PR Draft QF: Sjor vs Big Dunk

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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-------------------------------------------------- TEAM SJOR --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TEAM BIG DUNK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TEAM SJOR

Tactics

Have 2 words for you:
Zico and Andres Iniesta, must see TV.


TEAM BIG DUNK

DEFENDING


A wonderfully organised defence marshalled by Gaetano Scirea. Both Scirea and Khurtsilava are intelligent defenders, possessing excellent positioning, making clean and perfectly timed interceptions and supreme readers of the game. Desailly, will be the dominant stopper, a perfect blend of physical, mental and technical ability. Thus, we can mix with zonal and man-marking strategies. All my defenders are excellent on the ball, but here Scirea will be my ball-playing libero, with Desailly and Khurtsilava given more of the man-marking duties. Carlos Alberto and Denis Irwin are two fantastic two-way wingbacks who are solid defenders, now given more attacking licence in a back five. On the left flank, Irwin would get defensive support from Pirri/Desailly and Carlos Alberto would get support from Khurtsilava/Bozsik, with Scirea covering. Pirri is a tenacious tackler able to cover many ground. Bozsik’s positioning is expert and makes many interceptions deep and high up the pitch. We are compact when defending, hard to penetrate and get behind. With no archetypal #9 to man-mark, Desailly and Scirea can help to nullify any withdrawn/wing-forwards. Cruyff can help cut passing lanes in advanced/central areas. Both Muller and Batistuta were also known to drop back/wide and help with defensive duties. Shilton is the archetypal goalkeeper in terms of consistency, shot-stopping and organising. A team full of leadership, positional/tactical intelligence and big game players.

CREATIVITY & GOALSCORING

A team both comfortable in possession and dangerous on the counter attack. Bozsik, one of the greatest deep-lying playmakers of all time is highly influential, connecting the defence to the attack, switching the play horizontally or vertical direct passes and helps to control the tempo. Scirea also contributes to build up play (carrying the ball high or wide, executing direct long balls, pass-and-move attacks). Scirea, Khurtsilava and Desailly can all step forward higher up the pitch into the build-up phase, when one advances, two shall sit at the back. Cruyff is at the creative heart of the team, a playmaking genius and the cleverest player on the pitch. With more of a free-role, Cruyff will roam the pitch (deep, high and wide). Cruyff will especially combine fabulously with Scirea and Muller. Pirri has an immense attacking output (goals and assists) from his respective midfield role. Carlos Alberto and Irwin will provide width and attacking support: Irwin with accurate crosses and runs, Carlos Alberto contributing with more possession focused drives forward, relying on his ball skills and passing ability. Both Carlos Alberto and Irwin are also known for scoring important goals. They will dovetail with Cruyff outwide too, Cruyff both underlapping and overlapping the wingbacks. Both Khurtsilava and Desailly can become extra attackers if needed, driving through lanes with their powerful runs: Khurtsilava with a long-range powerful shot, Desailly with a slalom run and cool finish. All this creativity and attacking-output supports two of the most prolific goalscorers of all time: Muller and Batistuta, two highly intelligent and lethal forward. Muller is the most dangerous striker in the box of all time, while also offering so much more: direct pass and move, false #9 contribution, off-ball movement, extra man in midfield when needed, big game clutch ability. Batistuta was immense alongside a playmaker and other forward – here he completes a strike partnership with Muller, assisted by Cruyff. Batistuta can strike from far, run with the ball with power and pace, assist his teammate, or finish nearer to goal from the crosses/through-balls he receives. We are very dangerous at set-pieces too: Irwin, Cruyff and Bozsik contributing to a plethora of crossing/set-piece options, and the likes of Muller, Batistuta, Pirri and Desailly menaces in the box.
[/QUOTE]
 

Physiocrat

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Dunk's front 3 is amazing although I don't really buy either Irwin or Carlos Alberto as wing-backs. Now it could work in this case with Cruyff working both wings a bit like Boniek used to but it could still do with some more offensive wing-backs to make it work as well as it could.

Sjor's front four is absolutely immense. I can see it causing all sorts of problems. That said Batigol and Muller be a nightmare for his CBs.

On the fence at the moment.
 

harms

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Sjor with one of the best Brazil 82' inspired sides that you can have :drool:
Iniesta is perfect for this role (even though he's more Giresse than Socrates), Blokhin & Elkjær are exactly the type of dynamic hard-working forwards that you want for such set up and Tigana with Schweinsteiger are one of the best pairs of holding midfielders that you can want for such a possession-heavy side. The defense is set up beautifully as well — even Cole (probably a younger Arsenal version?) should be enough for that left wing with Blokhin ahead of him (especially since there are no wingers on the other side).

For Big Dunk I'd probably prefer a more withdrawn forward next to Müller/Batistuta, preferably one that would comfortably peel out wide — Cruyff is going to exploit all the free space around the box, of course, but there's only one Cruyff... and neither of his fullbacks are ideal for line-hugging overlap roles even though both can execute them at a very good level. Khurtsilava may also struggle against the pace of Sjor's front two — his unconventional physique made him a very tough opponent for tricky dribblers but he did lack pace because of it.

Leaning towards Sjor at the moment.
 

Synco

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Pretty much agree with all Physio said.

I think Sjor's setup is the more neat tactical construct, and his front six + FBs is just sexy football. But yes, Müller and Batistuta is a mean duo to go against Sjor's central defense. Still, both are better suited to play alongside one more creative forward instead of another primary goalgetter, as is Dunk's setup as a whole imo.

@BIG DUNK Can you say something about Khurtsilava, is he a good fit to play against Blokhin, Iniesta, Elkjaer?
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I personally don't think Cruyff would enjoy playing in a team with 5 defenders.

I really loved Dunk's setup from the last game, although I did prefer if Nestor started as DM in that team.

While Cruyff was a no brained reinforcement for that team, a replacement for Van Hanegem in the midfield diamond instead of an extra defender would have been aces in my books.

Sjor's team is class and I don't see any flaws. Iniesta and Tigana in magic squre setups has kind of become the norm in drafts here but Bastian makes an appearance for the first time if I am not wrong and boy, he looks tremendous there.
 

Šjor Bepo

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cheers boys

@harms yeah, lets say its the Arsenal version though with Cashley i dont think he really changed that much, it was just that he went from an offensive side to a very defensive one. Usually you can spot the difference in players after the change and detect why it happened, i dont see it with Cole so reckon it was purely based on tactics. Irrelevant for this game just thought its interesting for discussion.

@GodShaveTheQueen different personnel and reckon he would shine in a 5 at the back. Imagine Alves and Marcelo as fullbacks and Elkjaer instead of Batistuta. In that team i reckon he would be close to his best even though formation wise you went almost as far from him as possible
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Imagine Alves and Marcelo as fullbacks
I mean that is the absolute extreme of goatness. Might as well call it's a 3-4-3 instead of a 5 man defense with those two and that is Cruyff's home turf obviously. In most other 5 man defenses even with good wingbacks, I don't think it's gets the best out of Cruyff.
 

Šjor Bepo

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I mean that is the absolute extreme of goatness. Might as well call it's a 3-4-3 instead of a 5 man defense with those two and that is Cruyff's home turf obviously. In most other 5 man defenses even with good wingbacks, I don't think it's gets the best out of Cruyff.
in a regular draft that pair would roughly be around the current ones dunk has. But true, it is more of a 352/343 though feck me if i know where the line is between a back 3 and back 5 and even if there is a line...
 

harms

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@harms yeah, lets say its the Arsenal version though with Cashley i dont think he really changed that much, it was just that he went from an offensive side to a very defensive one. Usually you can spot the difference in players after the change and detect why it happened, i dont see it with Cole so reckon it was purely based on tactics. Irrelevant for this game just thought its interesting for discussion.
Yeah, that’s fair — he didn’t change that much, it’s just that his role was so different.
 

BIG DUNK

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Dunk's front 3 is amazing although I don't really buy either Irwin or Carlos Alberto as wing-backs. Now it could work in this case with Cruyff working both wings a bit like Boniek used to but it could still do with some more offensive wing-backs to make it work as well as it could.
Given I have Scirea as my libero (and Desailly and Khurtsilava), I didn’t feel I needed two aggressively offensive wingbacks. I needed two wingbacks who score 7 or 8 out of ten in defending, attacking, crossing and positioning.

If we compare Denis Irwin with the historical pin-up boy Roberto Carlos I think Irwin is superior in tackling, positional intelligence, timing of attacking movement, crossing, set-pieces, man marking and clever overlapping/underlapping runs.

Carlos Alberto was also a complete footballer, a playmaker on the right flank who was also a terrific defender. I think he’ll have a special relationship with Cruyff here like he did with Pele.
I’d always choose Irwin/Carlos Alberto on the flanks over Roberto Carlos/Dani Alves if my life depended on it.

Moreover, Scirea would also help on the flanks and combine with his fullback/playmaker/supporting forward.

For Big Dunk I'd probably prefer a more withdrawn forward next to Müller/Batistuta, preferably one that would comfortably peel out wide — Cruyff is going to exploit all the free space around the box, of course, but there's only one Cruyff... and neither of his fullbacks are ideal for line-hugging overlap roles even though both can execute them at a very good level.
True, a forward like Stoichkov, Henry or Seeler would be effective alongside one of my centre forwards. But when we were drafting I made the call that they would be a deadly strike partnership (they have so much to their game: in the build up play too not just the goalscoring) in central, wide and deeper areas.

I’m hoping my reinforcement pick Cruyff can work in those wide areas now though.

Khurtsilava may also struggle against the pace of Sjor's front two — his unconventional physique made him a very tough opponent for tricky dribblers but he did lack pace because of it.
@BIG DUNK Can you say something about Khurtsilava, is he a good fit to play against Blokhin, Iniesta, Elkjaer?
Remember it’s not just Khurtsilava versus Blokhin-Iniesta-Elkjaer :D he has Desailly and Scirea too. Two of the most formidable stoppers/sweepers (in terms of physical/mental qualities).

Khurtsilava’s game was never based on pace, it was his unbelievable reading of the game, positioning and timing that made him a defensive juggernaut. If he did get touch tight with his man, he knew how to use his body too. If you had given Khurtsilava the lightning pace of Ivan Cordoba he wouldn’t have developed into the same defender. Blokhin/Elkjaer will need that space to run into behind, so no doubt Khurtsilava won’t be positioning himself high. Scirea is also a worldclass covering defender. Desailly came up against both power and pace in his career and nearly always came out on top. Carlos Alberto can also comfortably play that stopper side-back role for added support when we defend deep.

I would always rather have three supremely intelligent defenders coming up against pace then three ‘quick’ meat-heads at the back - as no defender will ever win a 100m race against Blokhin. But Khurtsilava-Scirea-Desailly will make it a slow chess game.
 

Synco

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Cheers for the info on Khurtsilava, Dunk. I agree Alberto will further solidify the right hand side.
Remember it’s not just Khurtsilava versus Blokhin-Iniesta-Elkjaer :D he has Desailly and Scirea too.
Of course, but I know them better, and there are also no questions whatsoever about them here.

I ultimately went with Sjor, as I think he has a great side. But I also like a lot about this 343 (including the CM), and I think with just a few alterations it could have gone the other way just as well.
 
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Physiocrat

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Given I have Scirea as my libero (and Desailly and Khurtsilava), I didn’t feel I needed two aggressively offensive wingbacks. I needed two wingbacks who score 7 or 8 out of ten in defending, attacking, crossing and positioning.

If we compare Denis Irwin with the historical pin-up boy Roberto Carlos I think Irwin is superior in tackling, positional intelligence, timing of attacking movement, crossing, set-pieces, man marking and clever overlapping/underlapping runs.

Carlos Alberto was also a complete footballer, a playmaker on the right flank who was also a terrific defender. I think he’ll have a special relationship with Cruyff here like he did with Pele.
I’d always choose Irwin/Carlos Alberto on the flanks over Roberto Carlos/Dani Alves if my life depended on it.

Moreover, Scirea would also help on the flanks and combine with his fullback/playmaker/supporting forward.
Fair point about Scriea, I had forgotten his tendency to work the flanks.

I also understand why you picked Irwin and Carlos Alberto but with two rather central orientated strikers your attack is just too narrow and will make it relatively easy for Sjor to have a compact back four which will be hard to play through.
 

Himannv

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I think Muller and Batigol will be an absolute nightmare for that CB pairing. I like the balance in the rest of the team from Sjor so I voted for him, but I’m open to changing my mind on this one if there’s a compelling argument in his opponent’s favour.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Moreover, Scirea would also help on the flanks and combine with his fullback/playmaker/supporting forward.
Good point. Don't remember exactly who it was, but remember maybe from some of @harms compilations being super impressed with Scirea's attacking through the flanks, especially the left hand side. Think that is when I started rating him higher than Baresi in a pure libero sense.
 

General_Elegancia

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Sjor made a great 4-2-2-2( magic square)

Two forwards who are comfortably in wide-areas like Blokhin and Elkjaer, both are also hardworking and dynamic players in 4-2-2-2 system. In midfield area, I think it's very luxury set-up, all of them are great on and off the ball( yeah Zico wasn't a lazy player). Iniesta is placed perfectly in this set up due to his selfless style of playing( a lot similarities to Girese even body structure).

I agree with Big Dunk about Scirea and his tendecy to choose his fullbacks too, he liked to drift-wide and could work the flank really well. They will be an absolute nightmare for opponent's center-backs. Although I would prefer forwards/strikers who can drift-wide effectively like Seeler or Stoichkov, both Batigol and Muller had nice build up play, hold-up play and one-two passing and combination( especially Muller).

Both have great sides imho.
 

harms

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Good point. Don't remember exactly who it was, but remember maybe from some of @harms compilations being super impressed with Scirea's attacking through the flanks, especially the left hand side. Think that is when I started rating him higher than Baresi in a pure libero sense.
Yeah, insane performance (with Baresi on the other side).

 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Yeah, insane performance (with Baresi on the other side).

Forgot he actually made a Giggs-esque assist from the left wing :lol:

Was absolutely amazed the first time I saw it.

P. S : At 5:20 in above video in case anyone just want to see the assist.
 

Šjor Bepo

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tbh i feel for dunk, its a nice team but he didnt stand a chance after GOAT did my tactics.