Jeez, that's straight-up shocking. Do they even realise what kind of image they're sending to the rest of the world or are they that oblivious?
Racism in Italy - even anti-racism is filled with racism
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Hmm. Couple of things.
Italy might not be completely up to speed, i get that, but they don't live in some kind of vacuum either. Unlike the UK or the US in the 70s they actually have an example. They know how the rest of the western world thinks because they get influenced by American/English culture all the time (the term Black Friday alone is proof of that).
Another thing is that other western non-American/British countries don't do this stuff because they know how it will be perceived. It's not just an American/British culture thing. You won't see a French, Belgian or Dutch major newspaper do this.
While it's far from the worst thing they've done, i wouldn't attribute this to sheer ignorance so fast.
It's rooted in the 1970s and early 80s.
The Sun would carry headlines like that back in the day.
Even the next town along sometimes, never mind just foreigners.
I've said this before but I don't think its typical racism. I've lived in Italy a while now and people here are always trying to assert themselves over others. Race is the easiest way for them to do it if someone is black. They don't dislike them necessarily, they just think they're better, like they think they're better than every other region or town in Italy that's not theirs.
There may be something in this. We live in the Le Marche region. Someone told me last week that there's a saying in a neighbouring region that translates as "It's better to have a corpse in your house than a Marchigiano on your doorstep".
He's out of replies forever, not just until tomorrow.
I've a Pakistani friend who went there with his Italian girlfriend and kept getting mistaken for Italian because he's olive-skinned and would be spoken to in Italian to which he'd stare blankly and let them know, somehow, that he's neither Italian or able to speak the language.
He got a lot of tuts, but said one guy actually wanted to fight him when he found out he was Pakistani and not Italian, for whatever reason.
He said he'll never go back again. This was 2009, though, don't know if he'd try again now.
I found it to be a place where people have no hesitation in telling you what's on their mind, for better or worse. Had people coming up to me and asking how tall I am, had females being, shall we say, overt in eye contact (and what have you) with my other half right there next to me and us clearly being a couple!
so it is a culture shock.Racially, as there's no reprimand for acting like that there, I'm sure emboldens actions, and as long as you remain in the safety of your region/city, you'll neither know or care about consequences unless you wish to inform yourself or travel to other countries where the same actions you can be flippant with where you're from can cost you dearly elsewhere.
It barely makes sense until you go there and sample the cultural differences first-hand and then extrapolate to why a supposed 1st world society can be so ignorant and/or insensitive.
Mate's girlfriend is Italian and she said casual racism among the public is huge and she despises it.
Subtle bragI've a Pakistani friend who went there with his Italian girlfriend and kept getting mistaken for Italian because he's olive-skinned and would be spoken to in Italian to which he'd stare blankly and let them know, somehow, that he's neither Italian or able to speak the language.
He got a lot of tuts, but said one guy actually wanted to fight him when he found out he was Pakistani and not Italian, for whatever reason.
He said he'll never go back again. This was 2009, though, don't know if he'd try again now.
I found it to be a place where people have no hesitation in telling you what's on their mind, for better or worse. Had people coming up to me and asking how tall I am, had females being, shall we say, overt in eye contact (and what have you) with my other half right there next to me and us clearly being a couple!
Racially, as there's no reprimand for acting like that there, I'm sure emboldens actions, and as long as you remain in the safety of your region/city, you'll neither know or care about consequences unless you wish to inform yourself or travel to other countries where the same actions you can be flippant with where you're from can cost you dearly elsewhere.
It barely makes sense until you go there and sample the cultural differences first-hand and then extrapolate to why a supposed 1st world society can be so ignorant and/or insensitive.
Ha! essential for the post!
More amusing to recall because of the reactions from my OH!
It’s like they’re doing it on purpose.This headline is just fecking rotten.
Also RE the posts above, I’m Indian and didn’t have a problem in Italy when I went last year, the people were extremely nice everywhere I went.
I don't see how this solves anything in terms of racism in Italy.
Plus it was the media not a club official or supporters
We don’t exactly have a great track record in the UK when it comes to stupid and offensive headlines
Le is an article, doesn't need it
Also that saying sounds like somebody lied to you. That saying does exist, but it's between Pisa and Livorno. Well it's possible somebody ripped that off too i guess
But anyways, yeah, i've said it several times: we kinda just hate everyone
Sigh. Italians are the most socially tone-deaf culture I've ever encountered, and I come from one.This headline is just fecking rotten.
This is the perception I got when it visited Italy. If you're not Italian feck off and leave. If you are Italian feck off but you can stay.
@Fortitude not to burst your bubble mate but keeping eye contact is kinda of normal over here when speaking to strangers. It's good manners
Although it's also possible you're just extremely handsome and those were indeed flirty looks, too, i guess
Although it's also possible you're just extremely handsome and those were indeed flirty looks, too, i guess
In your town/city/region. We don't want you over here in our town/city/region
Well, removing them from tournaments until they change their racist ways surely would have some of their fans change their tune. As things are and have always been, nothing will change in Italy.
I don't think racism this frequent and systematic will be stamped out by measures like these. This can only be resolved by the Italians themselves if they want it or not.
The Italians don't seem to want to resolve it. I think they should be punished for it.
In some ways I wonder how much if it isn't kind of part of a larger issue which is that it seems to me Italians (not all of course) - seem to be Ill equipped to deal with anything that is perceived to be different. Even as a Caucasian man I've had my run ins in Italy because I probably didn't fit the mold. For a country as rich in cultural wealth and with it mass amounts of tourism its almost shocking how tone deaf some folks there seem to be. I get it, dealing with hordes of tourists can suck but I've literally gotten into a near fight because they refused to have my sick wife use a restroom when there wasn't anything else around for miles because we weren't guests of the hotel/restaurant and getting very aggressive about the denial, people not lifting a finger literally and figuratively when I'm clearly confused about how some of their gas stations work (I. E. The payment methods for them are often wacky as hell). Restaurants workers giving me all sorts of attitudes for multitudes of silly reasons including switching prices right in front of me, etc. Hospitality in general often seems to be hard to find, at least with strangers.
Don't get me wrong - I still consider Italy one of my favorite places to visit - but it helps that I'm generally fairly independent in the way that I can travel through it. If I offended any Italians here with the above I do apologize. My opinions are my own.
Don't get me wrong - I still consider Italy one of my favorite places to visit - but it helps that I'm generally fairly independent in the way that I can travel through it. If I offended any Italians here with the above I do apologize. My opinions are my own.
AS Roma banned Corriere dello Sport from Trigoria until June.
AC Milan too i heard
AC Milan too i heard
They banned the journal for "the rest of the year"
https://www.asroma.com/en/news/2019/12/as-roma-and-ac-milan-issue-ban-to-corriere-dello-sport
https://www.asroma.com/en/news/2019/12/as-roma-and-ac-milan-issue-ban-to-corriere-dello-sport
This is accurate. No offense but Italy is the last country I would want to live as a black man. The only thing that saved me from getting treated like absolute shit (African panhandlers) was my American accent and build. Even still I have some pretty negative stories in my short stint there. The nicest Italians were those who spoke English
. Weirdly I felt more welcome in Turin than Milan. I felt absolutely loathed in Venice, but nothing to do with race and understandable as 90% of the place is overrun with American and Commonwealth tourists who have turned those lovely islands into glorified outdoor malls and photoshoots.Tweet
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There's definitely no blanket experience for people of colour in Italy and I hope my post didn't imply that. Just as there are some terrible people there, there are also many friendly, curious and welcoming ones, too. I think the problem in such a country is that when things are bad, they are well beyond the pale and the reprimand for it far less than one would expect from a country that is supposed to be a leading light for others people expect no less from.
Ahaha! Noooo! I was not hallucinating! I got a good few 'come get me's' with the rotating swivel head that were flagrant and disrespectful to the OH, but also funny because she was having none of it after a while. If I were a single man, it would be right up there as a place to visit, pronto!@Fortitude not to burst your bubble mate but keeping eye contact is kinda of normal over here when speaking to strangers. It's good manners
Although it's also possible you're just extremely handsome and those were indeed flirty looks, too, i guess
Another thing, Italian women carry themselves with such pride and posture. It's funny because it's self-belief and confidence that isn't predicated on how pretty they are or aren't. This was refreshing because confidence of that nature would be seen as arrogance, of sorts, over here rather than just pride of self.
I digress!
Italians hating foreigners and immigrants is the ultimate black belt level of hypocrisy. How many descendants of italian immigrants around the world? We have close to 30 millions here.
@kouroux
Seems they did react this time, I'll put my butter-knives down.
Seems they did react this time, I'll put my butter-knives down.
I mean it won't change the italians supporters and the italian culture this easily.
Just to be clear I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished but punishing them won't solve things in reality, ban all italian clubs from european competitions even, it won't stop the racist jeers, the monkey noises in Italian stadiums. This is just to give some a good conscious that something has been done
Thanks for taking the time giving out your experiences @Penna, @Fortitude, @11101, and @Kostur . Reading other posts (by Italian posters) It seems like it's hard to separate culture or pure racism.
PS: I like Smalling respond better. It sounds firm but respectful. No bias, of course.
And this still makes laugh hard.
PS: I like Smalling respond better. It sounds firm but respectful. No bias, of course.
And this still makes laugh hard.
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Just wait for the headline, ‘economic crisis caused by bankers’ and then have a picture of a ‘jewish’ family in the background celebrating pass over.. the same media outlets would shout their lungs out about ‘racism’ or ‘anti semitic’ headlines. Yes there are tribal behaviors among people, but ‘mainstream’ media printing these type of headlines only add more instability towards a potential solution to this problem. Some german scientists back in the day know a thing or two about using media to denigrate other ‘groups’ of people. Dont get me wrong, im not comparing the two, but such headlines are highly insensitive, no matter the cultural mechanisms within a country. There is no excuse for racial division or denigration in the ‘western liberal modern democracy’ right?
I don't feel hated here, just the opposite. Having said that, we try to fit in and be respectful of the local ways of doing things. People are extremely friendly to me when I'm out and about, but then, they're used to seeing me now.
Lukaku and Smalling left United, a year after we signed Dalot. I'm sure there's nothing to this.
Thanks for taking the time giving out your experiences @Penna, @Fortitude, @11101, and @Kostur . Reading other posts (by Italian posters) It seems like it's hard to separate culture or pure racism.
PS: I like Smalling respond better. It sounds firm but respectful. No bias, of course.
And this still makes laugh hard.
Great picture.
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They are absolutely in denial. Since when is Italy a “Northern European” country that alone shows an insight into their ideology.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) dateDemba Ba: "And here's the reason why I decided not to play there when I could... And at that point I wish all the black players would get out of this league! Surely it won't stop their stupidity and hate but at least they won't affect other races."
Has anyone seen the new anti racism advert approved by the Italian FA currently trending on twitter ?
It's a picture of three monkeys for some reason ???
It's a picture of three monkeys for some reason ???