Potential Matic Replacements

sherrinford

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Not when I’ve watched him. Lyon fans will tell you he is best as a box to box midfielder as well.

His passing is just too erratic as a #6.
My understanding is that a deep midfield pair of Ndombele and Aouar was generally favoured, with Tousart second fiddle (and as the anchor whenever he played) and a three man midfield (one no.6 with two no.8s) very much the alternative.

That’s not to say he couldn’t have been deployed primarily out of position. He did look comfortable sitting though - does he have the engine to go box to box? And I’m not sure it is more acceptable to have erratic passing as a no.8? I liked his passing - very positive - but I can see him misplacing a few, yes, due to his choice of pass.
 

sherrinford

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What you call strong season barely lasted 4 months on a good level. Against top teams he was always found wanting. While Herrera was also not a perfect type of cdm or controller. He excelled in this first season only after carrick was back in lineup behind him and pogba in a 4141 as a more advanced pressing machine or a b2b ball winner. Never really a player who builds from the deep.

Matic is not a successful purchase. After carrick we have not had one player who controlled the midfield for us, just bunch of ill fit guys in the middle getting exposed time to time including fellani, schneiderlin, bastian, and Herrera who was never really a playmaker or controller but hard worker who let go his natural game to adopt to teams and managers demands.

For me this problem has lasted ever since Fergie Left. Woodward and moyes passing out on Kevin strootman to roma in 2013.
‘Reasonably’ strong, and four months at a good level is certainly more than we’ve had from our right wing over a similar period. He has not been a good purchase though, because he was a short term signing which was unnecessary.

Herrera excelled in Mourinho’s first season when he, as well as Carrick, got a run in the side - Fellaini was tried with Pogba first. He did play higher, with Carrick behind him and Pogba, as the energetic pressing midfielder you describe. But then Jose removed Carrick (for no good reason as far as I can remember, unless that was when he started having health issues?) and went to a 4-2-3-1 with Herrera and Pogba deep in midfield. Ander played as the holder and his performances got better and were consistently great finishing the season. Hence why Matic was not needed.

Pogba is capable of playing consistently in a deep no.8 position and would fit the description of controller/ playmaker, interpreting the role in broadly the way that players like Rabiot, Thiago, Modric, Kroos and Verratti do. There was plenty of evidence of this early on in his career here, but it has been less and less apparent as time has went on - due to all his issues (motivation, immaturity, disillusionment, condition?) and also because he has been deployed there less frequently. He is very strong in that role for France, with him being the best midfielder at the World Cup last year.

I think, in Herrera and Pogba, we have had the right personnel here in recent seasons but management have made poor decisions with how to utilise them and build around them in terms of recruitment.

As things stand, for the holding midfield role we could go for either a ‘passer’ or a ‘destroyer’ as we still also need - even more urgently, in fact - a player for the third midfield position too. Both positions, along with the intended role for Pogba, need to be taken into account when deciding who to go for. Buy a destructive anchorman to pair with Pogba deep and get in a proper no.10, or purchase a metronomic distributor at no.6 and a combative box to box player in the other no.8 position to compliment Pogba in the role he was deployed in the second half of the season.

It’s probably looking for too much though to expect two midfield signings while retaining Pogba, if we are in the market for a right back and centre half as well. Unless we are able to avoid a big transfer fee by bringing in someone like Rabiot on a free - but he doesn’t really fit with Pogba in any standard way (unless he indeed can, and actually would, play in the holding role). This is also assuming that we will play a regular shape (4-3-3/ 4-2-3-1) and Daniel James will be tried at right wing, without considering what needs to happen with Lukaku and Sanchez - so there could be much more necessary work on top of that. A centre half, right back and two from a no.8, no.10 and a right winger depending on the envisioned formation, could all be prioritised over a holding midfielder.
 

sp_107

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What about Barella (Xavi said he can be next scholes and highly rated by all Italian top manages) and we made a 30M€ bid in January too for him, I play him next to Ndombele if Pogba leaves

With Ndombele/Barella/Bruno by using Pogba money our midfield is sorted for next 10 years

With Pogba/ Lukaku / Fred/ Matic money we can do this and also we can also add van beek for 40 millions as a back up

Last year our defence was badly exposed because of weak midfield. By adding AWB and a CD to the above guys we will be a force to reckon with, also not too much to spend as we are getting good money on sales!

What you guys think ?
 
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Fer

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What about Barella (Xavi said he can be next scholes and highly rated by all Italian top manages) and we made a 30M€ bid in January too for him, I play him next to Ndombele if Pogba leaves

With Ndombele/Barella/Bruno by using Pogba money our midfield is sorted for next 10 years

With Pogba/ Lukaku / Fred/ Matic money we can do this and also we can also add van beek for 40 millions as a back up

Last year our defence was badly exposed because of weak midfield. By adding AWB and a CD to the above guys we will be a force to reckon with, also not too much to spend as we are getting good money on sales!

What you guys think ?
I hope Pogba stays, but that would be a great midfield. Maybe I would change Fernandes for Havertz, but I know the latter is a bit unrealistic at the moment.

A dynamic midfield of 2 with N'Domdele and Barella would be balanced with a No.10 in front of them.
 

Fer

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Rodri would be ideal, but a midfield of 2 with Barella and N'Dombele would be a big improvement in our midfield.
 

Number32

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I'd take Thomas Partey from Atletico. Everyone from Atleti youth system were never be disapointment for any club in PL.
 

sp_107

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I hope Pogba stays, but that would be a great midfield. Maybe I would change Fernandes for Havertz, but I know the latter is a bit unrealistic at the moment.

A dynamic midfield of 2 with N'Domdele and Barella would be balanced with a No.10 in front of them.
I did mention harvertz name few times as I genuinely believe he could become the best midfielder of this generation but I feel it's Bayern Munich written all over him hence I went with Ndombele/Barella/ Bruno midfield.

but we are seriously being linked to Rakatic in last few days. Seems Ole wants him but he is already 31 and not keen on leaving Barca. what you guys think of having Rakatic for few seasons instead of going for someone like Auoar or Barrella?
 
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Fer

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Rodri could have been the best replacement for Matic, but it seems that Longstaff is the one Ole wants.

IMO someone like Rice, Ndidi Tonali, Weigl, Carvalho, Kessie, Neves, etc would be decent. My dream signing would be Goretzka.
 

bucky

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Rodri could have been the best replacement for Matic, but it seems that Longstaff is the one Ole wants.

IMO someone like Rice, Ndidi Tonali, Weigl, Carvalho, Kessie, Neves, etc would be decent. My dream signing would be Goretzka.
He's more Pogba's replacement than Matic's though.
 

Invictus

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IMO someone like Rice, Ndidi Tonali, Weigl, Carvalho, Kessie, Neves, etc would be decent. My dream signing would be Goretzka.
Would rather Roca than a couple of these, to be honest...could be a good under-the-radar (in comparison with the usual suspects) signing. He and Hermoso played a significant role in Espanyol's strong defensive start to the season — and while his form tailed off a bit, he has a lot of positive qualities for a modern holding midfielder in terms of being press-resistant, positionally quite mature for his age, having the foresight to drop between the center-halves and act as a quick passing relief for the more attacking players (while also being a good metronomic passer himself).

Not the most athletic or robust and would need to toughen up a bit to adapt to the Premier League, but he's among the best holding midfield options from Spain after Rodri (who's the clear standout at the position for his generation) — and was quite good in the recently concluded Under-21 Championship as well.


Florentino is another one — not much needs to be said because he's been hyped for quite as while and could be a special player at the defensive/holding mid position — but Benfica are likely to hold on to him and start a bidding war in the near future, unfortunately! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 

bucky

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Would rather Roca than a couple of these, to be honest...could be a good under-the-radar (in comparison with the usual suspects) signing. He and Hermoso played a significant role in Espanyol's strong defensive start to the season — and while his form tailed off a bit, he has a lot of positive qualities for a modern holding midfielder in terms of being press-resistant, positionally quite mature for his age, having the foresight to drop between the center-halves and act as a quick passing relief for the more attacking players (while also being a good metronomic passer himself).

Not the most athletic or robust and would need to toughen up a bit to adapt to the Premier League, but he's among the best holding midfield options from Spain after Rodri (who's the clear standout at the position for his generation) — and was quite good in the recently concluded Under-21 Championship as well.


Florentino is another one — not much needs to be said because he's been hyped for quite as while and could be a special player at the defensive/holding mid position — but Benfica are likely to hold on to him and start a bidding war in the near future, unfortunately! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Mentioned the same players in another thread. Florentino signed a new contract a few days ago increasing his release clause significantly.
 

OleGunnar20

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Would rather Roca than a couple of these, to be honest...could be a good under-the-radar (in comparison with the usual suspects) signing. He and Hermoso played a significant role in Espanyol's strong defensive start to the season — and while his form tailed off a bit, he has a lot of positive qualities for a modern holding midfielder in terms of being press-resistant, positionally quite mature for his age, having the foresight to drop between the center-halves and act as a quick passing relief for the more attacking players (while also being a good metronomic passer himself).

Not the most athletic or robust and would need to toughen up a bit to adapt to the Premier League, but he's among the best holding midfield options from Spain after Rodri (who's the clear standout at the position for his generation) — and was quite good in the recently concluded Under-21 Championship as well.


Florentino is another one — not much needs to be said because he's been hyped for quite as while and could be a special player at the defensive/holding mid position — but Benfica are likely to hold on to him and start a bidding war in the near future, unfortunately! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
I'd not seen Roca before, looks promising from the highlights. I wonder how much he'd cost.

I agree that Florentino would have been a good option, but I just can't see him being someone we go for - especially with the new contract.

Anyone think Ascacibar would be a decent punt? Real tough tackler, looks to have huge drive and a lot of fight in him. The spitting thing from last season is a bit of a downer but nevertheless, maybe he shouldn't be written off for one mistake? I imagine he'd be cheap too with Stuttgart having gone down.
 

Invictus

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I'm sure he would jump at the chance to come up us instead of City.
To be fair, Rodri was available last season with a €20-25m release clause, and Ruiz had a €30m release clause at Betis — a lot of us wanted United to target them back then (before they joined Atlético and Napoli) because they would be long term upgrades over Matić and Ander at #6/8. Fred is a good player and I like his attitude, but signing him for a fee that matched both of those players combined in the same window (excluding wages, of course) was quite something — especially when they were already good performers at the first team level in what is arguably the strongest domestic league (and at worst, the second strongest after the Premier League). Anyway, water under the bridge now, they aren't the only good talents around — but we must be better at sniffing out bargains for emerging player like that — every other year you get incredible deals in the mercato — and we haven't made many of late, unfortunately (that aspect needs to be remedied because we aren't extracting great value for money with a lot of our recent outlays).
 

Ban

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To be fair, Rodri was available last season with a €20-25m release clause, and Ruiz had a €30m release clause at Betis — a lot of us wanted United to target them back then (before they joined Atlético and Napoli) because they would be long term upgrades over Matić and Ander at #6/8. Fred is a good player and I like his attitude, but signing him for a fee that matched both of those players combined in the same window (excluding wages, of course) was quite something — especially when they were already good performers at the first team level in what is arguably the strongest domestic league (and at worst, the second strongest after the Premier League). Anyway, water under the bridge now, they aren't the only good talents around — but we must be better at sniffing out bargains for emerging player like that — every other year you get incredible deals in the mercato — and we haven't made many of late, unfortunately (that aspect needs to be remedied because we aren't extracting great value for money with a lot of our recent outlays).
Agree on all accounts. If anything it seems we're chasing some young talents this year. Saying that we need an established mid, if not 2.
 

Ace of Spades

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There are options, but first we need to sell Matic to look for a replacement. Hope the links to Italian clubs are true and someone buys him.
 

Ace of Spades

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I feel like this is far more important now if we're losing Pogba. Without a strong base and defence, we'll achieve nothing
Well, irrespective of Pogba I think we need to replace him anyways. He looked like he was running in wet cement compared to other players at the end. He was not protecting anything, and I was wondering if we should just put one of our defenders there as they will atleast put in a challenge and not lose players as easily as he did. It was terrible watching him try to shield our laughable defence.
 

Fer

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IMO it should be a priority to sign a CDM. We already have Fred, Mctominay and Pereira who can play instead of Herrera.

I know that we can't get players like Rodri, Ndombele, De Jong, etc. But we should stay away for Lemina/Bakayoko. There are better midfielders available.

It doesn't matter if Pogba stays or go, we need to address the CDM position ASAP.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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IMO it should be a priority to sign a CDM. We already have Fred, Mctominay and Pereira who can play instead of Herrera.

I know that we can't get players like Rodri, Ndombele, De Jong, etc. But we should stay away for Lemina/Bakayoko. There are better midfielders available.

It doesn't matter if Pogba stays or go, we need to address the CDM position ASAP.
I think we want Longstaff as our Matic replacement hence the term "new Carrick"
 

Johan07

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IMO it should be a priority to sign a CDM. We already have Fred, Mctominay and Pereira who can play instead of Herrera.

I know that we can't get players like Rodri, Ndombele, De Jong, etc. But we should stay away for Lemina/Bakayoko. There are better midfielders available.

It doesn't matter if Pogba stays or go, we need to address the CDM position ASAP.
You can add Lingard and maybe even Mata to that list as well. If we do sign Bruno Fernandes and Pogba stays we will have the worst balanced MF-squad ever.
There is just Matic as a pure DM then, which means that he will have to play the same minutes as last year. Garner is not ready yet, not even close.
I would be severely disappointed if we go into next season without addressing the DM issue. I would not mind signing a more experienced DM; 26-27 years old, it will be needed. We cant let Matic play as much as he did last year.
EDIT
And Longstaff is not ready either to play serious minutes in that role.
 

Fer

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It should be a priority to sign a DM, but we have not been linked with a top DM yet...

Who is your dream signing to replace Matic?
 

In Rainbows

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It should be a priority to sign a DM, but we have not been linked with a top DM yet...

Who is your dream signing to replace Matic?
Ndidi as I don't think he'll cost much and is still young enough to play for years with our young core. My dream is Garner though as I want a DM who has more ability on the ball than someone like Ndidi. I just want Ndidi because he presents a good squad option, and a necessary one for this season. Our only DM is Matic and he's too slow and not all that impressive in positioning himself to stop danger.
 

Fer

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Partey for 50m or Gueye for 30m.

But it seems that we are going to continue with Matic as our only specialist in the DM position.
 

ravi2

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Is there even any indication we’re looking at a replacement? Based on the last season and a half we surely should be.
The way things are looking we barely have money to get the Macguire deal over the line and Ed takes about a month per transfer so Id say we arent in the market for a DM
 

Pughnichi

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Like for like. My nana is quite quick...and lethal with 5 yard passes back to her CBS

I don’t think we need a Matic replacement. Everything points to 4232 this season with 2x box to box. We don’t necessarily need then a defensive midfielder. Just 2 solid central midfielders who can go both ways
 

Handré1990

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Like for like. My nana is quite quick...and lethal with 5 yard passes back to her CBS

I don’t think we need a Matic replacement. Everything points to 4232 this season with 2x box to box. We don’t necessarily need then a defensive midfielder. Just 2 solid central midfielders who can go both ways
With Matic in there we certainly could use an extra player!
 

DarkRed

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You think he’d go right into the starting XI?
maybe, we don't really know his level but could go with him and McT as the base and Pogba as CAM vs stronger opponents, he is most likely better then Fred and Matic and McT is seen more like an 8.