Ok I can buy that. At present probably not based on quality. However he has imo big potential to improve. He has pace to beat his man (as Rashford), his final ball is good, and he can get us goals. He is the opposite of Fred, who imo is utter shite.
Qualitywise who is good enough to wear the shirt ?
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Fracture90
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But at this moment in time he's only got pace and workrate, there's no telling he'll actually improve considering how his game has dropped after first few games of the season.Ok I can buy that. At present probably not based on quality. However he has imo big potential to improve. He has pace to beat his man (as Rashford), his final ball is good, and he can get us goals. He is the opposite of Fred, who imo is utter shite.
It's also interesting that you've put Pogba on the list (imo he's the most talented player in our club) and despite his ever present talent majority of people are scrutinising his attitude and workrate, yet you've discarded Martial on basis that he wouldn't be able to accept being a squad player, despite him being a squad player under Mourinho and still lighting up the place.
simplyared
Full Member
In reply to @Fracture90:
Re James: there is more to his game than you're describing imo. Pogba, of course goes without questioning. Martial imo is a diffucult one. He's been with us for quite some time and in a striker role (which I assume is his position) he is far too inconsistent. A top striker needs to get in those positions that make himself dangerous to the opposition. Far too often he picks the ball up in tight situations leaving himself impossible tasks. How many times do we see him trying to achieve the impossible by taking on 3 or 4 men before losing possession. Also I think he's hit his peak which I believe is not at the level required to be our top striker. That said assessing player quality is subjective, and you and many others on here may dissagree.
Re James: there is more to his game than you're describing imo. Pogba, of course goes without questioning. Martial imo is a diffucult one. He's been with us for quite some time and in a striker role (which I assume is his position) he is far too inconsistent. A top striker needs to get in those positions that make himself dangerous to the opposition. Far too often he picks the ball up in tight situations leaving himself impossible tasks. How many times do we see him trying to achieve the impossible by taking on 3 or 4 men before losing possession. Also I think he's hit his peak which I believe is not at the level required to be our top striker. That said assessing player quality is subjective, and you and many others on here may dissagree.
Craig Ward
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Such a similar thread to a million others......
Quality is one thing. Having the right mindset to be a regular starter is something else.
Having quality doesn't guarantee you a starting 11 spot at all.
Bit of a pointless discussion, we all know who the deadwood are
Quality is one thing. Having the right mindset to be a regular starter is something else.
Having quality doesn't guarantee you a starting 11 spot at all.
Bit of a pointless discussion, we all know who the deadwood are
If Rashford and James get in, Martial surely gets in too?To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.
According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!
We have as many goalkeepers (3) than midfielders / forwards combined who deserve to wear the shirt. This, is pretty depressing.
The ‘keepers are obvious. The midfielders / forwards, in my opinion, are Pogba, Martial and Rashford.
I understand the arguments for McT, and Fred has improved recently. James looks ok at best, not a bad sub. Greenwood has a lot of potential. Matic, Mata, Lingard, Pereira are useless. I don’t think there would be a long line of suiters if any of these players became available.
The ‘keepers are obvious. The midfielders / forwards, in my opinion, are Pogba, Martial and Rashford.
I understand the arguments for McT, and Fred has improved recently. James looks ok at best, not a bad sub. Greenwood has a lot of potential. Matic, Mata, Lingard, Pereira are useless. I don’t think there would be a long line of suiters if any of these players became available.
Fracture90
Full Member
You completely missed the point is was making when I said you added Pogba but you've discarded Martial because you believe he wouldn't accept being a squad player.In reply to @Fracture90:
Re James: there is more to his game than you're describing imo. Pogba, of course goes without questioning. Martial imo is a diffucult one. He's been with us for quite some time and in a striker role (which I assume is his position) he is far too inconsistent. A top striker needs to get in those positions that make himself dangerous to the opposition. Far too often he picks the ball up in tight situations leaving himself impossible tasks. How many times do we see him trying to achieve the impossible by taking on 3 or 4 men before losing possession. Also I think he's hit his peak which I believe is not at the level required to be our top striker. That said assessing player quality is subjective, and you and many others on here may dissagree.
James got potential but you stated quality as a factor/requirement in thread title hence why I'm a bit confused and atm he's very raw.
Some people got in on account of their potential, some on talent, some on their attitude...it's very convoluted.
Have you been watching games buddy? Only player in team capable of creating a chance for our strikers is Pogba, bar him there's none. For the last 5 years this is only 2nd manager that is giving chance to Martial and his repaying them with goals and assists. He practically lost close to 3 years under Mourinho and his tumescent style of football.
jesperjaap
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As others have said, isnt just quality, but application and attitude and barely a player is a shoe in with all those things put together. What is obvious to me is a lot of errors of the summer are rearing there ugly head now:
Jones should have gone, despite not being that old he is finished, Smalling was the better option to keep squad wise if he accepted that we dont know.
Matic and Mata are also finished, not sure about Matic but the other two got new contracts too ridiculous, and look ata how arful they have all been when put into action.
Lindelof and Fred arent good enough apart from being squad players and should have been replaced.
Lingard and Perreira have had opportunities a plenty now, neither are good enough.
We desperately needed a new right winger of quality.....James will never be good enough.
Pogba and Martial have the quality, but not the consistency or apparently application or loyalty and should both have been sold.
I could go on and on but back to the original question of who deserves the shirt:
Romero, one of the best number 2s in the world and seems to have accepted beign back up and I cant remember anything other than a top performance when he has been called up. You could even argue he deserves to start currently with DeGea just not looking right to me the last season or so.
Wan Bissaka, Yes early days and has a lot to improve going forwards, defensively and unsurprisingly to me he has been superb
Rashford, now finally been put out on the left permanently, the one exciting player in our side, the only real spark
I do like the look of Williams, Tuanzabe and of course Greenwood and I like the application of McTominay though I dont see the quality or hype he has got .
Been ok but still think we over spent on Maguire when there were better options we should have moved for. We should have signed. two new centre backs actually. We should have bit hands off of clubs for Pogba for £100m and rebuilt out midfield and we should have boughta right winger.
We did one great signing, one decent one and one really average one when we needed 4 great ones and two or three decent ones. We also failed to move on several players we should have done. 4 year plan? Rubbish, we are getting further away each season dont give me this young side rubbish
Jones should have gone, despite not being that old he is finished, Smalling was the better option to keep squad wise if he accepted that we dont know.
Matic and Mata are also finished, not sure about Matic but the other two got new contracts too ridiculous, and look ata how arful they have all been when put into action.
Lindelof and Fred arent good enough apart from being squad players and should have been replaced.
Lingard and Perreira have had opportunities a plenty now, neither are good enough.
We desperately needed a new right winger of quality.....James will never be good enough.
Pogba and Martial have the quality, but not the consistency or apparently application or loyalty and should both have been sold.
I could go on and on but back to the original question of who deserves the shirt:
Romero, one of the best number 2s in the world and seems to have accepted beign back up and I cant remember anything other than a top performance when he has been called up. You could even argue he deserves to start currently with DeGea just not looking right to me the last season or so.
Wan Bissaka, Yes early days and has a lot to improve going forwards, defensively and unsurprisingly to me he has been superb
Rashford, now finally been put out on the left permanently, the one exciting player in our side, the only real spark
I do like the look of Williams, Tuanzabe and of course Greenwood and I like the application of McTominay though I dont see the quality or hype he has got .
Been ok but still think we over spent on Maguire when there were better options we should have moved for. We should have signed. two new centre backs actually. We should have bit hands off of clubs for Pogba for £100m and rebuilt out midfield and we should have boughta right winger.
We did one great signing, one decent one and one really average one when we needed 4 great ones and two or three decent ones. We also failed to move on several players we should have done. 4 year plan? Rubbish, we are getting further away each season dont give me this young side rubbish
Carl
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It's hard to say because they're playing for a staff that aren't getting the best from them. I actually think we have some good players who would flourish under a proper manager.
mad1max954
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They didn’t.I actually think we have some good players who would flourish under a proper manager.
In my view We do have some good players but we also have some that should not be anywhere near the team - lingard, Shaw, Young, and some should be in the squad but who are getting more minutes than they should; James, Andreas, lindelof. Plus people like martial lack competition for their no9 role. All this curtails the top performers from going further.
honetly, do you think pep would get better from Andreas, James or lingard?
I think this season has been positive actually. We have some real signs of life and with a couple of additions the team could really go places.
we are short on quality though and to blame ole or coaches just doesn’t make sense.
edit- to note that the james signing was inspired and I really like him as a player but I do think it’s unfair to rely on him and we need other options.
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De Gea
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Pogba if he stays
Rashford
Martial
Then I'm happy with Shaw or Williams at left back.
Requires 4 players, 5 if Pogba goes.
--------------- De Gea
AWB ----- CB ---- Maguire --- Shaw/Williams
---------- Pogba ---- CM
RW ------------ AM ------- Rashord
--------------- Martial
Obviously players like Linderof, Tuanzebe, McTominay, Gomes, Greenwood make for very good squad players or ones for the future.
Most importantly we need some composure in midfield, creativity wouldn't go a miss either.
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Pogba if he stays
Rashford
Martial
Then I'm happy with Shaw or Williams at left back.
Requires 4 players, 5 if Pogba goes.
--------------- De Gea
AWB ----- CB ---- Maguire --- Shaw/Williams
---------- Pogba ---- CM
RW ------------ AM ------- Rashord
--------------- Martial
Obviously players like Linderof, Tuanzebe, McTominay, Gomes, Greenwood make for very good squad players or ones for the future.
Most importantly we need some composure in midfield, creativity wouldn't go a miss either.
Ikon
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Good enough for first XI or squad
De Gea, Romero, Greenwood, Williams, Tuanzebe, James, Maguire, Rashford, Bissaka, Dalot, McTominay
*Notice how with the exception of Solskjaer's signings the majority are graduates. United's recruitment is beyond a joke.
Not good enough for a team with aspirations.
Lindelöf, Bailly, Mata, Young, Jones, Rojo, Matic, Lingard, Shaw, Fred, Martial, Pogba,
*Either don't have the ability, the mentality, or are past their prime.
De Gea, Romero, Greenwood, Williams, Tuanzebe, James, Maguire, Rashford, Bissaka, Dalot, McTominay
*Notice how with the exception of Solskjaer's signings the majority are graduates. United's recruitment is beyond a joke.
Not good enough for a team with aspirations.
Lindelöf, Bailly, Mata, Young, Jones, Rojo, Matic, Lingard, Shaw, Fred, Martial, Pogba,
*Either don't have the ability, the mentality, or are past their prime.
Von Mistelroum
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Rashford (squad)
Martial (squad)
De Gea
Romero (squad)
Wan Bissaka
Lindelöf (squad)
Maguire
James (squad)
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay (with quality partners)
These are the players I'd suggest should be in a title aspiring team in terms of quality and you can remove Pogba if we include attitude and intelligence. We've learned to accept poor to average players sadly. Rashford is considered one of our top players but it's far from a top attacker and often doesn't even seem in control of the ball.
Martial (squad)
De Gea
Romero (squad)
Wan Bissaka
Lindelöf (squad)
Maguire
James (squad)
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay (with quality partners)
These are the players I'd suggest should be in a title aspiring team in terms of quality and you can remove Pogba if we include attitude and intelligence. We've learned to accept poor to average players sadly. Rashford is considered one of our top players but it's far from a top attacker and often doesn't even seem in control of the ball.