Preseason Tour Game 6: Bayern v Man Utd (Friendly, Sunday 05 August 19:15 BST)

[Affirmation]

I see. Didnt Bild also break the story of Witsel joining BVB recently?

If I remember correctly they did. As for the match there really isn't any excuses for that performance, we had more pre-season as opposed to them and with the new season looming that was worrying for sure

 

[Janson]

No, would not say that, and perhaps my question came across as highly entitled. However for many fans the overall experience itself is as important as the result. Utd are so dour, on and off the pitch, it has made the match going experience a chore, even without the match there is so little joy around the club, people are not looking forward to games, there is no buzz and much of that is down to how Utd approach games.

Can't be fun to play in either.

I understand where you're coming from. Everyone is different, and I happen to be the type of fan that doesn't mind winning every game 1-0 and parking the bus. I suppose many fans are a bit spoilt from United being so good and exciting for such a long time, that they won't accept anything else.

 

[Ban]

We dint create when it actually mattered in Big games.

What big games?

 

[sunama]

We had one striker on his first game back getting no service and no options on the bench.

Unfortunately, this has been the case for a while.
Parking the bus, creating very few chances and hoping to score from very few chances created.
I am big Jose supporter, but in his 3rd year, I did expect better. Of course, it has been compounded by the fact that the board have not backed him and have purchased only one first team player.

 

[Art Vandelay]

We are one of the best teams in Europe though. So I don’t get what your point was. Like I was suppose to be happy because it’s Bayern Munich.

If we're one of the best teams in Europe then Mourinho must be doing a good job and you should stop your moaning. You can't on the one hand claim you want the manager sacked and then turn around and claim we are one of the best teams in Europe to suit your argument. It's like you're just saying random things because you feel like bitching.

We aren't one of the best teams in Europe, we are rebuilding and we aren't there yet. We are one of the biggest teams in Europe, but that doesn't put us currently amongst the best.

 

[Patrick08]

What big games?

City at home, Chelsea away, Tottenham away, Liverpool away, Sevilla two legs. The ones we won against Liv at home and Tottenham at home came from long balls to Lukaku and us winning a rare Second ball. Only city away for few minutes in second half we created something that was not born out of Longballs on lukaku's head.I'd even add Arsenal at home.

 

[Bobski]

I understand where you're coming from. Everyone is different, and I happen to be the type of fan that doesn't mind winning every game 1-0 and parking the bus. I suppose many fans are a bit spoilt from United being so good and exciting for such a long time, that they won't accept anything else.

I think it is harder to accept when a big club with huge resources chooses to play in a way that makes the result the only thing that matters. West Brom turn up, park the bus, and hoof it to a targetman and it is understandable. Utd doing the same with one of the highest wage bills in Europe and it is much harder to justify.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Unfortunately, this has been the case for a while.
Parking the bus, creating very few chances and hoping to score from very few chances created.
I am big Jose supporter, but in his 3rd year, I did expect better. Of course, it has been compounded by the fact that the board have not backed him and have purchased only one first team player.

We do need to improve going forward, but I don't think he can say he's not been backed. We've spent a fortune, our squad is still a fair bit off, it's just the way the market is at the minute and it's going to be hard playing catch up with the mental prices.

 

[sunama]

When Jose finally understands that most United fans would rather lose 4-3 playing progressive attacking football rather than win or lose a bore fest 1-0, it might be too late but let's be clear here, he's not solely responsible for giving out all those long fat contracts in the last 5 years to players that wouldn't have made our U21s side in the late 90s and early naughties!

I hear what you are saying, but what if the board have told him that they will not pay for any more players and as a result his only objective is to get 4th place?
And that as long as he achieves that, with the current squad (which isn't particularly good), the board will be very pleased.
If this is the case, then Jose may think that playing ultra defensive football is the best way to achieve this.

 

[Acole9]

Very boring match, it's a shame because I was really looking forward to this one, Bayern had near enough full strength side and their stadium is terrific. They played very well, we were alright defensively, midfield totally bypassed and in attack anonymous.

 

[strongwalker]

Everyone say Bild is credible but I don't remember the last time they break a meaningful news.

They are a POS tabloid, but in terms of Bundesliga Football make no mistake, they are *very* well connected. Sure they also post a lot of speculative nonsense about transfers, but with a bit of practice, those can be told apart from the genuine stuff. This, i regret to say, sounds legit.

 

[Blackwidow]

I see. Didnt Bild also break the story of Witsel joining BVB recently?

I do not know how relieable Bild Dortmund is. But with Bild Munich we have the feeling they get the informations directly from somebody out of Bayern's management. They are about always right.

 

[Ban]

City at home, Chelsea away, Tottenham away, Liverpool away, Sevilla two legs. The ones we won against Liv at home and Tottenham at home came from long balls to Lukaku and us winning a rare Second ball. Only city away for few minutes in second half we created something that was not born out of Longballs on lukaku's head.I'd even add Arsenal at home.

You'll need to re-watch the Liverpool home game, we also beat Arsenal away and Chelsea at home.

 

[Janson]

I think it is harder to accept when a big club with huge resources chooses to play in a way that makes the result the only thing that matters. West Brom turn up, park the bus, and hoof it to a targetman and it is understandable. Utd doing the same with one of the highest wage bills in Europe and it is much harder to justify.

It's not hard to justify if you're winning but the problem is that we aren't, and there's no way we can compete with City oil money, no matter how we play, as long as we don't catch up with them in the transfer market.

 

[Mainoldo]

If we're one of the best teams in Europe then Mourinho must be doing a good job and you should stop your moaning. You can't on the one hand claim you want the manager sacked and then turn around and claim we are one of the best teams in Europe to suit your argument. It's like you're just saying random things because you feel like bitching.

We aren't one of the best teams in Europe, we are rebuilding and we aren't there yet. We are one of the biggest teams in Europe, but that doesn't put us currently amongst the best.

But one of the best teams in Europe Bayern Munich sacked their manager mid way through the season? Lol. It’s like some United fans live a football bubble. So was Bayern a poor team which meant they sacked their manager but within 6 months they turned it around minus no summer transfer window to become one of the best teams in Europe? Work this one out for me? How about the time when Madrid sacked Rafa Benetiz? Was they on the reduild? Did Zidane spend millions fixing it?

 

[Patrick08]

You'll need to re-watch the Liverpool home game, we also beat Arsenal away and Chelsea at home.

I think i pretty much covered that. Arsenal away win was good but thanks to De gea too on that one who had a blinder. We also created nothing in Fa cup final against chelsea , another big game.

 

[Patrick08]

It's not hard to justify if you're winning but the problem is that we aren't, and there's no way we can compete with City oil money, no matter how we play, as long as we don't catch up with them in the transfer market.

I am sorry , but that's horse...

 

[JohnnyKills]

I understand where you're coming from. Everyone is different, and I happen to be the type of fan that doesn't mind winning every game 1-0 and parking the bus. I suppose many fans are a bit spoilt from United being so good and exciting for such a long time, that they won't accept anything else.

Yeah all the fans who criticize Mourinho's football are spoilt, and people like you are better fans than us. Now go and collect your top red badge.

If United had been the type of club that ground out dire 1-0 wins every week, you and the other Mourinho apologists would probably never have jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.

 

[Janson]

I am sorry , but that's horse...

You think we can compete with City with our current squad? Seriously?

 

[Vidyoyo]

Just watched the highlights and the only United attack was Fred scuffing a thirty yarder. Was it really that bad?

 

[Janson]

Yeah all the fans who criticize Mourinho's football are spoilt, and people like you are better fans than us. Now go and collect your top red badge.

If United had been the type of club that ground out dire 1-0 wins every week, you and the other Mourinho apologists would probably never have jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.

You are free to go support a more exciting team if you want.

 

[Art Vandelay]

But one of the best teams in Europe Bayern Munich sacked their manager mid way through the season? Lol. It’s like some United fans live a football bubble. So was Bayern a poor team which meant they sacked their manager but within 6 months they turned it around minus no summer transfer window to become one of the best teams in Europe? Work this one out for me? How about the time when Madrid sacked Rafa Benetiz? Was they on the reduild? Did Zidane spend millions fixing it?

You're the one saying we're one of the best teams in Europe and you want the man who took us from outside the CL places to allegedly one of the best in Europe sacked.

Real Madrid sack managers that win the CL, trying to rationalise them is utterly pointless. Bayern weren't happy with their manager and brought their old one back, continuing to be one of the best teams in Europe. Neither team was at a point where they needed to rebuild, neither team have finished outside the CL places in the last 5 years. They are in a different situation to us.

We're in a rebuild, you can deny it and live in your Mourinho is the devil fantasy land all you want. It doesn't change the reality that we fell away from being one of the best in Europe and there are better teams out there than us. We faced one in a pre-season friendly and lost. We're trying to get back there and it's not going to be a quick fix.

You're making points that only vaguely connected to what has previously been said. We both know this is a pointless discussion as the only thing you want to hear is that Mourinho should go.

 

[JohnnyKills]

You are free to go support a more exciting team if you want.

That's your answer is it? We can forget being good again so we should accept this rubbish or give up?

Maybe you live in a world where people can just change teams when they stop winning, but most genuine fans actually want to stick around and see the team get back to the top.

 

[do.ob]

You'll need to re-watch the Liverpool home game, we also beat Arsenal away and Chelsea at home.

United had 3 shots from open play and 32% possession against Liverpool, it was basically the definition of "long ball to Lukaku". It worked out twice though, so I'd file that match as a successfully executed plan.

 

[SecondFig]

Just watched the "highlights", and I know that it's difficult to judge any game purely on highlights, but that was 10 minutes of Bayern attacking. Literally. Apparently, there wasn't a single Utd attack or move that was worth including...

I mean - it's a friendly, so it's it's meaningless (fitness etc) but good God, I'm going into this season with absolutely no optimism

 

[do.ob]

We're in a rebuild, you can deny it and live in your Mourinho is the devil fantasy land all you want. It doesn't change the reality that we fell away from being one of the best in Europe and there are better teams out there than us. We faced one in a pre-season friendly and lost. We're trying to get back there and it's not going to be a quick fix.

How long does "it's a rebuild" remain a valid arguement though. Mourinho spent close to €450m, most of it net on a squad that had some capable players to begin with, I think United have already been very patient with him and it would be more than reasonable to expect him to deliver some football that is worthy of silverware.

 

[Woziak]

I hear what you are saying, but what if the board have told him that they will not pay for any more players and as a result his only objective is to get 4th place?
And that as long as he achieves that, with the current squad (which isn't particularly good), the board will be very pleased.
If this is the case, then Jose may think that playing ultra defensive football is the best way to achieve this.

And you think Jose ego would allow him to only want 4th place after criticising Arsene Wenger as a specialist in Failure for years.....no not buying that he's becomming a relic and top players would rather now play for younger progressive coaches who have played the game like Kovac, Zidanne, Pep, Poch and Tuchel. We need to go get Zidanne asap and say thanks very much for Jose for the last 2 years, we would probably finally start to get a tune out of Pogba and Martial then as well!

 

[redIndianDevil]

You think we can compete with City with our current squad? Seriously?

Why does every thing have to compared to City, is it too much to expect half decent football from a 700m pound team?

 

[Mainoldo]

You're the one saying we're one of the best teams in Europe and you want the man who took us from outside the CL places to allegedly one of the best in Europe sacked.

Real Madrid sack managers that win the CL, trying to rationalise them is utterly pointless. Bayern weren't happy with their manager and brought their old one back, continuing to be one of the best teams in Europe. Neither team was at a point where they needed to rebuild, neither team have finished outside the CL places in the last 5 years. They are in a different situation to us.

We're in a rebuild, you can deny it and live in your Mourinho is the devil fantasy land all you want. It doesn't change the reality that we fell away from being one of the best in Europe and there are better teams out there than us. We faced one in a pre-season friendly and lost. We're trying to get back there and it's not going to be a quick fix.

You're making points that only vaguely connected to what has previously been said. We both know this is a pointless discussion as the only thing you want to hear is that Mourinho should go.

So we are in a rebuild signing Paul Pogba, Lukaku and Alexis Sanchez level of players but Man City aren’t? Or are Man City still rebuilding considering we both started our rebuild at similar times? Or is it different because they had title winners or does that still not work because we still have title winners from our last league winning squad. Not a quick fix? How long did it take Juventus to do it? It’s not a quick fix because we don’t have a clue what we want as a club. Fergie gave us 25 years of identity and we’ve decided to rip it up.

It’s not pointless I’m just waiting for someone to come with reasonable rationale why what we are currently trying to do has a long term vision.

 

[Dans]

Hes holding midfielder.

???

That's my point. Why is he playing that position? He's always played an advanced role previously and was pretty much right mid at Valencia last season.

Mourinho likes playing players in unnatural positions.

 

[Ban]

United had 3 shots from open play and 32% possession against Liverpool, it was basically the definition of "long ball to Lukaku". It worked out twice though, so I'd file that match as a successfully executed plan.

It is if you just see the statistics. Not game live though.

 

[MancRed76]

Alternative version of Morrissey's "We hate it when our friends become successful"

We hate it when United aren't successful
We hate it when United aren't successful
Oh, look at those "pros"
Now look at that pace, it's so slow
Don't watch the videos
Well, they're really laughable
Aha, ha, ha, ha, ha.....

We hate it when United aren't successful
Their disproportion, that makes it even worse
And some teams will destroy them
You bet your life they will destroy them
Burnley could hurt them
Well, they may as well, it's really laughable
Aha, ha, ha, ha, ha....

You see, attacking is key
It really is key
Everybody knows
Every single red knows
They say, "Ah, we scored lots of goals
So many goals, now this team we cannot stand
Curse, our poor old midfield's outplayed
Just listen
La, la-la, la, la....

 

[do.ob]

It is if you just see the statistics. Not game live though.

I saw the game live. I had the same impression. Mourinho instructed his team to abandon build up and instead have de Gea try to find Lukaku who then was supposed to look to play a through ball to Rashford behind Liverpool's high backline. It wasn't pretty, but it worked and it's a commonly used approach against Klopp's approach, even Guardiola sort of did it once.

 

[Art Vandelay]

How long does "it's a rebuild" remain a valid arguement though. Mourinho spent close to €450m, most of it net on a squad that had some capable players to begin with, I think United have already been very patient with him and it would be more than reasonable to expect him to deliver some football that is worthy of silverware.

I think if the football and performance in Europe doesn't improve then until the second half of this season. We've spent a lot, but it's in a market where £75m for a striker and £95m for a midfielder are almost looking cheap so it's a lot harder to fix several positions quickly. Look at what we spent and what we're still lacking. We have two 33 year old former wingers at fullback still, our centrebacks aren't top class and our right wing is almost non-existant.

Having said that though there are expectations and if things haven't improved by the second half of the season then I won't be happy with Mourinho. At the minute though, it's pre-season and not the time yet for freaking out given the context of the preparation.

 

[minoo-utd]

Will be same as last season. Think if we sign some defender we will be bit better at defending and maybe also at midfield after getting Fred but same full backs no wingers but Alexis so logically we will look like same as previous season with Jose keeping defending and underestimating the tools he has.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

???

That's my point. Why is he playing that position? He's always played an advanced role previously and was pretty much right mid at Valencia last season.

Mourinho likes playing players in unnatural positions.

The last three pre seasons, Mourinho has played him as a holding midfielder.

 

[Art Vandelay]

So we are in a rebuild signing Paul Pogba, Lukaku and Alexis Sanchez level of players but Man City aren’t? Or are Man City still rebuilding considering we both started our rebuild at similar times? Or is it different because they had title winners or does that still not work because we still have title winners from our last league winning squad. Not a quick fix? How long did it take Juventus to do it? It’s not a quick fix because we don’t have a clue what we want as a club. Fergie gave us 25 years of identity and we’ve decided to rip it up.

It’s not pointless I’m just waiting for someone to come with reasonable rationale why what we are currently trying to do has a long term vision.

So you want us to live in the past? We don't have Fergie, there's no one like him around and we can't pretend there is. We don't have a plan, have already sacked two managers and you now want to sack a third to start over again because you don't like him?

City could go and spend £150m on 3 fullbacks because they were ahead of us in their first team. We're still stuck with old wingers because we had to spend elsewhere trying to catch up. Mourinho didn't walk into a team with a De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva we had to start buy essentially a new first team just like City bought essentially a new squad. They also did it before the market went mental and were well used to changing managers, our circumstances weren't exactly ideal for it. We had 25 years of stability and are now having to figure things out again.

You don't want anyone to tell you we have a long term plan, you've already made your mind up.

 

[Mainoldo]

So you want us to live in the past? We don't have Fergie, there's no one like him around and we can't pretend there is. We don't have a plan, have already sacked two managers and you now want to sack a third to start over again because you don't like him?

City could go and spend £150m on 3 fullbacks because they were ahead of us in their first team. We're still stuck with old wingers because we had to spend elsewhere trying to catch up. Mourinho didn't walk into a team with a De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva we had to start buy essentially a new first team just like City bought essentially a new squad. They also did it before the market went mental and were well used to changing managers, our circumstances weren't exactly ideal for it. We had 25 years of stability and are now having to figure things out again.

You don't want anyone to tell you we have a long term plan, you've already made your mind up.

We need a long term plan. I’m happy to accept no one will manage this club for 25 years hell even 10 years. However to operate in this climate we need to insure the philosophy we have runs through the club regardless of the manager. Abit like Barca.. they had Cryuff we’ve had Fergie and busy before that, it’s a winnng formula and I don’t see why it can’t continue. I understand it won’t always be roses and we will go through a lot of duds like Moyes etc however we have to continue to buy Martial’s; develop players through the academy be it Chong or McTomminay and get the best of the best England has to offer. With that we cannot fail and with that the fans will always be behind the club and at the end of the day we are the club.

 

[Art Vandelay]

We need a long term plan. I’m happy to accept no one will manage this club for 25 years hell even 10 years. However to operate in this climate we need to insure the philosophy we have runs through the club regardless of the manager. Abit like Barca.. they had Cryuff we’ve had Fergie and busy before that, it’s a winnng formula and I don’t see why it can’t continue. I understand it won’t always be roses and we will go through a lot of duds like Moyes etc however we have to continue to buy Martial’s; develop players through the academy be it Chong or McTomminay and get the best of the best England has to offer. With that we cannot fail and with that the fans will always be behind the club and at the end of the day we are the club.

We're trying that though, just because we want to develop them doesn't mean every one of them will work out. We've bought young players, we've brought young players through. Some will be great, some will move on. It's also very hard to do when we are trying to catch other teams and the media are actively working against us. Yet Rashford, McTominay and Martial were getting minutes over the last two seasons. They just aren't ready yet to carry us, but they have time. Pereira hopefully will get plenty of minutes this season too.

Martial moving on is sad, but it's not the end of the world. I think the whole thing would be easier for people to swallow if we were bringing in another young player to replace him, but then there is Rashford with Chong and Gomez behind him so maybe they don't see it as necessary. There's also the restructuring of the youth system that's been going on, we're going to have to wait to see if that works out.

 

[Janson]

That's your answer is it? We can forget being good again so we should accept this rubbish or give up?

Maybe you live in a world where people can just change teams when they stop winning, but most genuine fans actually want to stick around and see the team get back to the top.

Most genuine fans don't cry like babies because they aren't entertained.