No white text, he wouldn't?People who think Varane would get in our team ahead of Maguire
Potential CB Options
- Thread starter croadyman
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He's crap. Not even good on the ball like Ramos. I'd love to see a Prem team sign him for big money as long as it's not us.
I would only take proven top class defender. Ramos or Varane for example. And that is it. Unless we can't get them, i am perfectly happy with our defenders.
The suggestion that our defence is 'shaky' or 'weak' is a myth. There's a distinct difference between poor form and poor ability. 2-3 of our defenders were in poor form at the start of the season but are back to their best.
3 clean sheets on the bounce, 3 goals conceded in our last 6 games, and lets not forget - the most clean sheets across the whole of European football last season.
3 clean sheets on the bounce, 3 goals conceded in our last 6 games, and lets not forget - the most clean sheets across the whole of European football last season.
Exactly this. Maguire is nailed starter. I don't rate him much but he is here, he is captain and is payed 80mil. So he will play every game and will not be benched or sold. And tbh, he is playing well lately despite all his problems with pace and mobility.
Lindelof and Bailly are good defenders. Not world class but they are very good defenders. So i don't see a reason why we should spend 40-50 mil on some defender who is maybe or maybe not, better than what we have.
Top class defender is a different thing. But they cost fortune and there are not many of them out there.
Before spending anymore money on CB we should actually try to add Defensive Midfielder and try to create a balanced midfield and see how it goes .
Pretty sure that Whitwell quashed this rumour very quickly last week
Ben White looks to be a very impressive young player, and definitely fits the profile of what Solskjaer is trying to build.
I'd be surprised if he isn't very high up on Ole's list of targets.
I been waiting to hear his name by a few more people because I've not got to watch him this season compared to last.
The good thing about him is his ball playing ability and his general technique on the ball. He can dribble out of a press, he can make a long distance accurate pass - it makes him useful both as a CB & CDM.
I'm sure he's already been mentioned but the one we should go for is Jules Kounde - I think he'll be the best CB in the world within the next 5 years.
His positioning is exemplary, possesses great pace and is exceptional in the air despite being only 5'10. The best defenders rarely go to ground and he is the perfect example of this. For all the talk of Upamecano he is the CB I'd spend 60m+ on.
His positioning is exemplary, possesses great pace and is exceptional in the air despite being only 5'10. The best defenders rarely go to ground and he is the perfect example of this. For all the talk of Upamecano he is the CB I'd spend 60m+ on.
What a fecking mess of a post. To think you spent such a long time writing it as well.Not going to even get into the Ramos, early career and plyometrics, Do some research on them and then realise how CB's improve in those areas probably one of the easiest parts to improve in a defender - But the point was even back then they had Ramos RB, and Fabio Cannavaro all 5ft 9 of him at CB, they still won their league. We'll be here all day this is not what the point is and we're going off-topic.
Most of the matches I mentioned were matches I was in attendance and could see how bad he was live and in person - and not with the influence of a commentator and pundit, so now when I watch from home I see his best performances are average and his normal ones are well...(
Listen he's average at best that's all there is to it, sorry if it hurts your feelings but it's true (you can bring up peoples VDV personal life doesn't hold much water in the context of this conversation, it's actually quite feminine taking an argument everywhere just to win it btw), Maguire's a complete hype job I mean you said he was imperious he barely had anything to do in the game, Liverpool's front three were practically impotent and have been for a while he did everything I would expect a CB to do he did nothing extraordinary. If you think that was an imperious performance my goodness Bailly must've been LEGENDARY the previous 5 games. P.S Lindeloff had a better game yesterday and I wouldn't call it "Imperious".
You know what I remember a story Rio told about Roy Keane when he signed for Utd he did the average things a CB does and passed a ball to Gary Neville and Roy Keane started tearing him a new one telling him that he isn't at West Ham this is Man Utd we expect more here. Maguire does average things and then he gets a hype job package as "imperious".
He is DEFINITELY not better on the ball than Bailly or Axel (plays DM, RB, LB distributing and carrying the ball well), and tbh even Lindeloff passing wise (not dribbling) Maguire's passing almost led to a goal for Liverpool during a Goal Kick.
Point is to make Maguire look good we have to play with two defensive screens as runners who are limited in what they can do (especially Scott), clogging up the half spaces to make sure they can't get isolated one on one or creative midfielders can't expose them with through passes etc. If we play two competent CB's who can defend MULTIPLE situations, not just AERIAL ones (even though we still concede from set-pieces SMH) - we would actually start to win midfield battles "expansively" against top teams. Form and ability-wise I would put Bruno, Pogba and Fred against almost any midfield if they had the license to try and control a game - but we can't currently because "precious" at the back there will be exposed if we do. Since you think it's personnel issue (which is actually proving my point if you think about it) if we're to say it's the personnel the issue I'd wager the very man you're defending IS the culprit.
Bailly is by far the superior CB, and if we want to become serious about having expansive play being more competitive in European competitions we have to start looking at the reasons we cannot play one DM. Your personnel comparison made me chuckle. Liverpool played Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho in their defensive Pivot, and Shaqiri and Winaldum in their midfield and you say personnel!? Jesus weeps you sipped the cool-aid, my goodness open your eye's pal and see what's happening.
E.g. Since it was personnel as you said (can't believe you said that) let's put every one of those mentioned from the game (Fred, Pogba, Bruno, Lindeloff, Scott, Maguire) on the Transfer Market outside of England if it's personnel as you say (
But to this thread, a fit and inform partnership of Bailly and Axel (academy raised!) would rival Upermancano and Konate IMO. They have great ability on the ball, can pass - we could go single pivot in midfield and they would comfortably defend half-spaces, are agile and quick enough to chase through balls from the half-space and off-shoulder runners, defend against quick and tricky forwards without whinging at full-backs for protection all the time (freeing them up to attack), would also free up our midfield to actually attack and play. I'd take that over "OVERSTATED" headers any day.
The answer to our CB issue is right here at home in Axel, get him a run of games and watch us improve.
Yikes, has he fallen off or something because whilst I haven't seen him every game this season he still seems decent to me
A proper CDM > CB.
Cannavaro is a Ballon D`or winning CB he`s an exception not the norm there`s very few CBs his size in modern football who would succeed in this era and its ironic how you talk about short CBs being good "in recent times" yet you`ve gone back over 10 years to use a case in point that would likely not work now unless the guy in discussion is spectacular like Cannavaro.Not going to even get into the Ramos, early career and plyometrics, Do some research on them and then realise how CB's improve in those areas probably one of the easiest parts to improve in a defender - But the point was even back then they had Ramos RB, and Fabio Cannavaro all 5ft 9 of him at CB, they still won their league. We'll be here all day this is not what the point is and we're going off-topic.
Most of the matches I mentioned were matches I was in attendance and could see how bad he was live and in person - and not with the influence of a commentator and pundit, so now when I watch from home I see his best performances are average and his normal ones are well...(
Listen he's average at best that's all there is to it, sorry if it hurts your feelings but it's true (you can bring up peoples VDV personal life doesn't hold much water in the context of this conversation, it's actually quite feminine taking an argument everywhere just to win it btw), Maguire's a complete hype job I mean you said he was imperious he barely had anything to do in the game, Liverpool's front three were practically impotent and have been for a while he did everything I would expect a CB to do he did nothing extraordinary. If you think that was an imperious performance my goodness Bailly must've been LEGENDARY the previous 5 games. P.S Lindeloff had a better game yesterday and I wouldn't call it "Imperious".
You know what I remember a story Rio told about Roy Keane when he signed for Utd he did the average things a CB does and passed a ball to Gary Neville and Roy Keane started tearing him a new one telling him that he isn't at West Ham this is Man Utd we expect more here. Maguire does average things and then he gets a hype job package as "imperious".
He is DEFINITELY not better on the ball than Bailly or Axel (plays DM, RB, LB distributing and carrying the ball well), and tbh even Lindeloff passing wise (not dribbling) Maguire's passing almost led to a goal for Liverpool during a Goal Kick.
Point is to make Maguire look good we have to play with two defensive screens as runners who are limited in what they can do (especially Scott), clogging up the half spaces to make sure they can't get isolated one on one or creative midfielders can't expose them with through passes etc. If we play two competent CB's who can defend MULTIPLE situations, not just AERIAL ones (even though we still concede from set-pieces SMH) - we would actually start to win midfield battles "expansively" against top teams. Form and ability-wise I would put Bruno, Pogba and Fred against almost any midfield if they had the license to try and control a game - but we can't currently because "precious" at the back there will be exposed if we do. Since you think it's personnel issue (which is actually proving my point if you think about it) if we're to say it's the personnel the issue I'd wager the very man you're defending IS the culprit.
Bailly is by far the superior CB, and if we want to become serious about having expansive play being more competitive in European competitions we have to start looking at the reasons we cannot play one DM. Your personnel comparison made me chuckle. Liverpool played Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho in their defensive Pivot, and Shaqiri and Winaldum in their midfield and you say personnel!? Jesus weeps you sipped the cool-aid, my goodness open your eye's pal and see what's happening.
E.g. Since it was personnel as you said (can't believe you said that
But to this thread, a fit and inform partnership of Bailly and Axel (academy raised!) would rival Upermancano and Konate IMO. They have great ability on the ball, can pass - we could go single pivot in midfield and they would comfortably defend half-spaces, are agile and quick enough to chase through balls from the half-space and off-shoulder runners, defend against quick and tricky forwards without whinging at full-backs for protection all the time (freeing them up to attack), would also free up our midfield to actually attack and play. I'd take that over "OVERSTATED" headers any day.
The answer to our CB issue is right here at home in Axel, get him a run of games and watch us improve.
I literally mentioned earlier Bailly is our best all rounded CB I never disputed that his qualities compliment Maguire just as Maguire`s qualities compliment his and have you also not agreed towards the end how crucial a DM will be? A competent DM with Bailly and Maguire at the back and we`d never have as much complaints about our backline as much as you think
I`m not emotional this is simply an educated discussion on contrasting views the reason. VDV calls Harry Kane shit when he`s arguably the best ST in the league but suddenly his view on Maguire holds weight just because it suits your agenda? He`s not that intelligent mate sorry to tell you that and you still have his personal domestic issues which simply doesn`t make him a guy you can take seriously just like Giggs who shagged his brother`s wife and also a domestic abuser if you`re the type that can tolerate such low life degenerates fine but I`m not and its far from "emotional" and the only reason in your eyes he did something "You`d expect from any CB" is because its Maguire if Axel put in such a performance you`d be spreading his name all over the CAF like he`s the next Rio. It was a top class performance whatever way you look at it and despite LFC`s woes they`re still the reigning champions and their attackers are still one of the best in the league if not the world whom many top CBs would struggle against on another day. If you expect Maguire to be fast, good on the ball like KDB, have agility at the level of Vidic, have a telepathic reading of the game and so on at the same time then you`ll be disappointed at almost every CB who ever plays for us there`s very very very few CBs out there with all perfect attributes at once 90% of them come with flaws which need a PARTNER as well as protection from midfield to cover for them Maguire is no different and he`s still a very good CB regardless
Maguire`s passing statistics among CBs is one of the very best in the league go and check it yourself yeah he did make that mistake yesterday(which again any other top CB would) but he was still very good
Our conceding from set pieces is a coaching issue due to our insistence on zonal marking which is not a very effective way of defending set pieces anymore it actually leaves Maguire with too much work to do as everyone else is shit aerially it`s not particularly his fault and once again he CAN defend in multiple situations(admittedly has weaknesses in a few areas but something that can be easily covered with Bailly and a better DM). You could put Pogba, Bruno and Fred or Scott or Matic even with Van Dijk at the back and we`d STILL have problems. It took Liverpool getting Fabinho next to Henderson for their defence to gear up a level before they had Emre Can and even with an in form VVD they were still having issues in midfield so once again blaming "precious" is a bit silly all factors considered
Are you actually suggesting our deeper midfield personnel of Fred, McTominay and Matic are anywhere close to Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho?(Shaqiri and Wijnaldum dont count they play more as 10s/8s) All 3 of whom are not just title winners at the highest level but MILES and I mean MILES MILES MILES more gifted on the ball than any of the 3 and MUCH better readers of the game and MILES better at dictating games with their ability to pick passes as well as provide a defensive shield to their backline. They pick more forward passes in one game(of any range long or short and both are effective) than any of Fred/Scott/Matic do in 2/3games. One of them in place of Scott/Matic/Fred and we go up a level if not two.
You`d be surprised with this transfer market City went as high as 70m for that very same Magurie you laugh at and since he`s joined us he`s played the most minutes of ANY footballer in the world, likely to captain us to two back to back solid top 4 finishes as well as a season when our defence was one of the best in Europe and in a season Utd could still win a trophy on top of being a full regular international in his prime and English(which always has an added tax) we`d still easily get 40-50m for him at least only McTominay would fetch a similar fee due to his age the rest we`d be lucky to get 20-30m but it doesnt matter as those at Utd hold HM to high regard and will continue to do so bar a catastrophic drop in form
Anyway in the God forbid event Maguire gets a long lay off I hope we try the Axel/Bailly duo and see how right/wrong you are then we can come back here and discuss it but my point still stands that chances are its more likely to fail than succeed
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As simple as this.
I've never seen a good game from him myself and I've seen him plenty. Can't comment on his form this season but they've conceded 15 goals in 18 league games which is not much less trash than Barca. Atletico have 6 for comparison...
If you hang out long enough on football forums, eventually you would see everything posted that you never thought was possible
I agree, but it depends how things develop.
Lindelof he back problems, what if that continues or get worse.
Bailly has played well but we don’t know how long it will last or if he can play well against the best teams. And can he stay fit? Not a horse I would bet money on.
Tuanzebe has a long way to go before he is at the level of the 3 other CBs. We can hope he will develop but it is really taking a chance.
We need a CB, we should just prioritise a CDM.
If the three we have now continue to stay fit I agree but last season we played the Lindelof and Maguire all the time, through pain and injuries and fatigue.
I hear you brother
I'd be happy with any of our CB options playing if we had a proper CDM.
Get Juve to throw in Demiral as part of Pogba deal In the summer. He’s being wasted there and would be great in the premier league in my opinion.
I believe Solskjaer will buy a CB with particular attributes because he wants to adopt a more attack minded approach. Our defense is good if we adopt a more reactive approach where we we defend with 6 and attack with 4. But if you try and make sense of what Ole has said in interviews and even saw his Molde team, it's easy to see what he's working towards IMO. There's a big difference between what is expected of a CB in our current strategy where we defend in munbers compared to defending 1v1 as the last line with space in behind.
Solskjaer believe it or not is a very attack minded manager and displayed his attacking intent for several years at Molde. But he's not stupid and knows the squad at his disposal currently isn't suited to playing a attacking brand of football against the big teams. So imo he will try and sign a CB and DM that will give him that option of sacrificing defensive stability for goals.
Solskjaer believe it or not is a very attack minded manager and displayed his attacking intent for several years at Molde. But he's not stupid and knows the squad at his disposal currently isn't suited to playing a attacking brand of football against the big teams. So imo he will try and sign a CB and DM that will give him that option of sacrificing defensive stability for goals.
Having the ability to play both positions is flexibility that will impress Ole but can't help thinking we really need to buy a specialist top class CB & CDM but like always the biggest question is have we got the budget to buy both in one window
What has Ole particularly said in interviews that makes you see what he is trying to work towards in regards to a CB
"I want to play a high line like Jurgen and press high"
"Wan Bissaka has to improve because a Man Utd fullback must contribute in attack and score goals and get assists"
And having watched his Molde team play several times, the above quotes make a lot of sense because he implemented a very aggressive high press during his time at the club where he pushed the fullbacks high and had his two CBs as the last line numerous times. So from my observation of what I saw off Molde under Solskjaer, was that he wanted to overwhelm the opposition by flooding the last third with 7 attacking players which helped cause overloads and he also had the team well drilled in counter pressing in the eventuality a turn over is forced by the opposition to thwart the counter which would then expose the defensive players. But the key caveat to take from his coaching style was that he wants to sacrifice defensive stability for goals which I believe we'll see more of next season, but instead of defending in numbers we'll have to attack in numbers. But for that to happen he will have to identify the correct DM and correct CB who will then give him the option to do that.
It's been reported several times now by the more reliable media sources that Solskjaer wants a CB who can play 1v1 when the fullbacks are caught up field. Which again makes a lot of sense because that aligns with Solskjaer's footballing principles which is to play high pressure football as I call it.
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Thanks for the information and personally think AWB would also definitely benefit from some competition in that RB spot, in regards to a CB & CDM quite frankly I have no idea who Ole sees as the right players to implement his plan but certainly intrigued to find out whenever we eventually sign them which hopefully will be this summer.
I personally think a cheap left footed CB will be signed to replace Rojo and we'll also sign one that fits the profile I mentioned via the tweet in my previous post.
Anyone that you have in mind for a cheap left footed option then
I don't have anyone in mind but wouldn't be surprised if we end up signing someone like Facundo Medina from Lens.
Well if we get him for rotation but also bring in an experienced option to partner Maguire I'm happy, however I wouldn't want this to be at the cost of addressing our CDM issue or some RB cover for AWB as well
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So Ole is looking for a CB that is strong in 1-on-1, good in counter-attack and long ball. Just like every football manager on the planet.
Not quite what I wrote and shared.
My wider point summed up in one quick and succinct manner, s brilliant.
I honestly believe if, given the defence, Fred, Pogba, Bruno could rival Fernandinho, KDB and Gundogan people may call me nuts but I can see it. When all three are inform it's honestly breathtaking what those three can do, and with our firepower, it could be frightening. Width, however, is important, when becoming expansive and AWB general play would certainly have to improve love the fact Ole is so forward-thinking.
I watched this video which came out an hour ago and it does make sense for Ole to maybe go for him as a squad player after what you said.
He is good on the ball and seems good at ball playing, other things you can notice is how quick up the pitch he can press during an attack to provide a counter a press when there is no fullbacks there, to initiate a quick counterattack whilst the opposition all disjointed from their attack.
I also read a little article about him how he likes to slightly push players off their balance as well and you can see it in the video.
All 3 about being a ball playing defender, one vs one defender and a high press type player is going to be hard to find - but ole may try to find a squad version to allow us play the 352 better when needed or rotate with Maguire who is our main defender.
Is it just me or am I watching a serial foul machine here? I’d count something like 6-7 fouls in or right around the penalty area...
I‘d say United fans won’t appreciate the numerous free kicks he’s going to give away with that style of play.
He definitely is, it's the way he defends or something. When he applies a press he pushes the attacker off balance
Looks like we're planning to replace Rojo, with Rojo.