Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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#07

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What are you even saying? What’s the point of having a manager at all if you think it’s that simple?
There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)

By and large coaches improve players by degrees. If you put Pep in charge of the dog and duck they wouldn't play like City, cos City has much better players. Coaches are important, of course. However, by and large, teams reflect the quality of their parts. Its very rare that you get a coach like Sir Alex who can consistently elevate pretty average players.

The group we have should be able to sort itself out. For example, is it down to poor coaching that United managed to waste tons of chances and draw with Watford at home? There's always someone else to blame with this group. They've gotten used to hiding behind excuses. Roy Keane took their measure when he called them bluffers. If the players were as 'big' as their egos they could've easily qualified for next year's Champions League.

For crying out loud we've heard them whining about having nothing to play for for months, even though going into the Leicester game they still had a good chance at top four. Honestly, who's fault is it that they have nothing to play for? Did Ralf tell Bruno to miss an open goal against Middlesborough in the FA Cup or to miss a penalty against Arsenal when we were on top at the Emirates?

All we hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. A great manager can get more out of good players. However, good players should produce a consistently good level on their own. Hence the Chelsea 2008 example. If you have a dressing room that maintains high standards it doesn't fall apart as fast as we have this season. That shows you where the real problem is.

Don't be surprised if there are briefings against Ten Hag in a few months time.
 

pratyush_utd

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These players have done feck all with or without this coaching setup. Only delusional people will read that article and agree with that. I cant wait for season to be over so that i never have to see some of the players who are playing for us right now
 

Zen86

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What are you even saying? What’s the point of having a manager at all if you think it’s that simple?
Last season on the caf, players were mere pawns and were only as good as the manager and his system. Misplaced pass? Bad coaching. Defensive error? Bad coaching. This season, the players should be training themselves and sorting their own tactics :rolleyes:
 

#07

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Last season on the caf, players were mere pawns and were only as good as the manager and his system. Misplaced pass? Bad coaching. Defensive error? Bad coaching. This season, the players should be training themselves and sorting their own tactics :rolleyes:
Ole was betrayed by these players. He should've thrown them under the bus in his exit interview but protected them even then.

Days later there were briefings about how he hadn't done enough to coach them, certain players had stagnated cos they went to Ole for more advice and he didn't give it to them.

People should never forget that. A club legend got stabbed in the back by players he consistently defended.

If they can do it to him they'll do it to anyone. Nobody should be surprised by the stream of anti-Ralf s-t we've had to put up with since he made them drive home in the dark from training.

They'll do the same to Ten Hag. Protecting them, being their mate, as Ole tried, it gets you nothing. This group is uncontrollable and needs to be ripped up.

Like I said, Ralf's failed as a coach but I'm glad he's taken away some of their hiding places. Although I won't be shocked if Lawrie Whitwell and others are telling me Ten Hag looks overwhelmed by the size of United by September, and sources close to the dressing room are saying he's got no experience of managing such big players and can't get his message across.

Its a classic boom and bust cycle and will remain so as long as we keep the bulk of our playing staff the same.
 

Tavern in the town

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There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)

By and large coaches improve players by degrees. If you put Pep in charge of the dog and duck they wouldn't play like City, cos City has much better players. Coaches are important, of course. However, by and large, teams reflect the quality of their parts. Its very rare that you get a coach like Sir Alex who can consistently elevate pretty average players.

The group we have should be able to sort itself out. For example, is it down to poor coaching that United managed to waste tons of chances and draw with Watford at home? There's always someone else to blame with this group. They've gotten used to hiding behind excuses. Roy Keane took their measure when he called them bluffers. If the players were as 'big' as their egos they could've easily qualified for next year's Champions League.

For crying out loud we've heard them whining about having nothing to play for for months, even though going into the Leicester game they still had a good chance at top four. Honestly, who's fault is it that they have nothing to play for? Did Ralf tell Bruno to miss an open goal against Middlesborough in the FA Cup or to miss a penalty against Arsenal when we were on top at the Emirates?

All we hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. A great manager can get more out of good players. However, good players should produce a consistently good level on their own. Hence the Chelsea 2008 example. If you have a dressing room that maintains high standards it doesn't fall apart as fast as we have this season. That shows you where the real problem is.

Don't be surprised if there are briefings against Ten Hag in a few months time.
I’m with you in that there’s obviously a correlation between wages and success, not sure if you’ve read Soccernomics but they went into it in some detail. Nevertheless the reason that’s the case is usually because the best players are usually paid the most money. Our situation is quite unique in the fact that we’re so poorly run we’ve given out top dollar contracts to shite players, so of course we’re bucking the trend. There’s also the fact that football is a lot more tactical these days which makes a self managing squad almost impossible as I’ve posted below.

That isn’t a comparable situation at all. That was 2008. Football since then has become much more sophisticated tactically speaking. Players can’t simply be left to it because they need to be taught a coordinated press, as well as having a build up structure that lets them play through a press and repeatable methods of chance creation.
 

afrocentricity

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Can't believe some are still tying themselves in knots trying to explain why the manager is faultless in what has happened...
 

#07

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I’m with you in that there’s obviously a correlation between wages and success, not sure if you’ve read Soccernomics but they went into it in some detail. Nevertheless the reason that’s the case is usually because the best players are usually paid the most money. Our situation is quite unique in the fact that we’re so poorly run we’ve given out top dollar contracts to shite players, so of course we’re bucking the trend. There’s also the fact that football is a lot more tactical these days which makes a self managing squad almost impossible as I’ve posted below.
It depends to some extent on what style of football you are trying to play. Of course, if the aim is to press or your style is heavily reliant on positional play, you need to be coached.

However, Ralf abandoned high pressing after a month. For the most part we have retreated into something much simpler. Whitwell's piece even acknowledged Ralf has significantly simplified instructions. Yet they still can't execute?

The excuses don't wash. When you see defenders air shotting footballs or players missing 1v1s, you can't just retreat into blaming the coach. It's too convenient and too easy, which is what this squad seems to want: The easy life.
 

Long Time Red

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Just because you don't like the report doesn't mean its not true. From what I'm seeing on the pitch the sessions really must be disastrous.

Some of you are happy to hear the 'truth' about the players and them getting blasted in public and in dossiers but don't want the same for the coaches and RR.

There are probably 50 people within close proximity of our training sessions or close enough to the squad to get a feel of the atmosphere. There is no dressing room that is kept completely airtight, especially when a team isn't performing well. This could happen in any team as all you need is just one person to leak a story.
Yep, all the pessimists will be looking like complete clowns next season when the players actually get some proper coaching.

It's fairly obvious the standard of training from Rangnick is awful but doing zero tactical prep for Brighton is even worse than I thought it was.
 

VidaRed

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Rangnick could chain all the players and piss on them for all i care.

The players have cried wolf too many times for my liking, they either need to be eaten by the wolf (rangnick) or kicked out of the club.
 

Zen86

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Rangnick could chain all the players and piss on them for all i care.

The players have cried wolf too many times for my liking, they either need to be eaten by the wolf (rangnick) or kicked out of the club.
Eaten by the wolf? :lol:

This is a guy who goes crying off to the media instead of dropping the offenders from the team.
 

VidaRed

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Eaten by the wolf? :lol:

This is a guy who goes crying off to the media instead of dropping the offenders from the team.
He can't drop them, because they're the backup he's playing after dropping the first lot, there's a reason why mata, matic, dalot, telles, lindelof, elanga are playing instead of shaw, maguire, awb, rashford :lol:

And he doesn't want to jeopardize the future of the kids by throwing them into shark infested waters.

The squad needs gutting inside out.
 

Leftback99

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There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)

By and large coaches improve players by degrees. If you put Pep in charge of the dog and duck they wouldn't play like City, cos City has much better players. Coaches are important, of course. However, by and large, teams reflect the quality of their parts. Its very rare that you get a coach like Sir Alex who can consistently elevate pretty average players.

The group we have should be able to sort itself out. For example, is it down to poor coaching that United managed to waste tons of chances and draw with Watford at home? There's always someone else to blame with this group. They've gotten used to hiding behind excuses. Roy Keane took their measure when he called them bluffers. If the players were as 'big' as their egos they could've easily qualified for next year's Champions League.

For crying out loud we've heard them whining about having nothing to play for for months, even though going into the Leicester game they still had a good chance at top four. Honestly, who's fault is it that they have nothing to play for? Did Ralf tell Bruno to miss an open goal against Middlesborough in the FA Cup or to miss a penalty against Arsenal when we were on top at the Emirates?

All we hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. A great manager can get more out of good players. However, good players should produce a consistently good level on their own. Hence the Chelsea 2008 example. If you have a dressing room that maintains high standards it doesn't fall apart as fast as we have this season. That shows you where the real problem is.

Don't be surprised if there are briefings against Ten Hag in a few months time.
It must be the most overpaid squad relative to quality in football history. The fact is for all their excuses the majority of this squad is nowhere near as good as they think and there is no strong core to maintain the standards.

It will be no different under Ten Hag unless there are a number of signings who have a significant impact on the quality and mentality of the squad.
 

Tavern in the town

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It depends to some extent on what style of football you are trying to play. Of course, if the aim is to press or your style is heavily reliant on positional play, you need to be coached.

However, Ralf abandoned high pressing after a month. For the most part we have retreated into something much simpler. Whitwell's piece even acknowledged Ralf has significantly simplified instructions. Yet they still can't execute?

The excuses don't wash. When you see defenders air shotting footballs or players missing 1v1s, you can't just retreat into blaming the coach. It's too convenient and too easy, which is what this squad seems to want: The easy life.
That’s the style of football winning teams have to play though. Of course you can have some variation in the way you do it - City and Liverpool play differently yet the general principles are the same. You need to press, you need to be able to play through a press and you need repeatable methods of creating chances.
 

afrocentricity

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It will be no different under Ten Hag unless there are a number of signings who have a significant impact on the quality and mentality of the squad.
Good thing that's his bread and butter then!
 

Random Task

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Eaten by the wolf? :lol:

This is a guy who goes crying off to the media instead of dropping the offenders from the team.
It's not as simple as dropping the main offenders from the first team when the replacements are equally poor, if not worse.

He's been trying to tell us for months that the squad is not good enough to compete. It's in such a state that it needs a minimum of 10 new players.
 

Zen86

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It's not as simple as dropping the main offenders from the first team when the replacements are equally poor, if not worse.

He's been trying to tell us for months that the squad is not good enough to compete. It's in such a state that it needs a minimum of 10 new players.
He’s been telling us the players aren’t good enough, the players aren’t listening to him, everything is rubbish and not his fault etc etc. he’s been particularly good at that part of the job, and awful in every other department.
 

stevoc

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He can't drop them, because they're the backup he's playing after dropping the first lot, there's a reason why mata, matic, dalot, telles, lindelof, elanga are playing instead of shaw, maguire, awb, rashford :lol:

And he doesn't want to jeopardize the future of the kids by throwing them into shark infested waters.
So he couldn't get a tune out of the first lot, he can't get a tune out of the second lot and has ran out of players is what you're saying?

The squad needs gutting inside out.
To actually do this would mean accepting 8th-14th place finished for 3-5 years. There's no way the club can afford to buy a brand new squad of the required quality to challenge at the top in 1 or 2 windows. You can't replace an entire squad in less than 4-5 years.

The alternative (and what will happen) of course is let's see what a decent manager can do with this squad
 

Woziak

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Ralph , biggest fraud in football, he got one thing right , the club needs 10 new players but a club of united size should never be appointing a guy who hasn’t managed for 4 or 5 years, he had no track record of wining anything considerable and his only worthwhile achievement was a Champions League Semi Final where Sir Alex beat his team 7-1 on aggregate. If he was as good as he thought, he would have gained momentum early on, it’s clear these players whilst not good enough where able to beat Spurs twice and Arsenal once, two results under him in other words they got up for big games but the dismal 7 defeats 11 victories and 10 draws from 28 games under his tenure with a 39% win rate and Average goal scored of 1.28 and 1.25 goals conceded, should mean he’s the worst United Manager this century by a large margin. He won 9 out of 23 PL games, drew 8 and lost 6 this is just unacceptable! His team never scored more than 4 goals and that was against Leeds, need we say any more !

The United board should have given Conte the opportunity on an interim, even though his ego may not of allowed that or a short term 2 year contract I’d go as far as to say we would have been in third place by now even with this s….fest of a squad. I mean he’s average nearly 2 goals scored and 1.04 conceded in his 34 game tenure at Spurs and he has a 55% win rate So take 23 games with a win rate of 55% Which is 13 victories or 12 points more, Conte would not have drawn at home to Watford, Burnley, Newcastle, the list is endless but 58+12 is 70points and roughly where the squad finished the year before because they work hard one year then want the second year off believing they are some kind of Elite Squad!
it’s now over to you ETH but major changes are required?
 

Iker Quesadillas

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That isn’t a comparable situation at all. That was 2008. Football since then has become much more sophisticated tactically speaking. Players can’t simply be left to it because they need to be taught a coordinated press, as well as having a build up structure that lets them play through a press and repeatable methods of chance creation.
Real Madrid won the league and are in the final of the Champions League and I'm pretty sure Ancelotti isn't teaching them sophisticated coordinated pressing.

It's just football. It's really not that complicated.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)
There is relationship between the quality of a squad and the performance of the team, and wages can be used as an imperfect proxy for 'quality of player.'
 

mu4c_20le

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To be fair, isn't this what most of us observed that day? Dalot looked completely lost, and most of the players looked like they were asked to train the new formation about 24 hours ago. Rangnick seems to be making it up along the way.
 

Random Task

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To be fair, isn't this what most of us observed that day? Dalot looked completely lost, and most of the players looked like they were asked to train the new formation about 24 hours ago. Rangnick seems to be making it up along the way.
Is KemdrickLanar a reputable source of info or a random guy with a Twitter account? I only ask because I've never heard of him before now.
 

mu4c_20le

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Is KemdrickLanar a reputable source of info or a random guy with a Twitter account? I only ask because I've never heard of him before now.
Not sure but the excerpt is from the Athletic article, written by Laurie Whitwell. If you want, I can verify if it's real for you.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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It's from the Athletic story.

Other people like Michael Cox have mentioned that Rangnick has been lazy and/or hasn't dedicated much time to actually managing the team so there might be truth to it.

It makes sense, because the alternative is that the players have openly mutinied and refused to do what he says but he's just stayed at the job instead of quitting or doing anything.
 

Ted Lasso

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To be fair, isn't this what most of us observed that day? Dalot looked completely lost, and most of the players looked like they were asked to train the new formation about 24 hours ago. Rangnick seems to be making it up along the way.


To be fair, isn't this what most of us observed that day? Dalot looked completely lost, and most of the players looked like they were asked to train the new formation about 24 hours ago. Rangnick seems to be making it up along the way.
Can't help laughing at this leak thinking about how De Bruyne boasted about doing zero training sessions around United before City destroyed us.

I have a feeling Rangnik expected the players to be a bit less thick amongst other things
 

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He has no upstairs role as many claimed here. It’s a consulting work, part time, given to him to get him as interim manager because he doesn’t want to seek a new job after six months.
This place is full of people with distortion of reality.
You don't think he has any contacts outside of United? Ralfs primary experience is setting up a structure inside a club that works. How many on our staff can say the same? He's probably got a portfolio of players yet to be discovered. If the club don't want to use that experience then that's on them. It's getting tedious continually listening to people moan about how they can't wait for him to leave the club when the reality is he could be very beneficial in helping us get back to the top. Agenda driven drivel for the most part.
 

Tavern in the town

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Real Madrid won the league and are in the final of the Champions League and I'm pretty sure Ancelotti isn't teaching them sophisticated coordinated pressing.

It's just football. It's really not that complicated.
Probably why they were so easy to play through vs all of PSG, Chelsea and City. Ancelotti was teetering on the edge of the sack for months, a few moments of madness in each of those ties doesn’t make him a better manager. Cup competitions are fraught with variance.
 

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You don't think he has any contacts outside of United? Ralfs primary experience is setting up a structure inside a club that works. How many on our staff can say the same? He's probably got a portfolio of players yet to be discovered. If the club don't want to use that experience then that's on them. It's getting tedious continually listening to people moan about how they can't wait for him to leave the club when the reality is he could be very beneficial in helping us get back to the top. Agenda driven drivel for the most part.
I don’t know what you are arguing for. Are you suggesting he will be appointed as a director in the club? Or, you just want the club do so?
 

TwoSheds

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You don't think he has any contacts outside of United? Ralfs primary experience is setting up a structure inside a club that works. How many on our staff can say the same? He's probably got a portfolio of players yet to be discovered. If the club don't want to use that experience then that's on them. It's getting tedious continually listening to people moan about how they can't wait for him to leave the club when the reality is he could be very beneficial in helping us get back to the top. Agenda driven drivel for the most part.
I can't wait for him to not be manager any more. Don't care about whether he's a consultant or not as I don't know what he'd be doing or whether he'd be listened to. It won't be down to him whether we do well or not next year I shouldn't think. It was definitely partly down to him how appallingly we've done this year.
 

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Probably why they were so easy to play through vs all of PSG, Chelsea and City. Ancelotti was teetering on the edge of the sack for months, a few moments of madness in each of those ties doesn’t make him a better manager. Cup competitions are fraught with variance.
He's developed their young talent to another level and has had Benzema turn into the best player in the world under him...

It's very much not coincidental or luck. Ancelotti is one of the best talent/ceiling raisers in football history.

Even had DCL looking like a world beater during his time at Everton.
 

Forevergiggs1

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I don’t know what you are arguing for. Are you suggesting he will be appointed as a director in the club? Or, you just want the club do so?
Of course I'm not suggesting he will be appointed as a director although I wouldn't be against the idea but people that can't see the benefits he could bring to the club are dismissing him outright even though he has the CV to back it up while they had no problem with the club for giving jobs for the boys.

Yes Ralf will have a limited role but that doesn't mean he should be ignored completely. If he had a small hand in bringng in ETH or had a small hand in the restructuring of the club or a small hand in finally getting the blueprint of the last 3 years ripped up or had a small hand in letting every man and his dog know the extent of bringing in a new squad then his time with us would be worth it.
 

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There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)

By and large coaches improve players by degrees. If you put Pep in charge of the dog and duck they wouldn't play like City, cos City has much better players. Coaches are important, of course. However, by and large, teams reflect the quality of their parts. Its very rare that you get a coach like Sir Alex who can consistently elevate pretty average players.

The group we have should be able to sort itself out. For example, is it down to poor coaching that United managed to waste tons of chances and draw with Watford at home? There's always someone else to blame with this group. They've gotten used to hiding behind excuses. Roy Keane took their measure when he called them bluffers. If the players were as 'big' as their egos they could've easily qualified for next year's Champions League.

For crying out loud we've heard them whining about having nothing to play for for months, even though going into the Leicester game they still had a good chance at top four. Honestly, who's fault is it that they have nothing to play for? Did Ralf tell Bruno to miss an open goal against Middlesborough in the FA Cup or to miss a penalty against Arsenal when we were on top at the Emirates?

All we hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. A great manager can get more out of good players. However, good players should produce a consistently good level on their own. Hence the Chelsea 2008 example. If you have a dressing room that maintains high standards it doesn't fall apart as fast as we have this season. That shows you where the real problem is.

Don't be surprised if there are briefings against Ten Hag in a few months time.
This 100% “the player’s fault” OR 100% “the manager’s (Ralf) fault has got to stop.

There is no doubt that the worst performance by Man Utd since 1989-90 in the league is due to multiple factors.

The players: lack of leadership, character, effort. A fragmented squad with many leaving.

Ralf and coaching team: poor match preparation, naive tactics, poor man management, and too many days off, a lack of character and experience to turn it around. The 1 day of prep with a back 3 before the Liverpool game is utterly stupid and naive.

Management: lack of leadership with the owners more concerned with their yearly dividend than building United into a pan-generational super club that we could potentially become.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Ralf’s been our worst manager by win % since 1972. The poor recruitment overpaying for substandard and/or uninterested talent by management is a big factor (DvB, Fred, Maguire, Pogba, Martial etc.). Players that have performed for us in the past and aren’t now (Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Shaw, etc.). Finally, a lack of effort / poor performances by new additions (Sancho, Varane).

I just don’t see how a rational human being can look at the shitshow we have now and say it’s just one thing, “the players” or “the manager”.
 

DSG

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There's a statistical relationship between wages and performance in football (ironically United are the exception to that!)

By and large coaches improve players by degrees. If you put Pep in charge of the dog and duck they wouldn't play like City, cos City has much better players. Coaches are important, of course. However, by and large, teams reflect the quality of their parts. Its very rare that you get a coach like Sir Alex who can consistently elevate pretty average players.

The group we have should be able to sort itself out. For example, is it down to poor coaching that United managed to waste tons of chances and draw with Watford at home? There's always someone else to blame with this group. They've gotten used to hiding behind excuses. Roy Keane took their measure when he called them bluffers. If the players were as 'big' as their egos they could've easily qualified for next year's Champions League.

For crying out loud we've heard them whining about having nothing to play for for months, even though going into the Leicester game they still had a good chance at top four. Honestly, who's fault is it that they have nothing to play for? Did Ralf tell Bruno to miss an open goal against Middlesborough in the FA Cup or to miss a penalty against Arsenal when we were on top at the Emirates?

All we hear is excuses, excuses, excuses. A great manager can get more out of good players. However, good players should produce a consistently good level on their own. Hence the Chelsea 2008 example. If you have a dressing room that maintains high standards it doesn't fall apart as fast as we have this season. That shows you where the real problem is.

Don't be surprised if there are briefings against Ten Hag in a few months time.
I should add, and forgive me if I’m going too deep here, that there is a lot of noise in that analysis.

‘Of course there is a statistical relationship between wages and results. I assume by “performance” you actually mean results because performance is subjective and qualitative whereas results are quantifiable.

But in assigning this statistical relationship, you need to be careful. It DOES NOT indicate causality. If that was the case, then you’d bring in a bunch of random players, even League One level, pay them a ton of money, and win everything. Paying high wages does not guarantee results.

The correlation between high wages and results is a reflection of the market pyramid of football. Money means better facilities, better scouting, better managers, better coaches, better players, etc. Unless you are Manchester United (ha!).

If anything, when you look at the super clubs in Europe, those with the most money win most consistently. But that is due to the efficiency in which talent is allocated, not a causal effect. If there was a salary cap, organization wide, across football in Europe, we’d see much more random results.
 
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