perhaps it’s a bit similar to Rooney’s “angry and confused” moments?
Raiola: "I can say that it's over for Pogba at United"
- Thread starter crossy1686
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I do believe he loves the club, but its brand management isn't it? He's got someone else who is happy to say the things he'd probably like to say, but without the damage it does to him, as people blame the agent. So he can just be positive and glowing about the club in his personal interviews. It's smart, its why having an agent like Raiola must be great.
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Maybe Raiola is Raiola and just doing Raiola stuff? Doesn´t strike me as a man that asks permission from clients for every comment he makes.
The man just seem to love to piss clubs and fans off.
Absolute bollocks I think. He acts on behalf of his clients, what he puts out there is calculated and will always be okayed first by the player.
Pogbas next big contract will be his last big contract and i think it is reasonable that he will think through his options. He and Raiola has probably agreed to look around for options, so, he obviously has Pogbas OK to look for offers from another club but i seriously don´t think that Pogba has specified exactly what he should say and when.
Think you're being a bit naive personally, might not be word for word scripted by the player himself, but these Pogba moments constantly happen at similar times. If he didn't like the timings of the little shit storms, he'd have put a stop to it years ago, he hasn't. It's calculated with his consent. Raiola works for Paul Pogba, he's the boss.
Do agents profit when a player moves? I feel like Pogba is pretty naive and probably gets messed around by people only feigning to have his best interests in mind.
Ah, bless ya.
Do you think the likes of Keane, Rooney, Ruud, Rio and even Giggs would have happily stayed at Utd during their prime if Utd were shit and struggling to even make the CL each season? I expect most, if not all, of those players to have forced their way out if they'd been in a team with a similar level of quality and results as Pogba has had. Doesn't mean that they didn't love the club, but a footballer's prime is quite short and most top players want to win or at least be competing at the very top. Pogba wants to leave but will always have a soft spot for the club, and if he actually believes that we're turning things around and will be competitive for the next few years he might even change his mind. That doesn't necessarily mean we should give him a new contract though - an argument could be made that the team would be better if we moved him on and used that money to sign a different type of player.
And before anyone says anything, obviously Pogba hasn't performed as well as those players I named above so I'm not saying he's at their level.
It’s not working though, is it? People on here (and I think Pogba-wise the CAF is reasonably representative) who reckon it’s Big Bad Raiola corrupting Loyal Innocent Pogba are massively outnumbered by those who believe player and agent are in cahoots, with the former driving it all.
The key thing for me is that Ole clearly likes and rates Pogba, while not being so in awe of him and his reputation that he’s unable to drop him.
I agree with you, I think Pogba is fully appraised and in approval of Raiola's tactics. However, is this scenario really so hard to believe?
I bet there are many occasions where a manipulative agent with years of experience in shady dealings can basically sell anything to a young player with little experience in such matters. They will convince them that they have their best interests at heart, I know what I'm doing etc, you can concentrate on what matters on the pitch, let me worry about the club relations, contracts and the media. I'm sure it happens all the time.
It is calculated but the players obviously don't vet every single word he says. His overall goal is to get what the player wants in terms of higher wage and/or transfer, and he goes about it his own way. As long as he succeeds in that goal (something that he has proven he does) players aren't going to fire him or publicly attack him, even if occasionally he does go overboard. There's been twice now over the last few years where he's said something then within 24 hours he's started to walk it back, which indicates that most likely Pogba told him he'd gone too far at those times and asked him to pull his head in a bit.
I’m sure it does but my reply was meant to show that @Alan Partridge was trying to see it from a kinder, softer perspective which is quite sweet in this harsh and cynical world.
Spot on.
He’s not your shady neighbour. He is literally the biggest football agent.
And Pogba is not that naive either.
And because he is the biggest football agent means he cannot be manipulative or look to take full advantage of his clients situation? He hasn't become the biggest agent by being a gentle character.
I don't mean it in the sense that he is looking to rip these lads off, just that he is likely to be willing to steer them to his way of thinking in order to maximise his own earnings. They will make money on the deal too of course. But it isn't hard to imagine some young players finding an agents way of dealing with things distasteful whilst being convinced that it is for their benefit.
Also, I never said Pogba was that naive. It is literally in my post.
Listen if Pogba is playing well to make sure he gets his big transfer at the end of the season that only benefits us. 1. He can help us chase that title we've missed for the last 8 years 2. It will drive up his value.
Same. Maybe he just got frustrated when he wasn't playing. And set his dog loose in the media?
I think his comment about playing for himself first and the team second does give a slight insight.
If he stays motivated and playing like he has, I would love him to stay!
100%
He doesn’t seem like a player who wants to leave at any cost to me.. and with the recent U-turn from Haaland regarding his future at Dortmund, I’m guessing this was always about Raiola just trying to move his players around for a pay day
I really wish haaland wasn’t represented by him.. I think he’d be a United player by now if he wasn’t, and we’d be walking this league right now
I really wish haaland wasn’t represented by him.. I think he’d be a United player by now if he wasn’t, and we’d be walking this league right now
Despite Pogba himself and his agent repeatedly saying so? I find it baffling that people ignore what someone says in order to apply their own fantasy instead.
I don't think Raiola would stay an agent to as many top players as he does if he was going rogue with these statements. Maybe they don't go through what he's going to say word for word, but Pogba would have definitely signed off on Raiola sending a particular type of message in the media. As others have said, it's quite clever, because it makes Raiola the bad guy (which he clearly doesn't mind being), while Pogba can maintain deniability. I think Pogba uses Raiola to keep his options open; he indicates to other clubs he's open to moves through Raiola, while keeping his commitment to the club with his own public statements.
It's not the most honourable way to go about these things obviously, and sometimes I wonder if Pogba is a little naive, and just does what Raiola suggests, because the statements he makes don't actually help with Pogba's image all that much; if anything it increases the controversy around him.
There is no way he made that comment without speaking to Pogba
Yeah, you might be right. Maybe they (Raiola+Pogba) think they need to piss the board off a bit to convince them it is the right time to sell. Even if it is at a lower fee than they would ideally want. I don`t think they need it to signal that he is available. I`m sure Raiola has the number to the few clubs that might have the money and interest. Still think this ”tactic” is all Raiolas ideas. But sure, Pogba obviously knows how Raiolas filthy mind works better than most by now and probably agreed to it so he has to carry some blame.
good cop bad cop
It’s not a fantasy though, I don’t really care for him either way tbh, just saying it as I see.. we’ve all seen players trying to force moves.. he doesn’t give that impression to me,
maybe his agent asked him to say it, how would we know? Wouldn’t put it last Raiola would you?
Mate, he literally sat in Adidas/Pogba clothing unveiling and said “I don’t want to be at United anymore”. This was a club event as well, it wasn’t even something he can say was taken out of context.
If you don’t want to believe that then go and look at all the things he’s said on France duty. “Madrid are a great club, I’d love to play for them one day”.
You’re lying to yourself at this point.
I think he’ll stay. I don’t see anyone offering us what he’s worth.
We'll miss his presence at corners when he's gone and few, if anyone, in football can hold off a player like a him.
Whats he worth?
I'd sell him for £50m personally, good deal in the current market. Take that and £20m over to Villa and test their resolve for Grealish
With 18 months left of his deal, unless he signs back on, what he's worth will drop rapidly.
I don't think we actually need him. We'd be much better of selling him and investing in a couple of solid midfielders that is fit for purpose instead of shoehorning him into games without much purpose other than to be a strong guy.
With 18 months left it will soon be less about what he's worth and more about what we can get. Come summer if he doesnt renew he'll enter his last year and will leave for free at the end of it. Again.
He is top top class player. We need him. If hexwants to stay, of course. If his mind is in Madrid or Turin then no point of keeping him
I think other players such as Iniesta, Xavi, Scholes and Zidane is much better. Even players such as Modric, Ballack, Lampard, Cambiasso, Essien, Seedorf the list is very long of class players because of different reasons but they are all different but they all stand out from Pogba. I think Pogba has the mentality of an attacker. It's much more common of attackers to have a kinda fragile mentality where as traditionally midfielders are leaders. Sure Pogba comparison is very bleak once you start mentioning great midfielders from past generations and it does give him some leeway because he is part of this new generation of footballers like Neymar, Salah etc. Even De Bruyne before he went to Germany was perceived as a a bit of a child. It's a relevant excuse I think because his talent when younger was certainly comparable to the greatest midfielders of our time, sadly that is not how it has panned out though. He is certainly disposable and not every midfielder that might be less talented is going to be a worse player. Bruno has showed exactly that and the team has evolved so much because of it. Putting your money in the Pogba hitting his potential basket is a terrible gamble we can't afford, we need to move on to better things.
Honestly wouldn’t shock me if he somehow ended up signing a new deal, I would also not be shocked if he left for a free in 18 months.
Literally playing midfielders that struggle with 10 yard passes but Pogba’s the issue.
‘A couple Solid midfielders’ ffs! so we can continue to struggle for possession in big games with a few more McTominay’s recycling possession for the opposition. If the ‘purpose’ is to sit back & hope for counterattacks then we may aswell get rid of Bruno as well while we’re at it.
When he came on to provide the assist against PSG, was he simply a strong guy? How about when the mighty McFred were masterminding our way to a 1-1 draw against Newcastle for him to come on then we go on a goal blitz? The list can go on, the guy can’t win with his own fanbase; far & away one of our best players but let’s sell him for something more ‘solid’.
Can you find midfielders more combative? Hell yes. You’ll find midfielders that run rounds lots more too but when your first 11 is hardly full of the most technical players you don’t sell the one midfielder that can keep possession in his sleep.
You’d think he’s been Denilson the way people go on, the man does more in cameos than ‘solid’ Caf faves & that’s not debatable.
You sir and this post is the real MVP, I love Bruno think he's a really good player (not as high as some people go on) but the way people ignore the obvious about our general play I cannot understand. I saw people criticising Martial first half like Bruno wasn't playing Kick Ball Rounders in the first half he was literally hoofing it in the air at times.
Literally playing midfielders that struggle with 10 yard passes but Pogba’s the issue.
‘A couple Solid midfielders’ ffs! so we can continue to struggle for possession in big games with a few more McTominay’s recycling possession for the opposition. If the ‘purpose’ is to sit back & hope for counterattacks then we may aswell get rid of Bruno as well while we’re at it.
When he came on to provide the assist against PSG, was he simply a strong guy? How about when the mighty McFred were masterminding our way to a 1-1 draw against Newcastle for him to come on then we go on a goal blitz? The list can go on, the guy can’t win with his own fanbase; far & away one of our best players but let’s sell him for something more ‘solid’.
Can you find midfielders more combative? Hell yes. You’ll find midfielders that run rounds lots more too but when your first 11 is hardly full of the most technical players you don’t sell the one midfielder that can keep possession in his sleep.
You’d think he’s been Denilson the way people go on, the man does more in cameos than ‘solid’ Caf faves & that’s not debatable.
I mean Liverpool had 2 DMs in CB and Thiago and were pivoting play all match.
Pogba played so well for being out of position - such an underrated, under-appreciated and misunderstood player by United fans.
Would love to see a midfield of Fred/Matic, Pogba and Bruno, but in order to do that, you need CBs who won't crumble at the first sign of a runner or tricky forward - want to see us outplay and dominate some of these big teams we have to get more expansive especially if we want to compete in Europe in the future.