Pre-season friendly Manchester United - Borussia Dortmund

Tiber

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Bought well and truly back down to earth. If anything is to be taken from this game ,it's Jose as a lot of work to do.
This should not be overlooked no matter what pr job the team try to do.

LVG and Moyes may not have been great, but most our players have been crap over the last 3 years
 

togg

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Shaken, and very stirred......
Its still early days. However if Mou think he can win the EPL by just adding 4 quality players to this crap then I think hes being very very very optimistic. We are 5th place because we deserve it (in a less freaky season we would be 7th). The defense is in shambles (Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Valencia and Mccrap are Stoke level of players), we lack a top quality AMC and if Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba get injured we would be relying on the likes of Lingard, Young, Fellaini, Defail and Carrick.
This. And I think Jose's quote after the match....'not what you were expecting....' etc make me hope he realises this to!
 

DomesticTadpole

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It wasn't a bad performance at all. 4-1 was harsh on United. Defensively there is a lot of work to do but there were some good signs.

Herrera was very good in midfield and has played a lot of minutes in the first 2 games in a high energy role. Bailly looks raw but seems to have a lot of potential. It will be great for Shaw to get through a full 90 minutes. Some really good signs with him but he's way off being match fit.

It was strange seeing Mkhitaryan play on the left with Lingard and Young right. It's unlikely he will play there when the season starts.

Add Zlatan and Martial to that attack and United will be a real threat offensively. I'm really unsure what the plan is defensively. If Jose can turn that back 4 into a top class defensive unit he will have done an amazing job.
I thought him and Herrera were linking up well in the Wigan game, but I suppose Jose wants to look at all the permutations. Yesterday it didn't work.
 

Crustanoid

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We need to disband the club after this performance. P45s all round and turn OT into a theme park
 

Crustanoid

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With a frightening roller coaster ride called 'The Fergie Treble'.....
Have one of those throw the coconut things and employ the jobless Jones, Rojo, and Fellaini as rthe targets. Mourinho can be the compere guy in the circus tent. Rooney as the bearded lady
 

POF

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I thought him and Herrera were linking up well in the Wigan game, but I suppose Jose wants to look at all the permutations. Yesterday it didn't work.
I agree he linked well with Herrera (and Lingard) vs Wigan. Memphis had a stinker vs Dortmund and it hindered a number of the other attackers as a number of promising moves broke down when he lost the ball.

I found it strange that Mkhitaryan is most likely (I hope) to play on the right when the season starts but has only played as a 10 or on the left so far. When he gets fully fit he could be a really key player for United.
 

JustFootballFan

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Its still early days. However if Mou think he can win the EPL by just adding 4 quality players to this crap then I think hes being very very very optimistic. We are 5th place because we deserve it (in a less freaky season we would be 7th). The defense is in shambles (Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Valencia and Mccrap are Stoke level of players), we lack a top quality AMC and if Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba get injured we would be relying on the likes of Lingard, Young, Fellaini, Defail and Carrick.
Depth is certainly an issue.

Whether

--------Ibrahimovic ----------
Martial - Mkhitaryan - Rashford

can function will be crucial for United. Behind that I guess

---------Blind Pogba -----------
Shaw - Bailly - Smalling - Darmian
-------------DDG --------------

That´s a pretty strong 1st team, but the bench is underwhelming. That´s why Dortmund dominated the game. Their bench is much stronger.
 

Jazz

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Well at least we get a thumping now instead of in our first competitive match. If Jose doesn't sort shit before that time, then we'll be hoping to make top four AGAIN (sigh).
Let's see if our soft bastards can up the intensity levels for the City game. I don't care it's pre-season - I want us to beat them. It will set a bad precedence getting rolled over by Pep already.
 

7even

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Its still early days. However if Mou think he can win the EPL by just adding 4 quality players to this crap then I think hes being very very very optimistic. We are 5th place because we deserve it (in a less freaky season we would be 7th). The defense is in shambles (Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Valencia and Mccrap are Stoke level of players), we lack a top quality AMC and if Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba get injured we would be relying on the likes of Lingard, Young, Fellaini, Defail and Carrick.
I don't agree with you. Many of the players you mention could do well in the right enviroment.

First. DDG. And a quartet of Valencia/Bailly/Smalling/Shaw is easily one of the best defensive lines in the league. If you add a midfield three of Schneiderlin/BFS/Pogba and suddenly you have backbone as stabil as ever.

With a bench of Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Darmian and Rojo/Jones our defense is more then capable of challenging for the league. You can add TFM, CBJ, RoShuan Williams and Tainzebe to this.

Maybe if we sell Rojo or Jones we can add another CB but all in all I'm not worried.
 

VorZakone

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Dortmund's attacking midfield is very well stocked with Reus, Gotze, Kagawa, Schurrle, Pulisic, Dembele, Mor.
 

Red Bug

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Yesterday was an experiment. We won't start any league games with that same lineup.

Our best first 11 looks a LOT different.

DDG

Darmian
Smalling
Bailly
Shaw

Schneiderlin
Pogba

Mkhitaryan
Rooney
Martial

Zlatan


Don't panic!
 

Wumminator

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Its still early days. However if Mou think he can win the EPL by just adding 4 quality players to this crap then I think hes being very very very optimistic. We are 5th place because we deserve it (in a less freaky season we would be 7th). The defense is in shambles (Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Valencia and Mccrap are Stoke level of players), we lack a top quality AMC and if Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba get injured we would be relying on the likes of Lingard, Young, Fellaini, Defail and Carrick.

Defail and Mccrap.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
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Its still early days. However if Mou think he can win the EPL by just adding 4 quality players to this crap then I think hes being very very very optimistic. We are 5th place because we deserve it (in a less freaky season we would be 7th). The defense is in shambles (Darmian, Rojo, Jones, Valencia and Mccrap are Stoke level of players), we lack a top quality AMC and if Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba get injured we would be relying on the likes of Lingard, Young, Fellaini, Defail and Carrick.
I agree. Well, except for the "Mccrap", "Defail" and Carrick parts. Also, Mkhi should be our AMC as he's not a winger, but even if played there I don't expect him to live up to a lot of peoples expectations of him.
 

devilish

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I don't agree with you. Many of the players you mention could do well in the right enviroment.

First. DDG. And a quartet of Valencia/Bailly/Smalling/Shaw is easily one of the best defensive lines in the league. If you add a midfield three of Schneiderlin/BFS/Pogba and suddenly you have backbone as stabil as ever.

With a bench of Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Darmian and Rojo/Jones our defense is more then capable of challenging for the league. You can add TFM, CBJ, RoShuan Williams and Tainzebe to this.

Maybe if we sell Rojo or Jones we can add another CB but all in all I'm not worried.
It depends what we really need. Are we going to compete at all fronts or are we happy with finishing 4th and win some FA tin cup every now and then? If the latter is the case then the likes of Mcnair, Fellaini, Valencia and co would be enough. On the other hand if we went to really compete on all front then we need quality strength in depth and players we can depend on. The likes of Rojo, Jones, Mcnair, Depay, Valencia and co aren't players you can depend on
 

devilish

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I agree. Well, except for the "Mccrap", "Defail" and Carrick parts. Also, Mkhi should be our AMC as he's not a winger, but even if played there I don't expect him to live up to a lot of peoples expectations of him.
Mcnair is crap and Depay did fail there's no beating around the bush in devilish world. Carrick was good but he's ancient. He should retire
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
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Mcnair is crap and Depay did fail there's no beating around the bush in devilish world. Carrick was good but he's ancient. He should retire
I agree that McNair and Depay probably aren't good enough to make it here for where we want to be; what I was disagreeing with was the nicknames you gave them. T'was a bit uncalled for.

I do completely disagree with the Carrick part however. He's still far and away our best CM. That speaks more about the standard of CMs we have at the moment than Carrick himself, but still.
 

GazTheLegend

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No point judging anything by this game (which apparently everyone is doing?)

For the last few seasons we've looked incredible in pre season but then drawn/lost multiple matches when it's come to the real thing.

Pre season results are meaningless. I'd take getting beaten 4-1 in every game we play against quality opposition and the charity shield too if it meant we won our first premier league game.

I'm sure Jose is learning a lot about certain players capabilities or lack thereof.
 

Mindhunter

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You think? 3-0 at half time to a team that has sold its 3 best players
Is this the Europa league? Or the CL? Or a PL? Calm down. This is just the start of pre-season, the focus is to get the fitness back. Also, we have a new manager and lots of new faces and the players are getting used to new tactics.

I would rather we win when it matters most than these meaningless friendlies which are used to sell a few more shirts and get a bit more dough for the club. Remember the Moyes pre-season where we blew everyone out of the water. Guess what happened after that?

If we lose 4-1 once the PL starts then I am all with you. Until then just enjoy the pre-season without thinking so much.
 

sunama

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We havent played competitively yet. Spurs were in transition?
Well, if MUFC went into "transition" for 3 years, after Fergie left, then yes, Spurs can also claim that they were in transition once they brought in Poch.
LCFC also changed their manager (and won the title). By MUFC's definition, they were also in transition.

Where rivals don't use the excuse of "transition" for poor performance and some win the title, MUFC use "transition" as an excuse for poor performance. The truth: MUFC hired a really bad manager, to replace a Galactico class manager.
Moyes was poor, 90% of us knew that before he arrived.
LVG spent £250M and managed to get us to 5th place and the FA Cup. He believed that this was a good achievement.

We finally have a big name manager in the hot-seat, so this talk of transition needs to go. There is no transition. Managers can win titles in their very first season. This happens in the EPL and all other competitive leagues.
The only other team who use "transition" as an excuse is LFC. They have been in "transition" for about 2 decades and I desperately hoping we do not follow in their footsteps.
 

The red panther

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Depth is certainly an issue.

Whether

--------Ibrahimovic ----------
Martial - Mkhitaryan - Rashford

can function will be crucial for United. Behind that I guess

---------Blind Pogba -----------
Shaw - Bailly - Smalling - Darmian
-------------DDG --------------

That´s a pretty strong 1st team, but the bench is underwhelming. That´s why Dortmund dominated the game. Their bench is much stronger.
I see it more as

----------------Ibrahimovic----------------
Martial--------------------------Mkhitaryan
-------------------Pogba-----------------
----------Herrera------Schneiderlin-----
Shaw-----Smalling-----Bailly---------TFM
------------------DDG--------------------------

Alternatively

-----------------Ibrahimovic------------------
Martial---------------------------Mkhitaryan
-------------Pogba------Rooney-------------
-------------------Carrick--------------------
Shaw------Smalling----Bailly--------TFM
-------------------DDG-----------------------

I think that:
-the most used subs upfront will be Rashford, Lingard and Mata
-in midfield Pereira will be often used and we will see alot of variation as there are many alternatives and Jose hasn't made his mind up yet
-Bailly will be the key man at the back and will be his prefered RCB, the LCB partner will vary but I think Smalling will get to play most in that role
-We will not see much of Darmian because he is in fact terrible at actual defending and Jose will sniff that out and keep him out of the team, I think TFM or Valencia will be his preferred RB

I pray to the gods Jones will be sold before the end of the summer
 

SteveJ

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Has José said a single word about Martial yet?
 

The red panther

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Well, if MUFC went into "transition" for 3 years, after Fergie left, then yes, Spurs can also claim that they were in transition once they brought in Poch.
LCFC also changed their manager (and won the title). By MUFC's definition, they were also in transition.

Where rivals don't use the excuse of "transition" for poor performance and some win the title, MUFC use "transition" as an excuse for poor performance. The truth: MUFC hired a really bad manager, to replace a Galactico class manager.
Moyes was poor, 90% of us knew that before he arrived.
LVG spent £250M and managed to get us to 5th place and the FA Cup. He believed that this was a good achievement.

We finally have a big name manager in the hot-seat, so this talk of transition needs to go. There is no transition. Managers can win titles in their very first season. This happens in the EPL and all other competitive leagues.
The only other team who use "transition" as an excuse is LFC. They have been in "transition" for about 2 decades and I desperately hoping we do not follow in their footsteps.
Amen to this post,

This we are in transition excuse because we have a new manager and we have new players, it does my fecking head in.

We truely are the only club together with LFC that uses this as an excuse to justify terrible performances and cover up even more terrible decisionmaking. It is the same with players, they need tranition periods, ow wait Depay looks like the most useless player on earth but if we just wait 1 more season, he'll be good, we have been saying that for Jones for over 6 years, people were saying for Anderson aswell. I don't know what is with alot of our fans but they are much to passive when it concerns judging the club. I believe that is an effect of being pacified by Ferguson over the years, they aren't used to dealing with bad management anymore and hence they search for all kinds of excuses to cover up the failures of said bad management, the we are in transition line being the most popular one.

Also seems like it is hardcoded into some fans neo cortex that a manager just can't win the title in his first season that is impossible at United. It is possible at Leicester somehow but not at United...
 

captain666

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Jose is a shrewd old dog,he has just showcased to the Board how inadequate our 2nd string players really are,admittedly flying half way round the world to play 2 games is commercial and hardly good preparation under the conditions, but am amazed how few players actually tried to make an impression!
 

parisite

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Jose is a shrewd old dog,he has just showcased to the Board how inadequate our 2nd string players really are,admittedly flying half way round the world to play 2 games is commercial and hardly good preparation under the conditions, but am amazed how few players actually tried to make an impression!
I don't doubt that they all tried to make an impression but some of them seem incapable of doing so.
Slightly concerned that the clear out hasn't yet started although if we'd done that too early we'd be short of players for this trip.
 

captain666

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I don't doubt that they all tried to make an impression but some of them seem incapable of doing so.
Slightly concerned that the clear out hasn't yet started although if we'd done that too early we'd be short of players for this trip.
Maybe we can leave a couple behind in China?
 

togg

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Shaken, and very stirred......
I don't doubt that they all tried to make an impression but some of them seem incapable of doing so.
Slightly concerned that the clear out hasn't yet started although if we'd done that too early we'd be short of players for this trip.
Yeah, there's no way he could clear out before we went on tour. Anyway, we had only played one game, he needed to see them individually in a game situation with genuine opponents. I suspect he's learnt a lot and would hazard a guess that a few names will be leaving OT in the next few weeks.
 

sunama

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Very good and then we lost the opening game against Swansea at O.T.
Oh yes I remember that.
That was in LVG's first season.
But do remember that LVG arrived very late that season, as he was still in the World Cup.
Lets also not forget that he did not buy the new players until deadline day.
I remember when we played our early games and did badly, LVG was learning that the EPL is very tough. And that even low ranked teams can beat top teams.
I think the MK Dons loss woke him up to that, which fuelled his desire to buy Falcao and Di Maria, who were both considered Galactico class players.

In fairness, yesterday's result was a bit of shock to me, though I do not believe it can be used as a basis of "things to come". It's an early pre-season game with most of the first team missing. When you then add the likes of Jones, Memphis and Rojo - against Dortmund (who are farther ahead in their pre-season), it's going to be a tough match.

One positive we need to take out of the match is that Jose needs to learn fast that Memphis and Jones are not MUFC quality and yesterday's match should give him reason to believe this.
 

sunama

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Jose is a shrewd old dog,he has just showcased to the Board how inadequate our 2nd string players really are,admittedly flying half way round the world to play 2 games is commercial and hardly good preparation under the conditions, but am amazed how few players actually tried to make an impression!
But does Jose need to demonstrate this to the board? I thought he had Carte Blanche to do whatever he wanted.
If he wanted, he could transfer list half the team, without any justification, on his first day. <<extreme example
 

togg

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Shaken, and very stirred......
Oh yes I remember that.
That was in LVG's first season.
But do remember that LVG arrived very late that season, as he was still in the World Cup.
Lets also not forget that he did not buy the new players until deadline day.
I remember when we played our early games and did badly, LVG was learning that the EPL is very tough. And that even low ranked teams can beat top teams.
I think the MK Dons loss woke him up to that, which fuelled his desire to buy Falcao and Di Maria, who were both considered Galactico class players.

In fairness, yesterday's result was a bit of shock to me, though I do not believe it can be used as a basis of "things to come". It's an early pre-season game with most of the first team missing. When you then add the likes of Jones, Memphis and Rojo - against Dortmund (who are farther ahead in their pre-season), it's going to be a tough match.

One positive we need to take out of the match is that Jose needs to learn fast that Memphis and Jones are not MUFC quality and yesterday's match should give him reason to believe this.
Yes, I think it's the 4-1 score not the loss itself. I kind of expected us to draw or lose. After all the hype of Mou, it kind of put everything back into perspective a bit, albeit with all the usual provisos 'its only pre-season friendly', 'players weren't as fit as the opponents' etc etc. It was a shuddering reminder of the reality we have been living in for the last three years...

However, like many on here, I'm not worried - it was just a bit of a 'meh'....
 

Stretford End Phil

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Can't read anything into the game. It was like a stroll for the players, doing their bit to keep up appearances. The Leicester game will inform us of how far Jose has turned our players into MUFC wannabes rather than LVG's dull divas.
 

Catt

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Oh yes I remember that.
That was in LVG's first season.
But do remember that LVG arrived very late that season, as he was still in the World Cup.
Lets also not forget that he did not buy the new players until deadline day.
I remember when we played our early games and did badly, LVG was learning that the EPL is very tough. And that even low ranked teams can beat top teams.
I think the MK Dons loss woke him up to that, which fuelled his desire to buy Falcao and Di Maria, who were both considered Galactico class players.

In fairness, yesterday's result was a bit of shock to me, though I do not believe it can be used as a basis of "things to come". It's an early pre-season game with most of the first team missing. When you then add the likes of Jones, Memphis and Rojo - against Dortmund (who are farther ahead in their pre-season), it's going to be a tough match.

One positive we need to take out of the match is that Jose needs to learn fast that Memphis and Jones are not MUFC quality and yesterday's match should give him reason to believe this.
My initial comment was more to point out that results in pre-season don't necesseraly mean much. Two years ago we looked good early on then boom, we lost.
And as you say, if he can ditch players not good enough that's a big bonus.
 

K2K

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"Can Manchester United score? They always score"
We only had 2 or 3 of 11 first team starters out there yesterday. Depay and Rojo won't be playing very often next season so don't worry, that's if they stay. I think the writing is on the wall for both players anyway.
You are right

But what worries me is that our squad players seem crap.

We need a good squad to complete on all fronts.

So this game shows that we need more than 4 players in .
 

sunama

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But what worries me is that our squad players seem crap.
Same here.
In all our great seasons, we always had a great bench.
Right now, I do not believe that the players on our bench are worthy of taking to the pitch.