Racism at Old Trafford

Thaila-X

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I'm mixed race and have never been on the receiving end of any racism at Old Trafford. Plenty of stuff you could class as sexist but never a single comment directed at me about my race.

There's always going to be chants that are close to the bone and chants that cross the line, the Hillsborough and Munich stuff for example will never be acceptable no matter how you try and justify it.
 

ryansgirl

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The worst I have heard was the Wenger-one - but that was just sick - not racist.
Why on earth was Wenger ever mentioned in association with that chant's topic? Did somebody say that he is gay? Some of the worst homophobic insults directed against gay men is that they are those kind of people.

Regardless of why Wenger was targeted that kind of insult plus homophobic slurs along with Hillsborough references/Munich references, chanting that players/managers should or do have diseases, should die etc are as unacceptable as racist/ethnic slurs. Every club should have a policy to throw out match-goers who shout or chant those things.
 

lsd

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Why on earth was Wenger ever mentioned in association with that chant's topic? Did somebody say that he is gay? Some of the worst homophobic insults directed against gay men is that they are those kind of people.

Regardless of why Wenger was targeted that kind of insult plus homophobic slurs along with Hillsborough references/Munich references, chanting that players/managers should or do have diseases, should die etc are as unacceptable as racist/ethnic slurs. Every club should have a policy to throw out match-goers who shout or chant those things.

I assume it was because he promoted a lot of younger players to the first team when he took over
 

freeurmind

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50082516

Three Chelsea fans face bans for racially abusing a fellow supporter at a Europa League game in April.

Jerome Bailey, 20, said he was subjected to slurs about his skin and hair during a tie at Slavia Prague.

He was also "disappointed" it took the club six months to contact him after providing names and seat numbers of the alleged perpetrators.

Chelsea have suspended the fans and have written to Bailey apologising for the delay.

The supporters could be banned for life, although the lengths of their suspensions have yet to be determined.
 

Speedicut75

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Back in the 80s it was endemic, not just at OT ( which was better than many, smaller, or lower division grounds ) but in recent years, maybe even upto the last 15 or so, I haven't heard anything. Verbal abuse, in other guises, still persists but the racist stuff seems to have largely gone. Mind you, I'm white, so maybe others will have less positive things to say?
 

Eckers99

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Nonsense . Lukaku chant was racist the Park one too and from Andy Cole missing a chance to Pogba today iv heard Utd fans being racist towards them .

Then you have the Heysel and Hillsborough chants which some idiots think is ok because they once heard a munich chant from a liverpool fan :rolleyes:

Even the Wenger chant was sick and moronic but Utd fans loved singing it

Try doing any of those things at your work or walking down the street and ask yourself why its not ok there but yet people think its fine at a football match
While i agree that some chants step over the line, and shouldn't be sung, you can't really compare what happens at the ground with what happens in work. They're completely different scenarios governed by totally different social contracts. You can't get drunk, shout, swear, jump around wildly, sing songs or fart loudly in work but football matches are one of the few places where you can do them all with impunity. It's part of the atmosphere and a traditional part of the ritual.
 

Philip McManus

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I would have absolutely no problem reporting someone if i overheard racist rhetoric coming from their mouths. I would question the intelligence of anyone who would pay to go and watch a football match only to spend their 90 mins abusing the players. ridiculous
 

Stookie

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Not for years. Can’t remember the last time either. But it did happen in the 80s I remember it as a kid when my brothers took me. It seemed worse at away grounds though. Every black player got stick whenever they got the ball. Thankfully times have moved on for the better although we still hear about incidents here and there.
 

christinaa

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Nonsense, if they were in any way unsure about his intentions they wouldn't have worn the t-shirts. They backed him 100%.

I'd have much preferred Carragher to come out and say this straight after the incident rather than when he is working alongside Evra. Still, better late than never. Doubt Dalglish will be offering any kind of public statement on it now either.
I agree with your comments.
 

Stacks

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Anyone who hears this vile shit first hand and doesn't report it can go feck themselves.

I don't give a shit what team you follow, a racist piece of shit is a racist piece of shit and should be booted out of the stadium and never allowed back.
Is this exclusive to racist bigots or homophobes, islamaphobes, transphobia or any kind of bigotry you hear? Genuine question
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Is this exclusive to racist bigots or homophobes, islamaphobes, transphobia or any kind of bigotry you hear? Genuine question
What answer would satisfy you. Genuine question.

Reads like you’re fishing here; there’s only one answer surely.
 

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Anyone who hears this vile shit first hand and doesn't report it can go feck themselves.

I don't give a shit what team you follow, a racist piece of shit is a racist piece of shit and should be booted out of the stadium and never allowed back.
Well said. I dislike Liverpool as a club intensely (remember the support of Suarez?), but racism has no part in our society. Trent Alexander Arnold is an opposition player, but seems to me to be a decent young man in general terms and should not be subject to racist shit.
 

Stacks

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What answer would satisfy you. Genuine question.

Reads like you’re fishing here; there’s only one answer surely.
Why on earth would it be exclusive of any kind of bigotry?
I hear all sorts being said at games. People making gay jokes and sexist jibes and no one seems to bat an eyelid. That's why I asked. Are we serious about removing all types of bigotry from games or just what is in the media at the minute? I recall people calling Campbell and Ashley Cole gay in the past at games
 

Handré1990

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Nonsense, if they were in any way unsure about his intentions they wouldn't have worn the t-shirts. They backed him 100%.

I'd have much preferred Carragher to come out and say this straight after the incident rather than when he is working alongside Evra. Still, better late than never. Doubt Dalglish will be offering any kind of public statement on it now either.
Good post. All true.
 

lysglimt

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I assume it was because he promoted a lot of younger players to the first team when he took over
No there were stories that with 99,99% certainty was just crap - I even think it was from before he came to the P.L
 

lysglimt

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Well said. I dislike Liverpool as a club intensely (remember the support of Suarez?), but racism has no part in our society. Trent Alexander Arnold is an opposition player, but seems to me to be a decent young man in general terms and should not be subject to racist shit.
What makes it so bizarre is that every club in the P.L have players who are black - so by screaming racist abuse at an opponents player, they are basically doing it towards the players of the team they support themselves. Which in a way tells you a lot about their IQ
 

Will Singh

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It depends what's interpreted as racism? Being from Indian decent I've had ain't you got a corner shop to open, or the old joke thrown at me about why Indians can't take corners because they'll build a shop on it. But I've always taken that as banter while I do know people who call that racism. Very easy to show the recism card while it might not be racism in whole.
 

momo83

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Only that Park chant

obviously joking
“Park, Park, wherever you may be
You eat dogs in your home country
But it could be worse...
You could be Scouse...
Eating rats in a council house!!!”

Remember this. It’s not intentionally racist and meant as banter. But no way it would be allowed today.

They put a stop to the big 8========D Lukaku one a few years ago.
 

The Don

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I hear all sorts being said at games. People making gay jokes and sexist jibes and no one seems to bat an eyelid. That's why I asked. Are we serious about removing all types of bigotry from games or just what is in the media at the minute? I recall people calling Campbell and Ashley Cole gay in the past at games
I think we'd love to have all forms of bigotry removed from games and I seriously hope it happens. I think (to be effective) we have to tackle one issue at a time, though and the racism element is more prevalent at the moment.
I mean it's not too long ago when calling someone gay/fag etc. was (seen to be) funny, at that time. Considering racist chants only started to be frowned upon since the late 70's early 80's and yet it's STILL going on, makes it the more important issue to tackle, for me.
 

ryansgirl

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“Park, Park, wherever you may be
You eat dogs in your home country
But it could be worse...
You could be Scouse...
Eating rats in a council house!!!”

Remember this. It’s not intentionally racist and meant as banter. But no way it would be allowed today.
They put a stop to the big 8========D Lukaku one a few years ago.
I see what you mean about the Park song but again, references to the basic knowledge that Koreans eat dog is not racist. You can express surprise or dislike about a culinary habit but to call it 'racist' expresses misunderstanding of what that actually means. If you added other things then yes it would become racist.
I've lived in Korea and the response I have always had from people who know little about the culture and daily life there, is did I try dog meat and why they wouldn't want to.
As an Aussie who has lived in two different East Asian countries - still living in one - similar questions were asked of me in Korea about kangaroo meat and now in my second country about the same.
These questions came from people whose country tells them to be proud of their mono-cultural society and that they are 'pure blooded' Koreans and Japanese. Their education system from kindergarten through to high school is based on that notion despite some lip service now to 'diversity' and the western media taking official statements and many other things at face value.
There are also differences of opinions by some in those countries of course but they are not driving those societies.
Many things I have heard in both countries were certainly based on ethnocentrism, drawing clear boundaries between the people native to the country and outsiders, and yes, racism in the sense that it comes from the notion that others are inferior in one or some ways because they were not born with your ethnicity - the word 'race' is actually too broad.
However, questions about kangaroo meat, and some other stereotypes about Aussies and 'outside people' were common and not based on bigotry/racism. Many Koreans and Japanese people have told me they think it's strange or not good to eat kangaroos - and their opinion is fine. I don't eat kangaroo.
BTW - I always have and always will refuse to eat dog meat. I always told my Korean co-workers and friends please do exactly as you like there but I don't want to try it.
The horror of the hanging and other prolonged torturing of dogs in their meat markets, the unbelievable cruelty of big dogs in cages out in the boiling Korean sun where they have zero room to move including in some scumbags' gardens and other personal property, and the criminal activity of driving around and snatching pets of the street to take to those places of horror mean I refuse to eat dog meat.
The lack of animal protection laws and basic standards of animal treatment there makes many of us respond in a way that recoils from dog meat eating. It is strange to those who don't eat it hence the Park chant at the level of culinary differences.
 
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What makes it so bizarre is that every club in the P.L have players who are black - so by screaming racist abuse at an opponents player, they are basically doing it towards the players of the team they support themselves. Which in a way tells you a lot about their IQ
Couldn't agree more - well said.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Got to laugh though, haven't seen that dude for a while.

Is it any worse than our Lukaku chant though ?
Given everything that is going on they not only ordered, paid for it and took it to Genk you would have thought someone would have said is this a good idea? Singing a song while in bad taste and probably being sung by mostly drunk fans is a bit different.
 

Eckers99

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Some fans still seem pretty confused about what constitutes racism / blatant racial stereotyping. The feck is wrong with these people?
 

lsd

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Got to laugh though, haven't seen that dude for a while.

Is it any worse than our Lukaku chant though ?

Yes they are both the same and mocking a stereotype is racist
 

Prometheus

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“Park, Park, wherever you may be
You eat dogs in your home country
But it could be worse...
You could be Scouse...
Eating rats in a council house!!!”

Remember this. It’s not intentionally racist and meant as banter. But no way it would be allowed today.
Never heard it before, but that's without a doubt racist. No two ways about it.
 

RMD83

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Dont agree at all - not racist as far as Im concerned, in fact it's an all time classic chant in my book!
You should feel ashamed of yourself then. In fact you should feel twice as ashamed for also suggesting that all scousers live in council houses. Disgusting.
 

arthurka

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As a black man I have never wanted to sing about or photoshop a white mans penis.

Can I ask the caucasian population WTF is this phenomenon!?
:lol: I don't know.. White as snow but never really understood the fixation on black guy manhood. Strange one really.
 

Dante

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_Korea

[A]pproximately 780,000 to 1 million dogs are consumed per year in South Korea.
To deny that stat is to deny the good work that the Korean Animal Rights Advocates (KARA) are doing.

Eating dogs is something that happens in South Korea. But United fans love Park so much that they don't care. And in actual fact, despite the cultural differences, they still feel closer to him than they do to Scousers.

The song is about connecting to Park regardless of his race or cultural background.