Hmm well made point @OkeyPotential Centre Back signing?
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
Hmm well made point @OkeyI was a big fan of what I saw of Tapsoba about five years ago (plus his stats were fantastic) and he was my first choice CB I was hoping we'd buy back then. He's another like Martinez who could basically act as a playmaker out from the defence, while being much more physical and athletic.
I haven't watched him since then, but if I remember correctly a Leverkusen fan said that he had one or two seasons where he seemed to drop off a little (not bad, but not as good) before then having another very good season. That was another year or two ago though, so no idea how he's done since then.
It depends on the extent of the injury. If he's out for a few weeks, I don't think that changes anything materially. If it's several months, maybe we'll dip into the market for cheap cover. Either way, I wouldn't be rushing out trying to sign a new first choice player before next summer.
Yeah, Leicester were a basket case last season though. I'd like to take a gamble on someone like him, because he'd need bedding in and also the sporadic times Martinez or De Ligt aren't injured, he'd be sharing minutes with them. Not to mention it's just good future planning and always good to have British talent.
I think it speaks directly to how we likely won't be able to count on him to stay fit for a full season. I don't see a CB as being higher priority than a midfielder, but I also don't think you only have to do one. I even suggested getting someone who can play CB/LB - Calafiori or Hincape, for example.
You realise you said you can't expect Shaw to stay fit and then named him as cover for CB?
I think you just end up in the same position as us this summer with midfield if you wait until summer to start adding - I hope the Nelson rumours are true, because that would be suitable cover and obviously the club doesn't think 6 CBs is daft if they're thinking of adding Nelson. I'd sell Martinez now to be honest, he's a fantatsic player, but you can't build a team around someone who isn't there.
I would sell Martinez to be honest, let someone else deal with the risk. We already have a high injury risk CB in De ligt who we can't shift, I think it's mad to have two.
I just don't see the problem to be honest, 2 of them are yet to prove their good enough to be first choice, 2 of them haven't proved their fitness and 1 is Maguire. I think opportunites have to be given based on merit at this point. We're not Brighton who can just keep playing them and let them make the mistakes required for development. I hope the Nelson transfer in true in that regard, some competition would be nice and not a prohibitive price, with good future planning.
I just think anyone out for a year is never going to come back at the level they left at, so again it would be a downgraded version of De Ligt until he's fit again.
Fair enough. Do you not think it speaks to his potential availability across the season? I don't think it has to be first choice, no one really is "first choice" with us at the moment, because we don't want to spend big on one player. We're buying profiles as I see it and we should be able to do that with CB to add to the squad.
I don't think we can bring anyone in at CB unless we offload someone. Maguire should only have one season left, De ligt is returning soon, Martinez is a short injury you'd assume.
I think this season we need to establish whether Heaven and Yoro are ready to step up so give them minutes. If one of them fails to secure their spot we'll need a starter otherwise we're fine.
I think this season we need to establish whether Heaven and Yoro are ready to step up so give them minutes. If one of them fails to secure their spot we'll need a starter otherwise we're fine.
We can’t count on him to stay fit for an entire season but look at Martinez’s entire injury history then look at Shaw’s entire history, there’s no way on earth any one can actually think it’s more of a priority to bring in a sixth senior centre back over a rotational left back
If Martinez is injured we’ve got Maguire, De Ligt, Yoro, Heaven, Mazraoui and even though he’s an even bigger injury worry than Martinez there’s also Shaw whilst we’re trying to bring Nelson in as a long term prospect and there’s Kukonki also coming through whilst at left back there’s Dorgu who’s never played there and Amass who’s on the back of a long term injury and physically not ready.
I would have been all good with Sensei coming in on a free as he’s a good PL centre back but for a big fee and a starting centre back when we’ve got limited finances and still need a starting midfielder and a rotational left back whilst needing to look at left sided forwards in case Rashford DOES move shows the priorities lie elsewhere.
You’ve also got to accept that no one is going to come in for Martinez with a year left on his contract because he’s an injury concern and they’d have to only wait 6 months to start contract talks to bring him in on a free, the planning of fixing one area each summer isn’t ideal BUT we’ve been so horrifically run for years that it’s the safest and most sensible option.
We don't really need to look at Martinez' entire injury history though, it's since the knee injury, he has been picking up lots of injuries - which is quite natural. I would say it is if they're just a rotational LB. If we're going for a LB, we should be going big. LB we have options that aren't ideal, but CB we have bodies that can't be relied upon - that's how I see it anyway.
I think that the list including Mazraoui at CB says a lot about the quality of our options and we should not be happy with that.
I don't think you necessarily need a big fee. Mosquera came to Arsenal for under 15m, Bournemouth just signed Silva for around £25m, Hincape was 35m? Struijk just moved for 20 odd, Thiaw, etc., etc. We should be looking at the profiles needed now and for when Martinez and Maguire leave - not waiting for the last minute and hope they hit the ground running, which only puts more pressure on signings to be an instant success.
I don't see why not, he's an injury concern in a phyiscal league, but he's clearly brilliant on the ball and a good defender. We have an option for an extra year, so this is essentially the 2 year mark. The plan of fixing one area each summer is dumb, because everything becomes an urgent fix every summer and managers are the ones who just have to deal with the consequences of a poorly built squad in the meantime.
It still wouldn't concern me that much. Martinez's ball playing ability is so good that I think you just take the rough with the smooth there, he helps us so much in build up when he's available that I'd still want him on the pitch as often as possible. Heaven has impressed during the opportunities he got under Carrick last season for the most part, so when Martinez isn't there, I'd be happy enough for those minutes to go to him.
Luke Shaw has also covered that position well in the past. It might be sensible to look towards transitioning him towards some more minutes as CB as his legs start to go and he struggles with the demands of getting up and down in the way a full-back needs to. Shaw's technical ability is great too so he can probably give us some of the traits we miss from Martinez when he's out.
I can see the concern a bit more with the right channel because de Ligt's injury doesn't seem straightforward, Maguire is slow and Yoro hasn't looked as convincing as Heaven has. I just think we're better off waiting a year and doing it properly when we have more information than doing half measures in the short-term. Buy cheap, buy twice.
If one of them fails to step, it means we are relying more and more on Maguire and the other prospect. Whilst he had a good season last season and has generally done well to repair his reputation, I think its a risk to go into a season with one De Ligt injury and Yoro's failure to earn a starting spot away from Harry becoming a default starter. There are too many question marks amongst our 3 RCB options and they both fail then the season could be lost. Heaven I trust a bit more but maybe its just because I like him more so I am biased.
Yoro and Heaven need to step up and establish themselves as a mainstay. Failed that, we will be looking for a new CB, potentially even 2. They would be stuck as squad players for foreseeable future.
Pretty sure he wanted to stay down south
Look at Shaw’s injury record in the same time Martinez has been with us yet we don’t even have bodies as you put it at left back like we do at centre back, by rotational left back I meant someone like Hall where the drop off in quality is currently minimal where the potential is there to become first choice.
The names you mentioned going to other clubs don’t have anywhere near the same quality as a fit Martinez and a fit Martinez is our first choice centre back so we’d need to bring a proven quality centre back instead of a squad player and we simply don’t have the money and the one big thing that you’re ignoring is the fact no one is even in for him.
If someone came in for Martinez then that’s a different conversation but no one is just like no one has come in for any of our centre backs so bringing in a long term prospect with high potential that won’t cost much like Nelson makes sense because we’re already fully stocked at centre back regardless of whether you consider them just bodies, we DON’T even have ‘just bodies’ at left back and only three senior midfielders to play a full season across four competitions.
I feel like we could sign one late if we get a sense De Ligt or Martinez will miss more than the first month.
He would surely want crazy wages, but I think this could be a wise move. He is quality.
And if it means we get rid of the fake tough guy, even better.
We defo need an upgrade in this position. We have 2 CBs that will likely miss most of the season.
No doubt, that midfield was/is important this summer.
But in modern football and if we want to be able to play like Carrick want to (and like other top teams), we need better fullbacks and central defenders.
But in modern football and if we want to be able to play like Carrick want to (and like other top teams), we need better fullbacks and central defenders.
Yeah plus aren't Chelsea meant to be in for him
I don't see how the solution to having injury prone centre backs is to sign more injury prone centre backs.
We need to get rid of both of De Ligt and Martinez over the next couple of years, Maguire is going to go within that timeframe as well obviously. But I think we have to make do this season and start addressing the issue next summer.
Next summer will be the big defensive rebuild
Our defenders have surely got to be the most injury prone in the league??
Martinez, De.ligt and traditionally Shaw (although did well last year) are constantly out and none of them are old. It's a big concern. As many have mentioned Yoro needs to have a really good season.
Martinez, De.ligt and traditionally Shaw (although did well last year) are constantly out and none of them are old. It's a big concern. As many have mentioned Yoro needs to have a really good season.
Next summer, defence will be the focus. First it was the attack, this summer is the midfield, next will be the defence.
Ismaëeo Ganiou of Lens. Obviously not an experienced defender. But I would take him with Sangare both from Lens and Balde as our final three signings.
Ganiou is equally adept at right back which is for me actually more of a priority with Dalot, so his versatility covers both positions.
Balde has lost a bit of form and had a couple of niggling injuries at Barcelona…obviously a narrative of red flags, but I think behind Mendes he still can be the best left back in the world and for around £40-45m fits our transfer strategy.
In a worst case scenario of Martinez, Shaw, Balde and DeLigt out for a while, Maguire out….we still have plenty of options.
Think Ganiou AND Balde probably cost same price as Lewis Hall on his own and solves far more
Ganiou is equally adept at right back which is for me actually more of a priority with Dalot, so his versatility covers both positions.
Balde has lost a bit of form and had a couple of niggling injuries at Barcelona…obviously a narrative of red flags, but I think behind Mendes he still can be the best left back in the world and for around £40-45m fits our transfer strategy.
In a worst case scenario of Martinez, Shaw, Balde and DeLigt out for a while, Maguire out….we still have plenty of options.
Think Ganiou AND Balde probably cost same price as Lewis Hall on his own and solves far more
Another option for that RB/CB hybrid role that we were loosely linked to a few months back is Pierre Kalulu at Juventus. More of a CB growing up but transitioned to a RB at Juve and has a surprisingly great delivery on him. If we sell Mazraoui, I think this is the profile of RB we should be going for. My issue with Ganiou is that Lens play a back 3 so might take some learning to being a CB or RB in a back 4 at the top level.
Balde is class but I just don't see us going there due to injuries after all of the problems we've had with Shaw (until last year). Outside of Shaw it's anyone's guess who is on our potential target list but Antonee Robinson turns 29 in a couple weeks so unless he is available for £25m or less I don't see us going there. David Raum from Leipzig would be one I could get behind though at probably a reasonable fee given his contract situation.
I'd go for the 26 year old CB Oumar Solet at Udinese. He's 6ft4, he's fast, he's built like a tank and he's a ball playing CB. On top of that he's got just 1 year left in his contract. The guy looks like a hybrid between Maguire and Martinez.
Not quite sure how fast Nelson is, but from a clip, he looks like he wants to defend. Good build, uses both feet and head well. Quite a few of those John Terry near post clearances, which is always a good pointer for a CB in terms of positioning and reading a game. He could be what Branthwaite was supposed/is about to be. A tall, solid left-footed English CB that can play a bit.
I think it could be worth a gamble at £10M. Maybe Carrick and his team spotted him in the Champ.
Can we afford to wait until next summer to start it?
Re Nelson, I watch a lot of lower league football and he’s a miles better prospect than Regan Poole ever was. No comparison in ability, Nelson is on a different level.
There is ertainly a need to bring in another body in this position. I'd been hoping for Lacroix, even if it meant selling Martínez, but he is off to Chelsea.
Some good options mentioned above. I've not seen anything of Nelson, though, but highly rated, it seems.
Some good options mentioned above. I've not seen anything of Nelson, though, but highly rated, it seems.
Not heard that name for a while
£52m + addons seems like an absolute bargain for Lacroix in the current market. I'd imagine he probably didn't want to leave London though.
That's a good call on the London angle, and as you say, really good value.
Cheeky Romero bid? Cnut but he will be our Cnut.
How much would you pay for him, my biggest concern is that his discipline will let you down
Don't think we will buy any defender this summer. Unless we can find a player like Lammens who plays somewhere in the back 4 from our scouts. Would be a great bonus.
I feel we are taking risk gambling on De Ligt fitness
Why weren’t we in for Senesi? Made too much senesi.
Think family wanted to stay near London
Can't see this happening this summer unless we buy the Leicester lad for cheap.
If we sign a left back and keep Amass then Shaw will be considered an additional centre back.
Try and scramble together a back 2 that is fit and in form as often as possible through sheer numbers. Hopefully Heaven and Yoro really kick on and stake a claim.
If we sign a left back and keep Amass then Shaw will be considered an additional centre back.
Try and scramble together a back 2 that is fit and in form as often as possible through sheer numbers. Hopefully Heaven and Yoro really kick on and stake a claim.
I agree on De Ligt. Bigger risk than relying on Martinez for sure. Messed up backs can mean never playing top level or staying fit ever again. Will need to spend big on 3 defenders sometime soon.