Protest at Old Trafford

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I read a pretty balanced piece by one journo, well capturing all the complaints people have, but also putting over the fact that the Glazers are the ones who have seen our value and income sky rocket.
Nothing is ever totally good or bad, but some fans seem unable to understand that.

It is worrying how much the club is worth now. You either have an even more ruthless money machine come in - which is either birth right families who may well have a questionable regime, or it comes from a huge businessman who has crushed millions of little people to get that money.
But businessmen who have made that money have done so for a reason, and aren't in the habit of just lashing money into something without gain.

The other option is to have a "collective" of individuals of high wealth. But the Red Knights tried that strategy, but quickly found they had nowhere near the resources , even pooled together.

Not really sure I buy that first point. Man Utd have always and will always be an absolutely massive club with a global fan base. That means it’s fairy easy to brand and market the club. That’s particularly true when it’s based on the kind of recent success we had under Fergie when the Glaziers arrived. It’s pure conjecture but I imagine if we were stats owned over the same period then we would have seen players like Kane, Mbappe, potentially even Neymar or Ronaldo at the club which would only have increased the brand value as we continued to flourish. The glaziers have good business acumen but then most of the people with this level of wealth have that to some degree so I think it’s a fairly easy myth that is peddled out to offer them support.

 

[Raven]

? Because I disagree with a disorganised rabble walking around the pitch taking selfies, throwing beer cans and wrecking equipment?

My political leanings have absolutely nothing to do with seeing a bunch of pissed kids essentially dilute what was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make a REAL statement.

Those fans that got on the pitch messed it up... for all the news coverage, there isn’t a single screenshot / clip which truly shows what the message should have been.

Literally everyone knows what these protests are about. I certainly didn't need a banner to tell me what it was about. Getting on the pitch and creating enough hassle that they have to postpone a match is far more powerful a message than a couple of banners being waved around.

 

[Siorac]

thanks.

"#MUFC have paid £209m in last 5 years to fund Glazers’ ownership structure: £120m interest plus £89m dividends. In fact, in last 10 years they spent an extraordinary £838m on financing: £488m interest, £251m debt repayments & £99m dividends. Took out £140m loan since year-end."



Thats pretty insane, considering that only Kroenke seems to do the same, but on a smaller level (~100m during the last 5 years).

So that's 18m per year on dividends in the last 5 years. Now, while that is exactly 18m per year more than what the Glazers deserve for their work at United, it still highlights the problem: namely, that any potential owner who is looking for a return on investment is likely to be not much different to the Glazers.

I mean it's what, a 4bn investment at this point? With 20m a year in dividends, you're looking at 200 years to break even. So our options are becoming a vanity/sportswashing project or there's the impossible dream, that a few thousand passionate and dedicated fans put up the money somehow. And it's hard to see that happening. Or, of course, there's the third option: another leveraged buyout by a different Glazer family.

I agree with the protests - I'm just very pessimistic about what will happen even if they turn out to be successful.

 

[Counterfactual]

I wonder if the Glazers aren't currently confused by the ingratitude of fans?

Where are we in the league? 2nd = "top 4 trophy achieved". Check.
What about cups? One foot in the "Champions Europa League" final. Check.
What about the manager? Legend doing a smiley job. Check.
Ed Woodward? Leaving. Fans happy. Check.
Super League? Shares jumped 9% on the news! Check. (slight presentational issue)
Old Trafford? Directors seats are comfy enough. Check.
Club valuation since we took over? Skyrocketed. £0.8b to £3b. Check.

 

[Drainy]

Funny watching the same people who harboured the atmosphere of rebellion against the ESL now circling the wagons because the fan anger is no longer being pointed in the direction that is useful to them.

Its the same type of unethical greed that makes the ESL wrong that makes the Glazer ownership wrong.

 

[Withnail]

Not really sure I buy that first point. Man Utd have always and will always be an absolutely massive club with a global fan base. That means it’s fairy easy to brand and market the club. That’s particularly true when it’s based on the kind of recent success we had under Fergie when the Glaziers arrived. It’s pure conjecture but I imagine if we were stats owned over the same period then we would have seen players like Kane, Mbappe, potentially even Neymar or Ronaldo at the club which would only have increased the brand value as we continued to flourish. The glaziers have good business acumen but then most of the people with this level of wealth have that to some degree so I think it’s a fairly easy myth that is peddled out to offer them support.

The Glazers and Woodward started this whole having a partner for everything and individual sponsors for everything which absolutely increased revenue and the value of the club to the point now where it's practically unsellable.

I was reading recently that Arsenal screwed themselves with their new stadium back in the day because they had one sponsorship deal for the whole thing. Then the Glazers came in and had different sponsors for the dugout seats etc etc

 

[big rons sovereign]

Coppers being coppers. 'Stop resisting' accompanied by a flurry of blows, seems to be the mantra these days. Back in the day, we'd see this on a weekly basis at away games only then, the beatings took place either inside the black maria or when they opened the doors at the cop shop. I suppose if mobiles had been available then, you'd see some pretty horrendous footage.

I've seen plenty at protests and marches.

 

[hungrywing]

The person who does these letters to the Glazers on behalf of MUST.. who would that be?

A lawyer or an every day fan?

Like this one?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The Glazers and Woodward started this whole having a partner for everything and individual sponsors for everything which absolutely increased revenue and the value of the club to the point now where it's practically unsellable.

I was reading recently that Arsenal screwed themselves with their new stadium back in the day because they had one sponsorship deal for the whole thing. Then the Glazers came in and had different sponsors for the dugout seats etc etc

If that’s true then fair enough that has made a big difference. I still imagine it would have come about regardless of them because other sports tend to do that which makes it a no brainer, but yeh credit to them for being a front runner.

 

[TheReligion]

@TheReligion - i'm actually curious. Are there rules/laws that allow the Police to beat a man on the floor like that? Or given that its on footage would the policeman get reprimanded for it?

You can use whatever reasonable force you like to some degree providing it's proportionate, lawful and necessary. It's down to you to justify it in line with the above.

In that clip it seems difficult to be able to do that however I've seen strikes on the floor being legitimate depending on circumstances.

 

[acrebo]

Literally everyone knows what these protests are about. I certainly didn't need a banner to tell me what it was about. Getting on the pitch and creating enough hassle that they have to postpone a match is far more powerful a message than a couple of banners being waved around.

Well obviously, let’s not be pedantic. My point is that the “pitch invasion” should have also resulted in a message being delivered - a single ‘photo opportunity’, for want of a better phrase, which would send a much more ‘mature’ and deliberate message around the football world than a bunch of lads strolling around looking pleased for themselves that they managed to step foot on the pitch.

Initially, I thought that getting on to the pitch was an intentional progression from the Carrington protest: a way of reiterating that “this is OUR club - our training ground, our team, our Old Trafford”. I appreciate that ‘a couple banners’ in isolation are pretty pointless, but a planned statement laid across the hallowed Old Trafford turf would have been even bigger (alongside the demonstrations outside the ground and the Lowry).

The fact that not a lot happened on the pitch makes me think it was just opportunistic.

As a group of supporters protesting against our owners, we will never again get the chance to demonstrate on the actual pitch. That’s why I think more should have been done with the opportunity.

 

[Withnail]

I've seen plenty at protests and marches.

I just thought that's how arrests were done when things turned violent.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

My point about his nationality is clear as day. Poland has experienced big and significant protests because their government have tried to put rules in place and run their country as if we're in the middle ages. If you live there, you'd know what I mean and I'd expect he does, so I tried to make a comparison close to home. Sometimes it works for people better than trying to overturn their sanctimonious point-of-view.

On the topic of MUFC, our 'football government' at Manchester United has been skimming the financial cream off this club for years, underinvesting and running us as a joke of an organisation, be it a football club or a business, and they should expect retaliation. The fans tried being nice, they tried discussions and these arseholes want to continue what they've been doing by running their PR machine with transfers rumours, pulling the wool over the fans' eyes and trying to convince them we're actually progressing, while running us as if we are some sort of a rich Brighton or Bournemouth.

On the second point, the guy hasn't got a point because this lovey-dovey bullshit a few of the people on here are spilling might as well be manna from heaven for the American leeches. Historically, you just don't get stuff done if you are just singing and holding hands together.

This nihillistic attitude of the poster (and others on here) would have us still seeding the fields for the barrons and dukes of the aristocracy in the current day. And yes, I do think stuff like today will damage the Glazers. In the eyes of the sponsors, in the eyes of the stock market, in the eyes of any other people who would want to partner with the club. It's not supposed to work if it's a one-off event but it's supposed to be a start of a movement. It might fail but it doesn't mean just chanting how much fans love Ole is the way to get change.

You (and others) are just too blinkered to see the bigger picture and how this disruption, be it somewhat over-the-top manner, might help the club in the long-term. It would lower our price as an asset, making us easier to sell, because there'll be a bigger pool of buyers. This also expands the pool of potential buyers.

Well it's nice to be lectured by someone who knows and understands an issue better than anyone else who disagrees with him and yet......... OTHER people have a "sanctimonious" point of view.........ok.

I was making the point that the guy's nationality or place of residence has no bearing on whether he is right or wrong on this topic and yes, I am well aware of the situation in Poland (probably more than you) but it's not relevant.

It is not about "damaging" the Glazers. They have very thick skin. They will probably only sell for financial reasons and yesterday hasn't changed that landscape....yet.

Unless, we all stop our Sky TV subscriptions, stop going to matches and putting pennies in their pockets then repeats of yesterday will not change anything though take note-the police will be better prepared next time.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[big rons sovereign]

I just thought that's how arrests were done when things turned violent.

Depends on the size of the riot I suppose, the big ones in London where they drive into the crowd with vans then send in the horses and smash everybody over the head.
That shits scary.
But the guys on that video are just thugs in uniform. There's no justification for hitting him like that, he's already fully restrained.
Maybe he saw that his dick was longer than half an inch and became incandescent with envious rage.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The person who does these letters to the Glazers on behalf of MUST.. who would that be?

A lawyer or an every day fan?

Ian Stirling isn't it?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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Most of the ones causing damage weren't even wearing masks.

 

[Raven]

Well obviously, let’s not be pedantic. My point is that the “pitch invasion” should have also resulted in a message being delivered - a single ‘photo opportunity’, for want of a better phrase, which would send a much more ‘mature’ and deliberate message around the football world than a bunch of lads strolling around looking pleased for themselves that they managed to step foot on the pitch.

Initially, I thought that getting on to the pitch was an intentional progression from the Carrington protest: a way of reiterating that “this is OUR club - our training ground, our team, our Old Trafford”. I appreciate that ‘a couple banners’ in isolation are pretty pointless, but a planned statement laid across the hallowed Old Trafford turf would have been even bigger (alongside the demonstrations outside the ground and the Lowry).

The fact that not a lot happened on the pitch makes me think it was just opportunistic.

As a group of supporters protesting against our owners, we will never again get the chance to demonstrate on the actual pitch. That’s why I think more should have been done with the opportunity.

The point of protests is to call attention to injustice and I've always felt that when real emotion is on display it's far more powerful. Not all protests are an arts and crafts session followed by a stroll.

The most famous example of this (that I can think of) is the the stone wall riots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

 

[Mickeza]

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There’s nothing wrong with taking action against those who broke the law but that statement is exceptionally poor. To just say we remain committed to the same communication channels two weeks after they signed up to a new league without any fecking consultation is insane. Completely tone deaf from the club and offers nothing consolatory.

 

[Tincanalley]

They were part of the protest yesterday, I think.

And I generally agree with this approach. If we just blindly protest and don't show willingness to engage the Glazers, they'll be seen as obstructionist. We know the Glazers won't engage but the wider public might not know not realise this.

By allowing the Glazers to keep acting arrogantly in an open and public forum, you expose them for their greed and lack of engagement with fans. This is a far more mature and clever way of achieving and implementing change.

Meanwhile, keep the pressure up and don't let them relax. Don't prove them right by buying shirts or any other merchandise. Don't buy anything from sponsors and if asked why, say it's because of the Glazers.

Thumbs up to this. Keep the pressure up.

 

[croadyman]

Talksport doing a number on anyone criticising The Glazers right now

Knew that would be the case because it doesn't suit the media narrative of how much those yankee scum bag leeches have spent particularly being peddled by them, Jenas & Souness, have rang into the show in the past but no point doing it when they have made their minds up on the matter and wouldn't be able to keep myself in check. Goldstein should also remember he's a Utd fan too and not be more concerned about keeping his job with two different people but he will definitely toe the line.

 

[diarm]

They were part of the protest yesterday, I think.

And I generally agree with this approach. If we just blindly protest and don't show willingness to engage the Glazers, they'll be seen as obstructionist. We know the Glazers won't engage but the wider public might not know not realise this.

By allowing the Glazers to keep acting arrogantly in an open and public forum, you expose them for their greed and lack of engagement with fans. This is a far more mature and clever way of achieving and implementing change.

Meanwhile, keep the pressure up and don't let them relax. Don't prove them right by buying shirts or any other merchandise. Don't buy anything from sponsors and if asked why, say it's because of the Glazers.

Good post. I thought that letter was an excellent move by MUST this morning.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

There’s talk of a points deduction floating around Twitter via the garbage papers. Will be interesting to see where this goes and how much weight it has when you see other fan groups attacking team buses and nothing coming of it.

 

[Sandikan]

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Makes more sense than a door just happening to be open.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

There’s talk of a points deduction floating around Twitter via the garbage papers. Will be interesting to see where this goes and how much weight it has when you see other fan groups attacking team buses and nothing coming of it.

Henry Winter said it's unlikely.

 

[Sandikan]

There’s talk of a points deduction floating around Twitter via the garbage papers. Will be interesting to see where this goes and how much weight it has when you see other fan groups attacking team buses and nothing coming of it.

I'm hoping the lack of a re-arranged date so far is just because of the difficulty of having to move another team's game and arrange police/tv etc, plus the socials blackout.

 

[predator]

and cops beating supporters is totally fine?

DI Steve Arnott will be all over this.

 

[711]

The point of protests is to call attention to injustice and I've always felt that when real emotion is on display it's far more powerful. Not all protests are an arts and crafts session followed by a stroll.

The most famous example of this (that I can think of) is the the stone wall riots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

Strange you should mention stroll, as I would also cite the mass trespasses that were needed to secure the 'right to roam' in England, famously 400 people on Kinder Scout in 1932, and lesser known but much larger, the Winter Hill and Darwen Moor battles of 1896, where 10,000 and more marched to force access on successive Sundays. I shall be on Winter Hill to commemorate the 125th anniversary of that this September.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[hubbuh]

Souness is a prat. I'm sure he means well, but what the feck is he talking about. A beer can killing people? Eff off.

 

[DoomSlayer]

and cops beating supporters is totally fine?

Cops mostly "protect" the interests of the rich. They love making it about justice and righteousness, when it's always about keeping a safety net for those in power. Bunch of cowards.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[pass.pass.pass]

Souness is a prat. I'm sure he means well, but what the feck is he talking about. A beer can killing people? Eff off.

I am sure he doesn't. He knows that the Glazers are not good for United, and he wants to keep it that way.

 

[DarkDog]

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MUST have released a statement

 

[Pickle85]

Cops mostly "protect" the interests of the rich. They love making it about justice and righteousness, when it's always about keeping a safety net for those in power. Bunch of cowards.

No offense, but this is oversimplified and plain wrong. If you really believe that policing is just about guarding the interests of a ruling elite alone then you're both stupid and paranoid. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by tarring all police with the 'corrupt and cowardly' brush.

 

[JB7]

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Prove it you lying cnuts.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Thanks for posting

 

[cyberman]

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MUST have released a statement

Who exactly are MUST? I know they got a bad rep on here a few years ago but i hope they arent a self appointed voice of the fans or bust.

 

[DarkDog]

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I don't always enjoy watching Kaveh Solhekol, but some of our fans must have got him and explained how things are in the world

 

[Rolaholic]

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Disgusting seeing all the justifications for violence against the non-violent protestors, who the vast majority of fans out yesterday were.