Racism in Italy - even anti-racism is filled with racism

Fridge chutney

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I swear this forum has gotten worse with these threads about racism in the past year or so.

This thread is just spilling over with ignorance.
Agreed. Thread is quite the trainwreck. Very sad to see.
 

Sara125

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What do you qualify as ignorance?
I’d argue that people use the word “racist” erroneously and ignorantly (though not really in the Lukaku case).

I can’t comment on the situation in Italy, I don’t think anyone not living there can, but in Britain people conflate the word “racism” with “culturalism”. Racism is, by its definition, the assertion of genetic superiority of one race over another (see Nazi germany for the clearest example). I would say that bar a tiny, fringe minority, almost no one in Britain thinks they’re genetically superior on the basis of melanin levels in their skin. Too many BAME politicians, doctors, lawyers, sportsmen etc for the argument to stand up. There’s clearly no superior race on the basis of skin colour, it has been demonstrably proven.
Instead, people assert the superiority of their culture over another, which is why your Tommy Robinson’s etc target Muslims almost exclusively. They’re not complaining that they’re brown, it’s the Koran, the Niqab etc that draw their ire.

Race, culture and the conflicts they create are complex but the situation is improving, despite the rhetoric to the contrary. The Britain of my childhood was vastly more racist than the one of today, but progress is slower than we’d like. However, when you’ve got an ageing population and more old people than ever before in human history, and the completely undiscussed impact that has on the speed of social progress, one can’t expect things to improve overnight.

Either that or I’m dense, unthinking and completely ignorant...
So many things wrong with this post but the BIB is the worst. You are basically saying that racism doesn’t exist because there are black doctors :confused:
 

passing-wind

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Some of these posts are concerning, a professional athlete should never, never, never, have to consider his position in making a decision based on the relativity of discrimination and abuse. He / she shouldn't have to because it's a formality that should not be there to begin with, two wrongs don't make a right.

Lukaku getting racially abused in Italy doesn't leave the impetus on him, the fault lies solely with the ethical standards set by the fans aswell as the neighbouring communities and societies. Serie A superiors are pathetic and the club's are pathetic too. Silence often speaks louder than the recognition of a voice, the fact these clubs seemingly have no voices concerning the state of decay their fans prevail in is a disgrace. UEFA can also be thrown into that category another joke of an organisation.
 

Ramos

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Imagine genuinely thinking Tommy Robinson is really just upset by the Koran ...
 

ThatsGreat

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Damn. Sometimes I just don't know what to say
The smiley indicates that my response was tongue in cheek. I'm surprised that you're responding in this way when I've clearly backtracked and accepted your point.
 

Tostao_80

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What do you qualify as ignorance?
I’d argue that people use the word “racist” erroneously and ignorantly (though not really in the Lukaku case).

I can’t comment on the situation in Italy, I don’t think anyone not living there can, but in Britain people conflate the word “racism” with “culturalism”. Racism is, by its definition, the assertion of genetic superiority of one race over another (see Nazi germany for the clearest example). I would say that bar a tiny, fringe minority, almost no one in Britain thinks they’re genetically superior on the basis of melanin levels in their skin. Too many BAME politicians, doctors, lawyers, sportsmen etc for the argument to stand up. There’s clearly no superior race on the basis of skin colour, it has been demonstrably proven.
Instead, people assert the superiority of their culture over another, which is why your Tommy Robinson’s etc target Muslims almost exclusively. They’re not complaining that they’re brown, it’s the Koran, the Niqab etc that draw their ire.

Race, culture and the conflicts they create are complex but the situation is improving, despite the rhetoric to the contrary. The Britain of my childhood was vastly more racist than the one of today, but progress is slower than we’d like. However, when you’ve got an ageing population and more old people than ever before in human history, and the completely undiscussed impact that has on the speed of social progress, one can’t expect things to improve overnight.

Either that or I’m dense, unthinking and completely ignorant...
This has to be one of the most ignorant posts on herr on a long while. There are many racists in the UK. I personally more than a few who have moved cities because they dont want to live near and associate with black/ brown people. Racism is very much alive. Take it from someone who knows. Its not some kind of fringe element. Its everywhere.
You need to be more enlightened.
 

Sayros

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Ok allow me to explain.

If Northern Europe was so bad in terms of racism, people from all over the world would not move here. If Northern Europe was so bad, they would not move here and instead go to places that are supposedly not so racist. Northern Europe countries (such as the Scandinavian countries) score high in happiness indexes, so those countries are obviously very livable.
But no one is saying Northern Europe is more racist than the rest of the world, people are focused on Italy right now because of their nonchalent attitude towards racist abuse. Again, racism is not the number one factor for people moving to Northern Europe. People will put up with a lot for a livable wage and an opportunity at healthcare, just to name a couple of things far more important than racism.
 

syrian_scholes

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Ok allow me to explain.

If Northern Europe was so bad in terms of racism, people from all over the world would not move here. If Northern Europe was so bad, they would not move here and instead go to places that are supposedly not so racist. Northern Europe countries (such as the Scandinavian countries) score high in happiness indexes, so those countries are obviously very livable.
The US gets a huge number of immigrants yearly, do you think there's no racism related problems in the US? I'm not saying Northern Europe has a big racism problem because I've never been there, I'm just saying your statement is not evidence to the contrary.
 

Bepi

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
 

Denis' cuff

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Good job people like Viv Anderson, John Barnes, Cyril Regis, & many others never thought that way. Otherwise football today in England would still be played by a lot of average white footballers, & we'd have been deprived of seeing some truly great players over the past 30 years or so.

It's up to footballers where they get to play their football. It's up to us, as a society, to make sure they are given the right to play their football free of prejudice based on their skin colour. Criticizing a bloke for choosing to play in a country known for racism is not the way forward.

You’d think Italians would have moved on from attitudes of minorities from 40 years ago.
 

freeurmind

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
Stopped reading after the insinuation that being black is anyone's "weakest point".
 

Righteous Steps

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
Stupid post, Italy has a huge problem with racism, huge even in comparison to Britain, posters like you who try to wilfully side step the issue are a problem also, Italy has been dealing with people of African heritage literally for thousands of years, it had the biggest empire in the world ffs, to paint that as an excuse sounds similar to the ultras of Inter.
,
 

KB3D

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Stopped reading after the insinuation that being black is anyone's "weakest point".
I think you misunderstood him. He means that all proffesional footballers are used to verbal abuse by opposition fans. They learn to deal with it and have a mental shield, so that the opppstion fans cant get under their skin. So opposition fans wil look for the weakest point of that mental shield. just a bad choise of words.
 

vangagal

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Juventini defending Inter Ultras behaviour on racist. What a shocker.
 

MsNuno

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Racist abuse is commited by racists there are no exceptions and no excuses. It always needs to be called out for what it is.
 

carvajal

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Whether Italy is racist or not, the problem is the power of the ultras.
They would have to kick them all out of the stadium and the problem would end in a 90% since nobody alone in the middle of the crowd, without the group protection, will start to throw bananas or peanuts or imitate a monkey.
Barcelona and Madrid did it, not without difficulty since the tentacles of these groups reach even people of the boards
 

Superden

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Ok allow me to explain.

If Northern Europe was so bad in terms of racism, people from all over the world would not move here. If Northern Europe was so bad, they would not move here and instead go to places that are supposedly not so racist. Northern Europe countries (such as the Scandinavian countries) score high in happiness indexes, so those countries are obviously very livable.
hmm let me think, the migration to the UK from the commonwealth in the 60s, no wonder they all cam up here, all that bunting everywhere and such a special welcome with the no dogs, no irish, no blacks signs
 

Superden

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Ok allow me to explain.

If Northern Europe was so bad in terms of racism, people from all over the world would not move here. If Northern Europe was so bad, they would not move here and instead go to places that are supposedly not so racist. Northern Europe countries (such as the Scandinavian countries) score high in happiness indexes, so those countries are obviously very livable.
What the peoples party in Denmark which for the past decade polled consistently around 25% of the vote. a right wing party with its central policy being anti-immigration and anti multiculturalism (although its support has dropped in the last year).

If people are going to add their tuppence worth when it comes to racism, then please try to not just regurgitate this sort of nonsense.
 

Bennz McCarthey17

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Nothing sounds more stupid as people from racist countries, trying to defend continuous racism from their people. That's not patriotism, its hypocrisy. And you wonder what these dunder heads are teaching their children at schools and their homes..
 

MrPooni

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On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.
.
Right-wing propaganda is a helluva drug :lol:

Don't get me wrong, we have an immeasurable number of issues with discrimination in this country but the nightmarish image you're painting here is just a montage of Daily Mail and Sun clippings being held together with a litre of Rupert Murdoch's dried spunk.
 

tenpoless

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As much as I hate ultras and other extreme supporter groups (because you just know They're daft and uneducated), every club have them and it's hard to tell which cnuts decide to be dickheads on matchday. They don't even have to belong to a group to be racist.

We had people singing about his c*ck and it could be classified racism as well (or at least very disturbing and showing a lack of intelligence). We have our share of idiots. As for Demba Ba's letter, such supporters do not exist only in Italy. Serie A just need to be more strict with the rules and supporter bans.
 

Fridge chutney

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
Trainwreck of a post.
 

TrustInOle

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I find it highly sickening that in this day and age, with advancements in science that discovered the history of evolution and the human race all coming from a single point in heritage, how can anyone have issues with skin colour as a means to cause abuse.

Skin colour should be as irrelevant as hair colour, eye colour ect. It makes no difference to the person, in who they are and how they should be treated.

As I have never come under any racist attack i would be very interested to know/ understand the mindset of some who gets racially abused. And would like to strike up a conversation maybe as to their view on recieving and handling racism.
 

VeevaVee

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
Anyone with a brain can work out what racism is.
 

kouroux

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
That's such drivel. Even if someone lives in the most racist country in the world, he still would be well within his rights to criticize racism in Italy.
 

giorno

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Okay, I guess I stand corrected then(if your views are facts). Are there any Italians in this forum, lets ban them :devil:
Feck you mate :D
No surprise when you let so many Russians in your country.
We've let them into our government :lol:
Well please don't consider my view as 'fact'. Racism exists everywhere, and even if I think it's more prevalent than say the UK or France, it's still very much a minority of idiots in the population.
I'm not sure it's even a minority anymore actually

Salvini is hugely popular, even with the russian connections and corruption scandals that rocked his party and forced them to step down from government. And other fringe far-right parties are on the rise as well

Also yes, racism is very much an issue in everyday life. I'm not sure if it's more or worse than in other european countries, but it's certainly more overt than in most
 

Tostao_80

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It’s a disgrace but ultras do target the weakest point of every opponent all the time: Schillaci the hero of Italy WC 90 was always abused as a thief of car tyres (his brother did actually do that for a living at home in Sicily), Baresi was always abused as the dumb husband because of his coloured first son (ultras wisdom being he was the legit son of Gullit, probably true).

Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots, so the abuse to Lukaku actually ignores all the nuances you can understand from Britain and the US.

On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception), or the awful scandals perpetrated by your gov with your own immigrants (Windrush, sexual gangs, etc.), or the torrent of abuse you post daily on this same forum against any kind of perceived diversity.

Come on, you are just having a far worse and clownish string of governments than us these days and sadly replacing us as the laughing stock of the enlightened West. So, please, be considerate, things happen without depth more often than not, many times it is just plain stupidity from small groups of duckheads. Thanks.
Atrocity of a post. Youre excusing racism and thats pretty despicable. People aren't too thick to know what racism is, they know. Are you Italian by any chance?
 

giorno

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. People aren't too thick to know what racism is, they know. Are you Italian by any chance?
In Italy a lot of people don't actually. They assume racism=hate poc

They don't understand that the much more prevalent, pervasive racial prejudices and profiling are still racism
 

Bepi

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The Italian problem with immigrants (black immigrants on top, but also caucasians from eastern europe have their own peculiar ways) these days, which Salvini is exploiting for his own far right agenda, does not depend on skin colour: it is the perceived entitlement as charity tourists, it is the organised small extortions played at every traffic light and at entrance of every supermarket, it is the vulnerable menaces roaming near every train station, it is the small and big crimes perpetrated to survive, it is the untruthful playing of the refugee card coupled with the victim card when denied... these alienate the locals against immigrants, as it happens everywhere and every time (ities we were in the late ‘800s and esrly ‘900s, so we know ourselves). Again, it is not blackness with all its historical weight, Italians as a group do not know what it is and do not give a feck actually: you can be green, pink, yellow, brown, white... it is just the strong perception some do not want to play the same difficult game locals have to play to survive, in that helped by sly leftists who use complex migration waves to make business out of integration.
 

KirkDuyt

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The Italian problem with immigrants (black immigrants on top, but also caucasians from eastern europe have their own peculiar ways) these days, which Salvini is exploiting for his own far right agenda, does not depend on skin colour: it is the perceived entitlement as charity tourists, it is the organised small extortions played at every traffic light and at entrance of every supermarket, it is the vulnerable menaces roaming near every train station, it is the small and big crimes perpetrated to survive, it is the untruthful playing of the refugee card coupled with the victim card when denied... these alienate the locals against immigrants, as it happens everywhere and every time (ities we were in the late ‘800s and esrly ‘900s, so we know ourselves). Again, it is not blackness with all its historical weight, Italians as a group do not know what it is and do not give a feck actually: you can be green, pink, yellow, brown, white... it is just the strong perception some do not want to play the same difficult game locals have to play to survive, in that helped by sly leftists who use complex migration waves to make business out of integration.
Be that as it may. They did it to Lukaku, because the color of his skin is black. Lukaku has feck all to do with people offering to clean your car window at a traffic stop. The only similarity he has to them is the color of his skin. It obviously depends on skin color, to say otherwise is either the everest of thickness, or a lie.
 

Withnail

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The Italian problem with immigrants (black immigrants on top, but also caucasians from eastern europe have their own peculiar ways) these days, which Salvini is exploiting for his own far right agenda, does not depend on skin colour: it is the perceived entitlement as charity tourists, it is the organised small extortions played at every traffic light and at entrance of every supermarket, it is the vulnerable menaces roaming near every train station, it is the small and big crimes perpetrated to survive, it is the untruthful playing of the refugee card coupled with the victim card when denied... these alienate the locals against immigrants, as it happens everywhere and every time (ities we were in the late ‘800s and esrly ‘900s, so we know ourselves). Again, it is not blackness with all its historical weight, Italians as a group do not know what it is and do not give a feck actually: you can be green, pink, yellow, brown, white... it is just the strong perception some do not want to play the same difficult game locals have to play to survive, in that helped by sly leftists who use complex migration waves to make business out of integration.
Bloody Foreigners!
 

Superden

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@Bepi quoting from your post "
>>>>On the other hand, the upper stance from English posters here vilifying Italy as a country is pretty terrible, you just have to look at the ghettos in your cities with muslims, asians, blacks and withes all living separated (London being the globalist exception)..<<<>

So theres muslim ghettos, then asian ghettos then black and white ghettos? Wtf? And what colour are the muslims in the muslim ghettos if they arent living in the white or black or asian ghettos..or is being muslim a separate race? At least this puts a different slant on the right wing trope about islamaphobia not being racism as islam is not a race.
 

krautrøck

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Italy do not have the historical background to know what racism is, it being a white, catholic country from jewish Roman-Greek roots.
Haha! Someone do the honors and post that Dennis Hopper monologue from True Romance.
 

giorno

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The Italian problem with immigrants (black immigrants on top, but also caucasians from eastern europe have their own peculiar ways) these days, which Salvini is exploiting for his own far right agenda, does not depend on skin colour: it is the perceived entitlement as charity tourists, it is the organised small extortions played at every traffic light and at entrance of every supermarket, it is the vulnerable menaces roaming near every train station, it is the small and big crimes perpetrated to survive, it is the untruthful playing of the refugee card coupled with the victim card when denied... these alienate the locals against immigrants, as it happens everywhere and every time (ities we were in the late ‘800s and esrly ‘900s, so we know ourselves). Again, it is not blackness with all its historical weight, Italians as a group do not know what it is and do not give a feck actually: you can be green, pink, yellow, brown, white... it is just the strong perception some do not want to play the same difficult game locals have to play to survive, in that helped by sly leftists who use complex migration waves to make business out of integration.
Get your head out of your ass