Ralf Rangnick | Austria manager

[DJ_21]

Murtough was the one who wanted Rangnick. Clearly he didn't do any homework .

Along with most of the fans. Everyone was all for hiring rangnick and then moving him upstairs but then suddenly turned on him when he couldn’t get this useless squad to perform.

 

[Withnail]

As I've said in other threads, if you think of things in a United States business sense, Rangnick was brought in as a hatchet man: figure out what role everyone has, how competent they are in it, and whether it's possible to improve it. And then fire everyone obsolete/underperforming before the next guy comes in, so that the air is clear for them and they can move forward and they then hire a nicer, more encouraging manager to try to get things moving in the right direction. Look at who was fired, and who "left" their roles over the season. It's pretty obvious what Rangnick did for us.

You don't bring in a first team manager to run the rule over your whole operation and suggest who should leave as part of a major restructuring of the club. The manager is supposed to concentrate on getting the first team performing and he couldn't even do that. It's a bit ridiculous to think he had anything to do with those who left.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

Harsh defeat, as Austria played really well. Really ought to have won that game considering the chances, and the fact that Denmark’s winning goal was a 1 in 100 stunner.

 

[Lyng]

Along with most of the fans. Everyone was all for hiring rangnick and then moving him upstairs but then suddenly turned on him when he couldn’t get this useless squad to perform.

Well I was all for Rangnick because I believed the clubs PR about moving him upstairs afterwards, because there he could actually help the club. If the whole idea was to bring him in just to be an interim it was a incredibly stupid idea. He hasnt really managed for years and never in a club the size of United.
On top of that his highest managing success has always been in long term projects. Bringing in someone who stands for a style that our current players would never be able to perform more than 20 minutes in a whole season seems so utterly silly that I could not believe that was all there was to it.
Murtough seems as clueless as Woodward if that was the whole idea.

 

[Adnan]

Well I was all for Rangnick because I believed the clubs PR about moving him upstairs afterwards, because there he could actually help the club. If the whole idea was to bring him in just to be an interim it was a incredibly stupid idea. He hasnt really managed for years and never in a club the size of United.
On top of that his highest managing success has always been in long term projects. Bringing in someone who stands for a style that our current players would never be able to perform more than 20 minutes in a whole season seems so utterly silly that I could not believe that was all there was to it.
Murtough seems as clueless as Woodward if that was the whole idea.

Dan Ashworth who has been very successful as a director of football both at youth level and EPL level, tried and failed to appoint Rangnick as head coach at West Brom and the England NT. And Ashworth was over-ruled by David Gill (ex United) and Martin Glenn who were reportedly pushing for Sam Allardyce and Steve Bruce for the England job. Ashworth like Murtough was correct in his thinking which involved the now and the mid to long-term. Both DoFs attempted to evolve the play style of their clubs and the English NT imo. And that for me was the correct decision, but in United's case you can't compensate for several of the key coaching staff departing shortly after Rangnick's arrival.

And as far as Rangnick not having his consultancy role anymore is down to Erik ten Hag according to Guido Schafer who is the Chief reporter at Leipziger Volkszeitung. And according to him, once Ralf spoke to Erik ten Hag, their ideas were very similar and there was no need for Ralf after that. Erik ten Hag will advise and consult the football departments in the next few years and it seems he's made that clear to the club. Which is understandable because ten Hag's approach to dominate the game is different to Rangnick. And then there's also Steve Mclaren who teh Hag could lean on for advice on potential surprises in the EPL.

 

[moses]

Along with most of the fans. Everyone was all for hiring rangnick and then moving him upstairs but then suddenly turned on him when he couldn’t get this useless squad to perform.

Exactly, he was hailed by many as some sort of managerial genius. I was laughed at for admitting I wasn't fully aware of his genius. That said, despite his awful record here I liked him and wouldn't have minded if he stayed around.

 

[Adnan]

Exactly, he was hailed by many as some sort of managerial genius. I was laughed at for admitting I wasn't fully aware of his genius. That said, despite his awful record here I liked him and wouldn't have minded if he stayed around.

He was hailed as a managerial genius by people who naively believed the likes of Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc learned everything from Rangnick. Klopp for example was mentored by the late Wolfgang Frank who in-turn was inspired by Arrigo Sacchi. Tuchel was inspired by the likes of Wenger, Guardiola etc.

And it all stemmed from one man who put positional play on the map in the 1970s. And that man was Rinus Michels.

 

[stevoc]

Murtough was the one who wanted Rangnick. Clearly he didn't do any homework .

From the accounts Murtagh gave the decision to sack Solksjaer was taken pretty quickly after the Watford game and Rangnick announced as Interim less than a week later. So Murtagh and the club probably just took a punt on someone Murtagh was familiar with and who they knew they could get in place very quickly. They most likely just wanted an experienced hand who they (wrongly) thought could steady the ship and salvage the season.

 

[CallyRed]

Ah his team lost last night. Now I'm glad we got rid of him. Unlike on Friday when they won, I wasn't happy that we got rid of him.

 

[Samid]

He won the xG. Get in!

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[Needham]

Why does everyone have to prefix their criticism of this guy with I like him but...
The guy was so boring it was in and of itself nasty. Home life with the Rangnicks ffs. You've got to bleed for his missus when she says what do you want for dinner and yet again he says peas and potatoes. By this stage, we are a retirement home for European football management's superannuated waifs and strays. 10 Harg better be different.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Murtough was the one who wanted Rangnick. Clearly he didn't do any homework .

Murtough if I remember correctly spent years studying under Ralf. He’s done his homework.

Swear if Murtough had a spanish name people round here would respect him more

 

[pascell]

Murtough if I remember correctly spent years studying under Ralf. He’s done his homework.

Swear if Murtough had a spanish name people round here would respect him more

You haven't remembered correctly as Murtough has only worked for the PL, Everton, Coventry and Fulham prior to taking up his role with United.

 

[do.ob]

Dan Ashworth who has been very successful as a director of football both at youth level and EPL level, tried and failed to appoint Rangnick as head coach at West Brom and the England NT. And Ashworth was over-ruled by David Gill (ex United) and Martin Glenn who were reportedly pushing for Sam Allardyce and Steve Bruce for the England job. Ashworth like Murtough was correct in his thinking which involved the now and the mid to long-term. Both DoFs attempted to evolve the play style of their clubs and the English NT imo. And that for me was the correct decision, but in United's case you can't compensate for several of the key coaching staff departing shortly after Rangnick's arrival.

And as far as Rangnick not having his consultancy role anymore is down to Erik ten Hag according to Guido Schafer who is the Chief reporter at Leipziger Volkszeitung. And according to him, once Ralf spoke to Erik ten Hag, their ideas were very similar and there was no need for Ralf after that. Erik ten Hag will advise and consult the football departments in the next few years and it seems he's made that clear to the club. Which is understandable because ten Hag's approach to dominate the game is different to Rangnick. And then there's also Steve Mclaren who teh Hag could lean on for advice on potential surprises in the EPL.

Ah Guido Schäfer.. You may know him from his book: "We are Leipzig: 111 reasons to be a Red Bull, with a foreword written by Ralf Rangnick." He's not a source for objective information.

Rangnick is a great choice for Austria and a good pick for a lot of smaller clubs that want to build something long term. But appointing him as a caretaker for half a year at a club like Man Utd was always a bit of a mad gamble.

 

[Mike Smalling]

He won the xG. Get in!

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What the hell is xThreat and Field Tilt? These stat nerds need to be stopped.

 

[Samid]

What the hell is xThreat and Field Tilt? These stat nerds need to be stopped.

You’re just jealous he won those too.

 

[Adnan]

Ah Guido Schäfer.. You may know him from his book: "We are Leipzig: 111 reasons to be a Red Bull, with a foreword written by Ralf Rangnick." He's not a source for objective information.

Rangnick is a great choice for Austria and a good pick for a lot of smaller clubs that want to build something long term. But appointing him as a caretaker for half a year at a club like Man Utd was always a bit of a mad gamble.

Schafer may or may not be a source for objective news but has gone on record saying Erik ten Hag put paid to Rangnick's consultancy role. And he's not the only journalist who has alluded to that.

It doesn't matter who the club chose because the supposed candidates were all gambles. The most experienced one out of the reported candidates was Valverde who had won a league title with Barcelona. But according to reports in Spain at the time, he only wanted the job on a full-time basis. And then when you factor in Kieran Mckenna, Carrick and Pert also leaving with little warning, then the job has become even more difficult for anyone coming in with games coming thick and fast.

 

[hasanejaz88]

So over the past decade, Rangnick spent, what, 2 years in a coaching job? And the rest he spent in a front office job, building up Hoffenheim and then the Red Bull monstrosity. By last winter he'd been a coach for like 2 months in the last, what 9 years? How exactly did United think this was the guy to rescue this season? The whole point of hiring him should have been the consultancy gig, whatever form that took - if United were smart, that's shadow DoF - instead they hired literally an EX manager to be only a manager?

Why do people forget he was a manager for a full season in-between Hassenhutl leaving and Nagelsmann coming, in 2018-19? If you want to pedantic he also managed their season in the second division where he took them up.

 

[giorno]

Why do people forget he was a manager for a full season in-between Hassenhutl leaving and Nagelsmann coming, in 2018-19? If you want to pedantic he also managed their season in the second division where he took them up.

Because we don't follow this dude or the red bull abomination closely? So ok, he coached for an extra year, at a club he built, with players he signed, playing the brand of football he instilled in the club, with far fewer personalities and expectations, at a lower level

 

[Mike Smalling]

You’re just jealous he won those too.

Yeah, guilty as charged. As a small consolation we won the ActualGoals category, but noone cares about that anymore.

 

[do.ob]

Schafer may or may not be a source for objective news but has gone on record saying Erik ten Hag put paid to Rangnick's consultancy role. And he's not the only journalist who has alluded to that.

It doesn't matter who the club chose because the supposed candidates were all gambles. The most experienced one out of the reported candidates was Valverde who had won a league title with Barcelona. But according to reports in Spain at the time, he only wanted the job on a full-time basis. And then when you factor in Kieran Mckenna, Carrick and Pert also leaving with little warning, then the job has become even more difficult for anyone coming in with games coming thick and fast.

Schäfer is not a real journalist, he's effectively a spokesperson for the RB clubs and by extension Ralf Rangnick. And he frequently gets criticized or made a meme of by his colleagues for it. One of the football magazines called him "more of a fan reporter than a chief reporter". Since it's obvious that he doesn't have any real inside contacts at United I can guarantee you that he's just "reporting" whatever Rangnick wants him to say. Which to no one's surprise is something positive.

Appointing someone who does long term work for a short term gig, when he neither has experience at that level or in that league and has to work with a squad that doesn't fit his style just doesn't make sense on any level and it's no surprise that it ended as badly as it did.
It's hard to imagine that going with Vibes FC by appointing some experienced man manager or letting Carrick continue after he got 7 points against Villarreal, Chelsea and Arsenal would have turned out any worse.

Why do people forget he was a manager for a full season in-between Hassenhutl leaving and Nagelsmann coming, in 2018-19? If you want to pedantic he also managed their season in the second division where he took them up.

I'm not sure it really helps Rangnick's case to point out he once finished second after his club had spent more than the entire rest of the competition combined for two years in a row.

 

[Adnan]

Schäfer is not a real journalist, he's effectively a spokesperson for the RB clubs and by extension Ralf Rangnick. And he frequently gets criticized or made a meme of by his colleagues for it. One of the football magazines called him "more of a fan reporter than a chief reporter". Since it's obvious that he doesn't have any real inside contacts at United I can guarantee you that he's just "reporting" whatever Rangnick wants him to say. Which to no one's surprise is something positive.

Appointing someone who does long term work for a short term gig, when he neither has experience at that level or in that league and has to work with a squad that doesn't fit his style just doesn't make sense on any level and it's no surprise that it ended as badly as it did.
It's hard to imagine that going with Vibes FC by appointing some experienced man manager or letting Carrick continue after he got 7 points against Villarreal, Chelsea and Arsenal would have turned out any worse.



I'm not sure it really helps Rangnick's case to point out he once finished second after his club had spent more than the entire rest of the competition combined for two years in a row.

Schafer being a real journalist isn't the point here. The point i'm making here is one you've just mentioned in your post about him basically being a mouthpiece for Rangnick. I could've quite easily have name dropped other journalists who reported similar to Schafer about ten Hag putting an end to the consultancy role. I absolutely don't believe he's got a source from within Man Utd, apart from when Rangnick was at the club.

He was appointed as the head coach for a short period of time. And that would've been the same for other candidates like Rudy Garcia, Daniel Fonseca etc who also would've needed time but there was no time, because such was the circumstances.

And hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I remember clearly how most fans couldn't wait to see the back of Michael Carrick and the rest of the coaching staff.

 

[AlexiV]

Well I was all for Rangnick because I believed the clubs PR about moving him upstairs afterwards, because there he could actually help the club. If the whole idea was to bring him in just to be an interim it was a incredibly stupid idea. He hasnt really managed for years and never in a club the size of United.

Moving upstairs or not, having Rangnick come in to finnish the season whilst top-4 was still on the table was just stupid.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The most experienced one out of the reported candidates was Valverde who had won a league title with Barcelona. But according to reports in Spain at the time, he only wanted the job on a full-time basis.

The manager only wanting the job on a full-time basis shouldn't be a problem. That's the case for almost all managers. Manchester United should have done the normal thing, which is to hire a manager on a full-time basis and fired him if they felt performance wasn't up to par.

 

[Adnan]

The manager only wanting the job on a full-time basis shouldn't be a problem. That's the case for almost all managers. Manchester United should have done the normal thing, which is to hire a manager on a full-time basis and fired him if they felt performance wasn't up to par.

It becomes a problem if said manager doesn't factor into the mid to long-term plan.

 

[do.ob]

Schafer being a real journalist isn't the point here. The point i'm making here is one you've just mentioned in your post about him basically being a mouthpiece for Rangnick. I could've quite easily have name dropped other journalists who reported similar to Schafer about ten Hag putting an end to the consultancy role. I absolutely don't believe he's got a source from within Man Utd, apart from when Rangnick was at the club.

He was appointed as the head coach for a short period of time. And that would've been the same for other candidates like Rudy Garcia, Daniel Fonseca etc who also would've needed time but there was no time, because such was the circumstances.

And hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I remember clearly how most fans couldn't wait to see the back of Michael Carrick and the rest of the coaching staff.

Well this is what one handsome and knowledgeable caf poster wrote before the appointment:

"If we ignore the innovative spirit that set him apart 20 years ago, but not anymore today, I think Rangnick is overrated as a coach. I mean what has he really done as a coach since he left Schalke almost 15 years ago: "

"Bringing up Rangnick is a bit random? He doesn't really have a big name as coach, he's done some decent work, but he's all about pressing and United just bought Ronaldo?! And for the last decade or so he's always worked as an authoritative figure with a young squad, he doesn't really have experience managing big egos and it since he appears to be quite stubborn that could be a recipe for disaster as well. "




And wasn't it Ten Hag himself, who said he's doing his own analysis and makes his own decisions when asked about Rangnick?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It becomes a problem if said manager doesn't factor into the mid to long-term plan.

My opinion is going to be biased from following a league that moves more quickly, but I just don't see the point of having long-term plans on the pitch. Off the pitch, sure, but on the pitch you need to react quickly to changing circumstances.

 

[Adnan]

Well this is what one handsome and knowledgeable caf poster wrote before the appointment:

"If we ignore the innovative spirit that set him apart 20 years ago, but not anymore today, I think Rangnick is overrated as a coach. I mean what has he really done as a coach since he left Schalke almost 15 years ago: "

"Bringing up Rangnick is a bit random? He doesn't really have a big name as coach, he's done some decent work, but he's all about pressing and United just bought Ronaldo?! And for the last decade or so he's always worked as an authoritative figure with a young squad, he doesn't really have experience managing big egos and it since he appears to be quite stubborn that could be a recipe for disaster as well. "




And wasn't it Ten Hag himself, who said he's doing his own analysis and makes his own decisions when asked about Rangnick?

The knowledgeable and handsome poster is absolutely correct about Rangnick being a outdated coach when it comes to implementing a proactive/ attacking play style for today's game. But that's in comparison to the likes of Guardiola, ten Hag, Klopp, Luis Enrique etc. But in comparison to the managers we've had post Ferguson, Rangnick wasn't out of date as far as attempting to implement a compact high block with counter pressing capabilities. And the alternatives were the likes of Rudy Garcia, Paulo Fonseca etc, according to reports.

Ronaldo is still here, so it'll be interesting to see what ten Hag does tactically against the ball, and it wouldn't surprise me if ten Hag creates a effective counter pressing strategy with Ronaldo in the team.

Yes, ten Hag did say that in his first press conference at the club. But that still wasn't good enough for some people who needed further validation.

 

[Zehner]

My opinion is going to be biased from following a league that moves more quickly, but I just don't see the point of having long-term plans on the pitch. Off the pitch, sure, but on the pitch you need to react quickly to changing circumstances.

Overemphasis on the short term is one of the things that brought United into this mess. Madrid might be a break of the norm but most of the top clubs out there do best when they implement an overarching idea of a playing system and prioritize this approach over short term success. And I also have the feel that Madrid has gathered a set of players who are so intelligent that they implement the system themselves in a way (see how they consulted Ancelotti during games). Not sure that's an alternative for every team out there. It definitely didn't work for United under Solskjaer who seemed to give lots of leerway to his players as well.

 

[stevoc]

It becomes a problem if said manager doesn't factor into the mid to long-term plan.

Surely for the Glazers and the Club the mid part of the mid to long-term plan would have been focused mostly on finishing 4th (its why Solskjaer was sacked after all). In which case they shouldn't have worried about having to sack someone else after 6 months.

 

[do.ob]

The knowledgeable and handsome poster is absolutely correct about Rangnick being a outdated coach when it comes to implementing a proactive/ attacking play style for today's game. But that's in comparison to the likes of Guardiola, ten Hag, Klopp, Luis Enrique etc. But in comparison to the managers we've had post Ferguson, Rangnick wasn't out of date as far as attempting to implement a compact high block with counter pressing capabilities. And the alternatives were the likes of Rudy Garcia, Paulo Fonseca etc, according to reports.

Ronaldo is still here, so it'll be interesting to see what ten Hag does tactically against the ball, and it wouldn't surprise me if ten Hag creates a effective counter pressing strategy with Ronaldo in the team.

Yes, ten Hag did say that in his first press conference at the club. But that still wasn't good enough for some people who needed further validation.

Overemphasis on the short term is one of the things that brought United into this mess. Madrid might be a break of the norm but most of the top clubs out there do best when they implement an overarching idea of a playing system and prioritize this approach over short term success. And I also have the feel that Madrid has gathered a set of players who are so intelligent that they implement the system themselves in a way (see how they consulted Ancelotti during games). Not sure that's an alternative for every team out there. It definitely didn't work for United under Solskjaer who seemed to give lots of leerway to his players as well.

But what is Rangnick's tactical legacy that made it all worth it?

And regarding both quoted posts:
Clearly United's alternative to Rangnick was Antonio Conte, especially since Solskjaer was very much in sacking territory after losing 0:5 to Liverpool during the time Spurs must have approached Conte.

For now the result is that Spurs finished top 4 and United didn't, despite having a worse starting position.

 

[giorno]

Overemphasis on the short term is one of the things that brought United into this mess. Madrid might be a break of the norm but most of the top clubs out there do best when they implement an overarching idea of a playing system and prioritize this approach over short term success. And I also have the feel that Madrid has gathered a set of players who are so intelligent that they implement the system themselves in a way (see how they consulted Ancelotti during games). Not sure that's an alternative for every team out there. It definitely didn't work for United under Solskjaer who seemed to give lots of leerway to his players as well.

This is insane. You can't plan for the long term in football. You hope for it, but you plan for short term success. It can't be any other way

 

[Adnan]

Surely for the Glazers and the Club the mid part of the mid to long-term plan would have been focused mostly on finishing 4th (its why Solskjaer was sacked after all). In which case they shouldn't have worried about having to sack someone else after 6 months.

The way I see it is that if our plan revolves around making top 4, then we'll repeat the mistakes of the past where we've selected managers based on their CV/resume/experience, rather than a vision on how we want to play the game.

And with Erik ten Hag there's genuine hope we can potentially see that vision come to fruition with a bit of patience. And I think this is how we'll make better use of our funds, which will hopefully lead to us being champions league proof under him, at the very least.

 

[Adnan]

But what is Rangnick's tactical legacy that made it all worth it?

And regarding both quoted posts:
Clearly United's alternative to Rangnick was Antonio Conte, especially since Solskjaer was very much in sacking territory after losing 0:5 to Liverpool during the time Spurs must have approached Conte.

For now the result is that Spurs finished top 4 and United didn't, despite having a worse starting position.

I don't believe one chooses a placeholder to create a tactical legacy. That job will fall on the shoulders of Erik ten Hag who is the one selected for the mid to long-term.

Conte was never our alternative to Solskjaer according to reports. And we quite clearly wanted Erik ten Hag who coaches a brand of football that is dominant and proactive by nature.

If you have a vision on how you want your team to play in a dominant manner, then i'm sure you'll agree, that ten Hag is the obvious choice over Antonio Conte.

 

[Zehner]

But what is Rangnick's tactical legacy that made it all worth it?

And regarding both quoted posts:
Clearly United's alternative to Rangnick was Antonio Conte, especially since Solskjaer was very much in sacking territory after losing 0:5 to Liverpool during the time Spurs must have approached Conte.

For now the result is that Spurs finished top 4 and United didn't, despite having a worse starting position.

Conte is obviously a better coach than Rangnick but I don't think he would have been the right appointment. Conte won't elevate a team to Liverpool or City heights, probably not even on Chelsea's level under Tuchel. And that's what United aspires to be (again). It's the first time ever that I feel United is following an overarching idea over two consecutive manager appointments. They clearly made the decision that they have to adapt to the sophisticated pressing and positional play that made the current elite so successful in the past decade. That they passed on Conte is actually a positive sign for me because for once they stuck to the plan and clearly prioritized it over short term success.

And let's be real, one season without CL football really doesn't mean much for United anyway.

 

[Oranges038]

I said he'd need at least 18 wins out of 24 to make top four. It would have actually taken 15. There were several games where those 5 extra wins could have been picked up, but it was a case of bad management, bad tactics and players who just aren't up to it.

The whole thing was a giant waste of time and having him continue would have been pointless. It was a failure. His record was bad, there's no defending him or any of the players after that 6 months.

His league record.

Matches	24
Wins	10
Draws	7
Losses	7
Goals For	33
Goals Against	33

Better to just forget it ever happened and move on.

 

[Zehner]

This is insane. You can't plan for the long term in football. You hope for it, but you plan for short term success. It can't be any other way

Disagree. City and Liverpool are prime examples of long term planning. Bayern as well.

 

[giorno]

Disagree. City and Liverpool are prime examples of long term planning. Bayern as well.

They look like examples of long term planning because they were successful in the short term

 

[do.ob]

I don't believe one chooses a placeholder to create a tactical legacy. That job will fall on the shoulders of Erik ten Hag who is the one selected for the mid to long-term.

Conte was never our alternative to Solskjaer according to reports. And we quite clearly wanted Erik ten Hag who coaches a brand of football that is dominant and proactive by nature.

If you have a vision on how you want your team to play in a dominant manner, then i'm sure you'll agree, that ten Hag is the obvious choice over Antonio Conte.

If Rangnick doesn't leave anything behind that makes his appointment even more pointless, doesn't it?

And Rome wasn't build in a day if you are a mess and then hire a very idealistic coach to sort it out while trying to play ambitious footba that also increases the risk of the whole thing backfiring significantly. If Ten Hag is successful then fair enough, the management can claim credit for their long term vision, but if he doesn't they will have to ask themselves whether they wanted too much too soon.

 

[Isotope]

United badly need changes, and there will be bumpy roads ahead with wrong appointments. But appointment of RR and then ETH shows the mindset of Murtough of dare to take chances, instead of going with the "safe" choices (like Pochettino).