Racism in Italy - even anti-racism is filled with racism

Bepi

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Can you evidentially prove that Bolo used a victim card rather then actually being upset? You have presented your subjectieve view as an absolute truth, which is ‘almost’ borderline narcistic..

You can also use logic and rational and recognize a certain pattern of behavior from the players who get racial slurs thrown at them, which consists of them either not wanting to play anymore or it affecting their game which is totally understandable. Have people ever used the ‘victim’ outside of football in real life , sure, it would be naive to claim the opposite. However, to write such a lazy post and then also present it as a ‘fact’ is wide of the mark. Shall i throw the fallacy of ignorance in this too?
balotelli is expressely targeted by ultras everywhere in italy since his boyish days at inter for having walked on his team shirt after being booed for a misfiring performance in 2010... that’s where it started

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Seri...ti-felice-tranne-balotelli-603714113989.shtml
 

Superden

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not upset at all, just dividing facts from opinions, in fact the situation now is so overblown every part is milking its own business, verona mayor included willing to sue anyone out there claiming that verona is a racist city; this is an international forum with its own vibe and everyone is rightly entitled to express their view but just ignoring the context makes for fantasies, wishful thinking and distortions of the facts
the facts are that balotelli was racially abused. it is not upto me or you to decide whether he is entitled to feel agrieved / upset by that.

as for your noise about 'context'. there is no context in which racial discrimination / abuse is valid or justified. thats not a 'vibe', that just normal human decency.
 
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Bepi

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the facts are that balotelli was racially abused. it is not upto me or you to decide whether he is entitled to feel agrieved / upset by that.

as for your noise about 'context'. there is no context in which racial discrimination / abuse is valid or justified. thats not a 'vibe', that just normal human decency.
listen, you can ignore fecking user Bepi and just read zanetti, paolillo, mourinho, stankovic and baggio from the gazzetta article above in 2010; they say exactly what i’m saying, that is you do not interact with people on the stands (because it is dangerous, it poses risks for safety & security from having thousand of peoples constrained and titillated); for the rest, again, you can just read as many threads as it goes here on the caf to find discrimination and abuse well against human decency, but intelligent people understand the ‘context’ and react accordingly
 

Superden

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listen, you can ignore fecking user Bepi and just read zanetti, paolillo, mourinho, stankovic and baggio from the gazzetta article above in 2010; they say exactly what i’m saying, that is you do not interact with people on the stands (because it is dangerous, it poses risks for safety & security from having thousand of peoples constrained and titillated); for the rest, again, you can just read as many threads as it goes here on the caf to find discrimination and abuse well against human decency, but intelligent people understand the ‘context’ and react accordingly
this is dissapearing down some deranged rabbit hole, alice in wonderland style.

whether or not Balotelli jumps into the curva and lays out 20 of the knuckle draggers or takes a dump on any football shirt or just stands there lost in his own thoughts, there is no context / excuse for people to abuse him with racist language / gestures.

bepi - it begins and ends there, this is a discussion about racism and racist abuse of players. doesnt matter how many other factors or whataboutery you introduce into it, if you cant accept that racism is not acceptable, ever, then its time for the the head wobble.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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balotelli is expressely targeted by ultras everywhere in italy since his boyish days at inter for having walked on his team shirt after being booed for a misfiring performance in 2010... that’s where it started

https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Seri...ti-felice-tranne-balotelli-603714113989.shtml
And therefore it is justitied that racial slurs are being thrown at him? From all the things they can think of to ‘retaliate’, they chose skin colour right? That was just an incident right? Considering you decided to include references, let me do the same thing. The last two years there are about 80 recorded cases of racist incidents at youth level. Quote:

Children as young as 12 are suffering racist abuse from adversaries and spectators, according to an independent organisation that collates data on racism incidents.’

Source> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...l-a-scourge-of-youth-game-too-say-campaigners


Even Conte admitted that the racism in italy is getting ‘worse’ (see article).

Furthermore, what is the opinion of FIFA chief Infantino? Quote;

You can't have racism in society or in football. In Italy the situation hasn’t improved and this is serious‘

Source~ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ls-italian-football-authorities-idUSKBN1W70XB


So thus far, i quoted
-Mauro Valeri, who leads the Observatory on Racism in Football.
-Conte, an italian manager
-FIFA chief G. ifantino

To deny that racism is actually happening in Italy at this point is ignorant and foolish to say the least. Are you actually denying this?
 

Bepi

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this is dissapearing down some deranged rabbit hole, alice in wonderland style.

whether or not Balotelli jumps into the curva and lays out 20 of the knuckle draggers or takes a dump on any football shirt or just stands there lost in his own thoughts, there is no context / excuse for people to abuse him with racist language / gestures.

bepi - it begins and ends there, this is a discussion about racism and racist abuse of players. doesnt matter how many other factors or whataboutery you introduce into it, if you cant accept that racism is not acceptable, ever, then its time for the the head wobble.
I rest my case, isolating one thing from the rest is sociopathy not whataboutery.
 

Bepi

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And therefore it is justitied that racial slurs are being thrown at him? From all the thing they can think of to ‘retaliate’, they chose skin colour right? That was just an incident right? Considering you decided to include references, let me do the same thing. The last two years there are about 80 recorded cases of racist incidents at youth level. Quote:

Children as young as 12 are suffering racist abuse from adversaries and spectators, according to an independent organisation that collates data on racism incidents.’

Source> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...l-a-scourge-of-youth-game-too-say-campaigners


Even Conte admitted that the racism in italy is getting ‘worse’ (see article).

What is the opinion of FIFA chief Infantino also said:

You can't have racism in society or in football. In Italy the situation hasn’t improved and this is serious‘

Source~ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ls-italian-football-authorities-idUSKBN1W70XB


So thus far, i quoted
-Mauro Valeri, who leads the Observatory on Racism in Football.
-Conte, an italian manager
-FIFA chief G. ifantino

To deny that racism is actually happening in Italy at this point is ignorant and foolish to say the least.



Today from Bergamonews.it, another black player abused and retired: https://www.bergamonews.it/2019/11/...calcio-ma-vorrei-incontrare-balotelli/334895/

he explains that as: "Sempre più spesso si offendono i giocatori di colore per farli innervosire o espellere. Per qualcuno ogni mezzo vale pur di vincere una partita, ma la discriminazione va lasciata fuori" aka “Black players are increasingly offended to make them nervous or sent out. For anyone, every means is worth to win a game, but discrimination must be left out"

I am all in favour of making stadia theatres, if you want, just use the hammer to hit the nail in the wall properly.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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Today from Bergamonews.it, another black player abused and retired: https://www.bergamonews.it/2019/11/...calcio-ma-vorrei-incontrare-balotelli/334895/

he explains that as: "Sempre più spesso si offendono i giocatori di colore per farli innervosire o espellere. Per qualcuno ogni mezzo vale pur di vincere una partita, ma la discriminazione va lasciata fuori" aka “Black players are increasingly offended to make them nervous or sent out. For anyone, every means is worth to win a game, but discrimination must be left out"

I am all in favour of making stadia theatres, if you want, just use the hammer to hit the nail in the wall properly.
Let’s reboot the conversation. Are you denying that racism exsists in Italy , in this case from far right fans towards players of ‘colour’ ? A simple yes or no would suffice.

This narrative of the far right ultra’s trying to explain that the intention of racial slurs is not about racism, but merely a tool to make the players nervous is absolutely laughable. Its obviously just a silly way of them trying to normalise their racism. To regurgitate this narrative is part of the problem, which begs the question, are you part of the problem? ..
 
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Bepi

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Let’s reboot the conversation. Are you denying that racism exsists in Italy , in this case from far right fans towards players of ‘colour’ ? A simple yes or no would suffice.
Racism with its historical baggage a la kkk does not exist (not yet) among the general public in Italy. Racism as a more and more vocal way to abuse, discriminate or “defend own perceived identity” (as portrayed by far right politicians) is rampant and on the up.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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Racism with its historical baggage a la kkk does not exist (not yet) among the general public in Italy. Racism as a more and more vocal way to abuse, discriminate or “defend own perceived identity” (as portrayed by far right politicians) is rampant and on the up.
So, racism used with the intention to discriminate in italian football does exsist?
 

Bepi

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So, racism used with the intention to discriminate black players does exsist?
yes it does, black players get their own particular kind of abuse from the general public more and more in a similar way to any other group not belonging to the triadic “god, land, family” from far right propaganda
 

JPRouve

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I don't know if @Bepi is trying to show that racism isn't really a thing in Italy or make sure that we understand that Italy has a nasty society.:lol:
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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yes it does, black players get their own particular kind of abuse from the general public more and more in a similar way to any other group not belonging to the triadic “god, land, family” from far right propaganda
Thank you, you have finally admitted that racism does exsist from football fans towards black players. Surely, this wasnt that troublesome to acknowledge? Now, that you have admitted racism exsist, the next meaningful question is the question how to avoid it? It doesnt help that the italian football federation for example fined Cagliari for throwing bottles, but not for racist monkey chants towards Moise Kean. It's also vey unproductive that your own team mate, in this case, Bonucci, states that Moise Kean was provocating the fans. That is the equivelant of blaming a rape victim for dressing 'inappropriately'. It also doesnt help when Lukaku is racially abused and his own 'fans' write a letter to defend the racism by twisting the narrative that racism is used as a tool to distract players, not to hurt them. You see the patterns here dont you?
 

Bepi

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I don't know if @Bepi is trying to show that racism isn't really a thing in Italy or make sure that we understand that Italy has a nasty society.:lol:
the latter, really :lol: , we just know ourselves
 

LazyRed-Ninja

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I don't know if @Bepi is trying to show that racism isn't really a thing in Italy or make sure that we understand that Italy has a nasty society.:lol:
It took a while, but he finally admitted it. He was digging a hole for himself during the enterity of the conversation :lol:. Denying that racism towards black footballer exsist would be very foolish and could have been a reflection of his own 'beliefs')..
 

Bepi

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It took a while, but he finally admitted it. He was digging a hole for himself during the enterity of the conversation :lol:. Denying that racism towards black footballer exsist would be very foolish and could have been a reflection of his own 'beliefs')..
I do not know what you are really trying to prove, I am just saying that Italy is worst than that and southerners or cuckokds still outnumber black people over here, so re-education of the general public has bigger priorities, if any.
 

Prometheus

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I do not know what you are really trying to prove, I am just saying that Italy is worst than that and southerners or cuckokds still outnumber black people over here, so re-education of the general public has bigger priorities, if any.
What do you think should happen to those caught racially abusing a player from the stands? How should clubs and the Italian football federations deal with the issue in your opinion?
 

Bepi

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What do you think should happen to those caught racially abusing a player from the stands? How should clubs and the Italian football federations deal with the issue in your opinion?
The English set of rules for attending and controlling games is pretty good, provided that clubs can be freed of the ultras / mob-like groups / real mobsters blackmailing them for secondary tickets and nuisance control. Sure, by renouncing ultras’ organised vocal support your stadium becomes a theatre, but here we are... that or a sh*tstorm any other week.
 

Prometheus

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The English set of rules for attending and controlling games is pretty good, provided that clubs can be freed of the ultras / mob-like groups / real mobsters blackmailing them for secondary tickets and nuisance control. Sure, by renouncing ultras’ organised vocal support your stadium becomes a theatre, but here we are... that or a sh*tstorm any other week.
Do you think those caught racially abusing a player or chanting racist abuse should be handed a life-time ban? Perhaps the answer is enclosed in your post above, but it isn't very clear to me.
 

Bepi

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Do you think those caught racially abusing a player or chanting racist abuse should be handed a life-time ban? Perhaps the answer is enclosed in your post above, but it isn't very clear to me.
Again, I do not know what you are trying to prove here? I do not control anything and do not owe anything to you? The answer is pretty clear, ban any kind of abuse and every abuser from football? Life-time ban, the neo-nazi from Verona we discussed earlier this day has been banned until 30 Jun 2030... is this enough? Not? Maybe? Your say.
 

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Do you think those caught racially abusing a player or chanting racist abuse should be handed a life-time ban? Perhaps the answer is enclosed in your post above, but it isn't very clear to me.
The answer is no. A life time ban is OTT. People change and learn.
 

Prometheus

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Again, I do not know what you are trying to prove here? I do not control anything and do not owe anything to you? The answer is pretty clear, ban any kind of abuse and every abuser from football? Life-time ban, the neo-nazi from Verona we discussed earlier this day has been banned until 30 Jun 2030... is this enough? Not? Maybe? Your say.
Who said you owe anything to me? I don't know why you feel so uncomfortable to answer very simple questions and overload your answers ("any kind of abuse", "every abuser" etc).
 

Bepi

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Who said you owe anything to me? I don't know why you feel so uncomfortable to answer very simple questions and overload your answers ("any kind of abuse", "every abuser" etc).
I do not really have to answer questions, do I? We are at page 15 here, so there is smoke and there is fire.
 

Prometheus

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I do not really have to answer questions, do I? We are at page 15 here, so there is smoke and there is fire.
Perhaps you don't realise it but you've already answered my question.

Shame on you for you sympathising with these racist cretins.
 

Soph

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any problem, folks? These are the facts, you can have your own opinions
No, I don't have a problem. I'm simply pointing out that you're not only excusing racist attacks, you're putting the blame on the victims. You're not only putting the blame on the victims, you're ridiculing them for being the victims that they are.

Racism is an institutional problem. Racism in football will not go away as long as racism in society will not go away, and it won't. Racism in the stands will not go away as long as the ruling bodies are not only excusing the racism, but even defending the perpetrators, and they will keep on doing that. For us people without power there's very little we can do about that.

What we can do, is to speak up, loudly, when shit like this happens. We can defend the victims, we can protest the pieces of shit who do nothing, we can boycott, we can pressure the media, the clubs, and the ruling bodies. It will probably not work, and if it does work it probably not do much, but as powerless people it's basically the only way. Media campaigns seem to have some effect, at least in the short term (e.g. the horrid treatment of Raheem Sterling), so maybe.

You won't do any of that. You will defend the attackers, you will defend the institutions protecting the racists, and you will attack the victims. You should be denied entry to any football vanue for the rest of your life, but you won't be. You won't be because football is set up to protect people like you, not upstanding people like Mario Balotelli.
 
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Soph

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Anyone else Google cuckokd?

:lol:
If you did, then you'd probably find a dictionary definition about a man, willingly or unwillingly, having an unfaithful wife. What you will not find is the modern online use of the word, often abbreviated to 'cuck'. It means that the target succumbs to whatever the speaker deems derogatory. For instance, many far right people will deem other conservatives, or other people at all, that are open to immigration as 'cucks', because they think they're either being raped by immigrants or letting immigrants feck their country.

Bepi being the person he is, you decide how he meant it.
 

Bepi

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If you did, then you'd probably find a dictionary definition about a man, willingly or unwillingly, having an unfaithful wife. What you will not find is the modern online use of the word, often abbreviated to 'cuck'. It means that the target succumbs to whatever the speaker deems derogatory. For instance, many far right people will deem other conservatives, or other people at all, that are open to immigration as 'cucks', because they think they're either being raped by immigrants or letting immigrants feck their country.

Bepi being the person he is, you decide how he meant it.
you know what, you won’t find any name calling or ad personam definition from me in 1.6k messages here, while you and many others have plenty and in this same topic, moreover taking 100 random topics in this same forum... so you all may find convenient to make peace with your own issues before projecting them on an unknown quantity on the internet or anywhere else, just because I do not give a feck and yet you still have to fight them... on the merit, the world is not black or white, you need power, knowledge and intelligence to navigate the shades of gray (or grey? no pun intended for another misinterpretation of another ipad misspelling) and hit the problems where they really lie, so you need context (power + knowledge + intelligence) instead of selective bias or simplistic assumptions.
 

Bennz McCarthey17

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you know what, you won’t find any name calling or ad personam definition from me in 1.6k messages here, while you and many others have plenty and in this same topic, moreover taking 100 random topics in this same forum... so you all may find convenient to make peace with your own issues before projecting them on an unknown quantity on the internet or anywhere else, just because I do not give a feck and yet you still have to fight them... on the merit, the world is not black or white, you need power, knowledge and intelligence to navigate the shades of gray (or grey? no pun intended for another misinterpretation of another ipad misspelling) and hit the problems where they really lie, so you need context (power + knowledge + intelligence) instead of selective bias or simplistic assumptions.
I've never understood people like you. You defend racism because it's being pepetrated by people who look like you?. That it makes you seem patriotic for some reason?, I just don't get it.
My great great grandmother was Italian by the way. And I'm black, (see the conflict) so I'm trying to understand why are you Italians so racist, and why people like you defend it. What are black people doing, or have done to you people that you feel you have to act this way towards them?
 
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Ramos

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It just keeps getting better and better ...

In a disturbing twist, Brescia ultras released a statement defending Hellas Verona fans after racist abuse and calling Mario Balotelli “arrogant.”

This is the latest chapter in an increasingly ugly saga, after Balotelli kicked the ball into the stands during the 2-1 defeat to Verona, as he heard racist ‘monkey noises’ coming from a group of ultras.

Verona coach Ivan Juric, President Maurizio Setti and even the Mayor of Verona all rushed to defend the fans, claiming there was no racist abuse, even when it was caught on video and clearly audible.

Now there is another even more shocking turn of events, as a group of Brescia ultras – Balotelli’s club – have come out against the striker and in favour of Luca Castellini, the Verona fan who was banned until 2030 after aiming a series of racist slurs at the player in an interview.

“If Balotelli was not ready psychologically to face the Verona fanbase and, above all, such a delicate match in which our city and our coach – among the most beloved figures – was taking his final chance at saving his job, then he should’ve said so and left his place to someone less… irritable than him. None of us would’ve been upset if he had, quite the contrary…” read the statement.
...
https://www.football-italia.net/146194/brescia-fans-back-verona-not-balotelli
 

do.ob

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Might be easier to pick the Italian clubs that don't have a deep racism problem at this point?