Power struggle

Pughnichi

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Nov 27, 2016
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Remembering when teams like Stoke and Bolton had very physical teams and I would look on with sympathy as their technical abilities just didn’t quite match up and subsequently, they weren’t as good.

Fast forward 10 years and you just can’t escape the need for both. Technical ability and physical attributes (which I’ll define as) pace, stamina and core strength

We are so weak it’s actually laughable.

Sarr on at least two occasions casually wondered into our half swatting Bruno off like he was an 8 year old. Mainoo had a go. Yep…brushed aside with ease.

Mateta dominated our defence with pure power. And let’s not even get started on Chris Richards…who could still be playing now and Garnacho wouldn’t have got past him…he was absolutely bullied yday.

It was as close to men vs boys as you’ll see.

I switched over to watch the Arsenal City game and it looked like a different sport. Both teams in general looked massive.

Out future signings of course need to be technically sound but above anything else they have to have strong physical attributes.

It was obvious as far back as opening day (last season) vs Wolves. And not much has changed
 
The only player in the entire squad in my opinion who has elite acceleration is Amad, hence why he's so good at pressing/nicking the ball. Though he's not that fast in an out and out sprint.

Hojlund is very fast but takes a while to get up to speed, same for Dalot.

There's literally no one else. Hopefully Dorgu is quick.
 
Bolton used to have players like Okocha though, at least when Big Sam was there. It wasn't all brawn.
 
Remembering when teams like Stoke and Bolton had very physical teams and I would look on with sympathy as their technical abilities just didn’t quite match up and subsequently, they weren’t as good.

Fast forward 10 years and you just can’t escape the need for both. Technical ability and physical attributes (which I’ll define as) pace, stamina and core strength

We are so weak it’s actually laughable.

Sarr on at least two occasions casually wondered into our half swatting Bruno off like he was an 8 year old. Mainoo had a go. Yep…brushed aside with ease.

Mateta dominated our defence with pure power. And let’s not even get started on Chris Richards…who could still be playing now and Garnacho wouldn’t have got past him…he was absolutely bullied yday.

It was as close to men vs boys as you’ll see.

I switched over to watch the Arsenal City game and it looked like a different sport. Both teams in general looked massive.

Out future signings of course need to be technically sound but above anything else they have to have strong physical attributes.

It was obvious as far back as opening day (last season) vs Wolves. And not much has changed
City's players have struggled with athleticism this season.
 
There is absolutely no need for Harry to be that weak, that slow to react and look like a disaster about to occur on every play. For his size, I thought we will be dominant. We managed to buy a lot of wrong players just about everywhere. It is not the coaching alone.
 
Bolton used to have players like Okocha though, at least when Big Sam was there. It wasn't all brawn.
Now there’s a player. An absolute joy.

He was also a big guy though. He too would trample all over Antony, Mount, Bruno etc
 
Spot on thread!
It's men against boys in every game.
Seems like powerhouse players the likes of Joelinton etc, who are more strength than skill, playing as AM or FW, are the in thing nowadays. Most teams have at least a couple of these in their line-ups. We are screaming for this type of player. We've missed out on the Jan window but should be a priority in the summer definately.
 
Not to mention a half fit Eze waltzing through our midfield with ease.

He'd be our best player after Amad.
 
I don't remember him being particularly big? Besides, it wasn't what he relied on.
Correct actually. He wasn’t tall. But he was certainly strong. I’d back him heavily if for example he was 50/50 (or just tussling with) the players listed earlier.

We have a bit of speed in Amad, Garnacho and even Hojlund when he gets up to top speed (which is hard to do playing back to goal all game every game)

We have zero speed in central midfield though to carry and progress the ball

Strength and power is the main issue. It needs addressing

Dorgu is a promising start.
 
Spot on thread!
It's men against boys in every game.
Seems like powerhouse players the likes of Joelinton etc, who are more strength than skill, playing as AM or FW, are the in thing nowadays. Most teams have at least a couple of these in their line-ups. We are screaming for this type of player. We've missed out on the Jan window but should be a priority in the summer definately.
People were complaining about McTominay but he had that profile.
 
It was pretty noticeable against Palace yesterday, but it's not like Crystal Palace are some sort of behemoths. They are a terrible, terrible side @Pughnichi . I felt, watching the game, that if our level of bravery was better overall then we wouldn't be talking about any of this today, because we really did have plenty of chance to -bury- them but we just forever made it look easy.

We had a number of free kicks on the edge of the box - nothing happened with them. 57 touches in their box. 57!!!! And that resulted in 2 shots on goal.

They made some chances on the break which you'd expect us to defend better, but it's goalscoring which is killing us
 
It was pretty noticeable against Palace yesterday, but it's not like Crystal Palace are some sort of behemoths. They are a terrible, terrible side @Pughnichi . I felt, watching the game, that if our level of bravery was better overall then we wouldn't be talking about any of this today, because we really did have plenty of chance to -bury- them but we just forever made it look easy.

We had a number of free kicks on the edge of the box - nothing happened with them. 57 touches in their box. 57!!!! And that resulted in 2 shots on goal.

They made some chances on the break which you'd expect us to defend better, but it's goalscoring which is killing us
I understand your point…and we should be more clinical.

Personally I just feel the physical aspect of the game has been falling short for a while. As suggested in original post…we were physically well below at the start of last season.

But I guess that’s our problem. There’s too many of them

We’re weak.
We can’t do anything from set pieces
We can’t create chances from open play
We can’t get shots off even with that amount of touches in oppo box
We’re just a bit of a mess
 
We're always second to everything. It's like our players hesitate in the hope somebody else might react first. Palace waltzed through our midfield because our players always let them get a yard on them and then can't catch up. I don't know if it's confidence but nobody in our team appears to want the ball, or to be the one to lose it.

You don't need to be strong and quick if you're first to everything.

The only ones who don't hesitate are Garnacho and Bruno and they have other problems to sort out.
 
Those are 2 of the most important aspects of the game and we have probably 0 players who have both. 0!.
I agree.

quite a while back I tried listing all players in a delightful graph to show what I perceived they were good at.

Maguire for example has proven (to me at least) he has good mental strength and resilience. But obviously lacks physical and technical

As I was writing it…most of them seemed to be above average/excel….at maybe a couple. Falling short in other areas

I’d love it if we set some boundaries for signed players and they had to be above average in 4/5 areas…and if they aren’t, we move on

Mentality
Technical
Physical
Decision making/game intelligence
Temperament/Attitude

These should be the pillars and standards we set ourselves.

Like you, I can’t think of many players at the club that ticks 4 of those boxes. Perhaps Amad and De Ligt for me
 
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It’s been a problem for us for a very long time. I felt during Ole’s time that the team was set up to protect quite a weak centre, and of course this came apart in his third season when he wanted the team to take the next step. EtH, in an utterly bizarre statement, wanted to be the best transition team in the world yet buys players like Antony, Casemiro, Zirkzee, de Ligt etc. where’s the sense in this?
 
What's becoming more and more obvious is that indulging Ten Hag has been catastrophic for us.

We've a squad stacked of average players who looked good in the Eredivisie but can't hack it in the Prem.
 
What's becoming more and more obvious is that indulging Ten Hag has been catastrophic for us.

We've a squad stacked of average players who looked good in the Eredivisie but can't hack it in the Prem.

It goes way beyond Ten Hag, Casemiro and his ludicrous salary are one of the biggest anchors holding us back and that deal was in the works before Ten Hag arrived.

Ten Hag definitely had a blind spot when it came to pace and physicality, he shares blame for the slow squad we have now, but our reputation as a lucrative retirement home for big names preceded him by years.
 
Ten Hag ruined us on this front (among many others).

I didn't like Rangnick, I thought the problems he was was pointing out were obvious but I'm certain we'd have a far better squad now if he'd stayed.
 
A midget (no offense to any midgets out there) peak Barcelona team featuring Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Alves, Xavi ran circles around damn near every elite European side. Physical attributes are all fine and well but if you're stacked with technical ability its like a mosquito buzzing around a rhinocerous.

Our players lack the technical ability or at least most of them.
 
In three dimensions which are technical skill, physical attribute and football IQ. Our players got just one of them or neither of them.

Amad has very good technical skill but physical weak.
Bruno has good technical skill but physical weak.
Garnacho has average technical skill and quite fast but physical weak.
Mgguire has very good aerial duel and physical strength but so slow.

None of our players are all good in technical, physical and football IQ.

Arsenal
Saka, Rice, Saliba are all good in technical, physical and football IQ.

Liverpool
Luis Diaz, Szoboszlai, Mac Allister, Van Djik, Salah are all technical sound, football IQ and physical.

That's just example but I can't think any of our players who are good in technical skill, physical attribute and football IQ.
 
A midget (no offense to any midgets out there) peak Barcelona team featuring Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Alves, Xavi ran circles around damn near every elite European side. Physical attributes are all fine and well but if you're stacked with technical ability its like a mosquito buzzing around a rhinocerous.

Our players lack the technical ability or at least most of them.
Exactly.
 
A midget (no offense to any midgets out there) peak Barcelona team featuring Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Alves, Xavi ran circles around damn near every elite European side. Physical attributes are all fine and well but if you're stacked with technical ability its like a mosquito buzzing around a rhinocerous.

Our players lack the technical ability or at least most of them.

But that level of technical ability is much harder to gather together than a team of top physical ability(with some technique chucked in as well).

It's just a rarer quality. But there are plenty of athletes.

And also the other factor in that comparison....Messi.
 
But that level of technical ability is much harder to gather together than a team of top physical ability(with some technique chucked in as well).

It's just a rarer quality. But there are plenty of athletes.
True, you see it in every team now. The best teams usually pick up the most technical players available whilst keeping their team athletic.
 
True, you see it in every team now. The best teams usually pick up the most technical players available whilst keeping their team athletic.

I think it's always been the case. Apart from the odd exception like that Barcelona team you need a certain number of players with top physical ability in the right areas.

But United have been a club for a long time that for some reason want to do things differently. Want to win by doing the very opposite of winning teams.

Barely buying players in their prime,barely signing players proven in this country and yeah, barely buying players who are athletic.

We just can't seem to add the necessary and logical ingredients.
 
A midget (no offense to any midgets out there) peak Barcelona team featuring Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Alves, Xavi ran circles around damn near every elite European side. Physical attributes are all fine and well but if you're stacked with technical ability its like a mosquito buzzing around a rhinocerous.

Our players lack the technical ability or at least most of them.
I feel technical ability can only get you so far in the Premier League, which at times requires some good old-fashioned grunt work to win those second balls. You’re right our players don’t have any technical ability and even if they did, the application of it is all wrong
 
I watched a you tube of Dorgu against Napoli and I've seen enough. Kid can play. Hes got all the tools to be a player in this league.

So we going in the right direction with signings like him.
 
I've been repeating this for a long time now and we lack the physical, athletic and technical qualities to succeed in the current EPL.

But where the physical and athletic levels need be raised are in deeper midfield and at CB. The CB and deeper midfield positions are the most crucial to how you will get attacks going from the back in-possession and the same players will need to defend transitions in larger spaces when we get hit on the counter with a high volume of players committed into the opponent's half. If you as a team can't complete the aforementioned tasks at CB and deeper midfield then you compromise your half spaces and the system of play becomes very weak.

So what we need is players at CB and deeper midfield who can eat up ground quickly out of possession but also have the ability to progress the ball forward at a consistent rate whilst maintaining a good level of ball retention.

One CB and two midfielders with the aforementioned attributes will make a noticeable difference to the first 11 and make the system of play more fluid imo.

This is why we can't impose our game on the opposition and it's been a problem for far too long and it has a detrimental effect on the rest of the team.