PR Draft SF - GSTQ vs Enigma

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

------------------------------------------------ TEAM GSTQ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TEAM ENIGMA ---------------------------------------


TEAM GSTQ

Style of play - Free flowing attacking football, dominate possession.

Special task - Law to harass Beckenbauer when we are not in possession

Why not Maldini on Garrincha? - Firstly, Marzolini was an excellent defender who can hold his own even against the best. Secondly, I wanted my two best defenders inside the box against Kocsis and Cristiano. I would bank on Maldini and Figueroa to keep any and every kind of service out.



TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Style: Build around der Kaiser in the heart of defence, direct style with quick transitions and hitting the opposition with pace.

Defence:
Unchanged since last round Franz Beckenbauer bosses the defence, that is tailored to get the best of him with a more defensive minded Bergomi on the right, able to tuck in and allow him to foray forward, a classic strong and rigid stopper in Shesternyov and a more attacking full back on the side in Maxime Bossis is in more attacking role who will surge forward when we're on the ball to overlap Cristiano and help the attack. Having Garrincha on the right balances out that wing, as Mane Garrincha doesn't need much support to own that flank in the attacking phase.

Midfield:
Midfield took a complete revamp with the exception of Rijkaard at the base, who still protects the back four and shield the defence forming a formidable understanding with Beckenbauer. Rijkaard is well suited to hold fort having played with another libero in Baresi and is perfect for the holding role. The new faces are Graeme Souness - Liverpool's midfield general, who brings even more solid presence to the middle of the park with some real uncanny passing ability and soft touch when on the ball. His range of passing was outstanding, his shifting feet and dribbling ability allowed him to navigate challenges and his technique in cutting across the ball to fire home helped him to 55 goals from midfield. His game was an irresistible blend of subtlety and aggression, mixing the passing range, tenacity, awareness and a sheer force of will that elevated him as one of Pool's finest.

Another addition to the team is Josef Masopust, the ballon D'or winner and referred as the "King of Slalom", but best put by none other than one of the very greats that played at that time:
“I was surprised how full it was as a player. Luis - was one of our best midfielders when disrupt enemy attacks, Suarez was a genius ball, and Paco was fantastic facing the opposing defenses. But Masopust could do all that at once: retrieve the ball, market, dribble and break into the area. He was a player outside series”. The definition corresponds to Ferenc Puskas. Man Talking, as you can imagine Josef Masopust, the best Czechoslovak player in history, chosen by the Czech Federation itself.

Additional quotes on him:

Czechoslovak first player to win a Ballon d'Or 1962 (the other is Pavel Nevdev in 2003) and second best player in the World Cup in Chile after Garrincha, if history will reserve a place to Masopust it is the huge legacy left. He started playing in Teplice, but soon the Dukla Prague took him to their ranks, where he was 16 years of service playing over 386 matches in which scored 73 goals. He did before going to Belgium and become the first Czechoslovak national to leave outside its borders to go to another club sign.
They were hard times, where the Dukla was dominated by the army and where Masopust was the real engine of the team. passes, goals, arrival, work, virtually nothing was missing from this todocampista rise even reached four Czechoslovak league and third in the European Championship 1960.

Attack:
A fearsome duo on the flanks who can burn the opposition with pace and trickery will attack the space between the full backs and CB's with their electric speed and dribbling, whilst Kocsis will engage the central defenders and alongside Ronaldo will be a very clinical and threatening duo both on the ground and especially in the air. On comes Garrincha whose distribution from the wing is well appreciated by both Cristiano and Kocsis on the box.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@GodShaveTheQueen @Enigma_87 All the best

 

[Enigma_87]

Thanks for setting it up @Edgar Allan Pillow all the best @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[Himannv]

I feel like Enigma’s team was a bit better the previous round with Silva in it. Having said that, it’s a juggernaut and hard to vote against.

 

[Gio]

@GodShaveTheQueen What was the thinking with the reinforcements? You looked a couple of steps away from perfection at the quarter final stage, but this wasn’t the route I thought you’d take. Still a formidable side and perfectly balanced.

 

[Enigma_87]

I feel like Enigma’s team was a bit better the previous round with Silva in it. Having said that, it’s a juggernaut and hard to vote against.

Cheers mate.

I’ve been watching some videos of Masopust lately due to the draft and I’ve been particularly impressed with his work rate and especially short passing ability. He does seems to be one of the outstanding midfielders of his generation (haven’t picked him so far). And probably rate him more after this.

One compilation from @harms worth seeing


I really like him in that more advanced role and he had an eye for the goal alongside his dribbling ability that can create trouble for the opposition.

 

[Enigma_87]

@GodShaveTheQueen i really liked your team throughout and voted for you in all games so far. Nice blend of some solid core and exciting wing play.

However I think this team is probably step down from last game, I mean Matthaus, Djalma(especially with someone like Finney down the flank) is definitely a lot better than Lahm/Zito.

That Matthaus / Neeskens midfield looked fantastic so interesting what provoked the change?

I also think you made a mistake with Marzolini as Garrincha is definitely a game winner here and despite Marzolini is not a scrub but an excellent full back, Maldini probably is the one of the very few that can match up withGarrincha on that wing.

 

[Theon]

Think I preferred GSTQ’s team from the last round - not sure he’s upgraded well here.

Haven’t checked all the restrictions but from a quick scan seems like he could have done Neeskens / Marzolini for Messi / Bozsik which looks perfect:

Law - Messi​

Dzajic - Zidane - Finney
Bozsik - Matthaus
Maldini - Figueroa - Djalma​

 

[harms]

Yeah, GSTQ's quarter-final team was certainly better.

 

[Jim Beam]

However I think this team is probably step down from last game, I mean Matthaus, Djalma(especially with someone like Finney down the flank) is definitely a lot better than Lahm/Zito.

Know you all like history books, but not sure on which planet (at least for me) Djalma - Finney is better than Lahm - Finney especially when you consider that Lahm operated as a world-class RB behind someone like Robben and this partnership have a lot of resemblance to one of the best combos in modern game. In any case, I would always opt for (along Cafu) probably technically the most superior fullback that ever played the game. This partnership with Finney just elevates him even more.

On the other hand, I was one of the few that didn't see Matthaus - Neeskens partnership in double pivot as optimal, so even this (balance wise) looks like a step in the right direction for me.

Masopust is a clever upgrade though, with his runs and dribbling, shades of Iniesta there and you have an upper hand in Garrincha - Marzolini 1 on 1. Still, it is pretty close.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Hi, sorry been a bit sick and asleep mostly, so couldn't join the debate. Will make a quick explanation post.

My actual plan was to replace Zidane with Di Stefano and get an absolute juggernaut of a midfield on and off the ball.

But I have long wanted to build a Passarella team with Maldini and never got a chance and knew I probably wouldn't anytime soon again since I am not a fan of picking Maldini as a R1 pick.

Matthaus blocks Passarella through Inter Milan and Di Stefano through Argentina, so I had to sacrifice both. Obviously drastically reduces the quality of the team in the interim round but I was starting to feel like the team was really boring and I couldn't relate to it.

If you replace Marzolini with Maldini and put Passarella at CB, you'd see why the current reinforcements seem perfect and the team actually looks a bit interesting. Well as interesting as a 4-3-3 can get.

Anyways, no shame in losing to a juggernaut. I was anyways never going to win this draft, you can never beat a really well built magic square in a draft game. At least I have never lost with one and I have built at least 2 good ones from memory.

Good luck @Enigma_87 and @Physiocrat , you are going to need it.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Also, the notion that my QF team was better is laughable really. It had players of higher quality but the synergy was all wrong.

Zidane-Matthaus-Neeskens is just stupid and I have long argued that midfields like that dont work in real life. It needs a Charlton or Di Stefano or Gullit.

And having a defensive fullback behind Dzajic is okay as I always felt he was very individualistic like Garrincha and there is Zidane on that side as well but you absolutely need an attacking fullback behind Finney. In modern era, I think Finney would have formed some great partnerships with fullbacks both on and off the ball like Beckham did. Djalma-Finney is just shiny names without getting the best out of that flank. Lahm-Finney is drool worthy.

My team is probably the second best in this game but is miles better than my QF team. At least IMO.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

That's a perfect build around Masopust!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just some feedback for Enigma, although he has had decent reinforcement rounds, the problem with his team is despite having the biggest names compared to other teams, I don't get awestruck with his team like I do with Bepo and Physio's teams. Two major problems really that don't lead to perfection.

1. Bossis - You need more flair and a more aggressive attacking fullback there.
2. The midfield - It lacks any sort of flair and is very bland. You need a Falcao-esque figure there especially considering none of your front 3 will contribute from deeper areas. And as good as Masopust/Souness/Rijkaard were, they were not very high in the flair quotient.

Flair is needed to be awestruck and win the edge votes at the business end of drafts when teams don't have basic flaws.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

agree with beam and scrappy, no way that the team was better before though scrappy did pay a major price for tactical improvement

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And since the game is more or less done and dusted, let me throw some light on what my other plans were.

I sadly could never get my hands on Voronin. But if I did get him and since I had Maldini all but signed up, I was finally going to build my dream Ajax 1995 team. Matthaus was never in the plans.

All I needed were -

1. A left side midfielder - I was all but decided on Bonhof since my Germany quota was free
2. A DM - desperately wanted Voronin
3. A sweeper keeper - I have watched a decent amount of Ivo Viktor in this draft and he was terrific with his hands. Definitely underrated here, his shot stopping and ball catching ability irrespective of the power of the shots is insane. Sadly, he hardly used his feet, so he was a no go. Didnt research any names as such but he had to be replaced.

That is 4 reinforcements and it would have been ready for the semis.

4. And if I did reach the final and got a 5th reinforcement, wanted to replace Zidane with Di Stefano

Pardon the arrows, I just took an already made one from SMT and just changed names.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Alright, I probably wont be around for the rest of the game/day, so congratulations @Enigma_87 , well played!

My apologies for not responding to everyone's individual posts, they were all pointing to similar things so just posted my thoughts.

 

[harms]

And since the game is more or less done and dusted, let me throw some light on what my other plans were.

I sadly could never get my hands on Voronin. But if I did get him and since I had Maldini all but signed up, I was finally going to build my dream Ajax 1995 team. Matthaus was never in the plans.

All I needed were -

1. A left side midfielder - I was all but decided on Bonhof since my Germany quota was free
2. A DM - desperately wanted Voronin
3. A sweeper keeper - I have watched a decent amount of Ivo Viktor in this draft and he was terrific with his hands. Definitely underrated here, his shot stopping and ball catching ability irrespective of the power of the shots is insane. Sadly, he hardly used his feet, so he was a no go. Didnt research any names as such but he had to be replaced.

That is 4 reinforcements and it would have been ready for the semis.

4. And if I did reach the final and got a 5th reinforcement, wanted to replace Zidane with Di Stefano

Pardon the arrows, I just took an already made one from SMT and just changed names.

Yeah, this looks brilliant.

 

[Gio]

Cheers mate.

I’ve been watching some videos of Masopust lately due to the draft and I’ve been particularly impressed with his work rate and especially short passing ability. He does seems to be one of the outstanding midfielders of his generation (haven’t picked him so far). And probably rate him more after this.

One compilation from @harms worth seeing


I really like him in that more advanced role and he had an eye for the goal alongside his dribbling ability that can create trouble for the opposition.

Shades of the Di Maria / Cristiano partnership from 2013/14 ish in the tandem between Masopust and Cristiano here.

 

[Physiocrat]

@GodShaveTheQueen Nice Ajax 1995 side idea you had there. I can see ADS loving that role.

 

[Synco]

I don't think Enigma's midfield is really lacking flair or creativity: Beckenbauer/Rijkaard will contribute a lot from deep (disagree with GSTQ on Rijkaard there), and Masopust is in it further up. Although I must say I really liked Silva in that team. Needs perhaps a few final tweaks to inspire me 100%, but a really strong side in any case.

I also think GSTQ's reinforcement was fine, despite dropping GOAT power & it seemingly being a stepping stone move. Lahm/Finney is brilliant, Matthäus/Neeskens wasn't ideal, and I rate Zito very highly. I also love Maldini at CB (which I'm sure is the role he'd play today), so with Figueroa, central defense can't get much better for me. Can't comment too much on the Marzolini/Dzajic wing, so would just buy GSTQ's explanation there.

 

[General_Elegancia]

I don't think Enigma's midfield is really lacking flair or creativity: Beckenbauer/Rijkaard will contribute a lot from deep (disagree with GSTQ on Rijkaard there), and Masopust is in it further up. Although I must say I really liked Silva in that team. Needs perhaps a few final tweaks to inspire me 100%, but a really strong side in any case.

I also think GSTQ's reinforcement was fine, despite dropping GOAT power & it seemingly being a stepping stone move. Lahm/Finney is brilliant, Matthäus/Neeskens wasn't ideal, and I rate Zito very highly. I also love Maldini at CB (which I'm sure is the role he'd play today), so with Figueroa, central defense can't get much better for me. Can't comment too much on the Marzolini/Dzajic wing, so would just buy GSTQ's explanation there.

Agree with comment about Enigma’s midfield, I don’t think his midfield boys lack flair or creativity. Masopust had some great dribbbling and short passing skills, which could break a defensive block. Both Rijkaard and Souness also had great passing skills too, especially Rijkaard who was almost the main playmaker of Milan in 89/90 when Gullit was absent over 95 percents of league games. Beckenbauer is Beckenbauer, he will contribute to make some great passes for sure.

 

[General_Elegancia]

And since the game is more or less done and dusted, let me throw some light on what my other plans were.

I sadly could never get my hands on Voronin. But if I did get him and since I had Maldini all but signed up, I was finally going to build my dream Ajax 1995 team. Matthaus was never in the plans.

All I needed were -

1. A left side midfielder - I was all but decided on Bonhof since my Germany quota was free
2. A DM - desperately wanted Voronin
3. A sweeper keeper - I have watched a decent amount of Ivo Viktor in this draft and he was terrific with his hands. Definitely underrated here, his shot stopping and ball catching ability irrespective of the power of the shots is insane. Sadly, he hardly used his feet, so he was a no go. Didnt research any names as such but he had to be replaced.

That is 4 reinforcements and it would have been ready for the semis.

4. And if I did reach the final and got a 5th reinforcement, wanted to replace Zidane with Di Stefano

Pardon the arrows, I just took an already made one from SMT and just changed names.

It looks amazing.

I think Grosics will be your potential sweeper gk choice base on that you couldn’t pick Yashin due to Voronin, Neuer due to Bonhof, Alisson/ Ederson due to Santos, Schmeichel due to Law, VDS due to Neeskens and Law and Carrizo due to Di Stefano.

 

[harms]

I’m pretty sure that for Ajax (in the first stint) he would more often than not be the main playmaker (sometimes even as an attacking midfielder).

 

[General_Elegancia]

I’m pretty sure that for Ajax (in the first stint) he would more often than not be the main playmaker (sometimes even as an attacking midfielder).

For Rijkkard, yes

Yeah he’s sometimes even played as attacking midfielder in Ajax( he could perform at every role in midfield ).

 

[harms]

Also, the notion that my QF team was better is laughable really. It had players of higher quality but the synergy was all wrong.

Zidane-Matthaus-Neeskens is just stupid and I have long argued that midfields like that dont work in real life. It needs a Charlton or Di Stefano or Gullit.

And having a defensive fullback behind Dzajic is okay as I always felt he was very individualistic like Garrincha and there is Zidane on that side as well but you absolutely need an attacking fullback behind Finney. In modern era, I think Finney would have formed some great partnerships with fullbacks both on and off the ball like Beckham did. Djalma-Finney is just shiny names without getting the best out of that flank. Lahm-Finney is drool worthy.

My team is probably the second best in this game but is miles better than my QF team. At least IMO.

It’s probably harsh to say that that team was better but the general sentiment was probably that you could’ve done a much better job upgrading it. Looking at both teams maybe I would’ve even voted for this one but letting your best midfielder go and moving a GOAT left back centrally just seemed so off-putting.

Although the path that you’ve laid out for the later rounds makes sense.

 

[Enigma_87]

Know you all like history books, but not sure on which planet (at least for me) Djalma - Finney is better than Lahm - Finney especially when you consider that Lahm operated as a world-class RB behind someone like Robben and this partnership have a lot of resemblance to one of the best combos in modern game. In any case, I would always opt for (along Cafu) probably technically the most superior fullback that ever played the game. This partnership with Finney just elevates him even more.

On the other hand, I was one of the few that didn't see Matthaus - Neeskens partnership in double pivot as optimal, so even this (balance wise) looks like a step in the right direction for me.

My point was Matthaus/Djalma is infinitely better than Zito/Lahm. Naturally there isn't much between Lahm and Djalma and it's up for debate who is better, as there's always a question with the oldies how their game will transcendent and develop under current conditions. Love Lahm of course and even if you consider him better than Djalma the upgrade is marginal at best.

From Zito to Matthaus though is a big downgrade. Of course I can understand the rational, but I disagree with that notion that the pairing can't be optimal, especially in the given setup. Djalma and Maldini are defensively sound defenders who can plug in the gaps when the team is on the backfoot. On top of that you have Figueroa who is an aggressive libero and can step up in the hole when needed which makes the necessity of a designated holder a less of a requirement. On the double pivot - I think you can make it work optimally by putting the handbrake on Neeskens and let Lothar be in his natural role. Neeskens can play in a more tactical and disruptive deeper role as the defensive B2B being also tactically disciplined. His character won't stand in the way accepting a more secondary role as he is used to it throughout to his career to play in the shadow of Cruyff.

Masopust is a clever upgrade though, with his runs and dribbling, shades of Iniesta there and you have an upper hand in Garrincha - Marzolini 1 on 1. Still, it is pretty close.

Cheers, his close control and passing ability helps him slot right in the team without too much hassle.

 

[Enigma_87]

Also, the notion that my QF team was better is laughable really. It had players of higher quality but the synergy was all wrong.

Zidane-Matthaus-Neeskens is just stupid and I have long argued that midfields like that dont work in real life. It needs a Charlton or Di Stefano or Gullit.

And having a defensive fullback behind Dzajic is okay as I always felt he was very individualistic like Garrincha and there is Zidane on that side as well but you absolutely need an attacking fullback behind Finney. In modern era, I think Finney would have formed some great partnerships with fullbacks both on and off the ball like Beckham did. Djalma-Finney is just shiny names without getting the best out of that flank. Lahm-Finney is drool worthy.

My team is probably the second best in this game but is miles better than my QF team. At least IMO.

yeah that makes sense. I had many variants in the RR but really if you want to change the mechanics, given the restrictions, you have to take a hit here and there. To me Neeskens/Matthaus looks fantastic as I've said but having someone like Charlton/Di Stefano elevates it even further.

TBH facing Maldini/Djalma on the wings got me nervous before the RR as it locks down my biggest threats on the wing and you can hardly choose better counter in terms of defensive acumen than those two.

That Ajax 95 idea looks mint though and is close to perfection given the restrictions.

 

[Synco]

Naturally there isn't much between Lahm and Djalma and it's up for debate who is better, as there's always a question with the oldies how their game will transcendent and develop under current conditions.

Yeah, especially with Djalma and Nilton I find it obvious they were modern/attacking fullbacks shackled by a rigid tactical role. This may be a somewhat more surprising claim regarding Djalma than Nilton, but I've watched him in detail a few times and it's my impression of him. But as you say, it's a question with most pre-modern fullbacks.

 

[Enigma_87]

Just some feedback for Enigma, although he has had decent reinforcement rounds, the problem with his team is despite having the biggest names compared to other teams, I don't get awestruck with his team like I do with Bepo and Physio's teams. Two major problems really that don't lead to perfection.

1. Bossis - You need more flair and a more aggressive attacking fullback there.
2. The midfield - It lacks any sort of flair and is very bland. You need a Falcao-esque figure there especially considering none of your front 3 will contribute from deeper areas. And as good as Masopust/Souness/Rijkaard were, they were not very high in the flair quotient.

Flair is needed to be awestruck and win the edge votes at the business end of drafts when teams don't have basic flaws.

Cheers for the feedback, appreciated as always and as Sjor said your feedback is one of the biggest reasons this team was elevated tactically during the RR process.

It peaked really early in terms of names and players to build around so the gaps that could be filled were only very specific pieces that I had a bit of luck getting (like Garrincha). I couldn't upgrade with lots of GOAT's due to having filled the big clubs and countries, so incremental but not flashy upgrades was the way to go.

In terms of the above two points, I'm generally happy with the current state of those positions as Bossis you can't really upgrade without sacrificing a key figure somewhere else (Garrincha), most exciting full backs are Brazillians/top nations and either played with Ronnie or played for ton of other teams.

On the midfield. I think the previous round one lacked indeed a bit of spark and creativity mainly due to Bremner and the use of more combative partner next to Rijkaard. With Souness I think there is a clear upgrade in both creative department but also the ability to pick up a pass both long and short from deep and in the middle of the park, so that's a big upgrade. In addition to it we have Beckenbauer able to roam forward when Rijkaard holds fort when we are on the ball so the team can reshape nicely and not lose any flair when moving the ball. Masopust is also someone with clear technical ability in a more rugged and not so easy on the eye era. With his inclusion we don't lose much flair in the attacking third and his love for the left channel, along with galoping runs offsets the need of always having the LB bombing forward.

Still there is something to think about on how I can move it even forward and haven't set sight even on a line to improve without seeing what the options are..

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Neeskens can play in a more tactical and disruptive deeper role as the defensive B2B being also tactically disciplined.

thats an option only if Johan had a family member that also played football.

 

[Enigma_87]

thats an option only if Johan had a family member that also played football.

Neeskens in the early 70’s can fill that role imo without a problem. Here’s him against Arsenal in a strictly defensive role, attacking the first ball and throwing himself into tackles. He also rarely went on a run like his normal role and was defending deep most of the times.

 

[Enigma_87]

Alright, I probably wont be around for the rest of the game/day, so congratulations @Enigma_87 , well played!

My apologies for not responding to everyone's individual posts, they were all pointing to similar things so just posted my thoughts.

Cheers mate, as I said loved your team from the start and imo as a finished product it would be hell to beat for any team in the draft. Hope you feel better as well today.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Neeskens in the early 70’s can fill that role imo without a problem. Here’s him against Arsenal in a strictly defensive role, attacking the first ball and throwing himself into tackles. He also rarely went on a run like his normal role and was defending deep most of the times.

putting effort in was never in doubt but Neeskens and tactical discipline or to be precise him defending in a more disciplined manner is madness. Also, talk about tactical discipline and in the same time you highlighting attacking the first ball and throwing himself into tackles.....

 

[General_Elegancia]

Neeskens defensive abiltiy is very interesting to talk.

 

[Jim Beam]

He throws himself everywhere, that's exactly the problem.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

thats an option only if Johan had a family member that also played football.

I'd be much more confident in Matthaus as the most disciplined and defensive-minded midfielder than Neeskens.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cheers for all the thoughts on the game lads. Pretty great thread for a shitty game. I will try to respond later in the week.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Seeing the love the Ajax setup is getting, I am really pissed at myself. I chickened out after losing Voronin when I could have simply continued with Javi Martinez there who is also perfect for the role. Let this be a lesson for everyone including me, don't run after shiny names.