Pro Cycling 2020 **Giro d'Italia 2020 **

Rams

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Did he wish injure on Jakobsen or deliberately wanted to injure him the way he did? No, of course not.

Should he have reasonably realized that he could potentially murder Jakobsen by doing what he did? Yes. I find it disgusting that people (not necessarily you) are shifting blame away from Groenewegen. Own up and take responsibility for your actions. He knew, or definitely should've known at the least, what the disastrous consequences could be. Irresponsible behavior at its best.

Also strongly disagree that it's difficult to stay balanced on a bike at 80km/h. And strongly disagree that he "misjudged the situation". He judged it perfectly and executed what he wanted to do. He didn't just close the door but gave him an elbow and pushed him into the gates ffs. Jakbosen wasn't "coming up" at all, he was already leveled with him.
staying balanced at 80kmh in a stressful & chaotic sprint is easy? You really have no idea what you’re talking about..

Let me first be clear, Groenewegen is 100% responsible for the accident. But Groenewegen isn’t responsible for macho the win at all costs mentality and is not responsible for the lack of penalizing for dangerous manoeuvres in sprints. The incident yesterday was a tragedy waiting to happen. Groenewegen will be absolutely devastated by his actions, wouldn’t suprise me if he retires after this.
 

RobinLFC

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staying balanced at 80kmh in a stressful & chaotic sprint is easy? You really have no idea what you’re talking about..
Sprinters usually have no trouble whatsoever staying upright if they aren't pushed in the gates, no. Anyway I'm done talking about it. I disagree with pretty much everything you're saying on the subject, so let's agree to just disagree.
 

Rams

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Sprinters usually have no trouble whatsoever staying upright if they aren't pushed in the gates, no. Anyway I'm done talking about it. I disagree with pretty much everything you're saying on the subject, so let's agree to just disagree.
Staying up right is one thing, keeping balance another. Riders are continuously elbowing and pushing each other in the peleton, not just during the sprints or their lead-ups. And crashes are more than common especially during the sprints!!!! Happens all the time.

Anyway, let’s indeed agree to disagree.
 

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It was a stupid and dangerous move from Groenewegen, with clear and deliberate intentions of stopping someone coming through. The barrier setup from the event organisers was farcical considering it was a downhill finish, and the UCI needs to review the safety measures.
 

Ainu

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staying balanced at 80kmh in a stressful & chaotic sprint is easy? You really have no idea what you’re talking about..

Let me first be clear, Groenewegen is 100% responsible for the accident. But Groenewegen isn’t responsible for macho the win at all costs mentality and is not responsible for the lack of penalizing for dangerous manoeuvres in sprints. The incident yesterday was a tragedy waiting to happen. Groenewegen will be absolutely devastated by his actions, wouldn’t suprise me if he retires after this.
I agree that other riders have done similar things during a sprint, it's not just Groenewegen. However, it was known beforehand how exceptionally fast and dangerous this particular sprint would be. If you then still do something like this, risking the lives of your fellow competitors and potentially roadside staff, you're out of excuses. It was not just a "normal" sprint incident, he really made sure Jakobsen went completely into the barriers. What went before was bad enough but that elbow at the end just makes the entire thing unforgivable. And of course he has a reputation. Taking all of those things into account, I'd say this is one of the worst offences I've ever seen in a race.

Having said that, the organisation has a huge responsibility as well. The combination of that sprint and those ridiculous barriers is unacceptable. How is this shit still happening in 2020? How are these setups getting approved? It's clearly not good enough. Edit: I read somewhere that the fact there are no people leaning on the barriers might have played a role as well. I'm not sure, the barriers just look way too light, you can see them flying around. But I guess it can also be a factor.
 
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Skåre Willoch

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I think Groenewegen should definitely be banned for many, many years, possibly life. Disgusting move. No way to defend it, really. It is, at the very best brutally reckless, but even then he should be held responsible and not be given benefit of the doubt. A potentially career ending move for both, and life altering for Jakobsen.

They should also definitely do something about the barriers. I don't understand how they're not designed to absorb a lot more of the energy and protect the cyclists as much as they possibly can. In this case they seemed to be doing a lot more harm than good, really.

Tragic stuff. Hope for a speedy recovery for Jakobsen, and a fairytale comeback in the olympics or something.
 

Rams

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I agree that other riders have done similar things during a sprint, it's not just Groenewegen. However, it was known beforehand how exceptionally fast and dangerous this particular sprint would be. If you then still do something like this, risking the lives of your fellow competitors and potentially roadside staff, you're out of excuses. It was not just a "normal" sprint incident, he really made sure Jakobsen went completely into the barriers. What went before was bad enough but that elbow at the end just makes the entire thing unforgivable. And of course he has a reputation. Taking all of those things into account, I'd say this is one of the worst offences I've ever seen in a race.

Having said that, the organisation has a huge responsibility as well. The combination of that sprint and those ridiculous barriers is unacceptable. How is this shit still happening in 2020? How are these setups getting approved? It's clearly not good enough. Edit: I read somewhere that the fact there are no people leaning on the barriers might have played a role as well. I'm not sure, the barriers just look way too light, you can see them flying around. But I guess it can also be a factor.
 

RobinLFC

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They're two separate issues. You can both think that Groenewegen is a fecking idiot and there wasn't enough protection. People going on about the UCI and organization's obligation to protect the riders are diverting attention away from the real issue here, i.e. that nothing would've happened if Groenewegen had stayed in his own lane.
 

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Yeah I'd seen that clip as well. Sagan's move was terrible as well, probably deserved a heavier sanction, although that sprint was not quite as dangerous and fast as this one. The barriers though, what a difference. Still, you can see all of those people leaning on them, giving it extra weight and stability. I wonder how much of a difference it would've made yesterday. The barriers were not good enough regardless.
 

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The video from above really shows clearly that Groenewegen is 100% at fault. Aside from that, how the feck is this sprint setup allowed it looks insanely dangerous. Not into cycling so Im a bit oblivious, but it's a miracle there arent more fatalities if you ask me.
 

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Seems Jakobsen is doing well considering the circumstances, it's going to be a long way back either way but at least it seems like a full recovery is a possibility. After such a crash, that's all you can ask for.

Milan-San Remo tomorrow, I'm looking forward to the final. Don't really care for the first 270-280 odd kilometers, they're usually as boring as a flat grand your stage. But as soon as they near the Poggio, it's going to get interesting. The heat is going to make this a lot tougher than normal editions so I'm expecting (and hoping for) a select group to break away on the Poggio. Van Aert will surely be there in the final, I don't see anyone dropping him in his current form and I also don't really see many riders outsprinting him after a long, tough race. He gets my vote but out of all 5 monuments, Milan-San Remo is always the hardest to predict. If the sprinters aren't dropped Démare looks a strong candidate for a second MSR victory.
 

RobinLFC

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We’re putting the TV outside tomorrow and follow it at the pool with some cold beers. Gonna be good :cool:

Rooting for Gilbert to win all 5 monuments, if he focuses on something he’s always good so he’s going to be close I think. If not him, I’m hoping Van Aert again.

Need to take a look at the new parcours first though. I know it’s changed a but not exactly what they altered.
 

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Only need to watch from the Poggio really. My heart says Gilbert, but head says Bettiol for the win.
 

Ainu

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Only need to watch from the Poggio really. My heart says Gilbert, but head says Bettiol for the win.
Does Bettiol have any sort of sprint? I imagine he'd have to drop everyone on the Poggio and stay away Nibali-style. That's a big ask.
 

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Hell yes Van Aert! He did it again! His first monument. First (real) Belgian MSR winner since 1981 or something. What a man. What a fantastic final.
 

RobinLFC

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Delirium. This is UNREAL. fecking love this guy.

Giving the big finger to the previous winner who wouldn’t take over in the last kilometre. This is just absolutely crazy.
 

Ainu

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Delirium. This is UNREAL. fecking love this guy.

Giving the big finger to the previous winner who wouldn’t take over in the last kilometre. This is just absolutely crazy.
Nothing against Alaphilippe, he's a fantastic rider and I generally love his attacking style. He rightly feared Van Aert's sprint, can't blame him. How strong is Alaphilippe's sprint after a tough race btw? We saw it last year and now again. He is a brilliant talent.

But fortunately for us, we have our own phenomenal talent. :D To win it like this, as top favourite, without much team support, it's unreal. Strade Blanche and Milan San Remo in one week, just let that sink in.
 

RobinLFC

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Nothing against Alaphilippe, he's a fantastic rider and I generally love his attacking style. He rightly feared Van Aert's sprint, can't blame him. How strong is Alaphilippe's sprint after a tough race btw? We saw it last year and now again. He is a brilliant talent.

But fortunately for us, we have our own phenomenal talent. :D To win it like this, as top favourite, without much team support, it's unreal. Strade Blanche and Milan San Remo in one week, just let that sink in.
Yeah sure, I love Alaphilippe too! We'll have to see how he gets out of the Tour but at the moment, i'ts hard to see who's gonna stop him in the Ardennen classics this year.

Evenepoel is indeed not human by the way. You'd have to think it's crazy to finish top 10, let alone podium in your first grand tour, but hard to bet against him at this point. He's just better than everyone else :lol:
 

RobinLFC

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Some well-informed Swiss journalist apparently, claiming that the WC will be cancelled because of the spike in cases in and around Geneva.
 

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Van Aert just won the first stage of the Dauphiné, an uphill finish. He is unstoppable. What a phenomenal run of form for him.
 

RobinLFC

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Van Aert just won the first stage of the Dauphiné, an uphill finish. He is unstoppable. What a phenomenal run of form for him.
Yeah, fecking hell :lol: Riding for Jumbo-Visma obviously helps in this sort of stages but still, doing that at 77kg against Bernal with his 60kg, seriously impressive. I think Van Aert is a clear favourite for the green jersey in the upcoming years with Sagan regressing a bit, but I doubt they're gonna allow him to go for it at Jumbo, understandably.

Also proven today that Valverde isn't what he used to be a few years ago. He'd have demolished everyone on an arrival like this imo.
 

Ainu

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Yeah, fecking hell :lol: Riding for Jumbo-Visma obviously helps in this sort of stages but still, doing that at 77kg against Bernal with his 60kg, seriously impressive. I think Van Aert is a clear favourite for the green jersey in the upcoming years with Sagan regressing a bit, but I doubt they're gonna allow him to go for it at Jumbo, understandably.

Also proven today that Valverde isn't what he used to be a few years ago. He'd have demolished everyone on an arrival like this imo.
If they'd let him go for green this year, I don't see how anyone could stop him, but like you say it's not going to happen. I don't mind, to be honest. Riding for Jumbo is clearly the best thing that ever happened to him (in a professional sense) so I'm perfectly happy to see him supporting their GC riders in the Tour - and I'm sure he is as well. In one-day races, he's untouchable as their main man and that's the most important thing for me.

But man, is there anything he can't do? Time trial, sprint, descending, he's world class or excellent in those disciplines. He's now proving himself to be a strong climber or at least puncher as well. And then there's the small matter of 3 elite cyclo-cross world championships. I don't even know what type of rider he is anymore. I used to think P-R and Ronde van Vlaanderen would be his main targets but with his strengths all 5 monuments are a realistic target. And he could definitely contend for points jerseys in grand tours, plus even a world title time trial isn't unthinkable.

When is the last time you've ever seen such a versatile rider? Everyone expected van der Poel to be that rider but Van Aert is proving them all wrong.
 

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If they'd let him go for green this year, I don't see how anyone could stop him, but like you say it's not going to happen. I don't mind, to be honest. Riding for Jumbo is clearly the best thing that ever happened to him (in a professional sense) so I'm perfectly happy to see him supporting their GC riders in the Tour - and I'm sure he is as well. In one-day races, he's untouchable as their main man and that's the most important thing for me.

But man, is there anything he can't do? Time trial, sprint, descending, he's world class or excellent in those disciplines. He's now proving himself to be a strong climber or at least puncher as well. And then there's the small matter of 3 elite cyclo-cross world championships. I don't even know what type of rider he is anymore. I used to think P-R and Ronde van Vlaanderen would be his main targets but with his strengths all 5 monuments are a realistic target. And he could definitely contend for points jerseys in grand tours, plus even a world title time trial isn't unthinkable.

When is the last time you've ever seen such a versatile rider? Everyone expected van der Poel to be that rider but Van Aert is proving them all wrong.
If he can do all that, couldn't he try for the Tour, Vuelta, or Giro eventually as well? Jumbo obviously doesn't mind having several contestants, so maybe they'll be open to seeing if Van Aert can compete with Dumoulin, Kruiswijk, and Roglic? (In another year, cause clearly Van Aert isn't building his season towards that sort of thing now.)
 

Ainu

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If he can do all that, couldn't he try for the Tour, Vuelta, or Giro eventually as well? Jumbo obviously doesn't mind having several contestants, so maybe they'll be open to seeing if Van Aert can compete with Dumoulin, Kruiswijk, and Roglic? (In another year, cause clearly Van Aert isn't building his season towards that sort of thing now.)
No I don't believe that. Punch climbs are one thing, high mountains another thing altogether. He's not built for that at all, he'd pretty much have to change everything about his cycling career so far, which seems like a huge risk when it's working so well right now. He'll stay focused on the one-day classics and perhaps the green jersey at some point.
 

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No I don't believe that. Punch climbs are one thing, high mountains another thing altogether. He's not built for that at all, he'd pretty much have to change everything about his cycling career so far, which seems like a huge risk when it's working so well right now. He'll stay focused on the one-day classics and perhaps the green jersey at some point.
Right, yeah, makes sense.
 

RobinLFC

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Nice finish today in the Dauphiné with the Col de Porte, 17.5km at 6.2%. Expect Roglic and Bernal to be on their game, or at least they should be. Bernal can silence the critics once and for all (until the Tour starts) with a decisive display today.

They also do this mountain in the Tour, in the 16th stage, but from the other side.
 

Ainu

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Be a brave man to bet against Van Bernal(ert) in the Tour. My man, got this in the bag.
Strange conclusion after today's stage and the Tour de l'Ain the other week. Roglic is the stronger rider at the moment. Bernal might still prove the better rider in the coming weeks but on recent evidence that's certainly not a given.
 

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Strange conclusion after today's stage and the Tour de l'Ain the other week. Roglic is the stronger rider at the moment. Bernal might still prove the better rider in the coming weeks but on recent evidence that's certainly not a given.
Poking fun, mate. I trust in the little man. You just wait and see.
 

RobinLFC

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I like Bernal, but it’s refreshing to see Ineos break like that. Feck the lot of them, and let someone from Jumbo-Visma win the Tour. Preferably Dumoulin but Roglic will do.

Just hoping he hasn’t peaked too early like in the Giro last year.
 

Ainu

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My god, that tumble into the ravine by Evenepoel. Still waiting for news, we don't even know he's survived it. Please be good news!

Edit: report by the organisation that he hasn't lost consciousness, so that's already huge! No further news about injuries.
 

RobinLFC

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This better not be bad news. And I don't even mean an injury here or there, don't care about that after you saw that. I can't take another life-threatening injury anymore, but at least it seems like he's conscious.
 

RobinLFC

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Fecking Italians with their sensation. Those are images that really don’t need to be shown.

But it looked deep and right into some sort of river bedding full of stones and rock formations :(
 

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Fecking Italians with their sensation. Those are images that really don’t need to be shown.

But it looked deep and right into some sort of river bedding full of stones and rock formations :(
I'll never forget those live images of Wouter Weylandt lying on the tarmac, head all awkward with blood pouring out of it. There's something disturbingly wrong with those Italian organisations.
 

RobinLFC

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I'll never forget those live images of Wouter Weylandt lying on the tarmac, head all awkward with blood pouring out of it. There's something disturbingly wrong with those Italian organisations.
Same here yeah.


Better and better news coming through, luckily.