Racism in Italy - even anti-racism is filled with racism

[Garethw]

When you mention bananas in this context, it's obviously racism. No other possibility here, masking it a joke is pathetic

Exactly. If he was trying to make a Lukaku is fat joke, then he could of said 10 donuts or something like that.

Bringing bananas into the conversation just shows what a racist cnut he is.

 

[SteveJ]

Interesting, hadn’t looked at it that way but it makes sense, conformity is a powerful tool.

It's the despicable use of people's faith or personal pride, whatever their race, as a means to make money (IMO).

 

[OL29]

It's the despicable use of people's faith or personal pride, whatever their race, as a means to make money (IMO).

Agreed, and that’s a whole other topic.

 

[Tarrou]

To label Passirani racist, or what he said as racist, shows a complete misunderstanding of Italian values. When he made the comment about the bananas, he doesn't intrinsically think that a black person is more prone to eating bananas, it is for comedic purposes and to make people laugh. Racist? I think the ones who say Passirani's comments are racist are actually the racist ones themselves because they are the ones making the connection between black people and monkeys.

That or he'd talk about ghettos again.



I imagine they'd do feck all. Why would they?
That you had to add an amendment to your post letting people know you deplore racism, maybe means you should have thought more about what you were actually trying to say with your query.



I don't think the second video necessarily negates the first. Stormzy might still think that they do look similar, but simultaneously still find it unacceptable and racist that a national newspaper mixed them both up. It's certainly symptomatic though.

I don't really see it with Stormzy and Lukaku, but one of my friends is the spitting image of Justice Smith (though a fair bit older) and I don't think making that kind of comparison is necessarily inherently racist, but that such comparisons often are rooted in racism and ignorance.​

This is racism.

 

[Jam]

I'm sorry but especially in the current climate you can't use bananas in a "because in cartoons people trip on them, and that's funny" context in relation to black players. That is absolutely zero excuse; there is far too much racial baggage with monkey/banana for them to be used against a black player as simply just a light hearted joke.

He made a racist "joke", and that should be recognized universally. If you're going to argue against that and die on that hill it just raises suspicions regarding your own beliefs and motivations. In before "MUH FREE SPEECH". (I'm already too late.)

It goes back to the Terry and Suarez cases, do I genuinely believe they're white/latin supremacists and have deep seated hatred of black people? No, they probably have no issues with black people generally but at the end of the day they both used racial slurs and that makes them racist.

 

[kouroux]

I'm sorry but especially in the current climate you can't use bananas in a "because in cartoons people trip on them, and that's funny" context in relation to black players. That is absolutely zero excuse; there is far too much racial baggage with monkey/banana for them to be used against a black player as simply just a light hearted joke.

He made a racist "joke", and that should be recognized universally. If you're going to argue against that and die on that hill it just raises suspicions regarding your own beliefs and motivations. In before "MUH FREE SPEECH". (I'm already too late.)

It goes back to the Terry and Suarez cases, do I genuinely believe they're white/latin supremacists and have deep seated hatred of black people? No, they probably have no issues with black people generally but at the end of the day they both used racial slurs and that makes them racist.

Your last paragraph is very sensible. The excuse of joking or taunting is used to justify saying racist things without being a true hardcore racist with a complete ideology.
You don't need to wear a white hood to be saying racist things in public.

 

[Sayros]

To label Passirani racist, or what he said as racist, shows a complete misunderstanding of Italian values. When he made the comment about the bananas, he doesn't intrinsically think that a black person is more prone to eating bananas, it is for comedic purposes and to make people laugh. Racist? I think the ones who say Passirani's comments are racist are actually the racist ones themselves because they are the ones making the connection between black people and monkeys.​

Train wreck of a post.

"Italian values"

You should really consider doing some soul searching, you are deeply on the wrong side of the issue there.

 

[kouroux]

We have some real racists on the caf and they barely hide anymore

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I saw that tweet and thought it was made up.

It actually happened. He actually thought it was a compliment to say that the only way to stop a black forward was using bananas. Good lord.

 

[The Boy]

Shall we amend the thread title to "Racism against Lukaku in the World"?

No, you should amend the title to racism a worldwide issue.

10,000 people singing about the size of Lukaku's penis doesn't equal 10,000 hard core, white supremacist racists in the OT crowd. But just highlights the fact that so many people think it's just a bit of a laugh to stereotype someone. If they were sat down individually and explained how that "laugh" actually impacted others, most would likely be shocked.

There is a massive problem of inherent racism in UK, Italian and many other societies, to try and diminish that is wrong, people should call it out and label it for what it is. That song was coined because he is a black player, people may think it's funny, that Italian bloke may have thought his banana comment was funny, it doesn't matter the impact is derogatory and racist.

We have some real racists on the caf and they barely hide anymore

This is a problem across society and across the world.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Is this post a WUM? Tell me, what the feck is funny about it?

Well I imagine that it is funny, to a person or society that is inherently racist. Unfortunately there are too many posts of this "ilk" on this thread for it to be a WUM. It seems we have some very misinformed people on this thread.

 

[SilentWitness]

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There’s a massive problem with racism in football atm and it’s only made worse when big twitter accounts post shite like this ffs.

 

[SteveJ]

There is a massive problem of inherent racism in UK, Italian and many other societies

Two former paratroopers were subjected to racial harassment while in the army that created a “degrading, humiliating and offensive environment” for them, an employment judge has found.

Nkululeko Zulu and Hani Gue took the UK's Ministry of Defence to a tribunal claiming it had failed to take reasonable steps to prevent discrimination and harassment against them.

On the morning of 23 January last year, Gue was in Zulu’s room having a cup of tea when a colleague came to join them and noticed that three photographs on the door to Gue’s room had been defaced.

One photo of Gue and Zulu had been defaced with a swastika and the words “f*ck off”, while someone had drawn a swastika and a Hitler moustache on another image of Gue. On a photograph of Gue, Zulu and another (white) private, the N-word had been written across Gue and Zulu.

 

[Adisa]

Can't believe some of the posts I am seeing.

 

[Maagge]

This is racism.

Train wreck of a post.

"Italian values"

You should really consider doing some soul searching, you are deeply on the wrong side of the issue there.

He's parodying another poster though. Sometimes it helps to read the whole post.

 

[Mr Parker]

The comments that pundit made about Lukaku are crazy, he deserves to be ridiculed for them and I can see why he has been sacked. I'm not sure I would go as far as to call him a racist who genuinely hates black people though. It really wasn't the time or place to make that sort of joke so whatever bad press he gets is warranted, the guy isn't a comedian so should know he can't say that sort of thing on tv.

 

[Dorian Gray]

To label Passirani racist, or what he said as racist, shows a complete misunderstanding of Italian values. When he made the comment about the bananas, he doesn't intrinsically think that a black person is more prone to eating bananas, it is for comedic purposes and to make people laugh. Racist? I think the ones who say Passirani's comments are racist are actually the racist ones themselves because they are the ones making the connection between black people and monkeys.
​

So people pointing out the inappropriateness of an extremely common racist trope used worldwide to insult black people are the racist ones. Am I getting whooshed? This can't be a serious post.
And I call bullshit on it supposedly being some harmless fun. The fact that he specifically used banana means he is the one connecting Lukaku or black people to monkeys. I am sure average Italian doesn't think all this is part of 'Italian Values' as you portray. At the very least it shows astounding ignorance and tone deafness, if not out and out racism.


Edit: Looks like I did get whooshed. Online sarcasm is getting tougher to identify :/ Apologies @Cascarino

​

 

[Fluctuation0161]

To label Passirani racist, or what he said as racist, shows a complete misunderstanding of Italian values. When he made the comment about the bananas, he doesn't intrinsically think that a black person is more prone to eating bananas, it is for comedic purposes and to make people laugh. Racist? I think the ones who say Passirani's comments are racist are actually the racist ones themselves because they are the ones making the connection between black people and monkeys.

That or he'd talk about ghettos again.



I imagine they'd do feck all. Why would they?
That you had to add an amendment to your post letting people know you deplore racism, maybe means you should have thought more about what you were actually trying to say with your query.



I don't think the second video necessarily negates the first. Stormzy might still think that they do look similar, but simultaneously still find it unacceptable and racist that a national newspaper mixed them both up. It's certainly symptomatic though.

I don't really see it with Stormzy and Lukaku, but one of my friends is the spitting image of Justice Smith (though a fair bit older) and I don't think making that kind of comparison is necessarily inherently racist, but that such comparisons often are rooted in racism and ignorance.​

It's racist mate. Please reevaluate your racism compass!

 

[kouroux]

So people pointing out the inappropriateness of an extremely common racist trope used worldwide to insult black people are the racist ones. Am I getting whooshed? This can't be a serious post.
And I call bullshit on it supposedly being some harmless fun. The fact that he specifically used banana means he is the one connecting Lukaku or black people to monkeys. I am sure average Italian doesn't think all this is part of 'Italian Values' as you portray. At the very least it shows astounding ignorance and tone deafness, if not out and out racism.


​

It could still be part of italian values, it just wouldn't make them any less racist.

 

[Ramos]

Cascarino wasn't being serious. He's imitating another poster who tends to downplay racism in Italy. He should have used quotation marks or something though.

I thought it was real too until i read "that or he'd talk about ghetto's again".

 

[haram]

It seems to me that casual racism is rife in Italy and a lot of people do not seem to understand the seriousness of racism in general.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

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There’s a massive problem with racism in football atm and it’s only made worse when big twitter accounts post shite like this ffs.

Mmm... correct me if I appear insensitive here, but I think the post above is just meant to be funny? Personally, I think it's still ok if we just joke about other races (purely for comedic purposes). I am from Malaysia, a multi-racial country and we do joke about each other's races, like stereotypes and all that. Things only get out of hand when people start to hate on other races.

Edit: Of course I do think derogatory acts like monkey chants or bananas are way out of line.

 

[Tarrou]

He's parodying another poster though. Sometimes it helps to read the whole post.

thats a relief

 

[Ramos]

Mmm... correct me if I appear insensitive here, but I think the post above is just meant to be funny? Personally, I think it's still ok if we just joke about other races (purely for comedic purposes). I am from Malaysia, a multi-racial country and we do joke about each other's races, like stereotypes and all that. Things only get out of hand when people start to hate on other races.

Edit: Of course I do think derogatory acts like monkey chants or bananas are way out of line.

Only if you don't know or disregard the context though. The "France national team is just for black players" thing kinda stopped being funny a long time ago when French far right politicians used it to denounce the team and claim those citizens aren't truly French, when the race quota scandal broke out in 2011 or even recently when Igor Stimac implied it wasn't fair they had to play a whole bunch of African nations in the WC final instead of France.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

How about you don't conveniently quote only the first part of Cascarino's post and leave out the next bit?

@Fridge chutney @SS @Tarrou @Sayros @Fluctuation0161

Poe's Law really is the truest of all Internet adages. Only this time it was literally spelled out for you that it was a parody.

 

[Tarrou]

How about you don't conveniently quote only the first part of Cascarino's post and leave out the next bit?

@Fridge chutney @SS @Tarrou @Sayros @Fluctuation0161

Poe's Law really is the truest of all Internet adages. Only this time it was literally spelled out for you that it was a parody.

I didn't leave out anything

If people want to parody racism, that's up to them but I don't owe anyone an apology for misinterpreting it as racism.. it's hard to tell in here and the fact that five people did the same supports that fact

 

[Conor]

I'm not so sure. Context matters, and so do intentions. I heard the actual clip in Italian, there wasn't malice involved, it was just an old dude trying to be harmlessly amusing. Did he use a racial stereotype? Absolutely! Was he trying to be demeaning, offensive, insulting based on skin color? Probably not.

This is not to say Italy doesn't have a racist problem in the stadiums, but this one is a little bit more gray in my mind.

My god, how is equating a black person to a monkey a 'racial stereotype'? This is a seriously embarrassing post.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

I didn't leave out anything

If people want to parody racism, that's up to them but I don't owe anyone an apology for misinterpreting it as racism.. it's hard to tell in here and the fact that five people did the same supports that fact

Yes, five people who didn't bother to read the whole post. If someone hadn't pointed out the actual intend of the post (which was pretty obvious), said poster would now be widely regarded as a racist. So I think an apology is in order.

 

[Tarrou]

Yes, five people who didn't bother to read the whole post. If someone hadn't pointed out the actual intend of the post (which was pretty obvious), said poster would now be widely regarded as a racist. So I think an apology is in order.

I did read it, I just didn't get the reference. I'm sorry that bothers you.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, five people who didn't bother to read the whole post. If someone hadn't pointed out the actual intend of the post (which was pretty obvious), said poster would now be widely regarded as a racist. So I think an apology is in order.

To be fair, if they haven't followed previous threads about racism it's understandable that they didn't get the context.

 

[kouroux]

Yes, five people who didn't bother to read the whole post. If someone hadn't pointed out the actual intend of the post (which was pretty obvious), said poster would now be widely regarded as a racist. So I think an apology is in order.

It wasn't since many people fell for it.

 

[JPRouve]

Mmm... correct me if I appear insensitive here, but I think the post above is just meant to be funny? Personally, I think it's still ok if we just joke about other races (purely for comedic purposes). I am from Malaysia, a multi-racial country and we do joke about each other's races, like stereotypes and all that. Things only get out of hand when people start to hate on other races.

Edit: Of course I do think derogatory acts like monkey chants or bananas are way out of line.

Genuinely, what is supposed to be funny about it?

 

[Tostao_80]

Most Italians ive met, and ive met quite a few have been quite open about their racism. The others, not so. You can see some in this thread, already trying to defend and justify the indefensible. What this bafoon said was racism, pure and simple. Any attempts to try and acknowledge that, means that you yourself have some self examining to do.

 

[Ikon]

I genuinely cannot make any sense whatsoever from that letter.

"When you declare that racism is a problem.....you just help the repression of all football fans..."
Feck me, there's some unfathomable logic going on there....

 

[Bepi]

Thanks for the parodies , I can only say context is king, which is not an excuse but the only way to try and understand why things happen and where do they come from. In isolating one word or one string of words, you apply your own bias and see things from your own tinted perspective. If we want to go on with generalisation, every place has its own characteristic, tinted perspective, even this forum, which is unfortunately “racist” on its own terms.

 

[Ramos]

Thanks for the parodies , I can only say context is king, which is not an excuse but the only way to try and understand why things happen and where do they come from. In isolating one word or one string of words, you apply your own bias and see things from your own tinted perspective. If we want to go on with generalisation, every place has its own characteristic, tinted perspective, even this forum, which is unfortunately “racist” on its own terms.

That's a lot of words for: "Some people in Italy just can't help themselves and still compare black people to monkeys but we're working on it."

 

[Shiva87]

I think there needs to be a distinction between identifying people with race, and being racist. Identification is not a problem - i.e., x is African, Malaysian, Latino etc etc. Discriminating on the basis of race is!

Identification with race also 'makes you a racist' in today's world, and we are obsessed with 'politically neutral' terms. Lukaku is black, and that's a fact. But, hiding behind 'Italian values' to make banana jokes/ or have monkey chants, and using 'size of penis' (sorry fellow United fans) in references to Lukaku is a racial stereotype, both of which are clear and obvious racism. (Regardless of whether the latter is positive).

The problem is that, we are currently on two ends of the divide. Every racist feels that he is only 'identifying on the basis of race', and every anti-racist feels that 'identification on the basis of race itself is racism'.

 

[Smores]

The leaps of logic people will take to try and justify their emotive actions always astounds me.

I guess the number of people we have on here there's bound to be a fair amount of racists but I'd expect them to hide rather than justify themselves.

 

[Zelex]

To label Passirani racist, or what he said as racist, shows a complete misunderstanding of Italian values. When he made the comment about the bananas, he doesn't intrinsically think that a black person is more prone to eating bananas, it is for comedic purposes and to make people laugh. Racist? I think the ones who say Passirani's comments are racist are actually the racist ones themselves because they are the ones making the connection between black people and monkeys.

That or he'd talk about ghettos again.



I imagine they'd do feck all. Why would they?
That you had to add an amendment to your post letting people know you deplore racism, maybe means you should have thought more about what you were actually trying to say with your query.



I don't think the second video necessarily negates the first. Stormzy might still think that they do look similar, but simultaneously still find it unacceptable and racist that a national newspaper mixed them both up. It's certainly symptomatic though.

I don't really see it with Stormzy and Lukaku, but one of my friends is the spitting image of Justice Smith (though a fair bit older) and I don't think making that kind of comparison is necessarily inherently racist, but that such comparisons often are rooted in racism and ignorance.​

I think it shows that Italian values/culture is still quite behind with regards to cultural sensitivities. It may be humorous to Italians but notice the outrage it has caused worldwide. We live in a multi-cultural and global world. These type of comments should not be made on TV where millions across the world who may not be familiar with Italian values (as you put it) are watching. He can make these comments within the confines of his house with his friends etc.

 

[Fridge chutney]

How about you don't conveniently quote only the first part of Cascarino's post and leave out the next bit?

@Fridge chutney @SS @Tarrou @Sayros @Fluctuation0161

Poe's Law really is the truest of all Internet adages. Only this time it was literally spelled out for you that it was a parody.

What the feck are you on about? I was responding to his response to me. If it was a parody, that was not made remotely clear by the rest of his post, although I hope it was a parody because the alternative is grim.