Because based on the speed and limited reaction time, combined with the position of TAA’s arm, it’s not clear and obvious imo. At least not enough to overrule the referee.
Premier League Gameweek 12
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He also scored both in the Icelandic league and cup.
I get you’re a Liverpool fan but his arm is clearly not in a natural position. It’s exactly the same scenario that effectively won you lot the Champions League final.
There is no consistency. It's a mess. I have absolutely no idea how they decided he was onside so quickly today when it was a very close marginal call.
I'm mainly defending the first decision with how they arrived at it. I still don't think the way they are interpreting handballs is fair at all though. Why should defenders get treated differently to forwards when it comes down to accidental handballs?
How?! Sissoko’s was up in the air pointing at something.
Alexander-Arnold’s was by his side, slightly elevated.
I should add Sissoko’s was a ridiculous decision as well. They’ve fecked the handball rule.
That Laporte one in the Spurs one was ludicrous.
That Laporte one in the Spurs one was ludicrous.
It was a penalty if the ball hadn't brushed the City players hand first. I don't agree he was in a natural position.
That Laporte incident was the perfect illustration of the unfairness in how they interpret handballs. I can't believe they are sticking with this.
Also...who’s to say that Aguero scores the penalty? His record at Anfield points to it landing somewhere in the Kop.
You'll never walk alone with these referees.
If your point is that everyone is so obsessed with refereeing decisions that they completely miss a good game being played in the meantime, I wholly agree.
Yep. Plus, I also meant that broadcasters will create controversy even when, in reality, there isn't any. Sky are particularly guilty of this, as they are today (IMO).
You could tell that Keane and Mourinho were fed up with it and just wanted to talk about the football. It was getting awkward at the end.
I'm not sure I see the logic in this.
If Liverpool were given an advantage due to the first handball from City then the ref should blow when TAA handles and give Liverpool a free kick. That's the advantage. You can't just ignore the TAA handball and claim to play advantage to Liverpool when the ball is bouncing around in their own box. The idea is laughable as who would say that's an advantage?
For your idea to have any semblance of sense the ref would have needed to blow on the TAA handball either way. To give a pen to City or to give Liverpool a free kick.
Lamport assists a goal with his arm from what I remember
How is that one a wrong decision?
How is that one a wrong decision?
And despite all of this, people are still ignoring Mané's blatant push on Sterling which is the most obvious penalty of them all, since Mané's lunging a yard to get a push in with no chance to win the ball.
I absolutely agree, the referee should have blown. The fact that he didn’t whistle means the goal correctly stands once it goes to VAR. Oliver not blowing up for the free kick is Liverpool’s slice of luck in this instance, not the VAR decision afterwards.
VAR looks for infringements from the attacking side. So they checked for the penalty, once they ruled no pen - you don’t reward the initial Man City infringement by taking away the goal and awarding a free kick at the other end of the pitch.
https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/0...k-and-free-kick-rule-changes-now-into-effect/
- Deliberate handball remains an offense. The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
- The ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm
- A player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
- The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger
- The ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
VAR doesn't just look for infringements from the attacking side though.
I'm not sure what you're saying here? It's either a free kick to Liverpool for the Silva handball or a penalty to City for the TAA handball. You can't play advantage for the Silva handball as you suggested and simply ignore the TAA one. There's no advantage to be had in your own penalty box.
Obviously VAR decided no penalty so of course the goal stood.
The issue is it brushes the attackers hand first before striking TAA. That’s why it’s no penalty under the new rules. It was a stonewall penalty otherwise I don’t care what Liverpool fans say. The City players knew it, but they probably wasn’t aware of the initial offence because it was very hard to spot.
It should have been a Liverpool free kick if Oliver had seen it, but that incident would have been hard to see real-time.
It does when checking goals.
What you going on about here?
We are talking about the handball? Although you could argue it's the same phase of play as the goal. I'm not at all sure of the point you're making.
The first 3 points i was just using to point out decisions that have gone against Liverpool as some people were suggesting that VAR gives everything for Liverpool.
Yeah I thought that Sterling would get a penalty for that.
I haven't seen the Bernardo handball, so can't really comment on it. But - if it was unintentional and his arm wasn't in a position where the body became 'unnaturally larger', then it's not an infringement. It also didn't create a goal or goalscoring opportunity (because it was stopped by TAA), so it shouldn't have been chalked off for that reason either IMO, similar to how a dive that wins a free kick that then leads to a goal isn't pulled back.
The rule's a bit of a mess though, because if TAA hadn't handled the ball and City wound up scoring, then it would've been disallowed for an unintentional contact leading to a goal.
I don’t know what’s so difficult to understand.
VAR does not check if an attacking player was fouled in the build up to them scoring. It is irrelevant. As long as the referee doesn’t whistle before the ball touches the net, then the Liverpool players could have been fouled ten times in the buildup and the goal still would have stood.
I guess in this instance it’s muddied by the fact the City hand denied them a penalty. But once VAR has determined no penalty for that reason, it doesn’t consider rewarding City for the handball by chalking off the goal.
Why you telling me this
I’m responding to your repliesWhy you telling me this
This talk is getting boring now. Clearly we don't all know and probably the refs don't either.
Anyway on to Utd's great form, they look great on Motd. Brighton aren't as shit as Utd made them look. I think Utd can really do well against City in a few weeks with those breakaway tactics and City's defence. Come on Utd.
Anyway on to Utd's great form, they look great on Motd. Brighton aren't as shit as Utd made them look. I think Utd can really do well against City in a few weeks with those breakaway tactics and City's defence. Come on Utd.
Yep exactly this is the very thing that pisses me off the most. Defenders and attackers are treated differently for the same offence. It’s BS.
I'm not saying anything about the goal though other than it should either be a pen to City or a free kick to Liverpool. Play should not just run on. I fully understand how it works.I’m responding to your replies
Yes fundamentally we agree as I said several posts ago. It should have been called a free kick to Liverpool by the referee.
Yeah I’ve actually seen it in slow motion and he seems to actually move his arm up slightly from his side which would suggest intent. You have to wonder why Oliver didn’t give it. VAR would’ve sided with him if he had.
So because it hit Silva’s hand first we would’ve been given a free kick after a VAR check? Is that because City would’ve gained an advantage (TAA’s handball) as a result of the ball hitting Bernardo Silva’s hand?
Brighton adopted a suicidal game plan today. Their manager has form for it at his previous club in Sweden. He was lucky our inability to score consistently avoided him a much heavier defeat. 7-1 would have been a fair reflection on our total dominance todayThis talk is getting boring now. Clearly we don't all know and probably the refs don't either.
Anyway on to Utd's great form, they look great on Motd. Brighton aren't as shit as Utd made them look. I think Utd can really do well against City in a few weeks with those breakaway tactics and City's defence. Come on Utd.
City will certainly come at us too, but they obviously have the quality players to do it. You shouldn’t expect any favours from us. We stopped you winning the title last season by deliberately losing to City
Brighton adopted a suicidal game plan today. Their manager has form for it at his previous club in Sweden. He was lucky our inability to score consistently avoided him a much heavier defeat. 7-1 would have been a fair reflection on our total dominance today
City will certainly come at us too, but they obviously have the quality players to do it. You shouldn’t expect any favours from us. We stopped you winning the title last season by deliberately losing to City
Yes you did. But remember this time you have a Liverpool fan in charge and, if I may be so bold, something of a fast becoming LFC legend.
Edit : unless he was in charge then too?
Yeah it's done. Without Laporte City look poor defensively.
For me Jose summed up the major flaw in all of this, the same thing can happen next Saturday and the decision will be different. There is no consistency & no one, players, management or fans have a clue what to expect. Will the review be 30 seconds or 3 minutes, is it handball or not this week ? What constitutes a penalty ? Why were the monitors installed at the side of the pitch ? Nobody has the answers.
Clueless ole.. should've lost like the other top managers.
Problems of their own making, should of shipped out Sane and brought in a solid DC.
Think City were unfortunate in some aspects of the game. Still well under par for them though performance-wise not helped by the fact De Bruyne and Sterling had big off days.