Protest at Old Trafford

ivaldo

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I’m kind of annoyed about the effect of the protests. They’ve pretty much spoiled a decent looking end to the season.

Form has dropped a bit and it has the look of 5 straight defeats about it, including the Europa final.
How long have you been legally blind?
 

OrcaFat

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How long have you been legally blind?
Eh?

We lost 3 out of 4 since this happened. Coincidence, perhaps, but when the wheels come off it can be hard to turn it round.

I admit I am in a deep sulk after the Liv defeat. I can’t be arsed with all the politics. The attitude of some saying they will do everything possible to get games postponed is, to me, annoying. I just want to watch the team play; the Glazers never stopped me doing that and I found I can dislike them and enjoy football at the same time (it’s just less enjoyable when there’s a fixture pile up and we’re shipping defeats).
 

ivaldo

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Eh?

We lost 3 out of 4 since this happened. Coincidence, perhaps, but when the wheels come off it can be hard to turn it round.

I admit I am in a deep sulk after the Liv defeat. I can’t be arsed with all the politics. The attitude of some saying they will do everything possible to get games postponed is, to me, annoying. I just want to watch the team play; the Glazers never stopped me doing that and I found I can dislike them and enjoy football at the same time (it’s just less enjoyable when there’s a fixture pile up and we’re shipping defeats).
Feel free to direct me to the last time we lost 5 on the bounce. We have Fulham up next, who have lost 7 of their last 8 matches (drawing the other) and are already relegated. Does their own poor form supercede our own?

Those people protesting want to watch their club just as much as you do, it's just, they also don't want the Glazers to take billions out of the club, while leaving the stadium to rot.
 

OrcaFat

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Feel free to direct me to the last time we lost 5 on the bounce. We have Fulham up next, who have lost 7 of their last 8 matches (drawing the other) and are already relegated. Does their own poor form supercede our own?

Those people protesting want to watch their club just as much as you do, it's just, they also don't want the Glazers to take billions out of the club, while leaving the stadium to rot.
Or put another way: Just like the protesters, I don’t want the Glazers to take billions out of the club; I just like watching the team more than they do.

But seriously, like I’ve said before, these protests are all about money. I don’t care much for how the club is being run, but then I also don’t assume that the realist alternatives would be better.

As for losing five on the bounce, we are nearly halfway to that, have lost to worse teams than Fulham and wolves before and we’ll have to be close to our best to best Villarreal so it is far from impossible, even if unlikely.

But what I dislike more than anything is the idea that disrupting the team, hoping for bad stuff to happen to the team so that we can hurt the evil Glazers, is anything more than self-harm that frankly no businessman or woman will give a shit about.
 

ivaldo

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Or put another way: Just like the protesters, I don’t want the Glazers to take billions out of the club; I just like watching the team more than they do.

But seriously, like I’ve said before, these protests are all about money. I don’t care much for how the club is being run, but then I also don’t assume that the realist alternatives would be better.

As for losing five on the bounce, we are nearly halfway to that, have lost to worse teams than Fulham and wolves before and we’ll have to be close to our best to best Villarreal so it is far from impossible, even if unlikely.

But what I dislike more than anything is the idea that disrupting the team, hoping for bad stuff to happen to the team so that we can hurt the evil Glazers, is anything more than self-harm that frankly no businessman or woman will give a shit about.
Of course it's mostly about money. Why else do you think Glazers bought the club? Or do you imagine the near universal contempt of the super league was as an ostensive vehicle the fans used to get the owners to put an extra hundred million in the transfer kitty?

Oh they give a shit about it. No self respecting businessman or woman wouldn't give a shit about it. That's evident by Joel Glazers squirming apology, the public damnation of the club ownership by Nick Train, a major stakeholder, and the news of the collapse of a £200m sponsorship deal. If they didn't give a shit then they're pretty lousy businessmen indeed.

The very nature of protesting requires some degree of self-sacrifice. Mumbling quietly to yourself that you'd like things to be better, but the rearranging of a football match is too much of am inconvenience, does absolutely nothing to stop the continued decay of well over of a century of cultural significance.
 

OrcaFat

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Of course it's mostly about money. Why else do you think Glazers bought the club? Or do you imagine the near universal contempt of the super league was as an ostensive vehicle the fans used to get the owners to put an extra hundred million in the transfer kitty?

Oh they give a shit about it. No self respecting businessman or woman wouldn't give a shit about it. That's evident by Joel Glazers squirming apology, the public damnation of the club ownership by Nick Train, a major stakeholder, and the news of the collapse of a £200m sponsorship deal. If they didn't give a shit then they're pretty lousy businessmen indeed.

The very nature of protesting requires some degree of self-sacrifice. Mumbling quietly to yourself that you'd like things to be better, but the rearranging of a football match is too much of am inconvenience, does absolutely nothing to stop the continued decay of well over of a century of cultural significance.
OK some well argued points.

I am not too keen on the kind of protest that some feel is necessary to get what they want.

The reason I say it is about money is that people tend to dress it up as being about the tradition and spirit of the club as if it isn’t as simple as wanting more money spent on the team and the stadium etc.

Incidentally, the clubs assets are part of its value and if the Glazers care about anything, it is the value of their assets, much more so than whether a mob of discontented can stop a bus, get games postponed or lose us a few games (some of which matter to some of the fans).

Protest will quite possibly do more harm than good and the less peaceful the protest the less efffective.

There was an article in the MEN saying that the media were spreading myths about the level of transfer spending under the Glazers but when you read the article, it doesn’t dispute the facts at all, it merely says what the protesters probably think:“United should spend more than anyone on transfers” whilst it freely admitted that we are second only to City on that. I don’t disagree with the notion that we could and should outspend the rest but I don’t consider it a right, any more than I think we should join a league that will guarantee we are never relegated. It is a privilege to support a club in such a greatly advantaged position and I personally find the entitled attitude of many of our fans tiring.

I may be the only one but I just can’t get enthused about a protest that complains about us not being as rich as we used to be.

If we are hoping for a benefactor to come along who will cough up all the money from somewhere else and cycle all profits back into the club we will be waiting a long time. But more than that, if it ever happens, it will be just as dirty and empty as anything in sport.
 

OrcaFat

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For anyone talking about sacrifice, I heard an idea: when we get back into the stadium, stand up after 1 minute and peacefully exit the stadium. Do that every single week. It will be 100 times more powerful than scrapping with coppers and chucking bricks at cameras.
 

clarkydaz

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I may be the only one but I just can’t get enthused about a protest that complains about us not being as rich as we used to be.

If we are hoping for a benefactor to come along who will cough up all the money from somewhere else and cycle all profits back into the club we will be waiting a long time. But more than that, if it ever happens, it will be just as dirty and empty as anything in sport.
You sound like Souness here, i find it bizarre fans look at how they have run the club, what they get away with and are ok with it, as long as it doesnt effect your evenings tv
 

Sandikan

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For anyone talking about sacrifice, I heard an idea: when we get back into the stadium, stand up after 1 minute and peacefully exit the stadium. Do that every single week. It will be 100 times more powerful than scrapping with coppers and chucking bricks at cameras.
You're making the assumption that all the people in the mob actually ever go into games, and aren't just jumping into some aggro for fun.
 

OrcaFat

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You're making the assumption that all the people in the mob actually ever go into games, and aren't just jumping into some aggro for fun.
Well I don’t doubt there were some just pitching up because they like aggro.

What I am assuming is that there is a meaningful level of support for these protests among the fans who go to the games (in part considering a lot of focus is on the state of the stadium). If the match going fans don’t support “the protest”, it probably has no future at all.
 

OrcaFat

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You sound like Souness here, i find it bizarre fans look at how they have run the club, what they get away with and are ok with it, as long as it doesnt effect your evenings tv
I am saying the protesters will all be happy when they are showered with cash on the squad and stadium.

I don’t know what Souness said but I am a fan because I like watching the football team.

Now, clearly, some people have very strong views about this and I don’t begrudge anyone their opinion or right of protest. I don’t have to agree with their motives or their methods.

If I felt as some of these protesters do, I would organise a long series of orchestrated walk outs, if there are enough match going fans to do their bit. It’s the best suggestion I’ve heard. The games can go ahead but the images of the stadium peacefully emptying will go around the world.

The type of response I’m expecting are:
1. Nobody will walk out after buying a ticket
2. You have to smash some heads to get attention

Hope I’m wrong.
 

clarkydaz

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I am saying the protesters will all be happy when they are showered with cash on the squad and stadium.

I don’t know what Souness said but I am a fan because I like watching the football team.

Now, clearly, some people have very strong views about this and I don’t begrudge anyone their opinion or right of protest. I don’t have to agree with their motives or their methods.

If I felt as some of these protesters do, I would organise a long series of orchestrated walk outs, if there are enough match going fans to do their bit. It’s the best suggestion I’ve heard. The games can go ahead but the images of the stadium peacefully emptying will go around the world.

The type of response I’m expecting are:
1. Nobody will walk out after buying a ticket
2. You have to smash some heads to get attention

Hope I’m wrong.
Souness said united fans are just salty becuase they aint top of the league anymore. This was put to bed by Carragher of all people saying there were protests years ago when we were winning 3 leagues on the bounce and making CL finals.
I agree on the walkout, that was supposed to happen last season. it coincided on Brunos debut and the fact it happened to be the Munich anniversary so there was obvious conflict of being in good taste. the walkout was supposed to be on 58 or 68 minutes

Protesters who have seen the Glazers enter the club will never be happy with them. Showering cash on the squad and stadium is what they should be doing anyway. Its an absolute acceptance of mediocrity they have placed on the club while they count billions, there is clearly a divide of new fan who couldnt give a shit about them. Or they wouldnt mind them being removed as long as someone else does it for them
 

OrcaFat

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Souness said united fans are just salty becuase they aint top of the league anymore. This was put to bed by Carragher of all people saying there were protests years ago when we were winning 3 leagues on the bounce and making CL finals.
I agree on the walkout, that was supposed to happen last season. it coincided on Brunos debut and the fact it happened to be the Munich anniversary so there was obvious conflict of being in good taste. the walkout was supposed to be on 58 or 68 minutes

Protesters who have seen the Glazers enter the club will never be happy with them. Showering cash on the squad and stadium is what they should be doing anyway. Its an absolute acceptance of mediocrity they have placed on the club while they count billions, there is clearly a divide of new fan who couldnt give a shit about them. Or they wouldnt mind them being removed as long as someone else does it for them
I think there is a divide but I think it would be fans like me who remember lean years between Busby and SAF who would be more circumspect about what we are entitled to.

I wouldn’t mind the Glazers removed, don’t care who does it but I doubt anyone can. The harder we push the deeper they will dig in.

If the Glazers do sell, I doubt it will be to anyone better, quite possibly worse, and either way I’m beginning to think it doesn’t really matter. I’ve enjoyed this season so much that when I see and hear some of the arguments of the protesters, I think many fans have forgotten the point of football.
 

Glazers Out!

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From last week. The protests spread:

Demonstration Alert: Oslo (Norway) Protest by Members of the Manchester United Football Supporter Club on May 6
Location: U.S. Embassy in Oslo, Norway
Event: Oslo Police provided notice of a planned demonstration by members of the Manchester United football supporter club outside the U.S. Embassy on the evening of Thursday, May 6th, from 7PM - 7:30PM. The precise number of demonstrators is unknown at this time but turnout is expected to be low by Oslo Police. Oslo Police will direct the group to a designated area away from the Embassy grounds, a grassy field located approximately 100 meters northeast of the Embassy and next to the grocery store. Although most demonstrations in Oslo are coordinated with local police and remain peaceful, the Embassy advises that even demonstrations expected to be non-violent can sometimes escalate into violence. Therefore, the Embassy advises U.S. citizens to avoid the demonstrators.
Assistance:
  • U.S. Embassy Oslo, Norway
 

bosskeano

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Let's just hope for the Fulham match tomorrow that fans leave the protesting outside of Old Trafford and once inside they are only there to support the players. It'll be 18 months since they've had supporters to play in front of so it should be a day of singing and showing support to the boys on the pitch.
 
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Glazers Out!

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Let's just hope for the Fulham match tomorrow that fans leave the protesting outside of Old Trafford and once inside they are only there to support the players. It'll be 18 months since they've had supporters to play in front of so it should be a day of signing and showing support to the boys on the pitch.
When the fans tried to protest the 25 years of losing by NFL Washington Football Club/Redskins with posters inside the stadium, the greedy owner, Daniel Snyder had security remove all negative posters towards the owner and the team. This is the problem with protesting inside the stadium against greedy American owners.
 

JB7

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When the fans tried to protest the 25 years of losing by NFL Washington Football Club/Redskins with posters inside the stadium, the greedy owner, Daniel Snyder had security remove all negative posters towards the owner and the team. This is the problem with protesting inside the stadium against greedy American owners.
United have confirmed this won't happen so it's completely irrelevant.
 

bosskeano

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When the fans tried to protest the 25 years of losing by NFL Washington Football Club/Redskins with posters inside the stadium, the greedy owner, Daniel Snyder had security remove all negative posters towards the owner and the team. This is the problem with protesting inside the stadium against greedy American owners.
don't have an issue with them protesting against the Glazers as they've put the club in massive and unnecessary debt without properly backing the manager when needed and of course re-engineering Old Trafford. I just don't think given the circumstances surrounding the past 18 months due to health restrictions keeping fans out of the grounds, this is the time to have a go inside the grounds. Wear the green and gold if you like but fcking hell support the reds on the pitch with your voice.
 

JB7

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don't have an issue with them protesting against the Glazers as they've put the club in massive and unnecessary debt without properly backing the manager when needed and of course re-engineering Old Trafford. I just don't think given the circumstances surrounding the past 18 months due to health restrictions keeping fans out of the grounds, this is the time to have a go inside the grounds. Wear the green and gold if you like but fcking hell support the reds on the pitch with your voice.
Why not both? If you'd been to any of the protests recently or even the ones in 2005, 2010, 2020 etc you'd have seen there was just as much pro-United chanting as there was anti-Glazer.
 

Fluctuation0161

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For anyone talking about sacrifice, I heard an idea: when we get back into the stadium, stand up after 1 minute and peacefully exit the stadium. Do that every single week. It will be 100 times more powerful than scrapping with coppers and chucking bricks at cameras.
You pick on isolated events for a false comparison.

It won't necessarily be more powerful than 1000s protesting peacefully before a game. Which, by the way, is the only viable option right now as we are not back in the stadium.

Finally the 2 different types of protest are not mutually exclusive. You can arrange fans leaving the ground after 1 minute (when we get back in) AND have peaceful protest every game outside.

In short, stop making strawman arguments please. Thanks.
 

Maticmaker

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If enough people stopped watching that it's reflected in the tv rating then they'll start to notice.
That is the only protest that is even remotely likely to influence sponsors.
If every United fan cancelled their Sky Sport/BT Sport/ Streaming outlets, etc contracts, not just in the UK but around the world then it might just resonate with the Glazers.
But with the owners thousands of miles away, then standing outside OT, waving banners and shouting the odds, letting off smoke bombs, battling with police, etc is as much use as a 'protest' as the proverbial 'chocolate teapot'.
 

Sky1981

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That is the only protest that is even remotely likely to influence sponsors.
If every United fan cancelled their Sky Sport/BT Sport/ Streaming outlets, etc contracts, not just in the UK but around the world then it might just resonate with the Glazers.
But with the owners thousands of miles away, then standing outside OT, waving banners and shouting the odds, letting off smoke bombs, battling with police, etc is as much use as a 'protest' as the proverbial 'chocolate teapot'.
I surely can't cancel anything.

Nobody's showing exclusive United Match, it's all wrapped under the EPL. So, it's not an option, and most of the rest of the world TV deal is that a big promotor bought the rights and broadcast the EPL on local TV for free (ads), so it's not like I can choose to cancel anything. I could cancel Bein sport mobile, but they're broadcasting the whole EPL , not only United. So it won't affect the Glazer personally.

Bottom line is that if every United cancel whatever subscription they own the Glazer wont' lose a dime, because it's structured as EPL as a whole
 

OrcaFat

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You pick on isolated events for a false comparison.

It won't necessarily be more powerful than 1000s protesting peacefully before a game. Which, by the way, is the only viable option right now as we are not back in the stadium.

Finally the 2 different types of protest are not mutually exclusive. You can arrange fans leaving the ground after 1 minute (when we get back in) AND have peaceful protest every game outside.

In short, stop making strawman arguments please. Thanks.
I disagree, the protests outside the ground have far less sympathy because they infringe on liberties. It’s absolutely not a straw man argument.

You, like every fan, are entitled to do what you like but don’t expect me to agree with you. Thanks.
 

sunama

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For anyone talking about sacrifice, I heard an idea: when we get back into the stadium, stand up after 1 minute and peacefully exit the stadium. Do that every single week. It will be 100 times more powerful than scrapping with coppers and chucking bricks at cameras.
Walkouts won't work.
I say this because for most of this season, the stadium has been empty and it hasn't really affected the sponsors.
Some sponsors are reluctant to sponsor us because of the protests.
The most powerful thing fans can do is to bring in Nike and Ford placards and hold them up throughout the match. I promise you - that'll hit the sponsors and the Glazers where it hurts. The Glazers will probably start getting phone calls within minutes of the match starting if that happens.
 

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OrcaFat

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Walkouts won't work.
I say this because for most of this season, the stadium has been empty and it hasn't really affected the sponsors.
Some sponsors are reluctant to sponsor us because of the protests.
The most powerful thing fans can do is to bring in Nike and Ford placards and hold them up throughout the match. I promise you - that'll hit the sponsors and the Glazers where it hurts. The Glazers will probably start getting phone calls within minutes of the match starting if that happens.
Interesting idea.
 

Mickeza

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I have to say this is some terrible journalism. That’s not what he said in the context...he said the schedule had an impact and that obviously it’s better if the whole club is United but he didn’t say we lost because of the protests at all ffs.
 

clarkydaz

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Walkouts won't work.
I say this because for most of this season, the stadium has been empty and it hasn't really affected the sponsors.
Some sponsors are reluctant to sponsor us because of the protests.
The most powerful thing fans can do is to bring in Nike and Ford placards and hold them up throughout the match. I promise you - that'll hit the sponsors and the Glazers where it hurts. The Glazers will probably start getting phone calls within minutes of the match starting if that happens.
stadiums are empty as people cant be there, thats inevitable. Of course if people are walking out when they should be there its a talking point, with pictures shown all around the world in minutes
 

Tomuś

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I have to say this is some terrible journalism. That’s not what he said in the context...he said the schedule had an impact and that obviously it’s better if the whole club is United but he didn’t say we lost because of the protests at all ffs.
Yeah he's brilliant with media. Conveys the message without hurting anyone connected with the club.

He knows that the moment he says protests are to blame he loses some portion of support.
 

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Ole and the squad have worked hard to reach the position they're in now. For me, we should get behind them 100% for the three remaining matches, no disruptions.

People can then use the summer break to consider and organise, perhaps with other club's supporters, how best to proceed with protests, should they wish.
 

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Whilst I understand the protests, if it starts effecting the team on the field I don’t agree with it. I will always support the team on the field regardless of anything and everything else. Green and yellow scarves are fine, anti-glazer songs are OK but support the team when they need us.
 

always_hoping

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Typical woeful carry on by the English media. I listened to the full Solskjaer press conference and quite clearly focussed more on the ridiculous schedule for losing the last two matches, the effort by journalist to cause a divide between its supporters and manager is really pathetic