Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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stevoc

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It was obvious that he couldn't make it work with those players and as an interim manager. At that point we wrote off the season. Had we sacked him we would have looked like clowns who gave in to player power and ETH wouldn't have come. Showing that we were serious about reform was and is the priority.
Yeah we obviously wouldn't have wrote the season off after a few wins just because an Interim manager couldn't implement a new style, that makes no sense mate.

It was clear even when he took over that changing style mid-season would be very difficult as I think Ralf said himself in his first press conference so it's unlikely he was brought in solely to do that.

It's obvious he was brought in primarily in the hope that he could pull the team together, right the ship and get the season back on track. It just hasn't worked out.
 

glazed

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Yeah we obviously wouldn't have wrote the season off after a few wins just because an Interim manager couldn't implement a new style, that makes no sense mate.
Yeah but by your logic they would have got rid of him after 4 games when the players refused to/couldn't press. You need to explain why they kept him in post and why he stayed. My answer is that their agenda was next season and landing Ten Hag, while this one was written off. What's yours?
 

Greck

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Think it's normal they'll exchange some insight from Ralf's time here. ETH isn't starting work early just to ignore the one person closest to everything. Too bad for all the slackers who were hoping for a fresh start. Ralf sucked as an interim but our bunch were already difficult from day 1 complaining about extra work. All the things ETH is known for. He can at least know he isn't the problem when they inevitably run crying to the press about his methods.
 

stevoc

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Yeah but by your logic they would have got rid of him after 4 games when the players refused to/couldn't press. You need to explain why they kept him in post and why he stayed. My answer is that their agenda was next season and landing Ten Hag, while this one was written off. What's yours?
See I didn't say that at all mate. What I did say is hypothetically with regards to your theory if Ralf agreed to come in with the specific mission to get this team to switch to a high pressing style (mid-season) he likely wouldn't have abandoned it after a few games and/or if he thought it was impossible to implement it he probably would have held his hands up and informed the board that he for whatever reason couldn't achieve the the very thing they brought him into do.

Now obviously the latter didn't happen yet the former did as the ultra high pressing was abandoned pretty quickly and Ralf and the club didn't seem too fussed about that. Which would point towards Ralf never being brought in to specifically implement a pressing style regardless of results.
 

glazed

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See I didn't say that at all mate. What I did say is hypothetically with regards to your theory if Ralf agreed to come in with the specific mission to get this team to switch to a high pressing style (mid-season) he likely wouldn't have abandoned it after a few games and/or if he thought it was impossible to implement it he probably would have held his hands up and informed the board that he for whatever reason couldn't achieve the the very thing they brought him into do.

Now obviously the latter didn't happen yet the former did as the ultra high pressing was abandoned pretty quickly and Ralf and the club didn't seem too fussed about that. Which would point towards Ralf never being brought in to specifically implement a pressing style regardless of results.
Well he tried and he failed. So the next step was to analyse why it wasn't working. The obvious answer (which we already knew) was we have the wrong players. So we are going to get some new ones and a better stronger coach. I don't see why this is complicated. We watched this happen. If Ralf had been forced out by player power then the chances of Ten Hag coming would have gone to zero in a flash. Surely that's obvious?

Ralf's job wasn't to complete the switch to high press. It was to start it. This is going to take a couple of years minimum.
 

stevoc

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Well he tried and he failed. So the next step was to analyse why it wasn't working. The obvious answer (which we already knew) was we have the wrong players. So we are going to get some new ones and a better stronger coach. I don't see why this is complicated. We watched this happen. If Ralf had been forced out by player power then the chances of Ten Hag coming would have gone to zero in a flash. Surely that's obvious?
We all watched it but not all of us seen a guy who was hired specifically to implement a high pressing style.

Do you think Ralf thought before taking this job thought he could get this team playing his high pressing style mid-season?

Ralf's job wasn't to complete the switch to high press. It was to start it. This is going to take a couple of years minimum.
And when will he start that exactly?

And yeah it likely will take years so there was little benefit to having a retired interim manager try to implement it mid-season when CL football for next season was at stake. Now that we won't be in the CL Ten Hag's job in building his own team is now that much harder with less money available to him and no CL football to offer prospective new singings
 

glazed

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We all watched it but not all of us seen a guy who was hired specifically to implement a high pressing style.
Well that's what I see. I mean he's the Godfather of Gegenpress. Why else would you hire him?

Yes it's painful. Yes it will take time. You need to stop whining about missing top four and see the bigger picture. We blame Woodward and the Glazers for not getting football, but this time the club is doing the right thing.
 

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Anyone bashing rangnick over the players will also bash ten hag next season.

Mark thy words.
Oh shit. I fecking dare you to defend Ralf’s tactics. He’s been an abomination as a tactical manager. Yes, the players deserve criticism, but fecking Dalot on the left vs Liverpool? He’s been the worst manager for us since 1972 — 50 years mate — I get the vitriol directed towards the players, but Ralf’s been objectively abysmal.
 
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DSG

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As I said you are missing the point. It's not about bad apples, it's about who can play in a high press system. Ralf won't be telling you and me, he will be telling ETH. So I can't provide a list except one of my own opinion which is mostly worthless in this context. We will just have to see what happens and who disappears from view.
I don’t think this is about who can play in a high press system, mate, it’s 70% communication to the current players HOW to play the high press in the way you want them to, and 30% on the players to perform. Most of these players have worked within a high press, at least the front 3. We were “hunting” under Mourinho. I do agree that personnel wise we have challenges (Maguire) but both Shaw and AWB can play a high press style.

I believe ETH will look at Ralf’s coaching and tactical structure and be appalled… I really don’t think he’ll take much from it tbf
 

DSG

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Well that's what I see. I mean he's the Godfather of Gegenpress. Why else would you hire him?

Yes it's painful. Yes it will take time. You need to stop whining about missing top four and see the bigger picture. We blame Woodward and the Glazers for not getting football, but this time the club is doing the right thing.
He’s really not. Saatchi and Michels were implementing a high press literally decades before Ralf. The only thing Ralf did was a few training innovations and a 4-2-2-2, which doesn’t really work in the EPL, La Liga and higher levels of football.
 

glazed

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I don’t think this is about who can play in a high press system, mate, it’s 70% communication to the current players HOW to play the high press in the way you want them to, and 30% on the players to perform. Most of these players have worked within a high press, at least the front 3. We were “hunting” under Mourinho. I do agree that personnel wise we have challenges (Maguire) but both Shaw and AWB can play a high press style.
Time will tell. I personally doubt AWB, DdG, Ronaldo, Maguire and a few others will ever fit a modern high press system, But I might be wrong.

He’s really not. Saatchi and Michels were implementing a high press literally decades before Ralf. The only thing Ralf did was a few training innovations and a 4-2-2-2, which doesn’t really work in the EPL, La Liga and higher levels of football.
He may not be but that's his only reputation and why else would he even be here? You're fighting the blatantly obvious. The club has made a long term strategic decision to go high press. And the reason - in case you still don't see this - is that with Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal all playing that way (and Spurs playing better than us too plus Newcastle incoming), the long term path to top four is blocked unless we do the same. Which means we do this or the Glazer business model is fekked along with the share price. Do you get it now?
 
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DSG

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Time will tell. I personally doubt AWB, DdG, Ronaldo, Maguire and a few others will ever fit a modern high press system, But I might be wrong.



He may not be but that's his only reputation and why else would he even be here? You're fighting the blatantly obvious. The club has made a long term strategic decision to go high press. And the reason - in case you still don't see this - is that with Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal all playing that way (and Spurs playing better than us too plus Newcastle incoming), the long term path to top four is blocked unless we do the same. Which means we do this or the Glazer business model is fekked along with the share price. Do you get it now?
I guess I don’t “get it.”

I think you are misunderstanding the “high press.” The high press is just a system, and actually, it’s a part of a system. Pep and City use a very quick and dirty high press, but actually look to attack by 3v2s and 2v1s, usually during the build up and are still very tiki taka. They use one player to commit a tactical foul to stop play and reset the defense. Klopp is closest to a true gegenpress, they commit large numbers forward, but after the press is broken they really move into a conservative defensive shape. Chelsea doesn’t play much high press, particularly against top sides, they are actually quite conservative.

Install a high press = Champions League football isn’t really a thing. If that was the case, Southampton would be top 4, but they regularly lose 5-0.

Since the so called “high press” was “invented” in the early 2000’s (ignoring Saatchi and Michels and the guy that invented it before them who no one remembers), we’ve had one team that has won the CL with the gegenpress… Liverpool. In the meantime, Real has won it 4 times, mostly with counter attacking teams, and then you have Chelsea, Milan, United, Porto, Inter, all pretty much counter attacking. Bayern and Barcelona were possession centric, and they won 5 CL titles in the last 20 years.

The Glazers don’t know what the feck they are doing, so I highly doubt that a system of football somehow relates in their mind to revenues and share price.

I don’t disagree with you that the gegenpress is a effective tactical setup when implemented correctly with the right players. But it’s not the only or “best” setup, there are others that work equally well or even better, especially if we judge by CL titles.

I think the decision to appoint Ralf was a couple of things, mostly we dithered in sacking Ole and therefore lost out on Conte, we had few options, and finally it was the influence of Arnold and Murtagh that got the deal through. I think by January/Feb they regretted the decision. If you think this was a grand design by the club, a long term strategy, I think you are probably wrong. There is no indication that this club thinks years ahead. I believe the furthest they can look forward is basically how far Joel and Avram Glazer can look past their own navels, which isn’t very far.
 

Samid

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Translation: "Unfortunately, although we had a piss easy fixture list in first 3 or 4 months, we could not keep that permanently. That's why I'm absolutely disappointed."
 

hasanejaz88

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Mitten is pretty much hinting at what i've been claiming for a long time, Ralf is blowing smoke up his arse and his stint is considered an overall disaster.
So Ralf has been lying this whole time in the media and no one in the club has told him to stop, and haven't revoked his consultancy role? Sounds about right.
 

United Irishman

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I like Mitten, he definitely has sources in the club and obviously loves the club. His closeness to the situation sometimes curtails his ability to show critical thinking. He is determined to get the message out that Ralf has been a disaster and has had no meaningful input on long term strategy. I have no doubt he has been told this by a good source. His next question needs to be, “why???”

If it’s true that Ralf has no say or little say in what happens next, It’s maybe the biggest feck up yet. If United wanted purely an interim, then most people on this forum could have come up with 10 better candidates than Ralf.

I’ve also heard Mitten hint that it was Ralf’s failure as manager that has influenced the club’s faith in listening to his ideas about how they move forward. That is totally bonkers logic. It’s like not listening to a plumber’s advice on the leak you have because he didn’t do a good job when you asked him to wire the house.
 

stevoc

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Well that's what I see. I mean he's the Godfather of Gegenpress. Why else would you hire him?
You're dodging questions like Neo dodges bullets here mate.

Yes it's painful. Yes it will take time. You need to stop whining about missing top four and see the bigger picture. We blame Woodward and the Glazers for not getting football, but this time the club is doing the right thing.
And you need to stop waffling on about this ''bigger picture'', there is no master plan unfolding in front of out eyes here mate. Virtually nothing has been achieved in the last 6 months that is a positive for the club going forward. No new playing style has been implemented, with regards to changing the style of play Ten Hag will start pre-season from the exact same position he would have had Carrick been Interim until the end of the season. Ralf was hired to steady the ship and ensure the club qualified for the CL it's been confirmed from several sources now including himself. But it hasn't worked out, he's failed and ultimately in hindsight he was a very poor choice for Interim manager.
 

glazed

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And you need to stop waffling on about this ''bigger picture'', there is no master plan unfolding in front of out eyes here mate. Virtually nothing has been achieved in the last 6 months that is a positive for the club going forward.
Wrong. We have appointed ETH. That's a massive step forward. If we had binned Ralf ETH would rightly have assumed that player power ruled at Old Trafford and the club had no appetite for the kind of changes needed. Instead Ralf was allowed to say publicly in no uncertain terms what the problem was. And that's why we got a top class high press coach to a club where Pep and Klopp had not wanted to go.

tl;dr There is a plan. You can't see it.
 
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DevilRed

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Translation: "Unfortunately, although we had a piss easy fixture list in first 3 or 4 months, we could not keep that permanently. That's why I'm absolutely disappointed."
"Unfortunately, I brought in a team of ted lasso MLS blokes, and they lost all respect of the team with their training and my non-existent methods"

Not saying the players aren't to blame, but the job of the interim manager is to produce the results and motivate the team. He failed in every aspect. Especially when he started throwing people under the bus in public.

He sabotaged our season. We could have/should have easily been fourth. Easily.
 

#07

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So Ralf has been lying this whole time in the media and no one in the club has told him to stop, and haven't revoked his consultancy role? Sounds about right.
It is interesting how some people aren't asking themselves this very question.

I like Mitten, he definitely has sources in the club and obviously loves the club. His closeness to the situation sometimes curtails his ability to show critical thinking. He is determined to get the message out that Ralf has been a disaster and has had no meaningful input on long term strategy. I have no doubt he has been told this by a good source. His next question needs to be, “why???”

If it’s true that Ralf has no say or little say in what happens next, It’s maybe the biggest feck up yet. If United wanted purely an interim, then most people on this forum could have come up with 10 better candidates than Ralf.

I’ve also heard Mitten hint that it was Ralf’s failure as manager that has influenced the club’s faith in listening to his ideas about how they move forward. That is totally bonkers logic. It’s like not listening to a plumber’s advice on the leak you have because he didn’t do a good job when you asked him to wire the house.
All very valid points. To me it's obvious that someone at/around the club wants to stick the boot into Ralf.

I have no doubt that Andy can find various people employed by the club or in players' camps to tell him Ralf is the problem. He's reporting that faithfully, which I am sure makes his sources happy. However, I agree people need to be a bit more discerning about what they're being told.

Whether we are being told Ralf is God's gift or the village idiot, we should think critically about what we're being fed.
 
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mu4c_20le

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I like Mitten, he definitely has sources in the club and obviously loves the club. His closeness to the situation sometimes curtails his ability to show critical thinking. He is determined to get the message out that Ralf has been a disaster and has had no meaningful input on long term strategy. I have no doubt he has been told this by a good source. His next question needs to be, “why???”

If it’s true that Ralf has no say or little say in what happens next, It’s maybe the biggest feck up yet. If United wanted purely an interim, then most people on this forum could have come up with 10 better candidates than Ralf.

I’ve also heard Mitten hint that it was Ralf’s failure as manager that has influenced the club’s faith in listening to his ideas about how they move forward. That is totally bonkers logic. It’s like not listening to a plumber’s advice on the leak you have because he didn’t do a good job when you asked him to wire the house.
It means he doesn't know what he's doing, he underestimated the premier league, and Leipzig was probably his ceiling. He teaches plumbers and is very knowledgable himself, but most of that knowledge was from half a century ago. Would have been worrying if we still went ahead and listened to him 100%... and dont even get me started on that mythical dossier
 

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Translation: "Unfortunately, although we had a piss easy fixture list in first 3 or 4 months, we could not keep that permanently. That's why I'm absolutely disappointed."
The guy admitted he did poorly, so I'm not sure what's the value of mocking the quote.
 

RedCoffee

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Unfortunately he was all talk, philosophy and tactics but no action. He couldn't implement his plan so he may do well upstairs in the admin team.
 

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Unfortunately he was all talk, philosophy and tactics but no action. He couldn't implement his plan so he may do well upstairs in the admin team.
I wouldn't trust him to make a coffee for Kath at front desk. Let alone make decisions that could affect our team for years to come.

The sooner he is gone, the better.
 

sunama

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Think it's normal they'll exchange some insight from Ralf's time here. ETH isn't starting work early just to ignore the one person closest to everything. Too bad for all the slackers who were hoping for a fresh start. Ralf sucked as an interim but our bunch were already difficult from day 1 complaining about extra work. All the things ETH is known for. He can at least know he isn't the problem when they inevitably run crying to the press about his methods.
I'm hoping that ETH takes Ralf's feedback. Given our history, I don't think so. I think all players will be given a chance to prove themselves to the new manager.....again. Thsi will waste yet another year of a new manager assessing the squad.
 

stevoc

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Wrong. We have appointed ETH. That's a massive step forward. If we had binned Ralf ETH would rightly have assumed that player power ruled at Old Trafford and the club had no appetite for the kind of changes needed. Instead Ralf was allowed to say publicly in no uncertain terms what the problem was. And that's why we got a top class high press coach to a club where Pep and Klopp had not wanted to go.
What are you on about?

Why would United have sacked an Interim manager no matter how badly they were performing?

tl;dr There is a plan. You can't see it.
I'm starting to think you can't even see your screen mate never mind this bigger picture. Because you are not replying to what's actually being written.
 

Sviken

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He’s been the worst manager for us since 1972 — 50 years mate — I get the vitriol directed towards the players, but Ralf’s been objectively abysmal.
I can name you one way worse manager for us in the past 10 years, let alone 50.
 

sunama

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Unfortunately he was all talk, philosophy and tactics but no action. He couldn't implement his plan so he may do well upstairs in the admin team.
Ralf is a director of football. A builder of clubs. A man who hires the right playing/coaching/managerial staff and lets them do their work.
He is not known for being a good coach/manager.
It would be like buying Ronaldo to play as GK. And when he sucks, we ask him to get out of our club.

Ralf's right role is "upstairs". He is the guy who should be interviewing staff, along with the manager (ETH). He also has a history of unearthing players (hidden gems). Notice, how MUFC don't do this. We buy players with huge reputations and big transfer fees. We don't buy hidden gems for small transfer fees and turn those players into marquee players.

Ralf's knowledge is of absolute value to a club attempting to re-structure.
 

Tavern in the town

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He also has a history of unearthing players (hidden gems). Notice, how MUFC don't do this. We buy players with huge reputations and big transfer fees. We don't buy hidden gems for small transfer fees and turn those players into marquee players.
Why the hell would we? We’re not Southampton or something, we shop in a different market to clubs like Salzburg.
 

stevoc

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Ralf is a director of football. A builder of clubs. A man who hires the right playing/coaching/managerial staff and lets them do their work.
He is not known for being a good coach/manager.
It would be like buying Ronaldo to play as GK. And when he sucks, we ask him to get out of our club.

Ralf's right role is "upstairs". He is the guy who should be interviewing staff, along with the manager (ETH). He also has a history of unearthing players (hidden gems). Notice, how MUFC don't do this. We buy players with huge reputations and big transfer fees. We don't buy hidden gems for small transfer fees and turn those players into marquee players.

Ralf's knowledge is of absolute value to a club attempting to re-structure.
That doesn't describe the role it seems he will have at United.
 

Blood Mage

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If he had persuaded Lars Kornetka to come with him instead of that clown from the MLS things probably would have been different.
 

Tom Cato

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Translation: "Unfortunately, although we had a piss easy fixture list in first 3 or 4 months, we could not keep that permanently. That's why I'm absolutely disappointed."
Positive pathway? Well we allowed fewer goals, stopped scoring, and then we started to allow more goals and not score goals outside of Ronaldo heroics
 

Tom Cato

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Ralf is a director of football. A builder of clubs. A man who hires the right playing/coaching/managerial staff and lets them do their work.
He is not known for being a good coach/manager.
It would be like buying Ronaldo to play as GK. And when he sucks, we ask him to get out of our club.

Ralf's right role is "upstairs". He is the guy who should be interviewing staff, along with the manager (ETH). He also has a history of unearthing players (hidden gems). Notice, how MUFC don't do this. We buy players with huge reputations and big transfer fees. We don't buy hidden gems for small transfer fees and turn those players into marquee players.

Ralf's knowledge is of absolute value to a club attempting to re-structure.

The club literally won the FA Youth cup. Manchester United is a club that primarily develops its own players and buy the talent. The club simply isnt reliant on unearthing "take a shot" talent the way a German selling club are. Liverpool didnt buy Manè when he was a unknown quantity.

The youth system is stacked with talent that have been aquired the last few seasons, including Mejbri who is going to be an absolute star.
 

Leftback99

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Thankfully we won't have to hear from him again after Sunday and we can stop hearing this nonsense in here that he is masterminding some grand plan.
 

pcaming

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I wouldn't trust him to make a coffee for Kath at front desk. Let alone make decisions that could affect our team for years to come.

The sooner he is gone, the better.
People are acting like we didn't have a bunch of players out of form, or with a foot out the door. No coaching staff, seemingly a crap ton of internal conflict. As an interim, there's very small chance of righting that ship, when the staff and everyone knows you'll be gone. Players checked out, as they've done repeatedly, upper management nonexistent as has been the case for a decade...but RR is the worst thing to happen?

We've had 4 managers on the trot end in complete toxicity and chaos. It's the club, RR below average stint is a very small fraction of 10 years of failure.
 

DevilRed

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People are acting like we didn't have a bunch of players out of form, or with a foot out the door. No coaching staff, seemingly a crap ton of internal conflict. As an interim, there's very small chance of righting that ship, when the staff and everyone knows you'll be gone. Players checked out, as they've done repeatedly, upper management nonexistent as has been the case for a decade...but RR is the worst thing to happen?

We've had 4 managers on the trot end in complete toxicity and chaos. It's the club, RR below average stint is a very small fraction of 10 years of failure.
We're not asking him to win the champions league.

We're asking him to get fourth against spurs and fecking arsenal.

Abyssmal failure considering the players we brought in during the summer.
 
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