Protest at Old Trafford

Mindhunter

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PeterWunited said:
Let me first say I abhor the method by which United was purchased, but I am also a pragmatist. I have been a United support for 60 years, seeing the good and bad times and I prefer the good.

So you get the Glazers out, what next? Even if the value of the club is depressed by all the actions. The proposals ventured thus far will not fly. You can protest all you want about how the Glazers bought the club but you have to deal with reality, we are a club valued at £4B with debts of £500M and squad and infrastructure which needs expenditure of £1B plus. There are indications that the TV and sponsorship income has maxed. The Glazers have to achieve maximum value for shareholders on any sale, otherwise they may face class action in the US. Anything they do to devalue the shares will be taken to court. So what are the options put forward thus far?

NEW OWNERS, where are all these people who love United enough to want to take on that level of debt or problems. There are not many rumours about people queuing up to buy United. Even the Saudis, which some people don’t want, think Newcastle is a better bet. Otherwise we could be bought by new business men. Bear in mind that depressing the value might seem a good idea but it also may attract venture capitalists. See where you are then.

50% plus fan ownership. Even with a depressed value, fans will have to find £1B plus. That is a million fans putting in £1000 each. Not going to happen. Even if it did the problems still remain of the debt and development requirements. The Government will not legislate for 50+1. Most other clubs don’t want it, the Government will not pay off the owners, and they do not want to set a precedent that shows that post Brexit Britain has a business intervention policy. They may bring in a football club regulator and some fan representation, but that will have little teeth. No meaningful legislation will come about which would take United back to the top.

MUST proposals. Whilst a very laudable set of proposals, will never fly, because it assumes that the Glazers will sell part of the shares at a preferential rate. More shares on the market mean the value of current shares will devalue. As said previously, Glazers will be taken to court by existing shareholders.

Some people are willing to let United fall for a supposed better future, tell me where are some of the great clubs of the past and have they got back from a fall. Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa are examples. Arsenal are a more modern day example. If you see your club fall be prepared for a bleak future.

So what is the solution? I proposed the other day a possible win/win solution, which as usual got criticism but no alternative realistic option. That was for all parties, owners (maybe the Glazers), Council and Government to work together to develop a NEW TRAFFORD. See my previous posting for details. It may not fly for many reasons. As in life we need a solution which all parties can live with.

The protest have a value but there is also a time to walk away and work with people.
Click to expand...
This post should be a sticky note on all the protest related threads.
 

Dve

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Glazers Out! said:
The Glazer's tried to destroy British and European football with their 25 year Super League contract.

25 years. And they expect everyone to just forget and sweep it under the rug like it never happened.
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I´m not sure the protests are against the SL anymore. I mean, why fight a battle already won.
 

Neo_Mufc

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I always say this and it will never work but how difficult would it be for ST holders to not renew and members to not buy tickets. The only real damage to The Glazers will be empty seats.
 

Champ

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PeterWunited said:
Let me first say I abhor the method by which United was purchased, but I am also a pragmatist. I have been a United support for 60 years, seeing the good and bad times and I prefer the good.

So you get the Glazers out, what next? Even if the value of the club is depressed by all the actions. The proposals ventured thus far will not fly. You can protest all you want about how the Glazers bought the club but you have to deal with reality, we are a club valued at £4B with debts of £500M and squad and infrastructure which needs expenditure of £1B plus. There are indications that the TV and sponsorship income has maxed. The Glazers have to achieve maximum value for shareholders on any sale, otherwise they may face class action in the US. Anything they do to devalue the shares will be taken to court. So what are the options put forward thus far?

NEW OWNERS, where are all these people who love United enough to want to take on that level of debt or problems. There are not many rumours about people queuing up to buy United. Even the Saudis, which some people don’t want, think Newcastle is a better bet. Otherwise we could be bought by new business men. Bear in mind that depressing the value might seem a good idea but it also may attract venture capitalists. See where you are then.

50% plus fan ownership. Even with a depressed value, fans will have to find £1B plus. That is a million fans putting in £1000 each. Not going to happen. Even if it did the problems still remain of the debt and development requirements. The Government will not legislate for 50+1. Most other clubs don’t want it, the Government will not pay off the owners, and they do not want to set a precedent that shows that post Brexit Britain has a business intervention policy. They may bring in a football club regulator and some fan representation, but that will have little teeth. No meaningful legislation will come about which would take United back to the top.

MUST proposals. Whilst a very laudable set of proposals, will never fly, because it assumes that the Glazers will sell part of the shares at a preferential rate. More shares on the market mean the value of current shares will devalue. As said previously, Glazers will be taken to court by existing shareholders.

Some people are willing to let United fall for a supposed better future, tell me where are some of the great clubs of the past and have they got back from a fall. Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa are examples. Arsenal are a more modern day example. If you see your club fall be prepared for a bleak future.

So what is the solution? I proposed the other day a possible win/win solution, which as usual got criticism but no alternative realistic option. That was for all parties, owners (maybe the Glazers), Council and Government to work together to develop a NEW TRAFFORD. See my previous posting for details. It may not fly for many reasons. As in life we need a solution which all parties can live with.

The protest have a value but there is also a time to walk away and work with people.
Click to expand...
Have the Glazers offered to work with the fans then?
All I've seen so far is generic rhetoric, genuinely intrigued as to where they have highlighted that they would be willing to work with the fans, Government and Council, this is pie in the sky wishful thinking.

The genuine alternative is a consortium with fan input to take over.
Or fan input on the direction of the club if the Glazers don't want to go, but it appears that a token gesture is the best the fans will get.
 

JB7

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Neo_Mufc said:
I always say this and it will never work but how difficult would it be for ST holders to not renew and members to not buy tickets. The only real damage to The Glazers will be empty seats.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is those seats would just get filled with tourists, so if anything the Glazers win because there's thousands more people spending in the Megastore and on food and drinks in the ground.

As we saw when thousands dropped away to start FCUM, their seats just got filled by day trippers.

So yeah, in theory it's a great idea but ultimately it won't work because people will always go & there is always someone waiting to take the seat.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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A few hours old but just sharing the picture to show birds eye presence just before the gate entrances.
 

Adisa

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PeterWunited said:
Let me first say I abhor the method by which United was purchased, but I am also a pragmatist. I have been a United support for 60 years, seeing the good and bad times and I prefer the good.

So you get the Glazers out, what next? Even if the value of the club is depressed by all the actions. The proposals ventured thus far will not fly. You can protest all you want about how the Glazers bought the club but you have to deal with reality, we are a club valued at £4B with debts of £500M and squad and infrastructure which needs expenditure of £1B plus. There are indications that the TV and sponsorship income has maxed. The Glazers have to achieve maximum value for shareholders on any sale, otherwise they may face class action in the US. Anything they do to devalue the shares will be taken to court. So what are the options put forward thus far?

NEW OWNERS, where are all these people who love United enough to want to take on that level of debt or problems. There are not many rumours about people queuing up to buy United. Even the Saudis, which some people don’t want, think Newcastle is a better bet. Otherwise we could be bought by new business men. Bear in mind that depressing the value might seem a good idea but it also may attract venture capitalists. See where you are then.

50% plus fan ownership. Even with a depressed value, fans will have to find £1B plus. That is a million fans putting in £1000 each. Not going to happen. Even if it did the problems still remain of the debt and development requirements. The Government will not legislate for 50+1. Most other clubs don’t want it, the Government will not pay off the owners, and they do not want to set a precedent that shows that post Brexit Britain has a business intervention policy. They may bring in a football club regulator and some fan representation, but that will have little teeth. No meaningful legislation will come about which would take United back to the top.

MUST proposals. Whilst a very laudable set of proposals, will never fly, because it assumes that the Glazers will sell part of the shares at a preferential rate. More shares on the market mean the value of current shares will devalue. As said previously, Glazers will be taken to court by existing shareholders.

Some people are willing to let United fall for a supposed better future, tell me where are some of the great clubs of the past and have they got back from a fall. Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa are examples. Arsenal are a more modern day example. If you see your club fall be prepared for a bleak future.

So what is the solution? I proposed the other day a possible win/win solution, which as usual got criticism but no alternative realistic option. That was for all parties, owners (maybe the Glazers), Council and Government to work together to develop a NEW TRAFFORD. See my previous posting for details. It may not fly for many reasons. As in life we need a solution which all parties can live with.

The protest have a value but there is also a time to walk away and work with people.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with this. People protesting haven't really laid out a workable vision. Fan ownership of a $5bn company is neigh on impossible. Getting the Glazeers to commit to more CapEx would be a victory in its own.
 

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg

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Adisa said:
Totally agree with this. People protesting haven't really laid out a workable vision. Fan ownership of a $5bn company is neigh on impossible. Getting the Glazeers to commit to more CapEx would be a victory in its own.
Click to expand...
the realistic best case scenario is that the Glazers take more of an interest in the club and start to work with the fans. In particular investment into OT.
 

Rood

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Neo_Mufc said:
I always say this and it will never work but how difficult would it be for ST holders to not renew and members to not buy tickets. The only real damage to The Glazers will be empty seats.
Click to expand...
People keep saying this but the ground has been empty for over a year and the Glazers are still here!

But anyway it will never happen - even many fans who are part of the protests will not give up their tickets as they want to support the team on the pitch, on top of that there are many who are apathetic or even against any kind of protests
 

calodo2003

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rotherham_red said:
I might be adding two and two together and coming up with five but if what I've interpreted from a cryptic tweet I've just seen correctly, I think the plan is to get the game called off by flying a bunch of drones on to the pitch en masse while the game is going on :lol:
Click to expand...
Post the tweet.
 

PoTMS

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Apparently, the Liverpool coach is being blocked on a side street by protestors.
 

Lennon7

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Lynty said:
Potential to be worse tonight.

Protestors are resolved to postpone the game, knowing their will be a heavy police presence. Police failed at the last game, so will heavy handed from the beginning. Throw in a couple of oddballs who love a scrap (protestors and police) and you have yourself a riot.

Weekday night should reduce the size of the protest, but lets face it - the worst offenders probably don't work anyway, so the day doesn't really matter.
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Can imagine exactly what type of person you are. Can this be picked up for class snobbery and generalisation mods? My reward for not insulting someone for once
 

clarkydaz

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JB7 said:
The problem with this is those seats would just get filled with tourists, so if anything the Glazers win because there's thousands more people spending in the Megastore and on food and drinks in the ground.

As we saw when thousands dropped away to start FCUM, their seats just got filled by day trippers.

So yeah, in theory it's a great idea but ultimately it won't work because people will always go & there is always someone waiting to take the seat.
Click to expand...
thats the crux of it, If the dieheard fans walked away thats what the Glazers want. Someone half the age of a 'legacy fan' to replace them, who have no real gripe or care for the owners
 

Tiber

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Neo_Mufc said:
I always say this and it will never work but how difficult would it be for ST holders to not renew and members to not buy tickets. The only real damage to The Glazers will be empty seats.
Click to expand...
It's global TV money that can hurt them
 

Buchan

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I’ll be shocked if that Scouse bus isn’t a decoy but they are such a self-obsessed, self-fellating shower of knobs, you get the impression they won’t travel anywhere unless it’s in that ‘This Means More’ nonce wagon.
 

PoTMS

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Why the feck have they turned up in that big bastard of a coach when they know there's potentially gonna be trouble? Anyway, hopefully it's resolved soon. No need for blocking the Liverpool players in and letting their tires out. As much as I dislike the silly cnuts, we should be directing our anger at United, not Liverpool.
 

bosskeano

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rumors were that the squad was already at OT more than 3 hours ahead of kick off to make certain there were no interruptions with them making the match

i'm sure they'll have the same situation in place with the liverpool players and these buses are just a distraction for the people who are protesting
 
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