He played 5 years of his international career under the utter feckwit that is Marc Wilmots and another 5 years under the largely feckwit that is Roberto Martinez. Neither has ever come close to installing a coherent attacking system of play at any point as a coach.
Prime Hazard or Prime Salah?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
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I think recency bias is playing out here in favour of Salah. In terms of numbers there is only one winner but Hazard’s game was based on drawing a lot of attention from opposing players whilst creating space for teammates to exploit. Teams used to have “stop Hazard” as their game strategy.
Football is such a dynamic game that numbers cannot be the deciding factor for me. Prime Hazard ran games single-handedly. You sure cannot argue with Salad’s numbers - they are over the roof - but it you recall, Salah used to play as the furtherest of attackers whilst Firminho would drop very deep and he and Mane have had disagreements as a result of Salah putting his own scoring ahead of the team.
Personally I’d opine that before this season Hazard would get my vote ahead of Salah as I rate him as the best left winger of the last decade. However with the way Salad is going this season - getting to pure world class levels - it would be hard to argue with putting him ahead of Hazard.
My submission.
Football is such a dynamic game that numbers cannot be the deciding factor for me. Prime Hazard ran games single-handedly. You sure cannot argue with Salad’s numbers - they are over the roof - but it you recall, Salah used to play as the furtherest of attackers whilst Firminho would drop very deep and he and Mane have had disagreements as a result of Salah putting his own scoring ahead of the team.
Personally I’d opine that before this season Hazard would get my vote ahead of Salah as I rate him as the best left winger of the last decade. However with the way Salad is going this season - getting to pure world class levels - it would be hard to argue with putting him ahead of Hazard.
My submission.
He's certainly been doing (bacon) bits this season - really taken it to the next level!
Hazard is a beautiful player but Salah is an efficient beast, Salah on his day is one of the best players in the world, is Hazard?
"On his day"? He most certainly was before he retired in Madrid.
Yeah it's Wilmots and Martinez fault for Hazard not performing at International level to a so called world class players standard.
It's not like Belgium are the number 1 ranked team in world football, it's not like they average just under 3 goals a game under Martinez. It's not like they have been going far in tournaments either.
Belgium the poor coherent attacking system struggling to 1-0 wins each game. Poor Eden being held back as normal.
Hazard has been injured for basically the last two seasons, which coincides with Belgium's rise to the top. Also, the whole point of this discussion is that Hazard has never and will never be especially prolific so not sure why you're acting like you've stumbled onto some sort of killer argument here.Yeah it's Wilmots and Martinez fault for Hazard not performing at International level to a so called world class players standard.
It's not like Belgium are the number 1 ranked team in world football, it's not like they average just under 3 goals a game under Martinez. It's not like they have been going far in tournaments either.
Belgium the poor coherent attacking system struggling to 1-0 wins each game. Poor Eden being held back as normal.
It's inarguable that at his apex he was held back by his international managers. And the last time he was properly fit and firing, he was the best player at the WC in 2018.
I feel like if you're making a comparison between both players in general, you simply can't ignore Hazard's terrible record in the CL,
17/18 Salah scored more CL goals than Hazard did in his entire career
17/18 Salah scored more CL goals than Hazard did in his entire career
Huge fan of Hazard. But it's Salah. He is the better player.
He doesn’t want to score. Just like how he never wanted the ballon d’Or
Not to mention those goals actually led to him winning it
How is this a debate? It's Salah and it isn't even close
Salah by miles for me.
Peak? Probably quite close between 2017/18 Salah and 2018/19 Hazard.
Prime? Definitely Salah.
Prime? Definitely Salah.
I often think Hazard is slightly overrated because of how he carried Chelsea through some mediocre times
Salah.
They need to check the water he's drinking. This guy is in supreme condition every single game.
They need to check the water he's drinking. This guy is in supreme condition every single game.
And its valid to favour Salah based on UCL record and thats exactly what I think edges it for him overall but when people cite numbers alone I find that ridiculous. On the same basis Lampard and Gerrard were superior to Iniesta, Xavi and Zidane, Kevin Phillips was superior to Bergkamp....
I mean yeah, Hazard is in my top 3 favourite players of all time. Love the bloke dearly, but Salah is getting up there with Henry in the best player in PL history conversation.
Currently Salah is approaching greatest PL player of all time territory with players like Ronaldo Henry Shearer
Hazard was never close
Hazard was never close
Numbers simply matter a lot more when it comes to attackers I feel.
Never solely for me.
By numbers alone Lukaku is bonafide world class but the eye test says otherwise.
Agree wit this. If Pool win the CL and the Prem, he would go top of that list. He already has the all time goal record for 38 games.
He's a winger though
So were Giggs and Pires.
The latter would have been significantly superior based on numbers alone.
Salah quite comfortably. His numbers are just insane.
Undoubtedly (at least in terms of pure productivity). He played mostly for Conte and Mourinho, both managers who are undeniably pragmatic. His numbers are pretty good as well (bar that one season), when you consider where a lot of his play took place on the pitch and his role it's really weird that he gets judged on a similar basis to Salah. You can watch Hazard and Salah and instantly see their different roles and the positions they take up. Even in the simplest appraisal, it'll be obvious that Hazard spends more time on the ball in terms of dribbling, passing and chance creation, whereas Salah will spend more time running in behind and making a difference in key moments, relatively to the teams they're playing in.
Salah is more like an outside forward while Hazard was more like an attacking midfielder. Both play at similar sides of the pitch but they are very different players. The reason why I wouldn’t just dismiss Hazard has a fair shout for me in this debate is how he dominated the premier league. I know Salah has been very effective, scoring consistently and relentlessly season after season and doing the business quietly but he has never struck me as a player that teams would want to put their whole strategy in nullifying him the way teams did to Hazard.
If it were down to numbers then Salah is the clear winner. Both have written their names in the sands of premier league history, I only hope that players like Sancho would toe that path in the near future.
The thing that blows my mind with Salah is that he is a completely different player to the one we saw at Chelsea and before then, like entirely different in his level of effectiveness.
I know he started to turn it on at Roma before going to Liverpool but I have never seen a player be so night and day different in terms of effectiveness. I'm still waiting for him to return to the player he was back then, with every season I get angrier that he hasn't!
Then again I never really believe Harry Kane is a top player, I always think he will revert to a bang average forward, that's one I got majorly wrong.
I know he started to turn it on at Roma before going to Liverpool but I have never seen a player be so night and day different in terms of effectiveness. I'm still waiting for him to return to the player he was back then, with every season I get angrier that he hasn't!
Then again I never really believe Harry Kane is a top player, I always think he will revert to a bang average forward, that's one I got majorly wrong.
Yeah it's Wilmots and Martinez fault for Hazard not performing at International level to a so called world class players standard.
It's not like Belgium are the number 1 ranked team in world football, it's not like they average just under 3 goals a game under Martinez. It's not like they have been going far in tournaments either.
Belgium the poor coherent attacking system struggling to 1-0 wins each game. Poor Eden being held back as normal.
brilliant sarcasm mate, kudosThey were pretty close at one point. Right down to them sharing the topscorer title in the premier league one season. Mane at his best was amazing.
I think Salah suffered in those comparisons due to Mane steadily ascending to world class levels, whilst Salah descended from Balon D'or level to 'merely' world class. And of course, Salah got called greedy whilst ignoring how good he was (and is) in the buildup and how many assists he gets. Also never really got credit for carrying us through some bad periods for the whole team, scoring goals through sheer perseverance and attacking intensity (last season included).
Last season, Salah was one of the few in our team who kept a high level whilst Mane fell off a cliff. Mane is still recovering, whilst Salah is getting back to Balon D'or levels.
Never thought I'd say this but it's probably prime salah never seen a player not called Messi or Ronaldo be soo consistent
Salah has better end product, footballing terms, he is better.
In the same way that Oscar is superior to KDB, right?
Stylistically, I prefer Mo. I think Salah is vicious in front of goal, he's got the drive, ambition, ego that pushes great players into being god-tier. Hazard was a pretty boy, all bark and no bite. He should have won more given his talent.
Oscar was jettisoned immediately after.
Prime Salah would be a prime hazard for any defender.
Purely based on prime? Maybe Hazard. He is more skillfull and in his prime at least as unstoppable. I do believe Salah is a little bit more one dimensional although he is obviously great.
Obviously judging a whole carreer definitely going for Salah, given he's sustained his level for a longer period of time. At this point I don't see Hazard getting back to that level.
I wonder more, how would people compare Salah to Robben? Sounds like a more appropriate comparison given their position and qualities. As a Dutch definitely still going for Robben, who eventhough he had many injuries had an insane carreer with many extraordenary seasons despite his injuries and did very well basicly everywhere he played.
Obviously judging a whole carreer definitely going for Salah, given he's sustained his level for a longer period of time. At this point I don't see Hazard getting back to that level.
I wonder more, how would people compare Salah to Robben? Sounds like a more appropriate comparison given their position and qualities. As a Dutch definitely still going for Robben, who eventhough he had many injuries had an insane carreer with many extraordenary seasons despite his injuries and did very well basicly everywhere he played.
both quality players, but Salah for me.
Hazard was the player who could take the pall himself and do magic - Salah have done it on some goals but most been still part of amazing teamplay. They are different, both amazing, but different.
Salah and it isn’t close.
Hazard probably had more talent but always felt he could impose himself more on games, even at his peak. Salah is just a relentless force who keeps coming with every attack. A different class.
Hazard probably had more talent but always felt he could impose himself more on games, even at his peak. Salah is just a relentless force who keeps coming with every attack. A different class.