Rafael interview in The Athletic

POF

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It was the same in Barcelona as well and he got to manage that team twice. However,

Theres 2 levels to Van Gaal - the boring football that's like the icing part of a cake; the part of the cake that is easily seen and judged

And then theres the tactical build up of a squad which is so clearly thought by the player and is slow that it becomes tumescent and strong eventually.

I just wish he got that 3rd year with us because I was just seeing it start to come together - the partnerships between Martial & Rashford, the Smalling & Blind's etc.

He's a proper teacher with a history of poor transfers at all his clubs. I just personally know that the people who dont get Van Gaal is not for me to talk about tactics with. The same type of fans who were crying to hire Jose after him and then complain 2 seasons after about how he shouldn't have been hired after LVG because they play 2 different types of football; then blame woodward for it. Blame the players for being crap like sanchez, Pogba etc when they were excited in the signing in the first place when they should have know that they dont fit a certain tactical philosophy.

That ruined what he was building here like he helped out at bayern & Barcelona to varying degress. I also felt his first season of Falcao and big name players wasnt all his idea but Woodward's panic towards getting back to the CL because the difference between that and season two were miles apart.

Just gutted about that one more season because it was obvious to me (as a follower of his tactics) from 5 years ago that Martial False 9 would happen competing with a player like Memphis whilst Rashford would be out wide the season after his breakthrough.

Keeping a player like Blind or Memphis would have been better than Rafeal any day of the week for me. Jose came ditched the players and the system as soon as he got here except for times when he had to use it like the Europa League final vs Ajax.

Like Giggs and Rooney said - the best tactical manager I've seen at United & him not winning things instantly doesnt change that for me.
Van Gaal was never going to be a success at United and another season would have made no difference other than making the job for his successor even harder.

Firstly, his tactics were the antithesis of "the United way". United were turning into the type of Arsenal team United had ridiculed for years. Possession football with no end product. It didn't even have the quality football. He had to play Fellaini as a method of breaking teams down because the football lacked any level of creativity or imagination in the final third.

Secondly, he was on a 3 year contract and was then due to retire. Say he got an extra season, coached the team further in his unorthodox methods and retired. Then what? The chances were the new manager would want to rip it up and start again no matter who it was. The defensive structure was very unorthodox (for England at least) and Jose talked of having to get the defenders to unlearn it after he took over.

Thirdly, the players couldn't stand him. "I want fast creative wingers" after he turfed them all out in his first summer in charge (to play 3-5-2 which lasted about 3 weeks), signed Memphis and played him as a number 10 and had Di Maria and played him up front.

It's well documented that his transfer record was atrocious. Diabolically bad. I realise that isn't your argument but it set the club back years.

I understand his philosophy is to make the players smarter, make them think more for themselves and be more analytical on the pitch. That's great if you're head of the academy, not first team coach. If you have to retrain every first team player how to play football it will take more than 3 years to create a successful team.

If United were going to appoint LVG it would have had to be with a long term plan to change the way the club played football. It needed a football structure that believed in that approach and would continue it for years to come under similar minded coaches and with a recruitment department to identify the right type of player (the mythical fast creative wingers who only did exactly what LVG told them to do).

Under those circumstances, it could have gone better but it was never going to lead to success.

The current approach (recreate what United had under Fergie) is hardly groundbreaking but at least the club seem united in carrying it out. It may not be a good plan but it's at least a plan. Under LVG there was no plan. Just a complete mess.
 

Zlaatan

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Anyone who knows tactics were understanding what LVG was doing and it was great to watch being used & be slowly built up in our team.

The fans who know crap all about it were calling it boring football and ended up crying out for jose instead.
It's pretty rich to imply that the people who thought it was boring football simply doesn't understand tactics, we all sat through two years of it and I'm pretty sure most of us could see exactly what he wanted and how he wanted to play since it was so strict and methodical. Simeone's tactics at Atletico are constantly called boring, is that also because people don't understand them or is it as simple as boring football is boring football no matter how successfully you defend against Liverpool?

I also don't see how he built up the team since in his 2nd season we had less points and went from our 3rd lowest scoring season in the PL era - to the lowest ever, went from 4th to 5th while not progressing from the group stages of the CL with 80% of our signings being dross. Yes we won the FA cup but if all that is what you call slowly building up the team then I want the exact opposite of that every time.
 

rakesh289

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How was rafael shit after he left us? He was the first choice right back for lyon when they reached semi finals of europa league, the same season we won it.
LVG may have had his reasons, rafael is understandably not a fan, but that doesn't mean he was a bad player.
Loved rafa when he was here ,he gave absolutely 100 percent everytime he played.
 

hasanejaz88

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Well five years can change many things in someone's ability. And perhaps LVG built a foundation there, however the football that Bayern played under Heynckes cannot be compared to LVG's Bayern, who fluked their way to the final through dodgy decisions against Fiorentina and United, only to be completely outclassed by Mourinho. Heynckes elevated Bayern to standards that LVG could only dream.
Heynckes Bayern would not have played at that high level had it not been for LvG instilling that possession mentality on the players and helping him play that way. Before LvG, Bayern were hardly a team capable of playing possession football.

That style helped take Bayern into the next decade, where possession football has become the most important component of tactics.
 

MadDogg

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Anyone who knows tactics were understanding what LVG was doing and it was great to watch being used & be slowly built up in our team.

The fans who know crap all about it were calling it boring football and ended up crying out for jose instead.
It was obvious what he was trying to do. Emphasis on the word 'trying'. He had three huge issues.

1) Inability to get the players we had playing the style as he wanted.
2) Inability to sign the right players to play the style he wanted.
3) Inability to change to a different style to get the most out of the players.

Put those three together and we were going nowhere. In fact we were getting worse the longer he was here.
 

georgipep

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Good basic management that has Andreas, Lingard, and Jones sitting on long term contracts on high wages. Sounds more like stupid terrible management. He also sold Fellaini within a month and clearly looked to get rid as soon as he came in. So, no he didn’t give him a chance. Telling someone they aren’t in the plans isn’t treating anyone like shit.

All the players didn’t hate van Gaal.

This is probably why van Gaal has won countless trophies while Ole has won feck all and Rafael has done absolutely nothing since leaving.
Do you know if Ole sold Fellaini or Marouane wanted to leave/had the transfer arranged?

As for the new contracts, as far as I could find Lingard signed his current deal in 2017. I don't know the details around Jones and Pereira new deals but I imagine the decision making was a bit more complex than Ole telling the club to renew them no matter what.
 

reelworld

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So nothing special. LVG can be blamed for a host of things, but letting go of Rafael isn't exactly criminal.
Managers letting go players is only correct if the replacement is doing better than the player he replaced.
After replacing Rafael with Darmian, we have to spunk 50M to replace him. That's pretty criminal in my book
 

arthurka

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Of course. Imagine working your butt off to get to your dream job and some fat cnut comes along and just tells you to piss off without even seeing your work. Yes Rafael had some injury concerns but if what he is saying is true, then that's disgraceful management from LVG.
It has been said about him before. He is a cnut of the highest caliber and he really hate Brazilians.
 

limerickcitykid

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Fond of LVG are you? Good for you. One of the worst managers of all time for United. Tactics mean diddly squat if you don’t have players motivated and playing to their potential individually and as a collective.
Not at all really, I’m just fond of not being a hypocrite

Our best players have spoke well of him anyway so he did motivate them. You don’t need to motivate average players who aren’t good enough to be at the club. Like Ole said, it isn’t his job to keep them happy.
 

limerickcitykid

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People that dislike van Gaal:
Rivaldo
Stoichkov
Johan Cruyff
Hugo Sanchez
Zlatan
Di Maria

The man is an absolute cnut of the highest order and a bad manager.
So some world class players love him and others hate him. Cool story.

If van Gaal was a bad manager then god knows what that makes Rafael, an absolute dog shit player?
 

limerickcitykid

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Yeah this thread has been derailed now by the LvG gang. It was never about if it was correct or not the decision. The critique lies with his management.
There is no LvG gang. The critiques lies in your stupid critique of his man management. Poor player is told to leave, it isn’t poor management. No matter if the Rafael gang want to cry about it
 

limerickcitykid

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Of course. Imagine working your butt off to get to your dream job and some fat cnut comes along and just tells you to piss off without even seeing your work. Yes Rafael had some injury concerns but if what he is saying is true, then that's disgraceful management from LVG.
Imagine being a manager who has won trophies all over Europe working his butt off and coming in to find some little twerp who is barely an average player who is always injured and can’t even sit quietly for 10 minutes and listen to his manager. That is disgraceful attitude from Rafael.

Rafael wasn’t good enough. He was told he can leave. It happens to several players every window, the ones with integrity don’t whine about it for years. But that’s namely at other clubs as we prefer to collect average injury prone players here.
 

Maticmaker

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This is probably why van Gaal has won countless trophies while Ole has won feck all and Rafael has done absolutely nothing since leaving.
Very true, the problem with LvG he was a 'yesterdays' man (although with an impressive collection of silverware won across Europe) when he arrived he had one foot out of the door towards retirement and had promised his wife a long golfing holiday when he had retired.... but then United came calling and he couldn't resist.

LvG's style of football was based on "the opposition cant score whilst you have the ball' but you need seven or eight of your first XI to be elite players, the kind who can win you games on their own, to be successful and entertaining in that mode. Louie had no where near that level of/numbers of player, so he gave some youngsters a chance, brought in one or two 'names' Di Maria, Falcao etc. who should have contributed more and he gambled. That's why, even when he had won the FA Cup he was already booked on the golf course (Portugal I believe).

Ole gave in to pressure and concentrated solely on getting back into the CL, his first XI choice for both the FA Cup and the Europa Semi's indicated he would be prepared to wait for a chance to challenge for silverware, further down the line, it could turn out to be the worst decision he ever made in his career as a manager.... but lets hope not!

Rafael was a good servant, entertaining but took too many risks for LvG liking, on couple of occasions we got caught out because he wasn't where he should have been and that convinced Louie. Rafa's best performance for me was with his brother in midfield against Arsenal in the FA cup 4th round, it was the game also that together with Anderson they bottled up/destroyed Fabregas and hence Arsenal we won 4-1 I think!!
 

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The hate on Rafael is ridiculous from some posters. He was a solid young right back( yes he had occasional brain farts - no worse then what ever current players has done)gave his all everytime he stepped on the pitch who was coming off his best year ( last year with SAF). Moyes year was an anomaly for nearly all our players.
According to that article his first words with LVG were he isnt needed. Please dont compare him with Fellaini, Periera etc he won multiple titles with us and played in the back 4 regularly with Rio,Vidic and Evra as opposed to our current wing back learning their trade with the shit show of central defenders we have had since.
Also who cares what he done with Lyon how played for us is why fans still respect and love Rafael.
 

AneRu

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We talking about same injury prone right back right? Shit football and all but getting rid of Rafael wasnt a mistake, loved his attitude but yea.
I think we are looking at this from the wrong perspective, Valencia was transitioning into a RB and Rafael had just endured an injury ravaged season under Moyes. Was it really necessary to get rid of Rafael when he could have played a squad role as back up to Valencia for a couple of years?

Just like Evans and other squad players that LVG got rid off their replacements weren't all that and it has set us back a few years because they didn't give us the performances we got from the likes of Rafael, Evans, Nani, Welbeck and Hernandez regardless of how poorly they did since leaving they were ingrained into the club's culture and had something to offer for a few years at least.
 

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I think we are looking at this from the wrong perspective, Valencia was transitioning into a RB and Rafael had just endured an injury ravaged season under Moyes. Was it really necessary to get rid of Rafael when he could have played a squad role as back up to Valencia for a couple of years?

Just like Evans and other squad players that LVG got rid off their replacements weren't all that and it has set us back a few years because they didn't give us the performances we got from the likes of Rafael, Evans, Nani, Welbeck and Hernandez regardless of how poorly they did since leaving they were ingrained into the club's culture and had something to offer for a few years at least.
100% agree with your last paragraph players like Nani and Rafael especially were comfortable being used in squad rotations fighting for a starting spot and like you said even though maybe inconsistent at times they put in alot more better performances than their replacements and more do than anything else they were great fits in the United culture.
 

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Rafael was a better player when we sold him, than anyone who has played for us in his position since.
 

AneRu

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100% agree with your last paragraph players like Nani and Rafael especially were comfortable being used in squad rotations fighting for a starting spot and like you said even though maybe inconsistent at times they put in alot more better performances than their replacements and more do than anything else they were great fits in the United culture.
This is what we are forgetting, yes the players we had then didn't set the world on fire but they were comfortable with their roles and would have given us more than the trash we wasted millions on.
Rafael was a better player when we sold him, than anyone who has played for us in his position since.
True, people will remember the costly brainfarts but forget that we had no issues in attack with Rafael and he had a fighting spirit that enabled him to go toe to toe with the likes of Ronaldo and Bale.

Van Gaal set us back because he gutted our squad of players who knew their roles, were comfortable with them and could come in and do a job when needed. Compare and contrast the players we threw out and the ones that Ole doesnt even want to use that we have polluting our squad that Van Gaal, Jose and Moyes signed.
 

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His anecdotes on Van Gaal are incredibly damning. Sounds like he could barely have been a worse fit for us, and was massively out of touch with his players.
 

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His anecdotes on Van Gaal are incredibly damning. Sounds like he could barely have been a worse fit for us, and was massively out of touch with his players.
when he was here he would go on about 'total person principle' . At the end there were reports he would email info to the players and they just wouldnt open them :lol:
 

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LvG's biggest mistake was selling players like Rafael, Evans, Nani, Welbeck, Chicharito too quickly (and cheaply) and not giving them a chance.

Instead he bought Darmian, Rojo, Di Maria, Falcao - all a complete waste of money and none of them true Utd players like Rafa.
 

SambaBoy

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Rafael in Fergie's last season was a very bright player who had a great season. He got in TOTY and kept himself injury free. I remember him keeping a lot of good wingers quiet, and was good from an attacking sense. Fergie leaving sort of killed him. It took him since he was 18 to build up to that player, and had finally realised some of his potential and was developing into one of the best RB's in Europe. He also didn't have a great record with injury and seemed to be constantly injured/out of favour with Moyes and LvG.
 

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Under Fergie there was a “no player is bigger than the club” mentality
Under LVG there was a “no player is bigger than me” mentality. The cnut has one of the biggest most fragile egos in football
 

united_99

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I liked LvG and would have rather given him a 3rd year than hired Jose.
But when he joined Bayern he was younger and better and still Bayern sacked him after less than 2 years.
I know their board as well as some of their key players have praised his influence but at the same time they knew he couldn’t take them further and would rather destroy his own work if he stayed longer.

With us I have no doubt that Carrick and Giggs were impressed by him (I am excluding way-past-it-and-still-always-playing-captain Rooney’s comments) but even in their praise where is the praise for creativity, attacking plan, scoring goals? What is the use of all the coaching and tactics if we attack like a relegation side?
LVG lost all touch with reality. I read an interview with him later where he was very happy to have managed us as he only manages the biggest teams in each country (fair enough). But he then went on to praise our FA Cup win as an incredible achievement where we won despite having a player sent off in the final.
For the love of everything we didn’t play a single decent, let alone good side in the whole competition and had a player sent off only very late in the game.

In Rafael’s case fair enough if Rafael’s adventurous style didn’t fit with his slow and predictable style, but at least explain your reason respectfully to someone who has been an important player for this club and more importantly sign appropriate replacements!
Considering how he treated some players it was quite rich coming from him how he would not forgive Jose for being in touch with Woodward months before LVG had been sacked.
 

POF

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So some world class players love him and others hate him. Cool story.

If van Gaal was a bad manager then god knows what that makes Rafael, an absolute dog shit player?
"An absolute dog shit player"?

Wow. Stay classy.
 

georgipep

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"An absolute dog shit player"?

Wow. Stay classy.
I think his use of the description was in relation and in reply to "if LVG was a bad manager".

I agree with @limerickcitykid that Rafael was, hasn't been and still isn't on the level required to play for Man Utd. I also think that LVG was a good manager but came to us when we needed something else which made it a bad match. How LVG handled certain aspects of the job and especially certain players, wasn't great but Rafael was not sold after LVG came, he played games and didn't shine particularly brightly in them.

I'm more disappointed by the fact that Nani, Hernandez, Januzaj and Evans were shown the door but that's a different story.
 
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I think his use of the description was in relation and in reply to "if LVG was a bad manager".

I agree with @limerickcitykid that Rafael was, hasn't been and still isn't on the level required to play for Man Utd. I also think that LVG was a good manager but came to us when we needed something else which made it a bad match. How LVG handled certain aspects of the job and especially certain players, wasn't great but Rafael was not sold after LVG came, he played games and didn't shine particularly brightly in them.

I'm more disappointed by the fact that Nani, Hernandez, Januzaj and Evans were shown the door but that's a different story.
I would have no issue with those players being sold, if it wasn’t for the fact they were replaced with worse players at massive expense.

Depay, Falcao, Rojo and Darmian were direct replacements for Nani, Hernandez, Evans and Rafael and were all worse!

We sold them all for about £10m, and their replacements cost £70m by my estimate. Truly shocking.
 

stevoc

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So nothing special. LVG can be blamed for a host of things, but letting go of Rafael isn't exactly criminal.
Criminal no, but it was a terrible decision considering he replaced him with a floating turd like Darmian.

A player so atrocious he couldn’t even become 1st choice RB ahead of two failed ageing wingers. And that’s saying something considering Young and Valencia were fairly awful fullbacks in their own right.
 

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Criminal no, but it was a terrible decision considering he replaced him with a floating turd like Darmian.

A player so atrocious he couldn’t even become 1st choice RB ahead of two failed ageing wingers. And that’s saying something considering Young and Valencia were fairly awful fullbacks in their own right.
To be fair Darmian started brilliantly and most posters thought we had the position sorted.
Still I would have kept Rafael. Regardless of his injury record, he was the only RB capable of attacking.
 

stevoc

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To be fair Darmian started brilliantly and most posters thought we had the position sorted.
Still I would have kept Rafael. Regardless of his injury record, he was the only RB capable of attacking.
Well I remember Darmian starting solidly enough but nothing spectacular. And it certainly didn’t last long.

As much as I loved Rafa I had no problem with upgrading on him. But we didn’t Van Gaal booted him out unnecessarily like many other players. And as a result we were subjected to 4-5 years of Valencia and Darmian at RB.
 

jem

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I think his use of the description was in relation and in reply to "if LVG was a bad manager".

I agree with @limerickcitykid that Rafael was, hasn't been and still isn't on the level required to play for Man Utd. I also think that LVG was a good manager but came to us when we needed something else which made it a bad match. How LVG handled certain aspects of the job and especially certain players, wasn't great but Rafael was not sold after LVG came, he played games and didn't shine particularly brightly in them.

I'm more disappointed by the fact that Nani, Hernandez, Januzaj and Evans were shown the door but that's a different story.
If he wasn’t on the level to play for United, then how do you explain his being a valuable contributor to our last title-winning team?
 

TwoSheds

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Good basic management that has Andreas, Lingard, and Jones sitting on long term contracts on high wages. Sounds more like stupid terrible management. He also sold Fellaini within a month and clearly looked to get rid as soon as he came in. So, no he didn’t give him a chance. Telling someone they aren’t in the plans isn’t treating anyone like shit.

All the players didn’t hate van Gaal.

This is probably why van Gaal has won countless trophies while Ole has won feck all and Rafael has done absolutely nothing since leaving.
Ole doesn't negotiate contracts though. It's Woody & Lackey if reports are to be believed. I don't believe for a minute Ole asked Woody to sign Rojo up to a 5 year deal or whatever it was.
 

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If he wasn’t on the level to play for United, then how do you explain his being a valuable contributor to our last title-winning team?
Rafael explains it himself in the interview: he thought Sir Alex was a great manager and did what he asked of him. But then he also explained himself why he is not a good footballer overall and hasn't achieved much after leaving Old Trafford.
 

Amir

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Ole doesn't negotiate contracts though. It's Woody & Lackey if reports are to be believed. I don't believe for a minute Ole asked Woody to sign Rojo up to a 5 year deal or whatever it was.
He obviously doesn't negotiate contracts. But he surely decides who should be given a new contract, which obviously pushes the negotiators to get a deal done.
 

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Why I feel no sympathy for LVG when he cries how Woodward sacked him is this. He was even worse with guys like Rafael for example. Absolute fecking imbecile and deserved what he god imo.
 

TwoSheds

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He obviously doesn't negotiate contracts. But he surely decides who should be given a new contract, which obviously pushes the negotiators to get a deal done.
Saying yes give him a new contract is not the same as give him a fat 5 year contract. And tbh, if he's saying something like "yes we need him unless you can bring in a replacement" then, again, the problem is the Chuckle Brothers not bringing in a replacement.
 

Handré1990

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I would have no issue with those players being sold, if it wasn’t for the fact they were replaced with worse players at massive expense.

Depay, Falcao, Rojo and Darmian were direct replacements for Nani, Hernandez, Evans and Rafael and were all worse!

We sold them all for about £10m, and their replacements cost £70m by my estimate. Truly shocking.
Bingo
 

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I'm of the opinion even if Poch-- hell, even if Ferguson returned with a wants list of players these idiots would fail to deliver. Poison Chalice doesn't even cover it.
 

Amir

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Saying yes give him a new contract is not the same as give him a fat 5 year contract. And tbh, if he's saying something like "yes we need him unless you can bring in a replacement" then, again, the problem is the Chuckle Brothers not bringing in a replacement.
I expect the manager has a bigger say than 'Yeah, give him a new contract', and the next thing that involves him is hearing the deal is signed.

Again, he is not involved in the negotiations, but surely he tells the board if this player is worth a long term contract or we should be looking at a short term deal only, whether the deserves top wages or isn't worth that much. And eventually, signs off on it.

Otherwise he could hope to keep a squad player for an extra couple of years with decent wages and find out he got a new 5-year deal that makes him one of our biggest earners. Yeah, it's an exteme scenario, but even lesser ones can be hugely damaging.