but we should be creating chances. In those Barca defeats you refer to I'd imagine they still had plenty of attempts and were the dominant team.
The way it happened was a crap first touch from AWB and silly challenge and poor pass from Jesse.

Up to 1-0 we were cruising. For the majority of the match we kept them to long range pops, De Gea wasn't worked much at all up to their equalizer. They had a long range effort which was going over anyway.

Looking at different match reports and stats, they registered their first shot on target that De Gea had to save at 43 mins.

The next 3 (total of 4 shots on target), came in the 2nd half...two of them goals.

The rest was speculative attempts from distance.

As for the Barca example, they were full strength... a full 11 players. We didn't have that. Yet they still failed to beat Basel at home with Messi, Xavi and Iniest and followed it up with a home loss.

Isn't that worse?
 

Keefy18

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Such an intelligent reply, standard of the cafe these days.

Oles fault is it for AWB's piss poor first touch and tackle? Nope.
Oles fault for Jesse's poor pass? Nope.

I can't really say what you've been watching, but if a top team goes down to 10 men with a full hour to go, I would expect to see the following

* Spells of possession in midfield to relieve the pressure
* Pushing up the back line when we clear the ball
* Occasional spells of probing the opposition penalty area
* The odd two man counter attack
* Making the most of set pieces

I don't think we had any of the above. If there's 10 minutes to go and you're 1-0 up, ok, psychologically its hard to avoid just defending the box. But you can't invite a team on to you for an entire half with a man down and be surprised when it doesn't work out.
You're living in a fantasy world man, again... give me valid examples where a team playing for an hour down a man retain possession and "probing the opposition penalty area". Watching football the guts of 40 years and I'm struggling to think of a team down a player, that can dictate midfield for periods for an hour.

Certainly make the most of set pieces when you can, but the reality was we didn't even manage to do that because of YB's high press and work rate, as mentioned by plenty of pundits and myself they played last night like it was their Champions league final. Credit to them.
 

largelyworried

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Such an intelligent reply, standard of the cafe these days.

Oles fault is it for AWB's piss poor first touch and tackle? Nope.
Oles fault for Jesse's poor pass? Nope.



You're living in a fantasy world man, again... give me valid examples where a team playing for an hour down a man retain possession and "probing the opposition penalty area". Watching football the guts of 40 years and I'm struggling to think of a team down a player, that can dictate midfield for periods for an hour.

Certainly make the most of set pieces when you can, but the reality was we didn't even manage to do that because of YB's high press and work rate, as mentioned by plenty of pundits and myself they played last night like it was their Champions league final. Credit to them.
Chelsea vs Liverpool a few weeks back. Chelsea did every one of those things bar the last one.
 

Sean_RedDevil

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Such an intelligent reply, standard of the cafe these days.

Oles fault is it for AWB's piss poor first touch and tackle? Nope.
Oles fault for Jesse's poor pass? Nope.
Solskjaer bought Wan-Bissaka..."piss poor first touch" then why has he bought him or why hasn't he improved him?

Lingard is a average player......that he came on in this match was Solskjaer's fault.
 

RedIan

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I think we went into this game to lightly, disrespected Young boys ability and passion, everyone thought they would be a push over. That stems from the manager and radiates down through the team who think they only have to turn up to win and just goo through the motions.. A very Harsh lesson.

The substitutions were baffling. We fight all season to make champions league and then in the first Game dont play and/or take of our best players.. again thinking, hey its only YB,S.

Get into a good lead and then rest players BUT NOT AT 1-0.
Ok AWB sending off didnt help but it was mismanaged. we should have still had some control on the game.

Naive management, foolish, inexperienced AND LAZY. Fergie would have hammered home the message - do your job, do not underestimate, this is a big big game.
 

Keefy18

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Chelsea vs Liverpool a few weeks back. Chelsea did every one of those things bar the last one.
This game? Where Liverpool dominated them? https://www.flashscore.com/match/M3OfxSW9/#match-summary/match-statistics/0

24 Shots with 7 on target and their keeper was arguably MOTM with 6 saves.

31% Possession with a single shot on target 2nd half.

Yet they apparently addressed the issues you raised.

Our 2nd half possession last night was 35%, which bettered your Chelsea example.

Maybe I've actually a point?

Solskjaer bought Wan-Bissaka..."piss poor first touch" then why has he bought him or why hasn't he improved him?

Lingard is a average player......that he came on in this match was Solskjaer's fault.
The Solskjaer fans would do everything for him.
Standard pathetic Ole out rhetoric really which can be found after every result that doesn't go their way.

But to address your point on AWB, superb first season and solid second season. Still arguably the best defensive right fullback in the league... but hasn't improved? Good one!

Lingard is indeed not a quality player and absolutely it was his fault for the 2nd goal, it was a poor decision to make and poorer pass.

You know what they say, s*it happens.

A random piss poor pass is not the fault of a manager, it could happen to any player at any time.

For the most part YB were kept to long range hopeful efforts without De Gea barely worked. But apparently that is a poor set up to football geniuses like yourselves.
 
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Giggsyking

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I didnt make anything up, I didnt mention anything about sitting back, or possession, I said we had results like that under SAF, we did, all of the ones I mentioned were losses against teams we should have beaten. Climb off your high horse, put your rattle away and have a rusk.
You did not say results. Had you said results, I would not react.
 

Sean_RedDevil

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Standard pathetic Ole out rhetoric really which can be found after every result that doesn't go their way.

But to address your point on AWB, superb first season and solid second season. Still arguably the best defensive right fullback in the league... but hasn't improved? Good one!

Lingard is indeed not a quality player and absolutely it was his fault for the 2nd goal, it was a poor decision to make and poorer pass.

You know what they say, s*it happens.

A random piss poor pass is not the fault of a manager, it could happen to any player at any time.

For the most part YB were kept to long range hopeful efforts without De Gea barely worked. But apparently that is a poor set up to football geniuses like yourselves.
You will cry so much when he will be sacked soon :D
 

largelyworried

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This game? Where Liverpool dominated them? https://www.flashscore.com/match/M3OfxSW9/#match-summary/match-statistics/0

24 Shots with 7 on target and their keeper was arguably MOTM with 6 saves.

30% Possession with a single shot on target 2nd half.

Yet they apparently addressed the issues you raised.

Our 2nd half possession last night was 35%, which bettered your Chelsea example.

Maybe I've actually a point?
Let me get this straight, are you suggesting that our performance was better than Chelsea's?
 

Giggsyking

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Would the SAF results be worse then? If you applied common sense here (I know, mind boggling request).

There was no red card in those games against Basel or Maccabi. Yet we lost 2-1 and 3-0 respectively.
VS
We played 60 mins of football on an astro turf pitch with a man down. They were absolutely buoyed and out for blood against us once the red happened.
Which is worse?
I'd suggest SAF results!
If you look at the results of Sir Alex in 25 years managing, you can say it was a freak result (not performance). While Ole in his past 3 years, has managed to show similar results + garbage performance every other week. Our 5 matches into the season we were shit in 3 of them. That is not a freak result, that is just the logical outcome of our shitty performance.
 

Keefy18

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You will cry so much when he will be sacked soon :D
Quite the supporter you are hey?

Arguably the best shape we've been in since Fergie as a club and posting sentiments like this. Clown is the only word that comes to mind really.

Let me get this straight, are you suggesting that our performance was better than Chelsea's?
Yeah I think it was tbh, the more I think about it and look back at the Liverpool - Chelsea game you've given as an example.

Hell, even prior to going down a man Liverpool were dominating them. Elliot and Henderson both had decent chances before Chelsea took the lead against the run of play.

If you want to skip to 1:45 in the video it shows Kovacic shot, which was registered in the 85th min!!

Aside from that it was largely one way traffic, similar to last night.

Honestly don't recall seeing examples of ball retention and periods of controlling play like you suggested, nor did they effectively use set pieces. They registered a single corner kick 2nd half. We had none.

Chelsea and ourselves both had 8 free kicks 2nd half, neither side used them effectively obviously.

 

Offside

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Some of you are having a laugh if you think that was a penalty on Ronaldo. Way too soft. I think he dived slightly as the defender was the last man so it would have been 10 v 10. He should have done it outside the box as there was not enough for a penalty and that useless ref would probably have sent him off.
 

largelyworried

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Quite the supporter you are hey?

Arguably the best shape we've been in since Fergie as a club and posting sentiments like this. Clown is the only word that comes to mind really.



Yeah I think it was tbh, the more I think about it and look back at the Liverpool - Chelsea game you've given as an example.

Hell, even prior to going down a man Liverpool were dominating them. Elliot and Henderson both had decent chances before Chelsea took the lead against the run of play.

If you want to skip to 1:45 in the video it shows Kovacic shot, which was registered in the 85th min!!

Aside from that it was largely one way traffic, similar to last night.

Honestly don't recall seeing examples of ball retention and periods of controlling play like you suggested, nor did they effectively use set pieces. They registered a single corner kick 2nd half. We had none.

Chelsea and ourselves both had 8 free kicks 2nd half, neither side used them effectively obviously.

Oh mate. The absurd positions people contort into to try and avoid being wrong online.

They were playing Liverpool. We were playing some Swiss outfit. They drew, we lost. But sure, no difference...
 

Maticmaker

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Once again our plan B (actually not sure there is a plan A) to respond to an emergency i.e. going down to 10 men, falls at the first encounter with the enemy.

OK, two pieces of bad luck/bad play cost us dear in the end, but how we responded to AWB dismissal was woeful; why take off Sancho, take off Bruno or Pogba if your plan B was to fall back and defend, because you need some pressure at the other end, to relieve the press.
Sancho and CR would provide that maybe even Sancho dropping into a wing back role to help out the defence. Whoever was left in Pogba or Bruno, would adopt the 'Quarterback' role.

This error was compounded when they equalized, Ole took off CR, OK maybe some way it makes some sense in that he's not going to 'die in the trenches' and as the game wore on he would get more tired; but Matic should have been on much earlier and Lingard, despite his goal on Saturday, is not ready yet for an up to your neck in 'muck and bullets' encounter. His wayward soft back pass had all the hallmarks of 'shell-shock.'
 

Keefy18

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If you look at the results of Sir Alex in 25 years managing, you can say it was a freak result (not performance). While Ole in his past 3 years, has managed to show similar results + garbage performance every other week. Our 5 matches into the season we were shit in 3 of them. That is not a freak result, that is just the logical outcome of our shitty performance.
Wow, just wow!

Bruno Joint top scorer with 4 goals.
Pogba with just 7 assists in 4.

Smashed Leeds and Newcastle scoring 9.

Good god almighty, its true what they say... you can't reason with stupid... I think I'll have to put you on block, you'd give an aspirin a migraine for god sake.
 

OleTheGreat

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Everything said and done I think it is getting from bad to worse when we are put in a situation. Ole has only seen his players get a red on 2 occasions and on both occasions we have been utterly humiliated. I know that AWB committed a stupid stupid mistake and it is inexcusable but the way we played the game after that and how Ole went from subbing CR7 for Lingard to completely changing the team to a 2 line defense was completely cowardly. In the end, he brought Martial for Fred to confuse everyone. What a load of cwap! There was no plan and we struggled like crazy. I really hope this is a one-off game because if this continues it will become really tough to keep Ole around. I trust the process and I know what he's doing is an exceptional job but there comes a time when you ponder if we are really doing the basics right because regardless of the formation and the structure on the field, our players do not get a string of passes together in a fast paced game. Young boys did a great job and deserved that. JLingz come on!
 

Giggsyking

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Wow, just wow!

Bruno Joint top scorer with 4 goals.
Pogba with just 7 assists in 4.

Smashed Leeds and Newcastle scoring 9.

Good god almighty, its true what they say... you can't reason with stupid... I think I'll have to put you on block, you'd give an aspirin a migraine for god sake.
Do you even read the post. 3 of 5 matches we were shit, do you think we were good against Wolves, Southampton and YB? If you think so, then it is difficult to convince you otherwise.
 

Keefy18

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Oh mate. The absurd positions people contort into to try and avoid being wrong online.

They were playing Liverpool. We were playing some Swiss outfit. They drew, we lost. But sure, no difference...
I think you'll find its yourself doing the contorting. You gave the example, I merely proved your posting tripe.

I've shown you the match data from your example vs last night and now its sentiments about contorting and trying to avoid being wrong?

Don't blame me for your poor example, pick a better example and then you might well have a point.
 

Skåre Willoch

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This loss is more on Jesse than on Ole. That said, it was a horrible game, with some horrible decisions, by both.

Do better!
 

Player Ratings

4.9 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 280 ratings.

Score Predictions

265,4,3
  • Man Utd win
  • Young Boys win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 29% Young Boys 0:3 Man Utd
  • 22% Young Boys 0:2 Man Utd
  • 13% Young Boys 1:3 Man Utd
  • 11% Young Boys 0:4 Man Utd
  • 9% Young Boys 1:2 Man Utd
  • 8% Young Boys 0:5 Man Utd
  • 3% Young Boys 1:4 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 1:5 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 0:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 2:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 1:1 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 0:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 3:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 5:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 2:4 Man Utd
Compiled from 272 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Young Boys
  2. Man Utd
Possession
54% 46%
Shots
19 2
Shots on Target
5 2
Corners
8 1
Fouls
14 3