Potential Matic Replacements

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
100
Supports
Hannover 96
Don't you think him and Rodri would be a bit crowded at one club?

Bloody hell are Bayern linked with every player who is rated in Germany?! :lol:
Bayern are the obvious next step for a player in Germany, so that's not surprising.

I don't really think his performances over the last months would get him a spot in the first team of City or Bayern, so from my point of view I would expect Zakaria to be more of a squad option. And as such it might work well for either of the clubs, because he has enough quality, but I do see him more of a backup to someone like Rodri.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,706
Location
DownUnder
It's an odd one. He's young, physically very strong, seemingly good at winning the ball back and comfortable on the ball. Am I missing a trick here (other than an injury) or are the lack of links with this player are a bit strange? At City, Rodri has come good so you'd think that would make his signing a little harder. We have a gaping hole in the position.

I've not been following Partey at Arsenal but after him this seems another case of us being surprisingly quiet on a highly rated CM/DM given our lack of quality in this area.
Fernandinho is leaving City, so it’s to replace him, they always have 2 excellent players per position. I’d say at 20 million it’s not much of a risk for them.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
Supposed to be on Citys radar and available for 20 million Euros. Not sure how well he’s recovered from his knee injury, but was very good until it occurred. He‘s 24 by the way and will be moved on this summer, I’d certainly like us to be at the very least scouting him.
I find this hard to believe, do you have a source? I couldn't find a buyout clause. My guess is he'll go for closer to 50m in a bidding war. Seems class.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
1,336
I find this hard to believe, do you have a source? I couldn't find a buyout clause. My guess is he'll go for closer to 50m in a bidding war. Seems class.
He has contract until 2022 and just coming back from long-term injury nobody is paying 50 m for him 20-25 m is about right can't see him going for more than that.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
He has contract until 2022 and just coming back from long-term injury nobody is paying 50 m for him 20-25 m is about right can't see him going for more than that.
You make it seem like his recovery is an unknown, but he'll have played 7 months of football by the end of the season after coming back. Oh, and the Euro too for Switzerland.

His 1 year left won't push the price down that much if multiple clubs are in the race for him.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
1,336
You make it seem like his recovery is an unknown, but he'll have played 7 months of football by the end of the season after coming back. Oh, and the Euro too for Switzerland.

His 1 year left won't push the price down that much if multiple clubs are in the race for him.
Bidding war between Clubs seldom happens it's more of a talking point amongst fans , 50 m was lot of money even prior to Covid for somebody in last year of contract let alone now with most clubs still to recover from its impact.
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,592
Teun Koopmeiners agent has come out and said he’s ready to move.

I’d agree he’s really pushed on again this season and for my money is comfortably the best CM/DM in the Dutch league.

14 goals and 5 assists and dictating play from deep. Outstanding set piece delivery too! He won’t go to United but he’s some player.

I saw @Adnan mention Aurelien Tchouameni and he’s a really promising DM but I doubt he’s on United’s radar. Even so he’s some player at 21!
If we want to be a consistent Champions League team then we need to look at players like this. Between Koopmeiners and Tchouameni we could have a key position sorted for under £40m. People could say they aren't ready for United but we are looking at upgrading Fred and Mctominay not replacing Roy Keane.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
8,829
If we want to be a consistent Champions League team then we need to look at players like this. Between Koopmeiners and Tchouameni we could have a key position sorted for under £40m. People could say they aren't ready for United but we are looking at upgrading Fred and Mctominay not replacing Roy Keane.
Yeah spot on these are exactly the kind of players we should be looking at in this position, the only way I would take Rice over them is if we could significantly reduce his price by involving Lingard as well but otherwise should be looking around europe.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,706
Location
DownUnder
I find this hard to believe, do you have a source? I couldn't find a buyout clause. My guess is he'll go for closer to 50m in a bidding war. Seems class.
Google it, lots of speculation and he’s contract expires in 2022, so they need to sell as he won’t extend his contract. 20 million is a fair price it’s not 2019 anymore, prices have changed, everyone bar City and PSG are struggling as not generating Anywhere near previous levels.
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,592
Yeah spot on these are exactly the kind of players we should be looking at in this position, the only way I would take Rice over them is if we could significantly reduce his price by involving Lingard as well but otherwise should be looking around europe.
Even if we reduce Rice's price by throwing Lingard in the deal we will still be looking at a fee of around £50m to £60m which is an insane fee to pay for a destroyer with limited playmaking or ball circulating abilities.

The only way we fail to sign one of Koopmeiners or Tchouameni is if we don't take a serious look at them and settle for the obvious but expensive option, an occurance I pray won't happen under the new structure as we now have full time senior people working on these issues on a daily basis.

My hope is that we sign one of them plus Milenkovic for a combined fee of around £60m or slightly more then sell off some of the deadwood to fund a move for Sancho.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
2,644
Location
Copenhagen
ven if we reduce Rice's price by throwing Lingard in the deal we will still be looking at a fee of around £50m to £60m which is an insane fee to pay for a destroyer with limited playmaking or ball circulating abilities

Saw this the other day. A bit interesting?

(Not saying he is not limited as a playmaker.)
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,592

Saw this the other day. A bit interesting?

(Not saying he is not limited as a playmaker.)
Interesting for sure but still the opportunity cost of signing him and foregoing the signing of RW or striker will outweigh the benefit of having him as our DM. The likes of Koopmeiners coul solve a problem and leave us with some room, financially, to add another player as in we could sign Sancho and Koopmeiners but definitely won't afford Sancho and Rice in one window.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
2,644
Location
Copenhagen
Interesting for sure but still the opportunity cost of signing him and foregoing the signing of RW or striker will outweigh the benefit of having him as our DM. The likes of Koopmeiners coul solve a problem and leave us with some room, financially, to add another player as in we could sign Sancho and Koopmeiners but definitely won't afford Sancho and Rice in one window.
Personally, I would go for an attacker and a DM. One player to improve attack and one to improve defence. Would add a right back if possible.

I like Koopmeiners profile, but I think it is so hard to know what to make of him. He get so much time and space in Eredivise.
 

AneRu

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
1,592
Personally, I would go for an attacker and a DM. One player to improve attack and one to improve defence. Would add a right back if possible.

I like Koopmeiners profile, but I think it is so hard to know what to make of him. He get so much time and space in Eredivise.
There is always that risk but every transfer carries an element of risk, remember Sanchez? Who would have thought that such an accomplished and established player in the PL would fail so spectacularly here? At least the cost here would be cheaper and thus easier to recover but the potential upside is huge.
 

VanHaal'sRedArmy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
2,068
Boubacar Kamara fits the profile of players we seem to go for these days. Young talent that won't cost a fortune to move.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
Bidding war between Clubs seldom happens it's more of a talking point amongst fans , 50 m was lot of money even prior to Covid for somebody in last year of contract let alone now with most clubs still to recover from its impact.
Thanks for the info.


Saw this the other day. A bit interesting?

(Not saying he is not limited as a playmaker.)
Not as interesting as a highlight video :p

One thing I normally dislike about pass completion rate stats, is that it takes 2 people to complete a pass.

With regards to the graph:
A bad player might not be able to control a near perfect pass or
a good player will not attempt a difficult pass he's certain he can pull off because he knows the receiver will botch it.
 

Tallis

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
341
Thanks for the info.



Not as interesting as a highlight video :p

One thing I normally dislike about pass completion rate stats, is that it takes 2 people to complete a pass.

With regards to the graph:
A bad player might not be able to control a near perfect pass or
a good player will not attempt a difficult pass he's certain he can pull off because he knows the receiver will botch it.
Not sure - what to make of the graph. It shows that Shaw is a better passer than Bruno and AWB is better at making Difficult passes than Rash.

I can’t doubt the data and is interesting to see it but I question whether reviewing this chart is useful to make any real decisions around the quality of football players except in some exceptions.
 

SplitzMagic

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
229
Location
M16
I'm these times I don't get these player replacement threads. Why would we plan on replacing a player that hardly plays?

We also don't even have a completely set 1st team 11 which is really annoying.

If we are going to get anywhere we need to know what our team is and utilise it properly because right now the team looks so out of shape it's unreal.

Its that bad that most of us make excuses for the teams failures to make us feel better.

We need to ditch the 2 cdms and buy Ndidi. Then focus on getting Pogba & Bruno firing with a good backup cms like brozovic. I mean, we bought Van De Beek when we really should have got odegaard.

We have no rhythm or purpose with 2 cdms and basically invite pressure with our usual setup and basically feel great that defending stats are high. What do we expect when we setup like a bottom half team every game playing counter against every opponent.

This is why our signings look so mediocre anyways. Could you imagine Telles playing under Pep? He would be a weapon but we accept the mediocrity and then blame the new players for not being good or ready for the league.

I remember things weren't that much better transfer wise with fergie but at least we had an identity and didn't accept mediocrity. We also had players that would die for the badge. He was battling the glazers and still came out on top which was just legendary but now we've lost our spark.

How many times has a commentator said something like.... 'They have not won at old Trafford in over 30 years'. And then we lose to them that game. It's laughable because we just don't have that edge anymore and it's sad.

So yeah, no point having threads like this because it's not like matic is a vital player for us.

We don't need to spend alot at all but we need an identity under Old because his smile is only going to take him so far.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so negative. I just remember under Ferguson having games where we looked beat and then came back somehow. It's a bitter pill to swallow having to be happy scraping top 5. We're only 2nd because the other teams are gelling. Bit like the year Leicester won the prem.
 

captain666

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
323
Location
Philippines
Yesterday was quite comfortably his worse game for us, I think he's been falling off a cliff since mid last season. His legs look completely gone and he's very slow and cumbersome on the ball. I think we need to look at replacing him in the summer, any thoughts on who we should go for? ❤
And 2.5 years later we are still asking the same question!
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
30,141
Location
Manchester
Is the idea we need a specific replacement for Matic (or any other player really) not a bit dated?

We could do with a CM option, although plenty of academy talent, but they don't need to be a carbon copy of Matic.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
I'm these times I don't get these player replacement threads. Why would we plan on replacing a player that hardly plays?

We need to ditch the 2 cdms and buy Ndidi. Then focus on getting Pogba & Bruno firing with a good backup cms like brozovic. I mean, we bought Van De Beek when we really should have got odegaard.

What do we expect when we setup like a bottom half team every game playing counter against every opponent.

Could you imagine Telles playing under Pep? He would be a weapon but we accept the mediocrity and then blame the new players for not being good or ready for the league.

So yeah, no point having threads like this because it's not like matic is a vital player for us.
Because:
  • Matic seems past it. You'd rather replace your worst midfielder than your best.
  • He's arguably our only DM. Thread may as well have been called "potential DM signings".
  • It's fun to talk about other good players that could be red someday.
If you'd "ditch" our 2 cdm's, what would you do when your shiny new signing, Ndidi, gets injured?

Why do you want to get Ndidi if you seem to think our problem is breaking down teams that sit back?

No player will perform to their standard if they only play the odd cup game. Telles is doing fine, really.

Pep has had his share of flop signings and poorly performing players. He bought Ibra and didn't know how to use him. Stones was awful until recently.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
8,829
Is the idea we need a specific replacement for Matic (or any other player really) not a bit dated?

We could do with a CM option, although plenty of academy talent, but they don't need to be a carbon copy of Matic.
Yeah maybe we should be targeting someone who is a bit of a CDM & DLP hybrid but finding that isn't easy at all
 

OhGee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
209
Because:
  • Matic seems past it. You'd rather replace your worst midfielder than your best.
  • He's arguably our only DM. Thread may as well have been called "potential DM signings".
  • It's fun to talk about other good players that could be red someday.
If you'd "ditch" our 2 cdm's, what would you do when your shiny new signing, Ndidi, gets injured?

Why do you want to get Ndidi if you seem to think our problem is breaking down teams that sit back?

No player will perform to their standard if they only play the odd cup game. Telles is doing fine, really.

Pep has had his share of flop signings and poorly performing players. He bought Ibra and didn't know how to use him. Stones was awful until recently.
Because right now we use 2 players to perform one persons job and both players are terrible passers of the ball. Ndidi or someone similar will allow Pogba to play next to him and provide us with more than Bruno for creativity.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
Because right now we use 2 players to perform one persons job and both players are terrible passers of the ball. Ndidi or someone similar will allow Pogba to play next to him and provide us with more than Bruno for creativity.
I think you're overestimating Ndidi if you think he's a better passer. So what do we do when Pogba is out, go back to 2 terrible passers?
 

OhGee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
209
I think you're overestimating Ndidi if you think he's a better passer. So what do we do when Pogba is out, go back to 2 terrible passers?
No I’m not saying Ndidi is a better passer, I’m saying that he is a better CDM that either of McT or Fred. Also Ndidi is an example - we can use Fernandinho or prime Matic as an example too. McFred as a pairing offers us nothing ito quick forward passing (both of them take to many touches on the ball before looking up to pass and then almost inevitably pass the ball sideways or backwards), passes that break the lines or long range passing. If Pogba is out then we can play McT in a more B2B role or even play VDB next to a proper CDM. McFred as a deep lying pair stunts our creativity and the opposition can focus on Bruno thereby nullifying any attacking threat we have. We are much better when we have Pogba on the field albeit out of position.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
No I’m not saying Ndidi is a better passer, I’m saying that he is a better CDM that either of McT or Fred. Also Ndidi is an example - we can use Fernandinho or prime Matic as an example too. McFred as a pairing offers us nothing ito quick forward passing (both of them take to many touches on the ball before looking up to pass and then almost inevitably pass the ball sideways or backwards), passes that break the lines or long range passing. If Pogba is out then we can play McT in a more B2B role or even play VDB next to a proper CDM. McFred as a deep lying pair stunts our creativity and the opposition can focus on Bruno thereby nullifying any attacking threat we have. We are much better when we have Pogba on the field albeit out of position.
So when Pogba is out we play a "proper cdm" like Ndidi with McTom/Fred/VDB. Two players that can't pass or VDB that passes backwards.

Most of our midfielders can defend fine and do the dirty work, but Pogba is the only one that can pass. So why not get another midfielder that can pass?

We dropped a lot of points during Pogba's recent absence. Bunch of draws against Palace and the like. We should buy with this in mind.

I agree that getting Ndidi is better than relying on McFred. My point is getting a better passer/playmaker would be even better :D
 

AjaxCunian

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
178
Supports
Ajax & United
As I have praised him, he was absolutely terrible yesterday (Teun Koopmeiners). Ive never seen him play this badly, the commentators and Dutch fans were mentioning it as well. This bottom level could never be accepted at United, I guess he does needs another step. He was playing in a different role compared to AZ but he was shocking.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
As I have praised him, he was absolutely terrible yesterday (Teun Koopmeiners). Ive never seen him play this badly, the commentators and Dutch fans were mentioning it as well. This bottom level could never be accepted at United, I guess he does needs another step. He was playing in a different role compared to AZ but he was shocking.
I don't rate him, but I could definitely see not getting called up to the senior squad affecting his mental.

Right now, Brighton's Davy Propper is better than him. People often make fun of his single goal in 3 years, but he made plenty in the Eredivisie that, unlike Koopmeiners, were not from set pieces.

De Boer's a shit manager, but I'm sure he's very capable of rating technical qualities in midfielders/defenders.
 

sherrinford

Full Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
894
So when Pogba is out we play a "proper cdm" like Ndidi with McTom/Fred/VDB. Two players that can't pass or VDB that passes backwards.

Most of our midfielders can defend fine and do the dirty work, but Pogba is the only one that can pass. So why not get another midfielder that can pass?

We dropped a lot of points during Pogba's recent absence. Bunch of draws against Palace and the like. We should buy with this in mind.

I agree that getting Ndidi is better than relying on McFred. My point is getting a better passer/playmaker would be even better :D
You don't think we should buy with Pogba being in the team in mind?

A 'passer' is less likely to have the qualities an Ndidi does possess, and would probably not suit playing alongside/ behind Pogba in midfield. We don't have a great fit for pairing with Pogba in midfield as things stand, and Pogba is a better player than either Fred or McTominay. So I don't see why that would be better?
 

AjaxCunian

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
178
Supports
Ajax & United
I don't rate him, but I could definitely see not getting called up to the senior squad affecting his mental.

Right now, Brighton's Davy Propper is better than him. People often make fun of his single goal in 3 years, but he made plenty in the Eredivisie that, unlike Koopmeiners, were not from set pieces.

De Boer's a shit manager, but I'm sure he's very capable of rating technical qualities in midfielders/defenders.
I think he was a bit more advanced in the Eredivisie, also Koopmeiners also scores from open play doesnt he?
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
21,610
Location
United Kingdom, England
Tchouameni with another impressive performance. This time for the French u21s which was a must win game after their loss in the previous game.


 

LovelyLittlePanda

New Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
366
Supports
Feyenoord
You don't think we should buy with Pogba being in the team in mind?

A 'passer' is less likely to have the qualities an Ndidi does possess, and would probably not suit playing alongside/ behind Pogba in midfield. We don't have a great fit for pairing with Pogba in midfield as things stand, and Pogba is a better player than either Fred or McTominay. So I don't see why that would be better?
If this top destroyer is unavailable, Pogba can't play CM in big games (or so Ole seems to think)

If Pogba is unavailable... Well, we've seen what happens.

So the moment either Pogba or Ndidi is out, we would have to play an entirely new midfield. That can't be good for the team as a whole.

If we get a decent playmaker that covers more ground than Pogba, You'd have Pogba/new DM paired with Fred or Mctominay.

Pogba + Fred has looked decent vs teams that sit back and Pogba in a more advanced role in bigger games is still class.

I think he was a bit more advanced in the Eredivisie, also Koopmeiners also scores from open play doesnt he?
You're right.

17 goals of which 9 penalties, 2 direct free kicks, 2 class finishes from prepared corners in his MVP performance against PSV. Leaves 4 goals (and his assists) I don't know much about because I don't watch all their games. I'm certain he probably has 2/3 screamers with that left of his. There's skill to what he does, just saying his goals might not translate well.

Teun would benefit from acclimatizing to a higher tempo in a better league. I think that would be challenge enough for him. He's 23, there's a chance he won't adapt.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
15,722
James Cooper reckons we won't be signing a DM at all.
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
9,751
Location
left wing
Tchouameni with another impressive performance. This time for the French u21s which was a must win game after their loss in the previous game.

Think how 'progressive' our passing would be with Locatelli and Tchouameni in a double pivot ahead of Botman at CB, with Sancho on the wing. One can dream.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
21,610
Location
United Kingdom, England
Think how 'progressive' our passing would be with Locatelli and Tchouameni in a double pivot ahead of Botman at CB, with Sancho on the wing. One can dream.
Tchouameni is also very mobile which adds to his growing potential. And being mobile is very important against teams who are good at pressing high.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
8,829
James Cooper reckons we won't be signing a DM at all.
Yeah and also confirming my gut feeling is that we have to sell a couple of assets in order to spend, sadly doesn't sound like we have any plans to do that so it's looking like another sub standard summer window again which is not surprising at all
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
15,722
Yeah and also confirming my gut feeling is that we have to sell a couple of assets in order to spend, sadly doesn't sound like we have any plans to do that so it's looking like another sub standard summer window again which is not surprising at all
Think I might just stick the transfer forum on ignore to spare me the heartbreak.
 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
5,906
James Garner will be as exciting as it gets this summer in midfield I’m thinking.