Rafael interview in The Athletic

[Snow]

And that critique is crap. A manager doesn't have to give everyone a chance. He can learn players before he starts his job and decide some just aren't good enough or right for him.

It's giving chance after chance to certain players - by new managers as well - that resulted with us being stuck with so much deadwood.

Sorry but how could he possibly learn about people if he's never met them before? You think you can just watch football matches and that way know everything about a player? Why the feck did SAF take so much time researching the families of players and their background before buying them? Because he was quirky? No because he knew what he was doing and knows how to work with people unlike LvG who can't. Unlike LvG who buys someone like Di Maria on a supposed whim because he certainly did not play him like Di Maria is used to and did not make him feel comfortable in Manchester which you usually do as a manager who wants the best out of his players.

If you really believe LvG learned about his players explain then why they played badly and why his transfers were so bad.

 

[Snow]

It's rather easy to watch football games and make up your mind about the ability of a player. You don't actually have to be his manager to do that.

We do that every day!

Again, football transfers should be easy then. Wonder why most of them fail...

 

[Andycoleno9]

He was better than our current first-choice right back.

Exactly

 

[Henrik Larsson]

That letting go of Rafael wasn't that bad a decision, as many would have you believe in this thread.

Replacing him with fecking Darmian certainly was though.

I'm not sure there's been a single player that has good things to say about LvG.

Except, very predictably, Wayne Rooney, the captain who always played and even was made the undisputed #9 in the season we had a record low amount of goals scored, and finished 5th behind City on goal difference. He even rates him above Sir Alex apparently.

No matter what level of professional football, it's nearly always about ego and which coach has faith in you and gives you game time or not (anymore). It's such a lame and boring dynamic, but I guess that's human nature.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...is-van-gaal-is-best-coach-he-has-worked-under

 

[Mainoldo]

I really thought all the LvG fanboys had repented but look at them still getting upset at criticism.

Shame Woody didn't get rid of him on day 2 instead.

I never understood when general common sense now starts making people fanboys.

Rafael a guy who’s left us to go on to do nothing in his career is getting applauded because he said something against a guy the fanbase doesn’t like.

Just tell the truth and stop being so sentimental.

 

[hasanejaz88]

It's interesting to see the contrasting opinion of United and Bayern to LvG, eventhough both tenors ended badly.

Not as a Bayern supporter but someone who has followed Bayern, I think he's been really influential in their rise to the top of Europe this decade. Before he arrived Bayern didn't have a set identity or paying style, therefore their form was also erratic from one manager to another. After he came in they firmly adopted a possession based style, which though was found out by his second season, really laid the foundation for what was to come.

Heynckes and Pep built on the improvement in holding possession for those Bayern players, along with the signing of Robben, made by LvG and no doubt they would not have been as successful had LvG not coached that into them.

Why it didn't work at United, maybe the players weren't as receptive to his disciplined, possession based coaching style, that was very different to that seen under Fergie. His signings not working out didn't help as well. While LvG did sign Robben, he also a signed crap like Edson Braafied.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

It's rather easy to watch football games and make up your mind about the ability of a player. You don't actually have to be his manager to do that.

We do that every day!

From what I've read in the past, that's usually not the way most managers go about it. Wouldn't it be fair to give everyone a chance under your management and system? If after that he thought Rafael wasn't worth it, then fair play, sell him.

He didn't even give the guy a chance yet he thought the likes of Rojo and Darmian are good enough for us.

 

[pascell]

It's interesting to see the contrasting opinion of United and Bayern to LvG, eventhough both tenors ended badly.

Not as a Bayern supporter but someone who has followed Bayern, I think he's been really influential in their rise to the top of Europe this decade. Before he arrived Bayern didn't have a set identity or paying style, therefore their form was also erratic from one manager to another. After he came in they firmly adopted a possession based style, which though was found out by his second season, really laid the foundation for what was to come.

Heynckes and Pep built on the improvement in holding possession for those Bayern players, along with the signing of Robben, made by LvG and no doubt they would not have been as successful had LvG not coached that into them.

We already had a playing style ingrained into the club, he tried to undo it and insert his into the club, that was why he was the wrong appointment. That wasn't his fault of course but the football under LvG was tumescent.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Always loved Rafael's attitude. It's fair enough people pointing to his lacklustre career since leaving as evidence of him not being good enough, but football is never quite that simple for me.

Had he had better luck with injuries along with a few more years coaching under SAF I reckon Rafael would have had a brilliant career with us, but that's how it goes I suppose.

Call me a fool but I'll always be a sucker for a Rafael / Hererra type. Heart goes a long way.

 

[Smores]

I never understood when general common sense now starts making people fanboys.

Rafael a guy who’s left us to go on to do nothing in his career is getting applauded because he said something against a guy the fanbase doesn’t like.

Just tell the truth and stop being so sentimental.

That's probably because you think defending the oaf is common sense. People don't suddenly forget all the months on months of absolute nonsense spouted to defend the man.

I'll trust Fergie's judgement (and Giggs too it appears) on the player and you can stick up for LvG instead.

 

[Amir]

Again, football transfers should be easy then. Wonder why most of them fail...

Sorry but how could he possibly learn about people if he's never met them before? You think you can just watch football matches and that way know everything about a player? Why the feck did SAF take so much time researching the families of players and their background before buying them? Because he was quirky? No because he knew what he was doing and knows how to work with people unlike LvG who can't. Unlike LvG who buys someone like Di Maria on a supposed whim because he certainly did not play him like Di Maria is used to and did not make him feel comfortable in Manchester which you usually do as a manager who wants the best out of his players.

There's a difference between signing a new player and decide whether to keep one you already have.

When you look for a new player. it's what he can do on the pitch that attracts you, and then you should look to learn other stuff about him and his personality.

But when it's a player you already have or when you take over a new team, all those other things don't matter if you don't think what he can do on the pitch is right for you. And what a player does on the pitch is hardly a secret you can only learn when you work with him personally.

I think Van Gaal was clearly reckless with some of his signings and didn't do enough homework on them. But deciding to let a player go without giving him a chance just isn't an issue.

 

[Amir]

From what I've read in the past, that's usually not the way most managers go about it. Wouldn't it be fair to give everyone a chance under your management and system? If after that he thought Rafael wasn't worth it, then fair play, sell him.

He didn't even give the guy a chance yet he thought the likes of Rojo and Darmian are good enough for us.

Van Gaal clearly got a lot wrong, but I don't think every player deserves a chance just because a new manager arrives.

If we sack Ole, should we give Jones and Rojo another chance?

Or, why didn't Ole give Fellaini and Lukaku a chance?

The ability and style of players are not secrets.

 

[Snow]

There's a difference between signing a new player and decide whether to keep one you already have.

When you look for a new player. it's what he can do on the pitch that attracts you, and then you should look to learn other stuff about him and his personality.

But when it's a player you already have or when you take over a new team, all those other things don't matter if you don't think what he can do on the pitch is right for you. And what a player does on the pitch is hardly a secret you can only learn when you work with him personally.

I think Van Gaal was clearly reckless with some of his signings and didn't do enough homework on them. But deciding to let a player go without giving him a chance just isn't an issue.

That's not what you said though. You said that LvG had already done his homework and knew what kind of players he had. How could he know if he had never met them or talked to them?

Van Gaal clearly got a lot wrong, but I don't think every player deserves a chance just because a new manager arrives.

If we sack Ole, should we give Jones and Rojo another chance?

Or, why didn't Ole give Fellaini and Lukaku a chance?

The ability and style of players are not secrets.

Jones and Rojo aren't playing under Ole. Rojo was loaned out. Rafael was playing regularly for SAF and Moyes. Ole did give Fellaini and Lukaku a chance. They both played for him.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's probably because you think defending the oaf is common sense. People don't suddenly forget all the months on months of absolute nonsense spouted to defend the man.

I'll trust Fergie's judgement (and Giggs too it appears) on the player and you can stick up for LvG instead.

What’s your thoughts on Phil Jones?

 

[Shark]

That's probably because you think defending the oaf is common sense. People don't suddenly forget all the months on months of absolute nonsense spouted to defend the man.

I'll trust Fergie's judgement (and Giggs too it appears) on the player and you can stick up for LvG instead.

I think pretty much everyone is in agreement that Rafael was a decent player in SAF's final season, then he got injured one too many times and hasn't done anything of note since for United or Lyon. So while SAF's judgment was right at the time, there's absolutely no guarantee that he'd have build on that season.

 

[Amir]

That's not what you said though. You said that LvG had already done his homework and knew what kind of players he had. How could he know if he had never met them or talked to them?

I would assume he's done his homework and knew what kind of players he had. You don't need to meet a player in order to know what he can do on the pitch.

Jones and Rojo aren't playing under Ole. Rojo was loaned out. Rafael was playing regularly for SAF and Moyes. Ole did give Fellaini and Lukaku a chance. They both played for him.

Fellaini was gone within weeks of Solskjaer's appointment. He never got a chance.

Jones isn't playing for us, but hey, maybe he would be right for another manager? So if we appoint one - give him a chance! How would the manager know if he's good enough if he doesn't play?

 

[Revan]

He was briliant in Fergie's last season. Unfortunately, he was nowhere near that in 2013/14 as he was injured a lot (again).

I liked him, but in reality it wasn't some weird decision to move on from him.

I agree that he regressed under Moyes and LVG and then didn’t set the world on fire when he left.

Like many of our other players, he was not that great but looked great under Fergie, and have no doubt that would have continued being one of the best RBs in the league had SAF continued. 2012-2013 was hardly an one off, he was near as good in 2010-2011 until he got injured and consequently lost his place to Fabio.

 

[Amir]

Like many of our other players, he was not that great but looked great under Fergie, and have no doubt that would have continued being one of the best RBs in the league had SAF continued. 2012-2013 was hardly an one off, he was near as good in 2010-2011 until he got injured and consequently lost his place to Fabio.

It was those injuries that caused him great damage. When he was fit for long periods of time he did well and improved.

To think we were dreaming of a decade with Fabio at LB and Rafael at RB.

 

[Revan]

I do not like LVG that much, but I do not think he did much wrong on telling players to leave without giving them a chance to improve.

If I would suddenly win the lottery and become United’s manager tomorrow (with a big check on signing new players) there are at least 5 players that I would say the same. The so called deadwood does not deserve the chance to prove his worth to the manager. Doing so is a recipe on keeping Jones for 10 seasons here.

 

[Kazi]

LvG is a nutcase by all accounts

 

[Snow]

I would assume he's done his homework and knew what kind of players he had. You don't need to meet a player in order to know what he can do on the pitch.

Fellaini was gone within weeks of Solskjaer's appointment. He never got a chance.

Jones isn't playing for us, but hey, maybe he would be right for another manager? So if we appoint one - give him a chance! How would the manager know if he's good enough if he doesn't play?

Why do you assume that? Why can he do that with a team he's never met but can't do that with players he buys?

Fellaini was here a 5 weeks. That's more than enough to assess what kind of person and player he is in training, to gauge what kind of relationship he has with the rest of the group. Also Solskjær knows everyone at the club and also, more importantly, listens to what others that do know more have to say. Moyes for example when he joined he threw all that out the window and replaced it with his own. That did not help the dressing room.

 

[POF]

Rooney, think that's about it.

Yep. It's a massive mystery why Rooney, who Van Gaal played every week despite being clearly past it, rates him.

Saying he was "the best manager" he played under was also a nice way to criticise Fergie.

Rafael might not have been the best player to ever play for United but what he represented is what Ole is desperately trying to get back at the club right now.

Rafael hit the nail on the head when he said that Van Gaal doesn't like players who play instinctively or more with their heart than their head. That is definitely his mantra and it's also why he has issues with Brazilian players.

There's more to football management than tactics. Getting the best out of the players you have and giving them confidence and freedom to express themselves is key when managing players at elite clubs.

It's not surprising that an ego maniac with a God complex doesn't appreciate that and he did irreparable danage to the club as a result.

 

[jem]

One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that Rafael was one season removed from playing a very significant part in our last title win. Everyone was shit under Moyes, so I think he definitely deserved a chance, given that he was still only 24 (I believe.) The fact that he underwhelmed after leaving isn’t so simple either. Some players adapt to different environments in different ways (eg. Di Maria and Memphis were both garbage for us, and yet have done well elsewhere.)

 

[Hammondo]

He was better than our current first-choice right back.

Injuries aside he was very good. He put Ronaldo in his pocket, he was throwing strops all over the place.

 

[Amir]

Why do you assume that? Why can he do that with a team he's never met but can't do that with players he buys?

So what, he had no idea who Rafael was? Never saw him play, but just decided 'he's not for me'?

We know that's not true because Van Gaal faced Rafael when he coached Bayern.

How much he saw United play aside from that, no one knows. But if it was so clear for him this particular player didn't fit him, he must have had his reasons.

Fellaini was here a 5 weeks. That's more than enough to assess what kind of person and player he is in training, to gauge what kind of relationship he has with the rest of the group. Also Solskjær knows everyone at the club and also, more importantly, listens to what others that do know more have to say. Moyes for example when he joined he threw all that out the window and replaced it with his own. That did not help the dressing room.

The fact Fellaini was here an amazing FIVE WEEKS with Ole doesn't mean he was given a chance. He was pretty much ignored, got the message and left.

You say five weeks is enough to "assess what kind of person and player he is in training", but that's my whole point. You DON'T need to work with a player in order to know what kind of player he is, as you can review their past performances. And there are times you can say right away: He's not the right player for me.

Just for example - you want a full back who is a great attacker. Would you need to give Wan Bissaka a few weeks in training? Or you want quick centerhalves. What would be the point in giving Maguire a chance? He's just not that player.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Our best Right Back since Gary Neville.

 

[Zlaatan]

Rafael should be grateful that he didn't have to participate all that much in the slow, boring, life sucking, endless passing to get nowhere style of LVG football.

 

[led_scholes]

It's interesting to see the contrasting opinion of United and Bayern to LvG, eventhough both tenors ended badly.

Not as a Bayern supporter but someone who has followed Bayern, I think he's been really influential in their rise to the top of Europe this decade. Before he arrived Bayern didn't have a set identity or paying style, therefore their form was also erratic from one manager to another. After he came in they firmly adopted a possession based style, which though was found out by his second season, really laid the foundation for what was to come.

Heynckes and Pep built on the improvement in holding possession for those Bayern players, along with the signing of Robben, made by LvG and no doubt they would not have been as successful had LvG not coached that into them.

Why it didn't work at United, maybe the players weren't as receptive to his disciplined, possession based coaching style, that was very different to that seen under Fergie. His signings not working out didn't help as well. While LvG did sign Robben, he also a signed crap like Edson Braafied.

Well five years can change many things in someone's ability. And perhaps LVG built a foundation there, however the football that Bayern played under Heynckes cannot be compared to LVG's Bayern, who fluked their way to the final through dodgy decisions against Fiorentina and United, only to be completely outclassed by Mourinho. Heynckes elevated Bayern to standards that LVG could only dream.

 

[Denis79]

LVG was a disaster here, I remember when he played Young as a striker. Spurs trashed us 3-0 that game.

 

[Redplane]

LVG was a disaster here, I remember when he played Young as a striker. Spurs trashed us 3-0 that game.

One thing you cant say about the guy is that he wasn't creative.

 

[POF]

One thing you cant say about the guy is that he wasn't creative.

His teams certainly weren't.

 

[Denis79]

One thing you cant say about the guy is that he wasn't creative.

If he had won, it would have been seen as a masterclass move but we didn't, they trashed us. So he just made himself look like a fool.

 

[R'hllor]

We talking about same injury prone right back right? Shit football and all but getting rid of Rafael wasnt a mistake, loved his attitude but yea.

 

[Redplane]

If he had won, it would have been seen as a masterclass move but we didn't, they trashed us. So he just made himself look like a fool.

Ive always likened LVG to the (smarter) footie world version of Donnie Trump. Wont tolerate dissent - his way or the highway - thinking that bc of those crazy moments when crazy moves work out he must be a genius (like the Krul sub at the Brazil WC) so he keeps doing them, boisterous, batshit crazy, cant joke at his expense, etc. The man seriously missed an opportunity to go into politics and become a dictator somewhere. Fortunately for me/us though I can mostly just chuckle about it all.

 

[Denis79]

Ive always likened LVG to the (smarter) footie world version of Donnie Trump. Wont tolerate dissent - his way or the highway - thinking that bc of those crazy moments when crazy moves work out he must be a genius (like the Krul sub at the Brazil WC) so he keeps doing them, boisterous, etc.

Haha good analogy, did enjoy when he threw himself to the ground to protest the free kick, can't remember who we played then. Arsenal?

 

[Bebestation]

It's interesting to see the contrasting opinion of United and Bayern to LvG, eventhough both tenors ended badly.

Not as a Bayern supporter but someone who has followed Bayern, I think he's been really influential in their rise to the top of Europe this decade. Before he arrived Bayern didn't have a set identity or paying style, therefore their form was also erratic from one manager to another. After he came in they firmly adopted a possession based style, which though was found out by his second season, really laid the foundation for what was to come.

Heynckes and Pep built on the improvement in holding possession for those Bayern players, along with the signing of Robben, made by LvG and no doubt they would not have been as successful had LvG not coached that into them.

Why it didn't work at United, maybe the players weren't as receptive to his disciplined, possession based coaching style, that was very different to that seen under Fergie. His signings not working out didn't help as well. While LvG did sign Robben, he also a signed crap like Edson Braafied.

It was the same in Barcelona as well and he got to manage that team twice. However,

Theres 2 levels to Van Gaal - the boring football that's like the icing part of a cake; the part of the cake that is easily seen and judged

And then theres the tactical build up of a squad which is so clearly thought by the player and is slow that it becomes tumescent and strong eventually.

I just wish he got that 3rd year with us because I was just seeing it start to come together - the partnerships between Martial & Rashford, the Smalling & Blind's etc.

He's a proper teacher with a history of poor transfers at all his clubs. I just personally know that the people who dont get Van Gaal is not for me to talk about tactics with. The same type of fans who were crying to hire Jose after him and then complain 2 seasons after about how he shouldn't have been hired after LVG because they play 2 different types of football; then blame woodward for it. Blame the players for being crap like sanchez, Pogba etc when they were excited in the signing in the first place when they should have know that they dont fit a certain tactical philosophy.

That ruined what he was building here like he helped out at bayern & Barcelona to varying degress. I also felt his first season of Falcao and big name players wasnt all his idea but Woodward's panic towards getting back to the CL because the difference between that and season two were miles apart.

Just gutted about that one more season because it was obvious to me (as a follower of his tactics) from 5 years ago that Martial False 9 would happen competing with a player like Memphis whilst Rashford would be out wide the season after his breakthrough.

Keeping a player like Blind or Memphis would have been better than Rafeal any day of the week for me. Jose came ditched the players and the system as soon as he got here except for times when he had to use it like the Europa League final vs Ajax.

Like Giggs and Rooney said - the best tactical manager I've seen at United & him not winning things instantly doesnt change that for me.

 

[RC89]

Raf wasn't the biggest loss but I'd have kept him over Darmian any day. It's the lack of respect in LVG's communication to players that gets me (if it's true). According to RVP, he just told him to go look for another club, just like that. Rafa seems to say a similar thing. Atleast have the decency to sit them down and explain your thought process. Not to say he needs to be negotiable on these decision but a little bit of courtesy goes a long way. I'd understand if the player was disrespectful in some way or there'd been a big falling out. He seems to be cruel for the sake of being assertive.

 

[ghaliboy]

I think Rooney did like LVG, maybe not a human side but the tactical or pre and post game preparation.

As if Rooney didn't read him straight away and know they could take the absolute piss out of him.

 

[Bebestation]

‘Louis van Gaal taught me another way of football, especially how to set up the team defensively, how to squeeze the pitch and suffocate a team. He went into so much detail and was so particular that we were difficult to play against when we got it right,’ the current United coach writes.

‘The period when it looked like we were making strong progress was in March-April 2015. We played Spurs, Liverpool and City and beat them all comfortably. When we went to Anfield, Brendan Rodgers had Liverpool playing a box in midfield, with Adam Lallana and Philippe Coutinho coming in off the sides.

‘To combat that, Louis told me to play midfield when we got the ball and centre half when we didn’t, dropping between Chris Smalling and Phil Jones so we’d always have this overload. It allowed one of them to push all the way in on their side and I just dropped a little deeper, which saved me from running from one side to the other. I moved up and back instead of across the pitch.

‘We tried it in a practice match at Carrington against Giggsy’s side. Giggsy always took the opposition the day before the game, 11 v 11, and we were all over the place. Giggsy’s players kept getting through. I remember saying to Chris and Phil, “Oh, we’re getting pulled all over the place here.” Louis walked past me with a smile on his face, going, “I’ve made it easy for you tomorrow!” “What do you mean?” “I’ve made it easy. Look, Chris there, Phil there. You don’t have to do anything. You have them all around you. Just read it.”

‘Louis showed me my position between them, creating the overload, and supposedly blocking out the space that Liverpool could use. In the end, it was the best performance I’ve seen from us at Anfield by a mile. All of Louis’s details stayed in my mind, like knowing when to drop back, and, yes, it worked. This was Louis at his best. Juan Mata won the game with an incredible scissor-kick.’

- Michael Carrick on LVG.

Better add him to the giggs & rooney list - people assume Rooney called him the best tactical manager he has played under simply due to being his captain.

Anyone who knows tactics were understanding what LVG was doing and it was great to watch being used & be slowly built up in our team.

The fans who know crap all about it were calling it boring football and ended up crying out for jose instead.

 

[el3mel]

LVG was a disaster here, I remember when he played Young as a striker. Spurs trashed us 3-0 that game.

This game was an absolute disaster. I remember it pretty well. He subbed Rashford off in half time for Young, people expected him to put Martial upfront but he went on and put Young as a striker and kept Martial left. He had Rashford and Martial but he chose Ashley fecking Young to play as number 9.

Our attacking lineup was Martial left, Lingard central, Mata right and Young upfront.

Then he had the nerve to come post game and moan about how Martial missed a chance (that he created on his own) and how Spurs have better players than us.

Absolute disaster of a manager for us. I absolutely couldn't wait to see his fecking face out of the club.

I will keep saying it, one of the most overrated managers ever but him and his cult believe he's some sort of a footballing God with ideas and philosophy only he knows apparently.