Indeed. I pray we sort out CB. It will change the most in this team I believe.
Priority Signing: CB vs DM vs RW vs Striker
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
How is it different? Rodri is the exact same player he was last season. Why do you think he is having better success protecting Diaz-Stones as opposed to Otamendi-Stones last season?
A thing he, Fernandinho and Gundogan , even employed together failed to do last season?
You are blaming his flaws for last season. Yet this season those supposed flaws are comfortably protecting Stones and Diaz alone. I tell you it isn't coincidence.
Pep was no fool when he bought Diaz, a center back, instead of importing a better 6 than Rodri to fix the goal leakages. Ole would be foolish to do the opposite.
He prioritised a CB because his DMs were fine. Plus because of Laporte's fitness concerns.
Right now as well, Lindelof and Maguire get minimal protection from Fred. The lack of defensive awareness in Fred is what leads to us conceding these many shots.
Not saying a CB isn't important, but a DM solves far more issues than a CB would. Even defensively, if we are to look at the goals conceded this season, atleast 20% could have been avoided if our DM was a tier or two above what we have now
If his DMs were "fine" how come they couldn't stop Otamendi and Stones leaking goals?
I don't see how you can say " they were fine" with a straight face. Then accuse Fred and mcTominay of being "not good enough", whilst suffering in the exact same way with a flawed partnership behind them....
This is probably untrue. Fred and mcTominay have the similar defensive statistics to Declan Rice who everyone seems to love in here.
The fact is Maguire and Lindeloff concede because of Maguire and Lindeloff. 9/10 times. Just like Otamendi and Stones.
A DM solves absolutely nothing with a flawed center back partnership behind it. City proved this already last season.
Same as Pool this season. Once Pool got issues at center half. Even having Fabinho play at 6 was never going to solve the problem. Resultantly it caused problems up and down the whole team.
Even this season for us. The goals we have conceded from open play have been A direct result of how Maguire and Lindeloff together. Not those infront of them.
Counter attack goals conceded are infact proof that a teams dms are lacking. We have conceded 2 all season.
This is why I insist midfield is not the issue. It is center defence.
Ok have it this way - Since the 6-1 loss vs Spurs (and the only reason for excluding the 1st three games is because of fitness issues), how many points have we dropped because of our CBs? I'd say 2 vs WBA because of Lindelof error, another 3 vs SHU (although the 2nd goal was because the DMs didn't close Burke) and that's it. That's 5 points.
Now, having a DM would have meant we didn't need to play McFred, and hence I'm assuming more creativity in midfield. We can easily push higher up by another 10 yards because of the confidence they have in defence. And how many such games were there? Palace (2 points), West Brom (we would have created more so another 2 points), SHU (we should be scoring more than just 1 goal vs them). I'd add Chelsea 0-0 at OT and draw vs Everton on here as well, albeit for contrasting reasons.
As far as stats is concerned, Rice has a much better passing range than Fred and offers something going forward with his late runs.
As far as defensive part is concerned, and you bringing the City example up, they still have a top class DM. Someone who can dictate the pace of the game, someone who is good at passing and cutting off dangerous plays.
Anyways, I dont think we'll come on the same page here, so will leave it here
In fairness I think we're going to have to pick between positions in terms of one defensive plus one attacking improvement. All clearly need improving but we aren't going to be able to sign a quality players in all four positions.
If we improve our defence we will still concede too many goals whilst playing Pogba and Fernandes. If we improve the defensive midfield position, Maguire and Lindelof (even with added protection) still aren't a good enough partnership. In both scenarios we'll still need to combine Fred and McTominay together, or one of them alongside a better defensive midfielder, and drop a more creative player for tough games. This is of course assuming we're looking to play a progressive and attacking game at the same time.
Likewise signing a centre forward without a creative right winger would leave us short in creating chances for them and with a continued and clear attacking deficiency on the right side (which Wan Bissaka doesn't help) making it an easier task for the opposition to defend. Likewise signing a great centre forward but no right winger keeps far too much of the creative burden on Fernandes who is already the focus of stifling opposition tactics.
My view is then we shouldn't have any strict priority in terms of these positions, we should have priorities in terms of players. If Haaland and Ndidi are gettable then you forget about central defence and right wing as these two would be a greater defensive and attacking improvement than would be possible in the other two positions. If Haaland isn't and Sancho is the best attacking improvement then you go with him.
We should be going in to this Summer looking for the best defensive and best attacking improvement available (within budget) across those four areas. Narrowing our options by focusing on specific positions would be the wrong move, given how reliant each position is on other positions.
If we improve our defence we will still concede too many goals whilst playing Pogba and Fernandes. If we improve the defensive midfield position, Maguire and Lindelof (even with added protection) still aren't a good enough partnership. In both scenarios we'll still need to combine Fred and McTominay together, or one of them alongside a better defensive midfielder, and drop a more creative player for tough games. This is of course assuming we're looking to play a progressive and attacking game at the same time.
Likewise signing a centre forward without a creative right winger would leave us short in creating chances for them and with a continued and clear attacking deficiency on the right side (which Wan Bissaka doesn't help) making it an easier task for the opposition to defend. Likewise signing a great centre forward but no right winger keeps far too much of the creative burden on Fernandes who is already the focus of stifling opposition tactics.
My view is then we shouldn't have any strict priority in terms of these positions, we should have priorities in terms of players. If Haaland and Ndidi are gettable then you forget about central defence and right wing as these two would be a greater defensive and attacking improvement than would be possible in the other two positions. If Haaland isn't and Sancho is the best attacking improvement then you go with him.
We should be going in to this Summer looking for the best defensive and best attacking improvement available (within budget) across those four areas. Narrowing our options by focusing on specific positions would be the wrong move, given how reliant each position is on other positions.
Honestly think our CB’s will be fine with Dean in net.
His impact will be transformative. Not because he is a star keeper, but because he does the basics to cover his defenders that DDG does not.
let’s focus higher up and give ourselves room to get rid of the likes of Martial and rest the likes of Rashford.
His impact will be transformative. Not because he is a star keeper, but because he does the basics to cover his defenders that DDG does not.
let’s focus higher up and give ourselves room to get rid of the likes of Martial and rest the likes of Rashford.
I'm torn between DM and a striker.
DM because like the OP mentioned, Matic is past his prime and McFred is not a very good combination long term.
And striker because it's hard to trust that Martial will finally make the big step up we have been awaiting, maybe Cavani will leave and Greenwood has been good in the wings.
That means if Rashford gets injured, we lack good depth.
If there's any way to get Harry Kane in the summer, the club should go all in for him.
But if not, then I think adressing the DM situation is very important.
DM because like the OP mentioned, Matic is past his prime and McFred is not a very good combination long term.
And striker because it's hard to trust that Martial will finally make the big step up we have been awaiting, maybe Cavani will leave and Greenwood has been good in the wings.
That means if Rashford gets injured, we lack good depth.
If there's any way to get Harry Kane in the summer, the club should go all in for him.
But if not, then I think adressing the DM situation is very important.
Why would we be in for a striker when we have three top strikers at the club already, Mason, Rashford and Martial, we play a system with 1 striker, yet we have no first team wingers. We haven't got a starting 11 winger, and haven't signed one in 12 years, yet we are discussing buying a striker.
I agree with you.
Solskjaer will prioritize a CB who is strong in 1v1 situations and it's reported by all the reputable journos that he will do that.
Solskjaer wants to implement a high press as demonstrated by his time at Molde. And to do that he requires a CB who is strong at defending the channels without the aid of the fullback or midfielder. He also requires the CB to be able to hold a high-line, which is something the current starting CBs are weak at, hence Solskjaer playing two combative midfielders to balance things out. But it makes us one dimensional due to the lack of overloads in offensive transition due to, too many players defending rather than attacking, especially against teams who are strong at transitioning play quickly. People then complain that there's no patterns of play and Brendan Rodgers at Leicester has got Leicester playing good football so why can't we, which I'll explain below.
It's true Rodgers has Leicester playing well, but he also has CBs who are better at defending space high up the pitch when being off the ball in comparison to Maguire and Lindelof who are both not the strongest in that regard. So the likes of Soyuncu and Fofana being strong at winning their 1v1 duels in a higher line, allows Rodgers to play on the front foot and sacrifice defensive stability for goals. So when people say, why has Rodgers with a smaller spend got Leicester playing good football? It's because firstly he's a good coach and secondly he's got the correct profile of players in his defense who allow him to play a proactive brand of football.
So I'm gonna judge Solskjaer once he gets the CB that he reportedly has prioritised in the coming window.
You are going to judge Ole once he gets the CB that he prioritised even though the club has already broken the world record to get him the one he prioritised already.
If you go back and look at my posts from the time we signed Maguire and Wan Bissaka. I was probably the only poster on here who questioned the signings of both players due to them not fitting the style of play Solskjaer wanted to implement, which I also went into some detail about.
But now it's time to move on, and not hold that against Solskjaer. And my posts are now geared towards how we can improve the team, regards incomings who fit into Solskjaer's preferred way of playing.
Last edited:
I agree with you too. People see us conceding and automatically assume its our dMS fault. They dont realize the lack of pace of our starting cb pair, and the fact they do the same things when defending causes two major problems:
A no mans land just behind the midfield when we attempt to play front foot football because they are not comfortable with the space in behind them. Allowing opponents to play in pockets or make early crosses in spaces no single defensive minded midfielder can deal with alone. So any time an opposing team gets past the shield, especially at home. We conceded from open play because they are always back tracking in fear.
Plus once they push in midfield, as is naturally their game , two players have to cover for their lack of recovery pace
Then we also all know how having 2 center halves who defend in similar fashion impacts our ability to deal with set pieces
If we had the mix of pace and aggressiveness for example that a Soyoncu or Fofana provide to match what Maguire or Lindeloff offers. We'd be such a different team. At least 3 times as good as we are now
I also think what people fail to acknowledge is that Solskjaer wants to play a particular brand of football which requires high risk. And in such a setup, the CBs will need to defend high up the pitch and the midfield will also have to push up to close the space if the style of play is to be successfully implemented both on the ball and off the ball.
I'd understand if we had a Allegri, Conte, Mourinho etc coaching us, who prefer to keep their defensive structures intact. But under the current coach who has demonstrated over the years that he wants to implement a high pressing, high tempo style of football with intensity, it makes sense to see reports saying that Solskjaer has prioritized a CB who can defend 1v1s in isolation and who is also a commanding figure.
Football fans give their perception on how the game should be played. But it's important to understand what the coach wants to do, as far as stamping his mark on the team. And Solskjaer wanting a CB as a priority signing, gives me hope because I've been critical of the signing of Maguire due to my fellow Yorkshireman not being the best fit for a high tempo, high pressing style. But I'm not holding that against Solskjaer.
The below criteria for a CB reported by The Athletic is what I'm hoping comes to fruition, because it would free players up to cause overloads and provide extra passing options.
I do believe we need a midfielder because I’m sick to death watching Matic being dominated by opposition midfielders but why people still think it has to be a DM. Have you not watch us play? We are playing with double pivot and the way how our double pivot operates doesn’t require specific holding midfielder.
I want to say RW just to see us buy a bloody player for the position, but a proper world class DM would allow us to leave one defensive minded body on the bench (ie no mcfred), which would strengthen us defensively and offensively. I think we’d get the biggest output on both ends of the pitch if we signed a DM.
If we sign a striker and nothing else we’ll still rely on Bruno to be the only creative spark and still need two defensive midfielders to help the defence. Even the best striker in the world relies on service from the midfield.
If we sign a striker and nothing else we’ll still rely on Bruno to be the only creative spark and still need two defensive midfielders to help the defence. Even the best striker in the world relies on service from the midfield.
I am with @Adnan and @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber on this. By all accounts we won't be spending big or going for multiple marque signings this summer. That's the reality of losing out on the best part of £4m match day revenue for the best part of 12 months.
A lot of posters are saying get a CDM to protect Maguire and Lindelof. I look at it another way. Two players with a similar play style, temperament and physicality. Both very good defenders but do not complement each other. A dominant, Physical and fast defender would give us a good 3 to rotate, 4 if you include Axel. More importantly a much better(actually not better but more complementary) CB offers the midfielders more protection to press up higher. A New DM doesn't fix the failings of the Maguire Lindelof partnership. Ideal world we would sign both but I think that is unlikely even in the event of Pogba going, unless we get a CDM in return as part of the deal.
CF, Greenwood wasted on the right, needs a prolonged run of games as a 9 where I believe he will flourish for us at a very high level for years to come.
RW, only my opinion but I don't see any incoming. Amad, chomping at the bit, Pellestri coming back with game time under his belt and potentially a revitalised Lingard do not make this a priority signing.
Fix the defence and you have a really solid base to play a high press, high tempo game.
A lot of posters are saying get a CDM to protect Maguire and Lindelof. I look at it another way. Two players with a similar play style, temperament and physicality. Both very good defenders but do not complement each other. A dominant, Physical and fast defender would give us a good 3 to rotate, 4 if you include Axel. More importantly a much better(actually not better but more complementary) CB offers the midfielders more protection to press up higher. A New DM doesn't fix the failings of the Maguire Lindelof partnership. Ideal world we would sign both but I think that is unlikely even in the event of Pogba going, unless we get a CDM in return as part of the deal.
CF, Greenwood wasted on the right, needs a prolonged run of games as a 9 where I believe he will flourish for us at a very high level for years to come.
RW, only my opinion but I don't see any incoming. Amad, chomping at the bit, Pellestri coming back with game time under his belt and potentially a revitalised Lingard do not make this a priority signing.
Fix the defence and you have a really solid base to play a high press, high tempo game.
So which is the second position you think we may sign someone just out of interest
It's a good question and I believe this summer will be complicated. Lots of froth and vitriol if we don't get business done early but again, I think there are a few key factors to consider for this summer and I don't believe we will get business done early.
1) Covid: Impact pretty much every club across Europe, none are bomb proof. So what is the available cash or budget, does that increase with a few key outgoings
2) The Euro's: Selling clubs who maybe knocking on Europa / Champions League clubs will want to keep their players till after the Euro's to see if value can inflate. Moreso if they don't qualify for Europe. Tottenham are a good example. Let's say they don't qualify for Europe and the likes of Kane / Son agitate for a move. Levy will hold his price no matter what.
3) Pogba: This is the fascinating one for me. Riola making all the usual noises and I believe the balance of power now in their camp. He has one year left on his contract and will United let him walk on a free a second time around ?, I doubt it Again thinking of the Euro's, Riola knows no matter how much piss n wind he spouts publicly, there is A) only a handful of clubs who can afford Pogba, B) Even a smaller pool of clubs he would want to play for. So no doubt he is saying to Pogba, have a good Euro's and we maybe able to secure a move here or a 2 year extension at Utd but you are gone next summer when finances are better. Either way Pogba holds the key to any business we do in the central midfield area I feel. If he does go, Uniteds position will be, Donny has a year at the club, he can step in.
The ideal summer for me would be, an elite tier centre back, not a hot prospect but proven quality at the highest level. Retain Pogba for two years and Cavani for one. If we could strengthen in other areas then maybe a more offensively minded Right Back. Hope to be proved wrong but I don't really see a lot of incomings. If Pogba does go back to Juve, then a swap involving Bentancur and cash for us would not be a bad option I feel.
I think RW is bottom of the list, which I certainly wouldn't have said 6 or 7 months ago.
Forward position is a concern with the way Martial has played this season. Last season looks the outlier for him. With Cavani unlikely to stay, that needs to be our top priority.
Still think Bailly could pair well with either Maguire or Lindelof, but if Ole doesn't see it that way it's time to move Bailly on and bring in yet another CB.
Getting in Rice would change the dynamic of the midfield. Just him in there instead of the double pivot with McFred.
Forward position is a concern with the way Martial has played this season. Last season looks the outlier for him. With Cavani unlikely to stay, that needs to be our top priority.
Still think Bailly could pair well with either Maguire or Lindelof, but if Ole doesn't see it that way it's time to move Bailly on and bring in yet another CB.
Getting in Rice would change the dynamic of the midfield. Just him in there instead of the double pivot with McFred.
DM and it's not even close as far as i'm concerned. An established DM will completely transform our first 11.
A DM allows Pogba and Bruno to both concentrate primarily on playmaking and creating chances, it also means that other team won't double up marking Bruno. This frees up space in the final third for the likes of Rashford & Martial to get goal scoring opportunities.
If we start the next season with Fred and McTominay as our first choice midfield pairing, we will just get more of the same - we'll end up in a top 4 fight, perform decently in Europe and come close to winning a cup. I personally like to see progress and improvement year on year.
If Pogba leaves, then our next priority is another midfielder.
After that ST/CB depending on if we get rid of Cavani/Bailly.
A DM allows Pogba and Bruno to both concentrate primarily on playmaking and creating chances, it also means that other team won't double up marking Bruno. This frees up space in the final third for the likes of Rashford & Martial to get goal scoring opportunities.
If we start the next season with Fred and McTominay as our first choice midfield pairing, we will just get more of the same - we'll end up in a top 4 fight, perform decently in Europe and come close to winning a cup. I personally like to see progress and improvement year on year.
If Pogba leaves, then our next priority is another midfielder.
After that ST/CB depending on if we get rid of Cavani/Bailly.
I think they will either target Sancho again. In hopes to wait to compete for Halaand the following summer
Or sign a striker.
Last edited:
Who are all these people who are voting for RW? We now have Amad, Greenwood, James who can play there. And obviously players like Mata, Rashford etc who can do a job for us if needed in the odd game. Are we saying that Amad was a waste of a signing already then before giving the guy a chance? I don't get this logic at all. Can't we give him a go first before go spending another 50m+.
We literally only have Lindelof n Maguire and then just sicknotes at CB to choose from. Likes of Bailly, Tuanzebe n Jones simply aren't reliable fitness wise. And Lindelof n Maguire are far from perfect as we all know.
I do worry about this fanbase tbh. Anyone who prioritises a winger over a CB this summer is mental. A defensive midfielder fair enough as I think we're badly in need of one of those too but we're not 'that' desperate for a winger now. We have recently signed one and need to see what he can do.
DM, CB n ST are the top 3.
We literally only have Lindelof n Maguire and then just sicknotes at CB to choose from. Likes of Bailly, Tuanzebe n Jones simply aren't reliable fitness wise. And Lindelof n Maguire are far from perfect as we all know.
I do worry about this fanbase tbh. Anyone who prioritises a winger over a CB this summer is mental. A defensive midfielder fair enough as I think we're badly in need of one of those too but we're not 'that' desperate for a winger now. We have recently signed one and need to see what he can do.
DM, CB n ST are the top 3.
Won't happen but still have the slimmest hopes of us getting an experienced CB like Varane & Sancho
CDM, by some distance.
It is the most important position in any team. Think of the importance of Fernandinho, Jorginho/Kante, Fabinho, Kimmich etc.
It is the most important position in any team. Think of the importance of Fernandinho, Jorginho/Kante, Fabinho, Kimmich etc.
I can see your point but on the other hand remembering that with Wan Bissaka at right back the whole right side attack rests on the guy playing there.
In reverse order.
Rashford, I agree he should be able to play there in theory but in the games where he has he seems to have a mental block on doing so. He is effective on the left and can play central but on his performances from the right he can't be our long term wide right first choice.
Mata. If watching Mata over the last god knows how many years doesn't persuade you he can't play there against anyone bar a lower league side in a cup game then I probably can't persuade you but he was too slow to play there when we bought him and he is old and even slower now.
James. He was awful on the right last season. He has recovered a little and might be worth keeping as a back up but we won't beat the sides that sit deep or win anything if he plays as first choice.
Greenwood. He is a center forward. He can't play on the right and through the middle at the same time. So if he is playing on the right we will be playing Martial as center forward because Cavani is injured a lot and might be buggering off next season any way. That is a hard pass from me and probably anyone who has watched Martial this season.
Amad. So in reality this is the only player on the list who might actually be a Utd winger in ability and pace and talent. Yes he could be the answer but given the lad has been here since Christmas and hardly played I don't think it is out of the question that he isn't ready yet and won't be for the start of next season.
So in reality we will risk next season on a young player one way or another because we won't be improving all the areas we need. I have a fancy for bringing in Hannibal Mejbri as a center mid next year. I think he would make a world of difference there and I hope he gets some game time back end of this season to show what he can do. I might change my mind by the end of the season but if we are not getting Haaland and I don't think we will then Sancho is the obvious choice as he can play left or right and that gives us some badly needed options and balance as we are all down the left at the moment.
I voted RW, because James isn't good enough and Greenwood is a striker. Diallo should take James' place in the squad. Martial, Lingard and James should all be sold, Mata shouldn't get a contract extension.
Do you not worry about the lack of experience and suitability in those options on the RW
Totally agree
Sounds nuts but convinced we will only get one if Pogba leaves in which case we would need to instead target a DLP who has quality on the ball like a Neves rather than a pure destroyer like Ndidi
Amad is the only RW on the books. Everyone else's preferred position is Striker or LW.
Yes of course we need a quality striker, CDM, and pacey CB, but we NEED a RW
.
Yes of course we need a quality striker, CDM, and pacey CB, but we NEED a RW
.I think Maguire -Lindelof have conceded about 8 goals in open play this PL season. That’s very few. Some of them could have been avoided with better protection from the midfield, some not.
So should we prioritise the CB/CDM in this window in your opinion then
We have been very solid in defence for some time now. But, we only have two reliable CBs, which is unacceptable. We need one more who can stay fit. It’s enough if his level is good enough for rotation and as backup. “Telles level”.
CDM is more critical. Fred is energetic but relatively poor defensively and offers too little creativity when we dominate matches and lose possession to often.
But for me a striker is what should be prioritised.
Maybe we will go down the Milenkovic route and sign someone like Neto on the RW, in regards to a ST can only see another stopgap option like maybe Ings if Cavani does leave and hope Haaland is still on the market next summer. Pretty convinced that CDM only comes into the clubs thinking if we sell Pogba but look at more of a DLP who is confident on the ball.
Martial has been terrible this season.
Rashford isn't a striker and every time he's played there for the last two seasons he's basically spent the entire time doing nothing but trying to run in behind the defenders. He's provided no hold-up play, nothing in the build-up and doesn't even attempt to win anything in the air.
Mason it's debateable which position is his best and whether he's ready to be a main striker. He's generally struggled to get involved whenever he plays there and ends up moving out to the right wing anyway.
I think we really need a striker, someone who can score goals on crosses both in the air and along the ground. Someone like Cavani a few years ago. When everything works, we have been scoring plenty of goals, but we have been struggling as well. Our total amount of goals fool some people that we don’t have problems but in more than half of our matches we have been scoring one goal or none goal. (In 29 PL matches we have 7 matches without scoring and 8 matches where we only scored one goal.)
A defensive midfielder with play maker abilities would be a dream of course. I have no clue who is available.
CDM unless we can get Haaland
What Pogba decides to do is probably going to have a big impact. I don’t see how we can let him go into his final year. If he stays, we can sign a defensive midfielder and probably try to offload Fred to raise funds.
I know it won’t happen as we don’t tend to be ruthless with sales, but we can quickly raise funds by selling Fred, Lingard and Martial. Dortmund may considering selling Sancho for around £80 million, which should be mostly covered by those three sales.
I know it won’t happen as we don’t tend to be ruthless with sales, but we can quickly raise funds by selling Fred, Lingard and Martial. Dortmund may considering selling Sancho for around £80 million, which should be mostly covered by those three sales.
Might need some new coaches first before we bring more players in to ruin. Been a long time we bought a player in who has played better for us than their previous club.....