Potential Matic Replacements

Yagami

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They are sumilar but Arthur is more talented Matheus Herique is better in defense, and i think he is very good, but not special imo.
Yeah, that's what I thought after seeing a bit of Henrique myself. Thanks for the reply!
 

jackal&hyde

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I feel like McTominay is already his replacement. We should look for a box to box, Herrera replacement or if we persist with 4-2-3-1 then an AM. Have no idea whom though.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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I think we've got more choice of a destroyer rather than a Carrick type. I would sign:

Thomas Partey - destroyer, plus a new box-to-box with a goal threat in them that would be relieved of too much defensive duties due to Partey's presence. McTominay would be my rotation option for Partey. Pogba will also need a like for like replacement, so if we're to do well next season we need a completely new midfield trio (starting players).
 

Manutd1990

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I've wanted Doucoure for years. He'd be an absolute no-brainer of a Herrera replacement - especially if Watford end up relegated, we could nab him for a very reasonable fee. He wouldn't demand enormous wages, either. I'd see this as a complete done deal, if I was manager.
Yes it would be quite good business,
He wont lift us to new heights, but he would ad valuable depth to our thin squad.
 
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Hawks2008

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I think we've got more choice of a destroyer rather than a Carrick type. I would sign:

Thomas Partey - destroyer, plus a new box-to-box with a goal threat in them that would be relieved of too much defensive duties due to Partey's presence. McTominay would be my rotation option for Partey. Pogba will also need a like for like replacement, so if we're to do well next season we need a completely new midfield trio (starting players).
Yeah Partey would be a nice addition, would be our best midfielder not named Paul Pogba and with a release clause of around 45m feels like a bargain when we paid 52m for Fred.
 

reddevilchennai

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Partey is the man we should be going after. But our board wont see this and will sign Longstaff.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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It all depends on if Ole is still here next summer, but at the moment, it looks like he wants to continue with a 4231, with his starting pivot as McTominay and Pogba, which hasnt been too bad.

The both can and attack and defend to a certain degree, but neither one of them are specialist holding players.

Therefore, we should be looking at getting a good squad player, who will compliment both Pogba and McTominay.

To me, seeing as Pogba and McTominay are more box to box players and neither really control a game from deep, we could really do with someone who is comfortable getting on the ball and controlling the game from deep.

I'm not sure who we could get to fulfil this role, but if I were Ole and wanted to continue with a double pivot, i'd want this profile of player.
 

Ikon

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When we replace Matic, I think we should try signing the best player for the position like how city and Liverpool do. Instead of doing what we usually do.
What sort of madness would that be..?
Woodward will never bend to such a hair brained scheme....:rolleyes:
 

Fosu-Mens

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Yeah Partey would be a nice addition, would be our best midfielder not named Paul Pogba and with a release clause of around 45m feels like a bargain when we paid 52m for Fred.
We could have signed Partey and Marc Roca for the cost of Maguire. And we could have signed Alderweireld and Meunier for the cost of AWB. Regardless of OGS limitations as a manager, we would have been a much better team this season and would, on paper, be serious contenders for top 4.

As for Matic replacement, going with one or both of Roca and Partey would be solid business. Personally i prefer Roca given that he (based on how he plays) seems like a better passer from a central position.
 

romufc

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We could have signed Partey and Marc Roca for the cost of Maguire. And we could have signed Alderweireld and Meunier for the cost of AWB. Regardless of OGS limitations as a manager, we would have been a much better team this season and would, on paper, be serious contenders for top 4.

As for Matic replacement, going with one or both of Roca and Partey would be solid business. Personally i prefer Roca given that he (based on how he plays) seems like a better passer from a central position.
As we have seen over the years, signing players with limited PL experience is tricky, no one knows how long they will take to settle or will they even settle in.

Toby is 30, Maguire is 26
Munier is 28 and AWB is 21

The team was not a quick fix and we were not going to challenge for the title this year, it was always going to be in 2/3 years time.

Why would you build a team to challenge and when it comes to it, you have to replace the players you bought to build the team? It doesn't make any sense.
 

Hawks2008

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We could have signed Partey and Marc Roca for the cost of Maguire. And we could have signed Alderweireld and Meunier for the cost of AWB. Regardless of OGS limitations as a manager, we would have been a much better team this season and would, on paper, be serious contenders for top 4.

As for Matic replacement, going with one or both of Roca and Partey would be solid business. Personally i prefer Roca given that he (based on how he plays) seems like a better passer from a central position.
From the games I saw last season he does look like a solid young DLP with a good passing range and very press resistant, can cut out passes too. However I'd prefer Partey, obviously a strong ball winner and physically suited to the PL, but I also think he is decent on ball and has shown a good technical level so we wouldn't be signing just a pure destroyer. In theory the two could complement each other if both were to be the '2' in our 4-2-3-1, one with more responsibility on the ball and the other being the hardworking enforcer. Of course we would never know until it played out but for less than 100m combined we would significantly strengthen our midfield IMO.
 

Johan07

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Partey is the man we should be going after. But our board wont see this and will sign Longstaff.
Or maybe Partey did not want to leave Atleti, who is playing in the CL this year, have some new exciting players and an promising season ahead of them?
If he continues to perform he will have his choices nxt summer window. Of course we were interested in him this summer, whats this idea just because we did not sign a player we were not "going after him"? He is never ever going to join in the January window as I have seen suggested btw.
 

Fosu-Mens

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As we have seen over the years, signing players with limited PL experience is tricky, no one knows how long they will take to settle or will they even settle in.

Toby is 30, Maguire is 26
Munier is 28 and AWB is 21

The team was not a quick fix and we were not going to challenge for the title this year, it was always going to be in 2/3 years time.

Why would you build a team to challenge and when it comes to it, you have to replace the players you bought to build the team? It doesn't make any sense.
McTominay is meh, Fred is ...., Matic is .... Clearly visible during last season. Not prioritising midfielders was a big mistake which anyone with a presumed understanding of football could predict.

The "no EPL experience" is a flawed argument against not signing players from the EPL. What matters is how a players previous and current team played, the similarity in roles the player is used in, abilities as a player that are to some extent independent on form or changes during a short amount of time(technical and passing consistency) etc.
What gives this argument some merit is the cultural change. Then again, there are some cultural differences between clubs in the EPL aswell.

If one bought two identical players( Player X from a EPL club and Player Y from another league);
Player X played in a completely different system compared to his new team.
Player Y played in a very similar system to his new team.
Will it be riskier to buy player X or Y?

Having a solid team or getting top 4 would make it easier for us to attract decisive players like Sancho. Having footballers that can actually pass and receive the ball would hide the amount of limited footballers in our team and mask our manager and coaches inability to make our team rely on anything other than coincidence when attacking. Instead we bought a fullback that is limited in attack, a central defender for £80m because of his ability in the air and assumed winning mentality that will get roasted if we are caugth on the counter, and an inexperienced winger that is dependent on space to attack(given his low relatively low fee, this transfer would not have made the difference when deciding not to buy additional player so can't really complain about him).

If this was a rebuild towards trying to compete with the best in 3-5 years time, then i do not undertand why we are buying players that are not suited to play how the most successful teams play today. Instead we have bought players that would suit our previous manager and his style of play --> no possession, sit low, defend from crosses and counter attack. Good luck winning anything with this approach in the forseeable future.
 

Lee565

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Emre can would be the best one, he will be cheap as he doesn't fit sarri's style and has been snubbed as a champions league eligible player so he will be available for the Europa league if he came in january.

He was one of the better dm's in the prem before moving to Juventus and i would put him on the same level if not better than the likes of ndidi or partey.
 

sunama

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We won't be replacing Matic anytime soon.
We'll first replace Herrera (and let's not forget, Fellaini) and then if budgets allow, Matic.
 

romufc

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McTominay is meh, Fred is ...., Matic is .... Clearly visible during last season. Not prioritising midfielders was a big mistake which anyone with a presumed understanding of football could predict.

The "no EPL experience" is a flawed argument against not signing players from the EPL. What matters is how a players previous and current team played, the similarity in roles the player is used in, abilities as a player that are to some extent independent on form or changes during a short amount of time(technical and passing consistency) etc.
What gives this argument some merit is the cultural change. Then again, there are some cultural differences between clubs in the EPL aswell.

If one bought two identical players( Player X from a EPL club and Player Y from another league);
Player X played in a completely different system compared to his new team.
Player Y played in a very similar system to his new team.
Will it be riskier to buy player X or Y?

Having a solid team or getting top 4 would make it easier for us to attract decisive players like Sancho. Having footballers that can actually pass and receive the ball would hide the amount of limited footballers in our team and mask our manager and coaches inability to make our team rely on anything other than coincidence when attacking. Instead we bought a fullback that is limited in attack, a central defender for £80m because of his ability in the air and assumed winning mentality that will get roasted if we are caugth on the counter, and an inexperienced winger that is dependent on space to attack(given his low relatively low fee, this transfer would not have made the difference when deciding not to buy additional player so can't really complain about him).

If this was a rebuild towards trying to compete with the best in 3-5 years time, then i do not undertand why we are buying players that are not suited to play how the most successful teams play today. Instead we have bought players that would suit our previous manager and his style of play --> no possession, sit low, defend from crosses and counter attack. Good luck winning anything with this approach in the forseeable future.
I was not actually commenting on the quality of our midfield. Although I agree on some of your arguments but disagree on others.

Agree - Lack of quality all around the pitch, players who cannot pass or receive the ball in tight areas. It was a mismanaged transfer window, we have needed a CM and RW for 6 years now and still this has not been addressed.

Disagree - The signings that were made were good because CB and RB we got one of the best in their respective positions in the premier league. It doesn't concern me the lack of attacking ability of AWB because that can be worked on and no one can say that they have not improved our defence.

Dan James for £15m again was a good buy, nothing wrong with such signings.

Instead of spending £100m-150m every summer and 3 years down the line replacing some why not spend £250m on one summer then coming summers only £50m get the team ready.

Poor management.
 

Fosu-Mens

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I was not actually commenting on the quality of our midfield. Although I agree on some of your arguments but disagree on others.

Agree - Lack of quality all around the pitch, players who cannot pass or receive the ball in tight areas. It was a mismanaged transfer window, we have needed a CM and RW for 6 years now and still this has not been addressed.

Disagree - The signings that were made were good because CB and RB we got one of the best in their respective positions in the premier league. It doesn't concern me the lack of attacking ability of AWB because that can be worked on and no one can say that they have not improved our defence.

Dan James for £15m again was a good buy, nothing wrong with such signings.

Instead of spending £100m-150m every summer and 3 years down the line replacing some why not spend £250m on one summer then coming summers only £50m get the team ready.

Poor management.
That is fair.

Not disagreeing with the signing of James either given the low cost. Still unproductive against balanced team though.

AWB: His posture or tendency to lean over the ball needs to be fixed for him to become a better passer/crosser and contributing when the team is on the ball. Having the ball between his legs makes it difficult to control while having an overview over those around him. And makes it difficult to achieve good crosses or accurate passing.

Maguire: Improvement compared to the options that were available. Not close to being an £80m improvement. His lack of mobility is a big issue --> Yarmolenkos goal against us.

100% agree that we should have bought/spent more this summer based on the needs at that time. My issue is with the prioritizing of the players we needed to buy. If we bought two decent midfielders AND Maguire for an additional £80m then i could somewhat agree, but it this seems like the club prioritized Maguire for that sum instead of buying a midfielder or two. Not a good decision.
 

romufc

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That is fair.

Not disagreeing with the signing of James either given the low cost. Still unproductive against balanced team though.

AWB: His posture or tendency to lean over the ball needs to be fixed for him to become a better passer/crosser and contributing when the team is on the ball. Having the ball between his legs makes it difficult to control while having an overview over those around him. And makes it difficult to achieve good crosses or accurate passing.

Maguire: Improvement compared to the options that were available. Not close to being an £80m improvement. His lack of mobility is a big issue --> Yarmolenkos goal against us.


100% agree that we should have bought/spent more this summer based on the needs at that time. My issue is with the prioritizing of the players we needed to buy. If we bought two decent midfielders AND Maguire for an additional £80m then i could somewhat agree, but it this seems like the club prioritized Maguire for that sum instead of buying a midfielder or two. Not a good decision.
Yea agreed, we seem to be poor at buying, Maguire should really be the one that tops of the team rather than being the main signing.

I understand his the signing though, a leader, proven in PL, can play from the back and the lack of CB's who would have costed alot cheaper. He is ofcourse not worth £80m but at the moment any signing we make will be inclusive of Manutd tax of £20m odd because of the laughing stock we are.

It is clear by July 31st next summer we need minimum 2 CM, CAM and RW if we are playing this 4-2-3-1, Ideally we want a ST and LB too.

If you want to carry out a re-build do it properly not half arsed like we continue to try and do.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Being from Brazil, do you catch much of Gremio?

Their CM Matheus Henrique has been likened to Barca's Arthur who they bought from Gremio themselves. From what I've seen on YouTube, he doesn't look as impressive as Arthur did at Gremio but I know YouTube isn't the best place to judge a player. :D
Matheus Henrique doesn't have an EU passport. Bruno Guimarães, aged 21, more attacking but still a DMC, has a Spanish passport, is a starter for Paranaense. With a buy out clause rumoured at €40m.
 

sincher

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Yes, to me Maguire is a bad signing. I mean I think he is a good player, but not special. To my mind he is not worth the money we spent - we would have been better off spending that on an attacking player or a midfielder or both. Look how easily Leicester replaced him with Soyuncu, who looks frankly just as good.

AWB I am cool about because although he was also expensive he should be our right back for a much longer time.
 

DSG

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Thomas Partey was the best player on the pitch in the recent Atletico v Real derby. He can pick a pass and his positioning is sublime.

Declan Rice will be a CB within two years. Doesn’t have the skill to play DM for a top club.

Emre Can is a fine option, but most likely will not come here.

Julian Weigl is playing CB more often now, but he is a top class ball distributor and a smart player. Lack of athleticism worries me.

Ndidi could be a nice option. I prefer Neves a bit more.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

They have proven that they need protection.
 

Cee90

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

They have proven that they need protection.
Well it depends which way you look at it.

In my opinion, signing a pure defensive midfielder, or ‘destroyer’, may signify that we are going to play on the back foot. This means inviting pressure on to our defence, playing on the counter and willing to surrender possession. Whereas signing more of a deep lying playmaker may highlight that we want to control possession and be on the front foot? Just a thought.

I mean, surely by keeping possession and inviting less pressure on to our defence is kind of a way of ‘protecting’ the defence in the first place? Attack is the best form of defence and all that jazz.

On a side note, I actually don’t think our defence is that bad anyway personally.
 

NoPace

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

They have proven that they need protection.
If Ole had us pressing as high and hard as we did in preseason I'd say we need a mobile DM to cover all the space behind the front 4, but as it is we're relatively shapeless and obviously we could have a new manager preferring any kind of style or formation at anytime and we have no idea if Pogba will be here either, so really what we need is quality, ideally from a younger player, not a specific type of player.

I think the only type of player we don't need upgrades in (and here I'm assuming Pogba does leave this summer as it seems incomprehensible he'd stay after we finish 7th or 8th as betting lines indicates) is at RB where Wan-Bissaka is too good defensively to drop, and we have genuine young talent at LW in James, Rashford and possibly Martial. Anywhere else it's about adding quality (preferably young) players.

TLDR: Doesn't matter if we get the next Pirlo or Makelele at DM, what we need is quality. Though come to think of it, there's way, way more 8/10 destroyers like Casemiro than 8/10 passing DMs like Jorginho so it might be more realistic to look for the former.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

They have proven that they need protection.
If Mourinho needed a destroyer for his counter attacking style, why did he sign Matic? Please pose your question to Mourinho.
 

Chaky_Best

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Why only replacing Matic when we need to replace Herrera, Fellaini, this Matic and probably Pogba this summer ?

Ole is enough an idiot to think that Pereira and Mc Tominay can replace Herrera.

So who would replace Matic for Ole ? Garner? Playing Tuanzebe in midfield ?

Anyway, we need a complete rebuild of our midfield, and if Ole is there we will probably not have what we need.

I would suggest Ndidi - Ruben Neves - Bruno Fernandes
 

Mark Pawelek

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

They have proven that they need protection.
Lots of ways of to turn over the ball:
  • tackle
  • intercept
  • win in the air
  • block or clear
  • win 50-50
  • force opps to misplace their passes
A good manager will make sure his players can win at all these. For example, a luxury attacking midfielder, like Mata, who does too few of them and doesn't provide much in the way of attacking is a greater liability than a DCM like Carrick or Pirlo.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Why only replacing Matic when we need to replace Herrera, Fellaini, this Matic and probably Pogba this summer ?

Ole is enough an idiot to think that Pereira and Mc Tominay can replace Herrera.

So who would replace Matic for Ole ? Garner? Playing Tuanzebe in midfield ?
Obviously not. United clearly need to sign new players. But cannot do so with only 3 players in per transfer window. Ole needs to turnover the squad more. Since 7 left last season (Fellaini, Herrera, Valencia, Lukaku, Darmian, Sanchez, and Smalling), we still need to bring in 4 more players. But 4 astute buys, not 4 mega-buys.

Anyway, we need a complete rebuild of our midfield
I bet everyone here agrees with you.

, and if Ole is there we will probably not have what we need.
Of course Ole wants to build a better midfield.

I would suggest Ndidi - Ruben Neves - Bruno Fernandes
I wish we had £200m to spend on a midfield too. Ole's net transfer budget will probably be less than £50m/year. Your £200m doesn't even solve the midfield issue. You need to build an entire squad, not just a first team. If your squad reserves are weak injuries will slaughter you.

United must look for value in the market to improve the whole squad of 25 senior pros. More signings like James; fewer like Maguire.
 

Bestietom

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Partey 45million = Experienced, Ball winner, Ferocious tackler, protects back 4 and a good passer.

Longstaff 50million = Inexperienced and unproven.

Who would you go for.
 

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Partey 45million = Experienced, Ball winner, Ferocious tackler, protects back 4 and a good passer.

Longstaff 50million = Inexperienced and unproven.

Who would you go for.
United went for neither. I fail to see the point of your post. Longstaff was only going to be a signing for under 25 million. I just don’t get why we get the rinse and repeat of Newcastle’s valuation of him as it’s double that of United’s, so completely irrelevant.
 

Dante

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United went for neither. I fail to see the point of your post. Longstaff was only going to be a signing for under 25 million. I just don’t get why we get the rinse and repeat of Newcastle’s valuation of him as it’s double that of United’s, so completely irrelevant.
Spot on.

It's like some people treat summer transfer tweets like they're gospel truth.
 

tenpoless

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Either of these lads, or Lisandro Martínez (who can also deputize in defense if need be) — and I'd be a happy chappy! :drool:


Has quickly emerged as a reasonably press-resistant passing outlet who can also carry the ball at Ajax while adapting to the midfield role under Ten Hag, and his committed all-action style could make him a real fan favorite. One of the best defenders in the Primera División at Defensa y Justicia as well...
Wacthed the video for 8 mins before realizing it was on loop. Sign him.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Lots of ways of to turn over the ball:
  • tackle
  • intercept
  • win in the air
  • block or clear
  • win 50-50
  • force opps to misplace their passes
A good manager will make sure his players can win at all these. For example, a luxury attacking midfielder, like Mata, who does too few of them and doesn't provide much in the way of attacking is a greater liability than a DCM like Carrick or Pirlo.
I agree. So what you're proposing then is a completely new midfield? I'm down with that. Because none of our midfielders do any of those things. If we're getting a DLP we need a Pogba replacement (he's leaving,for definite) and a major upgrade on Scott as our third midfielder.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Question for all those who want a Carrick/Pirlo rather than a destroyer. A very serious question.

  • Who protects our porous defence if we do that?

    They have proven that they need protection.


Carrick was actually fantastic at protecting the back four. Sure he didnt run all over the place like Kante, for example, but he read the game extremely well and was always high up in the interception chart.

Its very rare you find those type of players, though. However, to answer your question, you get a box to box destroyer next to them. Someone who is solid defensively, but also decent going forward. Kante, Allan, McTominay, Khedira, Henderson, etc.

Examples of teams who play with a double pivot and have a deep lying playmaker with a destroyer are:

Jorginho and Kante
De Jong and De Roon
Delaney and Witsel
Verratti and Gueye

That's a few I know off the top of my head. Guess most teams play with a midfield three, but to me, I would personally prefer that format if we're going to play with a double pivot.

Ole has tried this with Pogba and McTominay but it hasnt quite worked because Pogba's not the type to sit and dictate the game.

Im personally not sure what player could get to be our deeplying playmaker, but its certainly something we need. Then if Pogba goes, we replace him with a number 10.

Attacking Midfielder
DLP - McTominay