Honestly, I don't think he has that involvement. I reckon he just gives him a rating of how much he wants him from 1 to 5 or something and then the bullshitters go off and cook up some rubbish. I can't believe a 5 year contract for Jones can be anything other than an accountant's idea.
Rafael interview in The Athletic
- Thread starter jem
- Start date
Really I didn't catch that part of him explaining why he himself isn't a good footballer. What did he say?
He said that he couldn't listen to one of the most successful managers in the world speak to his team.
Any player thinking they know better than their manager is not setting himself for success.
In any profession that is a clear red flag and a sign of very low ceiling. The manager does not cater his group messages to any individual player. It's their job to listen. No surprises that Rafael was out of favour...
Well he actually said this: "I was never concerned about criticism or analysis, either. You have to take that. As a player, if you did something wrong, OK. If you don’t think you did something wrong, talk back and say it. Sometimes it was too much information. But I respect that. I don’t mind that. If we want to discuss what I did wrong on the pitch for one hour, no problem. But he cannot speak for 15 minutes about shit. Every day. This was mad to me.”
So it sounds like it was more a problem with listening to LVG prattle on after every meal about this, that and everything (which doesn't sound that far-fetched given the way LVG comes across in interviews.) And I respect him for being honest, as I have no doubt a number of others felt the same way (he's hardly the first ex-player to have a go at LVG.) Given the lengths Rafael goes to praise Fergie, and even exonerate Moyes to a certain extent, I don't really get the impression of him being some bad apple who tunes out coaches.
I've had bad managers in my career but I would never say that any of them that they were talking about shit. That, to me, says he is very unprofessional and considering nobody else from the same squad has said anything remotely close, I would consider Rafael being impatient and limited in his ability to listen and gather new information.
There is a reason why he played for Lyon and is now in Turkey in his peak years. And that reason is not LVG.
It would be one thing if he was spouting off while playing under LVG, but I have no problem with his opening up about it now. And if there is a reason why he played for Lyon and in Turkey, there must also be a reason he was a regular starter under Fergie.
Yeah, he had potential and Ferguson wanted to give him a chance to develop it. He, unfortunately, didn't.
Reports most of the team stopped listening to him by the end and were bored of him, lots of them were league winners
Yeah brilliant. It sounds like a hilarious experience to work under LVG. And God awful at the same time.
I miss Rafael. Would be a nice option to bring on at RB.
I think he was well on his way to realizing it and had a very good season in 2012-3 https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thebusb...silva-manchester-united-2012-13-player-review
Rafael is just a tom cleverley of RB. SAF can make it work but isnt good & consistent enough for other managers.
Well, I can’t argue that Rafael was a guaranteed world beater and it’s not a shock his career has drifted downwards.
However, it is also not a shock that LVG talks shit for 15 mins every day. This type of inevitably-true carrying-on needs to be exposed by those who had to sit through it.
I will understand if LVG had a strong replacement but Rafael was replaced with Darmain. Are you kidding me? I do rather have Rafael.
LVG was the manager that made Valencia a RB and Young a fullback too.
It wasnt just straight up replacing Rafael with Darmian.
It wasnt just straight up replacing Rafael with Darmian.
And yet nobody said anything of the sorts publicly like Rafael. As I wrote, I've also had bad managers. That doesn't mean I would ever trash them publicly.
So what stopped him realising it after escaping the evil LVG?
There can be any number of variables - you can similarly ask how Di Maria could look so good for Real and for PSG, yet look so awful at United (playing for a certain Dutch coach.)
Di maria didnt look awful at United
Err, yes. That was shit man management, and quite a shit example to dispel Rafael’s correct words mate
Yaya toure got kicked aswell.Err, yes. That was shit man management, and quite a shit example to dispel Rafael’s correct words mate
3 is not the option.
1 is impossible. Even the team toward the end of SAF would need serious personnel change let alone the aftermath of Moyes' disaster.
2 LVG would be accounted for huge chunk of responsibilities, but not all. We don't have structure to support. Like how Liverpool always have club signing like Salah that fit the style of the manager when manager himself doesn't have better obtainable target to push toward. I don't mean club signing like Ander Herrera and Schneiderlin whom LVG looked to reprogram them to something them ain't.
Well don’t stop there. Explain?Err, yes. That was shit man management, and quite a shit example to dispel Rafael’s correct words mate
But to make it nice and simple. He didn’t fit his style and he told him your not going to get much minutes but you can fight for your place if you want.
And for Di Maria I would accept that LVG had a lot to do with it. As you said, he has performed quite well for PSG afterwards. But why not Rafael then (who was also much younger when he left and had more time to 'shake off the torment')?
You can’t tell a team leader and club legend (Hart is, considering City’s lack of legends) to piss off on your first day. Be a bit classier about it.
Exactly. I think someone mentioned Pep doesn’t have the best man management, and I entirely agree. He is where he is because he’s a living footballing genius. If any of us had his footballing brain and IQ, we’d be where he is too. It’s not that simple with Fergie and Klopp, as these guys are both footballing geniuses in their own right, but nowhere near Pep or Cruyff. However, they will both be rightly recognised as better than Pep due to obviously their lower budget, but also their brilliant man management skills, more so Fergie, who is and will be the GOAT of managers.
That's because Van Gaal continued played him even though he was turning out worse performances than the players Van Gaal sold.
There was a big contrast in the way Fergie treated Rooney and the way the likes of Moyes and LVG did. He was already on a decline by the time Ferguson retired but I wondered how much Rooney being pandered to post-Fergie contributed to some of his awful performances.
You can if your objective is to win the league and in doing so you have to execute Your key fundamentals. He would have just been a bench player on high wages. You think City would care too much when it’s time to sack Pep.
He was bigger than the managers. Remember he announced himslef as the new Scholes when Rashford took his place
Er, what? Aside from a decent first couple of months, he absolutely was awful - when he could be arsed to get himself into the team. Why the revisionism? By his own admission he didn't want to be at United. Does that tell a tale of a player giving it his all? He was a shadow of the footballer he was at Madrid, and has gone on to be for PSG. Get over it!Di maria didnt look awful at United
LvG was an absolute disaster, not just in the football we played, the erroneous transfer dealings and oh god the complete, utter dog shit football, but for the downcast vibe and feeling he brought to the club that we're still shaking loose from (not helped by it being compounded by Mou). That maverick egotism shtick only works if you can deliver on the pitch which he roundly didn't. Big name, big ego, big money, massive failure. Typifies a lot of what has gone wrong at the club since Fergie.
How would you describe his time at United?Di maria didnt look awful at United
No idea - would need to ask the resident Lyon fans, but whatever happened, that doesn't change the fact that he was a good performer under Fergie, suffered like everyone else under Moyes, and then got immediately sidelined by LVG, at the ripe old age of 24. The fact that he was hardly upgraded doesn't really shine a positive light on that decision.
The fact that he stayed at Lyon and then moved to Turkey should be telling you plenty about it. But I get it, I see your efforts in defending his honour while trashing LVG. You do you.
Uh ok. Interesting way to tap out of the discussion.
I think most players were quite miserable under both LVG and Mourinho so i“m not surprised at all to hear rafael say this...
Did you only watch him in his first month or something?Di maria didnt look awful at United
We could start a fun thread with this: Alexander Buttner was not awful at United; Matteo Darmian was not awful at United!
Even Darmian had a good first month
I have to say I liked Rafael and was sorry to see him go, but what he's saying is inevitably one-sided.
It sounds as if he was a victim of a different management style to what he was used to and didn't like it. LVG did seem to have a bias against Brazilians, but had undoubtedly watched players before he arrived and made his mind up - probably wrongly in some cases.
In Rafael's defence, some of his criticisms ring true, and it tells us what we already know - SAF was an exceptional manager who was prepared to work to a player's strengths. LVG was correct, on the other hand, when he said Rafael couldn't defend.
It sounds as if he was a victim of a different management style to what he was used to and didn't like it. LVG did seem to have a bias against Brazilians, but had undoubtedly watched players before he arrived and made his mind up - probably wrongly in some cases.
In Rafael's defence, some of his criticisms ring true, and it tells us what we already know - SAF was an exceptional manager who was prepared to work to a player's strengths. LVG was correct, on the other hand, when he said Rafael couldn't defend.
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I remember a crunching tackle he did on Gerrard once that left him lying on the floor
To be honest, apart from Roy Keane, i was always a bit disappointed at the way some of our players stood off Gerrard at times, especially when he was always keen to dish it out himself. Rafa and Herrera are exceptions.Haha. I miss Rafael. What a great character he was.
He's so damn loveable.