But he wasn't exactly far away, and he was pointing right at him anyway
Hm.
You’re going on a bit of a tangent here but the idea that a country with a history of dubious foreign policy can’t call out racism is one of the dumber ideas in a thread full of dumb ideas. Should the English national team have kept quiet about the monkey noises aimed at their black players because of England’s colonial past?
Asking for elaboration on as bold a statement as "Turkey is one of the most racist countries out there" isn't tantamount to wanting to earn the moral high ground on racism issues.
The theatricality does bother me. Rio Ferdinand was on the money when he refused to take part in Kick it Out campaigns and spoke out on England having to do their homework before lecturing other countries.
Not never in any circumstances. My oldest daughter has friends with different skin colours, and of course she mentions that in relevant contexts, and of course it's visible when she draws her friends. We are not raising them to be colourblind: from research I've read, this does not reduce racism, and is in fact counterproductive. (In particular: if you don't notice race, you also can't notice racist behaviour in others.)
I don't think anybody has said that the word "black" should never be used in any way and I assume @Cheimoon doesn't think that, but when in the context it's used seems unnecessary.
I just think lumping everyone of a specific nationality in together, in terms of their morals, is bordering on racism in itself. Turkey may be a country with lots of problematic ideoogies but for all we know the individuals involved are progressive, decent people. As you say, credit where it’s due for hiring a black assistant manager in the first place.
That’s interesting but now how I’d approach it. I want my kids to acknowledge and discuss different ethnicities and help them learn and use the correct language when discussing something potentially sensitive like this. I don’t think ignoring or trying not to mention race when discussing their friends and peers is the best way to deal with it. I could be wrong though. I’m far from an expert and we’re all just muddling along here!
If it happened I care and Webo should be sanctioned but the issue is that the journalist that reported it was busy tweeting all night long and came up with that one today.
Because it got completely swept under the rug for the most part, I doubt they even know about it. I wouldn't have known if I wasn't on this thread as I didn't hear it live, it's actually a worse offense than what happened with the Romanian referee.
I know, right! At some point, I thought colourblindness would be a good thing - only to be corrected soon after. I read about racism whenever I come across stuff, but it's hard to know everything - plus insights change anyway. I think the most important thing, though, is to be very conscious and to try and get it right. That's anyway pretty much all you can do, short of becoming a racism specialist yourself. (Only so much time in life!)
Clearly people care but my guess is most don't know since that's not what the press have reported about. I and many here have said that it's horrible and whoever said it should be in trouble
In the video that I heard, it's not Webo's voice. Someone said in my country roumanians are gypsies though, I think that it's the one who said, "it's champions league, not Romania."
Yes, yes and yes.
Its very very clear on the video assuming the video isn't doctored which it doesn't seem to be.
This mindest is Critical Race Theory - 101. Sounds like you just finished reading "White Fragility".
Because it hasn't been widely reported and because the other angle is far more inflammatory in todays hypersensitive climate.
But it doesn't sound like Webo, it does sound like the guy that was just next to the fourth referee though and that guy said other weird things. I posted the video but don't know if people can see it, he sounds like a proper weapon.
Thanks.
I did read it, but it's not that helpful in my view. But if you're trying to make a bigger point or have suggestions for how I can do better, I'm always interested.
But if people's primary concern is racism it doesn't matter if it was Webo or not. How are high profile people and associations getting away with this utter hypocrisy, its a disgusting comment and patently offensive
I know, right! At some point, I thought colourblindness would be a good thing - only to be corrected soon after. I read about racism whenever I come across stuff, but it's hard to know everything - plus insights change anyway. I think the most important thing, though, is to be very conscious and to try and get it right. That's anyway pretty much all you can do, short of becoming a racism specialist yourself. (Only so much time in life!)
I agree that those conversations are super important. We've also had chats about racism, and what it means and what she could do when she sees it. Similar for white privilege. (My youngest is too young for that; and my eldest is also below 10 - so they're not super deep discussions.) But I don't want to stress them out with the subject either, especially since my daughter has lots of non-white friends (to be clear, I'm saying non-white because they have different skin colours; I'm not trying to avoid the word 'black' at all costs), and she shouldn't worry about them unduly or start bothering them with it. Still, I do want her to be conscious of this - especially since she apparently tends to take on leadership roles in class, so she can make a difference. It's a fine balance!
Urgh, so much to consider as a parent.
Yeah, it’s tough. I’m optimistic that it won’t be too big a deal for my kids. The best way to avoid being racist is to grow up with an ethnically diverse peer group. And the difference in terms of diversity between Ireland now and my own childhood in the 1980s is enormous. So if I managed to find a way to be a reasonably sensitive and tolerant person I don’t have too many worries about my kids achieving the same.If you read the thread you will realize that it's not people primary concern and that information only came out after most people had already posted. But it's clear that you are trying to create your own outrage.
Atatürk's one demand on his deathbed was that Turkey wouldn't join WWII. Anything I've ever read about it, this included, will forever make me thankful to him for that alone.
Yeah, that too. Diversity will be completely normal for my kids, and 'interracial' couples are also super common (which it wasn't where and when I grew up). They'll probably be better people than me without even trying.
(Well, in this regard. I'm sure I'll claim my moral superiority on most other things when I'm of boomer age. 
)None of them came close to Adenauer the great Kölner
I think when you say the 'black guy' or something like 'the black one' it makes it impersonal and thus rude if it's an environment you're expected to be more formal and/or educated. You could describe someone as the man/person/gentleman with black skin and that makes it a lot less likely to be interpreted as something derogatory. Anyway I wouldn't qualify anyone for being racist just from those lines but in language and communication there are more variables when you deliver the message like voice tone, attitude, overall demeanor, etc. and like you pointed out it's also varies depending on the country and language.
@Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær
You've completely lost me and clearly not read any other posts I've made in this thread?
Mostly agree, but it is the official’s business setting. It’s not a Sunday pub league, it’s a multi billion dollar company showcasing its product.
Because you can’t be racist towards people who’s skin color is white. According to society at least.
What a load of shit.
Even if people of different skin colours are telling you that they find it offensive?
