Racism against Lukaku in Italy

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Ødegaard, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sep 9, 2019
    #81

    damageinc. New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Supports:
    the unknown
    He said that all black players should leave Serie A for racial abuse... then where they should play if these cases (on a bigger or smaller scale) are happening everywhere in “European” football (even though I struggle to call Turkey Europe)?? This is utter no sense again, he just want to attract back the notoriety that probably lost due his escape in China and Turkey. Pathetic moralism
  2. Sep 9, 2019
    #82

    TwoSheds More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2014
    Messages:
    4,601
    So because there is racism everywhere then racism anywhere is ok? I think you need to rub your brain cells together a bit harder before posting in future.
  3. Sep 9, 2019
    #83

    vangagal Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,208
    Location:
    Far away from home
    Are you one of those Inter Ultras? So we cant condone what happened in Italy because we dont live in Italy? Fecking hell.
  4. Sep 9, 2019
    #84

    Ramos Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    209
    This always annoys me a bit. "Don't talk about racism in my country or the country i like, talk about the others!"

    Or like when an American wants to say something about racism in Europe and is told to shut up.

    Yes, there's racism everywhere. That doesn't mean we can't talk about racism in a specific place without getting all defensive about it.
  5. Sep 9, 2019
    #85

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    75,310
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    You're seriously nuts. There is more racism occuring in Italian football than in Chinese or Turkish football for starters. You can criticize what he says but to go as far as saying he's doing it for notoriety is extremely stupid. Racism knows no countries anyway, extremely limited in thought the way you see things
  6. Sep 9, 2019
    #86

    minh_loc_xoay New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    How about Lukaku just gets more hungry from that and starts banging in goals at the same rate as Messi/Ronaldo to rub it in his haters's faces even more? That would be the most professional thing to do. :angel:
    He hates the oppo's fans for racism against him? Become a beast striker that strikes fear into them everything Inter visits them.
    He hates the Manchester United fans for not standing up for him? Become an elite striker that makes the CAF have hundreds of threads saying we should not have sold him.
  7. Sep 9, 2019
    #87

    Maagge enjoys sex, doesn't enjoy women not into ONS

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    8,887
    Location:
    Denmark
    Dude, if there's a racist incident in e.g. England it's widely condemned. Last season when Moise Kean suffered racist abuse his own bloody club didn't even get behind him. That's a big difference.
  8. Sep 9, 2019
    #88

    2mufc0 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,563
    Inter sending their ultras in here now? Give your head a wobble.
  9. Sep 9, 2019
    #89

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    36,125
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Rubbish.
  10. Sep 9, 2019
    #90

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,898
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Why is it on him to prove something to others? How about the racist fans just grow up?
  11. Sep 9, 2019
    #91

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    8,279
    Location:
    Wigan
    I loved it when Dani Alves ate that banana that got thrown on the pitch, I thought it was a fantastic response to racism. But he didn't have to eat the banana and I wouldn't expect posts here on the Caf bemoaning the fact he didn't eat the banana. "Couldn't he at least have nibbled the top of the banana?". No, the banana shouldn't have been there in the first place, blame the fan who threw the banana not the player for his reaction to the banana.
  12. Sep 9, 2019
    #92

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    58,148
    Location:
    Bigmouth Strikes Again
    People aren't racially abusing hm because he underperforms - they're doing it because they're racists.
  13. Sep 9, 2019
    #93

    ThatsGreat Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    625
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    No in Italy the fans like to get involved in the game play by helping their team in any way they can. They have always used racist chants to unsettle players and will continue to do so if they're allowed. And the problem is that they're allowed, not enough is done by the italian authorities to stamp it out. It's intimidation more than racism, or the weaponisation of racism as a tool to help their teams. A macabre form of cheerleading which aims to depress opposition morale rather than improve that of your own team.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  14. Sep 9, 2019
    #94

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    58,148
    Location:
    Bigmouth Strikes Again
    From the other Lukaku thread:
  15. Sep 9, 2019
    #95

    KirkDuyt Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    10,528
    Location:
    Dutchland
    Supports:
    Feyenoord
    We only use racism to unsettle you. How is that not racism? I only stabbed you in the face to make you feel bad, so it's not violence.

    I'm starting to suspect that "ultras" or whatever those clowns call themselves are a bit thick.
  16. Sep 9, 2019
    #96

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    17,652
    Its racism being used to intimidate. Not the other way round
  17. Sep 9, 2019
    #97

    Ramos Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    209
    But that's not exclusive to Italy however. They did that elsewhere too, trying to get a rise out of certain players and even get them sent off. Still happens at youth level in many places.

    The difference is that elsewhere the general consensus has become that racism is so despicable that using it in such a way is inadmissible and in fact, racist. That hasn't fully dawned yet on some Italians (but they exist elsewhere too). That's why Bonucci blasted his own teammate Kean when he reacted to racist fans, that's why Salvini downplayed the racism towards Koulibaly and compared it to just booing an opponent and that's why those Inter fans wrote that letter.

    They can't help seeing it as just any other form of mocking a person.
  18. Sep 9, 2019
    #98

    Fingeredmouse Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,298
    Location:
    Glasgow
    What the actual feck is going in in this thread?

    It's not really racism to shout racist abuse it is instead a cultural technique to unsettle the opposition. I assume we're going to hear that it's no different to pointing at a player's big nose. It is "pathetic moralism" (sic) to decry this racist abuse (because, you know, it's not racist - it's just tactical banter) and just what you'd expect of superior SJWs. It happens everywhere but also simultaneously Lukaku should have know better than to go play football where not racist racists chants would tactically rain down on him.

    What the actual feck is this argument? This is an apology for racism.
  19. Sep 9, 2019
    #99

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    657
    So, for example, a mob enforcer who regularly beats up people for his boss to send a message and intimidate people. Most people would say he's a violent man, but by your logic they'd be wrong, because he's only using violence to send a message but he doesn't really enjoy it or get violent with his family and friends.
  20. Sep 9, 2019

    Withnail Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    326
    Location:
    The Arena of the Unwell
    They aren't thick and know exaclty what they are doing imo. It's a completely disingenuous misrepresentation of what's happening and an attempt to convince the player that he should somehow be proud he's being treated this way as it's a sign of their respect of his talent and fear of what he can do on the pitch.

    It's almost laughable... Claiming Italy is some kind of utopia where racism doesn't exist therefore the monkey chants are ok.

    As for the posters getting warnings, even if you think you aren't condoning racism have a look at what you wrote again, as the posts quite clearly are. If you think you aren't that type of person maybe you need to take a long hard look at yourself. At the very least, take a moment to reflect on anything you write on the topic of racism before posting.
  21. Sep 9, 2019

    Arios New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Supports:
    Juventus
    Well most of Serie A ultras used to insult Siniša Mihajlović (so not exactly you average black player) as "zingaro di merda" which translate roughly as "shitty gypsy".
    In Italy is racial slur insulting neapolitans with "wash them with fire" (aka wishing for Vesuvio the vulcan to erupt" and FIGC condemn this the same way as racial abuse.
    But still people can't accept that they have to shut up over some stuff and keep getting their teams fined or with sectors/if not the full stadium closed as punishment.

    The funny thing is that there are people who should supervise these stuff and more often than not unrealistically there are tv records with racial chants but no "proof" from those people.
    So most of the times it goes unpunished.

    I remember that back then they used to chant something for Balotelli like "Se saltelli muore Balotelli" which translate into "if you jump Balotelli dies" = racial abuse = stadium closed down for 1 or 2 games
  22. Sep 9, 2019

    ThatsGreat Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    625
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    Its racist intimidation, both the racist side and the intimidation side are equally important. They're doing it on a highly charged football pitch, not in a grocery store and not to their own players but to those in the opposition.
    No I'm not saying they're not racist, they're definitely racist no two ways about it. I'm saying its part of the culture of Italy to do this form of intimidation and not enough is done to stop this. Hooligans were a big problem in England but enough was done to stop it and now we don't hear anything about it.
  23. Sep 9, 2019

    Tostao_80 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    463
    Downplaying this to intimidation and cheerleading perhaps says more about you as an individual. You seem to be condoning racism without realising it. Monkey chants to black players are racists, no if or buts. Take a closer look at yourself.
  24. Sep 9, 2019

    Tostao_80 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    463
    Yes. Many over in Italy think of black people as second class citizens. Whats even more bizzare is that many of that same lot wont even acknowledge it. They have a mountain of work to do.
  25. Sep 9, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    17,652
    Not sure what your point is here. Many of them also do it away from football.
  26. Sep 9, 2019

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,898
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    It does still feel that you're using this so-called cultural argument as a defence. They may deem it part of their 'culture', but to everyone else it's simply backward and racist. Shame Uefa don't have the spine to punitively punish Italian fans for persistent racism. Throw their club teams out of European competition, make them play for months behind closed doors and ban their national team from the World Cup. Maybe you'll get some action then.
  27. Sep 9, 2019

    Jaqen H'ghar I can't drive...55

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    657
    Then we agree. The culture has to be exposed for what it is and an effort made to change it.

    Naming it what it is and condemnation in no uncertain terms would be a start. No more of 'it's an isolated incident preformed by a few' or 'it looks like racism but it's really not'.

    Education, stadium bans, and holding the clubs accountable is the only way to get to the offending fans.
  28. Sep 9, 2019

    Ish Lights on for Luke

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    24,281
    Location:
    Where fans' expectations are too high
    Terrible still to be going through this in 2019, especially in the developed world. Seems like the world/people in the world, are just getting worse.
  29. Sep 9, 2019

    Withnail Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    326
    Location:
    The Arena of the Unwell
    It's definitely not getting worse. I know a certain element in society seems to have been emboldened in recent years but they were always there. Far, far worse things went on in the past and were positively encouraged by the establishment and laws of the time.

    As distasteful as this stuff is, at the very least it is being called out as wrong and things are changing. Unfortunately, the pace of progress isn't as quick as many of us would like but UEFA need to be a lot stricter if they are serious about 'kicking racism out of football'. Too often it seems like lip service when no real action is taken.
  30. Sep 9, 2019

    Ish Lights on for Luke

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    24,281
    Location:
    Where fans' expectations are too high
    Yeah, I agree. The rise of social media has also made these things a lot more "known" - whereas, as you've mentioned, it's always been there. We just probably never heard of it.

    Guess from my limited perspective/knowledge, it just feels like there has been a bit of a recent rise of the right-wing extremists in societies across the globe. But again, it probably has a bit more to do with media coverage/social media etc. I'm not really too clued up either way.
  31. Sep 9, 2019

    Mihai Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,028
    Based on my personal experience, it's general. I used to hear the "i am not racist, but..." on a daily basis.
  32. Sep 9, 2019

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    13,759
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    Became a media personality through politics. Took over the party that in the late 90s wanted the north to secede from the rest of the country and was very racist against southerners. Adapted it to current day needs(i.e. dropped the "north" from the party's name and turned it from "us good northerners against subhuman southerners living on our backs" to "italians vs bad subhuman non-western foreigners")

    Really only wants power and money, like virtually every other italian politician ever
  33. Sep 9, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    36,125
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Bizarre logic. Racism used to intimidate is not racism?
  34. Sep 9, 2019

    United58 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2019
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Ireland
    Off topic but his podcasts and especially his books are fantastic, Gladwell's storytelling ability is phenomenal. I highly recommend Outliers and Blink (if you haven't already read them). We need a rational voice like his in the United discussions :lol:
  35. Sep 9, 2019

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    75,310
    Location:
    Djibouti (La terre des braves)
    It's racism, period. What is this crazy trend of justifying it ? It doesn't matter the reasons they convince themselves of, it's racism, as simple as that.

    Spot on. It's a dumbass PR way of justifying their racism. These ultras know what they're doing, the worst for me is some fans from other teams fall for this pathetic excuse.
  36. Sep 9, 2019

    MadMike Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    8,063
    Location:
    London
    "We only hurl racist abuse because it unsettles opposition players. We're not racist, honest. Really the fault is with the players that are so sensitive to this type of abuse, they should just man up."


    Cognitive dissonance.
  37. Sep 9, 2019

    Isotope Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    13,122
    Supports:
    Ole Ole Ole
    That is a stupid reasoning. They should just sing about his baby is not his.
  38. Sep 9, 2019

    0le Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,588
    Has any club ever been deducted points for failure to tackle racist chanting? I think that should be considered the first step to tackle these persistent issues.
  39. Sep 9, 2019

    billybee99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2015
    Messages:
    282
    Agreed.
  40. Sep 9, 2019

    Raw Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    22,339
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    It'd have to be a points deduction if a whole section of fans are chanting racist garbage, or else you'd get rival fans abusing the system by getting their rival team docked points.

    It's inexcusable when a chunk of ultras come out with a statement like what Inter's did though, and punishment should really be utilised. At least ban those fans from the stadium.