Qualitywise who is good enough to wear the shirt ?

[simplyared]

To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.

According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!

 

[Swearing Budgie]

Pogba, ability wise. But not in terms of attitude. Nobody else.

 

[fps]

Think this needs to broken up into “who is fit to be a starting 11 player” and “who is fit to be a squad player”.
Imagine the abuse a great servant like Quinton Fortune would be getting on here if he was thrust into being a nailed-on first teamer every week. But he was fit to wear the shirt- he never let anyone down and played his heart out.

 

[memelord]

Pogba, that's it.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.

According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!

Required level for what? Top 4 safe bet or challengers, Title contenders? Good enough to wear the shirt can be interpreted in many ways.

 

[simplyared]

Required level for what? Top 4 safe bet or challengers, Title contenders? Good enough to wear the shirt can be interpreted in many ways.

The level, you as a supporter of one of the biggest clubs in the world and in terms of history, you would expect.

 

[simplyared]

Think this needs to broken up into “who is fit to be a starting 11 player” and “who is fit to be a squad player”.
Imagine the abuse a great servant like Quinton Fortune would be getting on here if he was thrust into being a nailed-on first teamer every week. But he was fit to wear the shirt- he never let anyone down and played his heart out.

That's exactly what I've done in the OP. Rating some players as "squad players"

 

[arthurka]

Maguire, Romero, AWB, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial. Squad Williams, James, Fred, Greenwood.

 

[Hawks2008]

Listing this in line with the idea we are trying to be a top team again.

Starting 11 quality (players who are good/potentially good enough to play in top sides) :
De Gea
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Pogba
Rashford

Competition/Rotational (some are current starers, ideally pushed out of the starting 11 by quality additions but have a place in the squad) :
Romero
Lindelof
Shaw
Fred
McT
James
Martial

Imagine having this as a bench, lots of useful players who can change a game instead of relying on shite like Lingard, Jones, Matic, Young etc. to make things happen. Feel like these guys are ok-to-good but we should be aiming higher.

Kids like Williams, Greenwood,Tuanzebe etc. probably fall in here I'd say

Rest can go and nothing of value would be lost.

We need ideally a CB, LB, 2 CM, RW, ST. Midfield and the RW being the priorities and who knows a solid DM might make the defenders look better but feel Shaw and Lindelof will never be great.

 

[AndersB]

Likely starters:
DDG, Maguire, AWB, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial, James

Squad:
Lindelöf, Romero, Shaw, Dalot

Hopefully later starters:
Greenwood, Williams, Tuanzebe

Too early to call:
Gomes, Garner, plus other untested youth

Likely not good enough:
Pereira, Chong

Not good enough (anymore, for some)
Matic, Mata, Young, Jones, Rojo

His own category:
Pogba

 

[RedIan]

DDG - Williams - Maguire - AWB - Pogba - Rashford -Martial - Greenwood.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If we're talking about consistently winning titles at this moment in time not a single one. Rashford at times looks unstoppable then goes stretches were he does nothing but he's still young and learning so there's definitely hope for him. AWB may be another who will be great for us but for me it's still a bit early to tell. If Martial changes his attitude (which seems to be happening but for how long?) then he's definitely good enough. Way too early to judge our youngsters. The rest... meh

 

[Ballache]

Pogba, Martial, Rashford, AWB, Maguire (overrated but still), De Gea, VNL . We basically have no midfield.
Greenwood and Williams are good talents.

 

[Foxbatt]

The two Owens were commenting on Martial. They said he is bad in a poor team but would be extremely good in a good team where they can supply him the ball.

 

[Fracture90]

So you've got James as a player who's got enough quality to play for UTD, but you've got Martial as a squad player?

 

[Fosu-Mens]

The level, you as a supporter of one of the biggest clubs in the world and in terms of history, you would expect.

Would it not be better to just say title contenders, since it is our (the fans, not the club) long term goal? If so:

Starting 11 for title contenders:
DDG (Not long term)
Pogba (got the abilities)
Martial (got the abilities)

Rotational players(Among the 18 players usually in a match squad, but not more than 10 starts in the league per season)
Romero
Rashford (decisionmaking)
Maguire (immobility makes him an obvious weak point in how you defend)
Lindelof (not strong enough, same as Maguire)
AWB (can't pass or contribute in attack)
MCT (Zero sum player)
Greenwood (Should be loaned out if we had other capable options)
Tuanzebe (Got the abilities and physicality, not seen enough of him to evaluate his consistency over a number of games.)

Squad players (Can start on occasion and in cups):
Fred (Can do the work off the ball)
Young (Still physically able, but his time on the ball and lured into bad situations along the sideline is getting tiresome to watch.)
James (Counterattack)
Pereira (Work rate)
Matic (legs)
TFM (Not sure how he will be with his injury history. Might have matured or not.)

Players that should be given game time or loaned out to get experience based on their talent and readiness for first team football:
Laird
Williams
Mejbri
Kovar
Gomes
Levitt
Garner
+ some of the younger players in the u18.

Deadwood:
Lingard (everything)
Shaw (can't cross or attack)
Mata (can't run)
Jones and Bailly (Injuries)
Chong (He might develop into a decent player, but it will not happen at our club.)


Personally I think that most of the players in the squad should be sold given their lack of ability to play multiple types of football, and especially high press and possession based. Having a squad full of players mainly suited to low block and counter might get us top 4 if we are efficient in attack and lucky in defence, but no chance that we will be able to compete for a title over 38 games playing this type of football.

 

[simplyared]

So you've got James as a player who's got enough quality to play for UTD, but you've got Martial as a squad player?

Yes as I like the attitude of James and he will only get better if managed correctly. He's got pace, tenacity, good final ball into the box (which few of our players have) and creative (which few of our players are). Martial imo has reached his peak with us and is way too much hit and miss. Also his attitude I believe can be questioned.

 

[laughtersassassin]

De Gea (Although I'm in the camo he should be dropped)
Romero (Backup)
Pogba
Rashford
Martial

Up in the air:
Fred
Maguire
AWB


The rest are no where near and Pogba is the only one who is truly good enough to even getting near our top teams.

 

[NewGlory]

Starting: Rashford, Martial, Maguire (but whipped to do his best, e.g. headers and goals-wise).
Squad: McT, Fred.
Developing: AWB, Greenwood, Williams, Dan James, Tuanzebe, Garner

Everybody else is past their time (e.g. DDG), never was good enough (Pereira etc.), or should not be in the club (e.g. Pogba).

 

[Pughnichi]

Not playing fantasy football/football manager...

GK
DeGea
Romero
Henderson

RB
WanBissaka
Dalot - suitable back up and can develop

LB
XXX
Williams - suitable back up and can develop

CB
XXX
Maguire
Lindelof - back up
Tuanzebe - back up

DCM
XXX
McTominay - back up
Garner - suitable back up and can develop

MRC
XXX
Fred

MLC
Pogba
Pereira - suitable back up and can develop
Gomes - good prospect assuming he stays

AMR/FR
XXX
Chong - not convinced he’ll develop

AML/FL
Rashford
James

SC
XXX
Martial
Greenwood- hot prospect

That means selling Shaw, Young, Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Matic, Lingard, Mata

it also keeps the youngsters hungry to develop andraise their game to the challenge

 

[Offside]

Quality wise:

- Rashford
- Pogba
- Martial

In terms of quality, mentality and attitude:

- ?

 

[wolvored]

Another way to look at it is would any of them as they play today get into a Fergie team and the answer is no. De Gea was there in the days of Fergie as was Pogba, Young, Jones and Lingard, but I dont think any of them as they are playing today would have been picked by Fergie.

 

[RUCK4444]

Reading this thread only goes to show exactly what a massive task Ole had on his hands.

As I’ve posted many times this squad is by far and away the weakest I’ve seen in my lifetime (34 years.).

How posters can point to Pogba as our only top class player, which you can argue he is, and then expected Ole to do much better than he has is laughable. Especially considering the same player has been injured the entire season so far.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Another way to look at it is would any of them as they play today get into a Fergie team and the answer is no. De Gea was there in the days of Fergie as was Pogba, Young, Jones and Lingard, but I dont think any of them as they are playing today would have been picked by Fergie.

I was speaking to my Liverpool supporting mate the other week and he was saying how they have identified positions that needed improving and then identifying the right players for those positions, not just "better players than they already had" - e.g. Alisson in goal, Robertson at right back, Van Dijk at CB, Fabinho at DCM, Mane and Salah as forwards.

Then he started looking at our midfield, saying that Fred and McTominay wouldn't have got near the team under Fergie, and that they are not the sort of players that are going to get us back challenging at the top. I started challenging him saying how Fred had improved recently and how McTominay was a decent young player but I couldn't really take myself seriously - he was right!

 

[jackal&hyde]

I think it's very difficult to judge this in a team in transition and with such a young age. Sometimes just adding a couple of pieces can transform the team. I remember when many people were asking for SAF to retire, we were building arguably the best United team ever but things didn't really kick in to gear until Carrick. Something somewhat similar happened with Liverpool and VVD.

Having said that, i think Rashford, Martial, Pogba, DDG, Maguire, AWB and Lindelof are talented enough to be in a great team. Question marks over Shaw, mainly due to his fitness. A few other talented players like James, McTom, Greenwood, Fred, Tuanzebe, Pereira and Dalot have the talent to be part of that but they have a lot to prove still.

We need a new midfield basically.

 

[Mainoldo]

Pogba
Martial
Rashford
AWB
Fred

Only players worth taking into a title winning team. All the others could be replaced. Probably Maguire because he cost £80m so has to play.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Reading this thread only goes to show exactly what a massive task Ole had on his hands.

As I’ve posted many times this squad is by far and away the weakest I’ve seen in my lifetime (34 years.).

How posters can point to Pogba as our only top class player, which you can argue he is, and then expected Ole to do much better than he has is laughable. Especially considering the same player has been injured the entire season so far.

Exactly! In one thread some point out how poor the squad is and in another call the manager complete crap. You can't have it both ways, pick one lads: good squad and crap manager or crap squad and decent manager since we are in a fight for top 4 and still in all the cups.

 

[Cypherage]

Irrispective of quality, the whole squad lacks a spine, there does not seem to be any leaders on the pitch period.

 

[simplyared]

OK if we set the bar at Leicester level, who would get into their starting line-up? 4 of our players, that's where we're at!

De Gea

Pereira
Soyuncu
Maguire
Chilwell

Ndidi
Tielemans
Pogba
Maddison

Rashford
Vardy

 

[Rolaholic]

So you've got James as a player who's got enough quality to play for UTD, but you've got Martial as a squad player?

Glad I'm not the only one who was scratching my head at that

James would be no more than a squad player/impact sub at any other top club whereas Martial could make a decent case to start for a few

So many fans seem to think the only way to win is by running hard and non stop when the clubs that consistently win things do it with a mix or skillful/talented players + hard workers,not one over the other

 

[msra5kg2]

To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.

According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!

Purely on quality required to be challenging for the PL title and nothing less...
Pogba
De Gea
Rashford
Martial
Maguire

That’s XI

Squad players with quality:

Tuanzebe
Fred
McTominay
Mason

 

[hobbers]

Players who deserve to be in the United squad 2020/21:

De Gea
Romero
(Pereira)
(Henderson)

AWB
Lindelof
Tuanzebe
Maguire
(Smalling)
Williams

Fred
James
(Gomes)
McTominay

Rashford
Martial
Greenwood


It's fecking grim. Pogba obviously has the quality but he's gone.

 

[Snow]

Reading this thread only goes to show exactly what a massive task Ole had on his hands.

As I’ve posted many times this squad is by far and away the weakest I’ve seen in my lifetime (34 years.).

How posters can point to Pogba as our only top class player, which you can argue he is, and then expected Ole to do much better than he has is laughable. Especially considering the same player has been injured the entire season so far.

Pretty much. The same thing has been said the entire season and very little new is talked about. X, Y and Z aren't good enough to be starting so often but Ole's got no choice because there is no one else that can play. Then why didn't Ole buy anyone? Fingers pointed at Woodward, back at Ole, at both of them.

Bottom line is from the onset the squad looked like it would have a tough time finishing in a Europa League finish because there are several teams with as good or better squads than us but still not good enough to crack the top 4. However the decline of Spurs and Arsenal made top 4 a reality for several teams which makes it even more frustrating for people when they watch us play because they have hope of CL football.

Finishing 5th or 6th and having a go at all the available cups is what we can hope to achieve this season. Somehow finishing 4th or winning a cup is above expectation.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Quality of Talents wise (i.e. ability in what they can offer now to the team, not current form nor deserved nor questionable mentality/attitude/ambition/desire, etc)
These are "good enough" = minimum standard.

Starting 11: Pogba, De Gea, Rashford, Martial (4)
Regular: Mag, AWB, McT, James, Greenwood, Romero, Rojo, Smalling, Will (9)
Squad: Pereira, Fred, Matic, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Lindelof, Dalot, Young (8)

Regular are those who can make big differences in games because they offer that crucial "something" but lack the important "edge" atm to be S11 players, so they are suited to be rotated around if there are better options ahead of them. Squad are useful once in a while. Had to exclude Mata because of his regression, he's like a passenger nowadays. The rest eg. Chong and Garner, etc need to prove more.

______

If we consider everything...
Starting 11: Rashford
Regular: AWB, McT, Fred, James, Greenwood, Romero, Will, Martial
Squad: Pereira, Matic, Mag, Lindelof, Young, De Gea, Pogba

Squad here also include players with "problems", but still their qualities are useful to the team.

IMO.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Pogba, that's it.

in all except actual performances, which dont matter anyway

 

[manunited1919]

Another of these threads? SAF would have taken these players to a champions league final, easily.

 

[Footyislife]

Most of you are deluded if you think Rashford is a starter quality player. Bottom of the barrel in terms of converting big chances and has only scored double digits with penalty duties. Don't make me laugh, he's grown but in most Champion League clubs he's a squad player at best

Top Talent:
Martial, Pogba (when he's focused), AWB

Starters:
Maguire, Lindelof, DeGea

Squad Players:
Shaw, James, Fred (more goals and he's a starter), McTominay (almost a starter), Rashford, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly (too many injuries), Romero

Youngsters w/ Potential:
Williams, Greenwood, Gomes, TFM, Axel

Not Needed:
Dalot, Jones (squad player as DM), Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young, Matic, Grant

 

[Random Task]

Another of these threads? SAF would have taken these players to a champions league final, easily.

No, he wouldn't.

 

[Infra-red]

We've been the 5th or 6th best side in the country for most of the last 7 years. This is now our level. Most of our players are good enough for us to continue treading water - no need for large scale changes.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It depend on what manager we have and what we want to do. I think for us getting CL titles in the future we need to improve a lot and that should be the aim. Good enough currently there is noone for a side like that based on how they have played this season.

Potential starters though if they develop under a better manager.
Rashford
Mctominay
Fred
Martial
Pogba

Squad players potential
Greenwood
James
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Williams