Protest at Old Trafford

Giggs86

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Not been watching the news lately, I gather.
Let me know when they play EL football and barely try to scrape top 4 like we had for almost a decade. Then, we will see how their fans react. I can guarantee they won't let it happen.
 

Rightnr

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This club is not reaching a £7bn valuation with the trend in current TV rights.

We have about 600m in annual revenue, that's already 8x of the current asking price. With little to no growth on the horizon and need for investment + competition from rich clubs, I seriously don't see why markets would value us higher than 10x revenue and that's like 5bn pounds.
 

Colin Clarke

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And so the in fighting begins. This is why the idiots who where throwing bottles and apparently hurt 6 police officers are IDIOTS. They are losing us our argument, we are in the right. The Glaser's should never have been allowed to gain control (and it is gain control not buy because to buy is to spend your own money) of Manchester United. But when you start attacking the Police or stewards you lose credibility. Up till then Sky where reporting how fans entered the ground, ok 1 numpty thought he was Tarzan and climbed on the goal, another thought he was big as he assaulted a tripod, someone threw a flare at the sky box and missed but they highlighted how peaceful the fans where apart from this and how peaceful they left. Those protesting where in the right, getting their point across why ruin it with bottle throwing and other violence which belittles our cause.One of our main arguments against the Glaser's is in the ESL fiasco they soiled the good name and reputation of Manchester United, let's as fans not commit the same crime. We all want these leeches out but we are BETTER than them, we are more LOYAL than them and we are more POWERFUL then them because we are UNITED and a United United can never be defeated.
 

sglowrider

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This club is not reaching a £7bn valuation with the trend in current TV rights.

We have about 600m in annual revenue, that's already 8x of the current asking price. With little to no growth on the horizon and need for investment + competition from rich clubs, I seriously don't see why markets would value us higher than 10x revenue and that's like 5bn pounds.
This might be the opening salvo. The seller throws out a super high price and they start negotiating from there like you don't sell an asset like a company or home at the price you want.

If Caftards can figure out the fake/unrealistic valuation price, the Glazers can too. So maybe it's a trial balloon on their part to see who is serious.
 

Cast5

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And so the in fighting begins. This is why the idiots who where throwing bottles and apparently hurt 6 police officers are IDIOTS. They are losing us our argument, we are in the right. The Glaser's should never have been allowed to gain control (and it is gain control not buy because to buy is to spend your own money) of Manchester United. But when you start attacking the Police or stewards you lose credibility. Up till then Sky where reporting how fans entered the ground, ok 1 numpty thought he was Tarzan and climbed on the goal, another thought he was big as he assaulted a tripod, someone threw a flare at the sky box and missed but they highlighted how peaceful the fans where apart from this and how peaceful they left. Those protesting where in the right, getting their point across why ruin it with bottle throwing and other violence which belittles our cause.One of our main arguments against the Glaser's is in the ESL fiasco they soiled the good name and reputation of Manchester United, let's as fans not commit the same crime. We all want these leeches out but we are BETTER than them, we are more LOYAL than them and we are more POWERFUL then them because we are UNITED and a United United can never be defeated.
What about the Police attacking innocent fans? No mention of that in your little rant is there..
 

Passitlikescholes

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and we are more POWERFUL then them because we are UNITED and a United United can never be defeated.
I can't agree with the above. Given it's a global sport and given that there are that many viewers/fans around the world, I just find it hard to believe that there will be enough of a boycott by the fans to dissuade/impact the glazers from a financial viewpoint (I'm speaking from a global view point, there may be more than enough local boycotts but the from a global perspective I have my doubts).

I don't think that a "fan's boycotting" movement should be relied upon, I struggle to see this working on a large enough scale to impact the Glazers
 

Escobar

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This club is not reaching a £7bn valuation with the trend in current TV rights.

We have about 600m in annual revenue, that's already 8x of the current asking price. With little to no growth on the horizon and need for investment + competition from rich clubs, I seriously don't see why markets would value us higher than 10x revenue and that's like 5bn pounds.
It shows how deluded they are and they only care about ROE, dividends, valuation. They still dont get that this is not what football is all about, it is emotions, competition for trophies, stadium, youth teams, etc. I just hate them so much
 

Escobar

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Everyone read SR tweet about our finances under Glazers. It breaks your heart and this is the message that we all need to spread! Then every idiot will understand why we hate them
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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This is like arguing that my views on local Neapolitan politics and electoral issues are just as worthy as those of local people, because it is my favourite city and I love to get any opportunity to revisit Naples and the local areas.
Swing and a miss.
 

Judas

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If the Glazers want to get the value that high they'll need to be putting a hell of a lot more into the club with improving it to see that happen. Seems totally and utterly unrealistic.
 

clarkydaz

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Everyone read SR tweet about our finances under Glazers. It breaks your heart and this is the message that we all need to spread! Then every idiot will understand why we hate them
Should make a new thread do everyone can easily see and debate it
 

TMDaines

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Has anyone well sourced articles/blogs/statistics about how much money the Glazers paid themselves and how much money has been used to service the debt after the acquisition? How does it compare to other owners (e.g. FSG / Kroenke)?
And as suggested, Swiss Ramble had now done another thread:

 

Giggsyking

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And so the in fighting begins. This is why the idiots who where throwing bottles and apparently hurt 6 police officers are IDIOTS. They are losing us our argument, we are in the right. The Glaser's should never have been allowed to gain control (and it is gain control not buy because to buy is to spend your own money) of Manchester United. But when you start attacking the Police or stewards you lose credibility. Up till then Sky where reporting how fans entered the ground, ok 1 numpty thought he was Tarzan and climbed on the goal, another thought he was big as he assaulted a tripod, someone threw a flare at the sky box and missed but they highlighted how peaceful the fans where apart from this and how peaceful they left. Those protesting where in the right, getting their point across why ruin it with bottle throwing and other violence which belittles our cause.One of our main arguments against the Glaser's is in the ESL fiasco they soiled the good name and reputation of Manchester United, let's as fans not commit the same crime. We all want these leeches out but we are BETTER than them, we are more LOYAL than them and we are more POWERFUL then them because we are UNITED and a United United can never be defeated.
It amazes me how people make it about the minority who were abusive. The media and our fans should look at the bigger picture. A protest this large would impossibly be problem free.
 

Giggsyking

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If the Glazers want to get the value that high they'll need to be putting a hell of a lot more into the club with improving it to see that happen. Seems totally and utterly unrealistic.
They should stop taking dividends for a strater. Refinance their fecking debt. Invest in the club's infrastructure. And the best thing they can do is that they feck off from the club the fecking leeches.
 

Siorac

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The Glazers took over 2005, so this calculation is missing the first ~5 years and the total sum is probably a fair bit higher. Looking back, I don't think United fans have to differentiate between the cost for debt service and dividends, when evaluating the Glazers as owners. What they Glazers did would have ruined any other (english) club. Its testament to how far United was ahead of anyone else. All in all they have been very luck to encounter so little resistance over the years.

It's fair to wonder about the alternatives with or without the Glazers. Not all options would be an improvement, but the Glazers aren't particularly good at their job. I think fans underestimate their influence, but it needs sustained pressure (not just a few people for a few games) and a clear message.
The only point of the calculation is that anyone who buy United with their own money can't realistically expect a return on investment. In that sense, it doesn't even matter that much if the dividends these hypothetical new owners take out every year amount to 20m or 50m - they still won't get their money back in a reasonable timeframe.

So if we want rid of the Glazers, we're looking at 1) becoming the plaything of some billionaire or nation state, where they purchase United merely for the prestige of doing so, or 2) another leveraged buyout by businessmen who want to make money on their investment.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Reading in the Guardian this morning that the Glazers have no interest in selling and ths long-term vision is to grow the value of the club (company) to £10bn.

They just don't get it. Adidas are said to be concerned with shirt sales. Fans will continue to protest. Protesters will see to it that the club (company) valuation will only go down.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Reading in the Guardian this morning that the Glazers have no interest in selling and ths long-term vision is to grow the value of the club (company) to £10bn.

They just don't get it. Adidas are said to be concerned with shirt sales. Fans will continue to protest. Protesters will see to it that the club (company) valuation will only go down.
I’ve heard that line before. So have the Glazers. Yet here we are.
 

Pogue Mahone

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So that's 18m per year on dividends in the last 5 years. Now, while that is exactly 18m per year more than what the Glazers deserve for their work at United, it still highlights the problem: namely, that any potential owner who is looking for a return on investment is likely to be not much different to the Glazers.

I mean it's what, a 4bn investment at this point? With 20m a year in dividends, you're looking at 200 years to break even. So our options are becoming a vanity/sportswashing project or there's the impossible dream, that a few thousand passionate and dedicated fans put up the money somehow. And it's hard to see that happening. Or, of course, there's the third option: another leveraged buyout by a different Glazer family.

I agree with the protests - I'm just very pessimistic about what will happen even if they turn out to be successful.
Exactly where my head is at too.
 

KiD MoYeS

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It's one game which was postponed I would wait for bigger sample size before making a definitive judgement about it.
Fair enough. But I do feel the most recent two weeks has shown a new wave of anti-Glazer sentiment rear its head and I don't think this is going away either. Roy Keane said it, this is only the start - it is coming to a head with the Glazers.
 

LawCharltonBest

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Telling that the Glazers still haven't issued any response whatsoever

It makes me wonder if they even realise what happened, they certainly don't care much either way
 

UncleBob

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I feel this time is definitely different. Fans know they can have games postponed.
Ehm...It's a one off. Security + police will be increased, the club will have to finance it, punishment for this happening again could be extremely strict. "We decide when you play" is short lived.
 

DomesticTadpole

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So are they going down the Dallas Cowboys route, a storied franchise worth lots and lots of money, but will win feck all.
 

KiD MoYeS

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Ehm...It's a one off. Security + police will be increased, the club will have to finance it, punishment for this happening again could be extremely strict. "We decide when you play" is short lived.
Then what's the point? :lol: something else will happen. Sponsorship will be targeted eventually I would imagine.
 

UncleBob

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Any protest against the Glazers? You don't appear to have any faith that the status quo can be changed.
I have faith, i'm just surprised by how naive some are. "Target the sponsors", as if this wasn't attempted at a large scale when the Yanks initially took over the club.
 

KiD MoYeS

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I have faith, i'm just surprised by how naive some are. "Target the sponsors", as if this wasn't attempted at a large scale when the Yanks initially took over the club.
My point though is that this past weekend we have had new heights taken with anti-Glazer protest. The cat is out of the bag now, Glazers backing a super league, they have played their hand and I don't see fan unrest dying down this time.
 

UncleBob

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My point though is that this past weekend we have had new heights taken with anti-Glazer protest. The cat is out of the bag now, Glazers backing a super league, they have played their hand and I don't see fan unrest dying down this time.
Postponing a match is a one off. Even at this stage, sympathy is divided between "fecking morons took it too far" and "it's perfectly understandable". Even our own fanbase is divided.

No idea why it's supposedly complicated to understand this. The instant reaction is, at a minimum, a hefty fine + increased security and police for the next match. More security and more police equate to increased risk of further violence. Violence results in wrong focus and less sympathy for the cause. More violence, the risk of being docked points and having to forfeit the match, massive fine, and the overall support will diminish almost instantly.