Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[90 + 5min]

Utd fans will always blame the players when every other club in world football shows that the manager is the more important figure. I can think of 100 examples of managers that were changed and turned around the fortunes of a club. I can’t think of a single scenario where a manager stayed somewhere 10, years while failing badly and got 22 new signings. It’s indicative of the current age of wanting shiny stuff now now now.

Managers are important. But you don’t have to be scientist to see where problem is in our club. This isn’t about football itself and training. That is another matter to work on. This is about behaviour, moral, ethics, passion, professionalism. About character, will, desire. About respect towards your manager, shirt, fans. Things that are more important then to know how to pass a ball 50 m once or twice in a season and walk around like you are in a park.
If you have one bad apple you might not notice it. But when you have 5-10 and they are ”important” and payed the most, you are in big trouble.

 

[90 + 5min]

What do you mean by Rangnick never got the support? He was interim manager, you think board should have cleared the squad in Jan window?

Also when you want to wash your dirty laundry in press then expect lot of leaks from players side. People go on and on about leaks from dressing room but they also forgot that Rangnick hired media person as his advisor, someone who works for Athletic. Both are as shit as each other when it comes to leaks, on top of that Rangnick talked so much in the press, it was obvious that players will also have their say. You can't expect it to be one sided.

As long as the results are good, everything will be alright. That's the biggest difference maker, not ted talks show.

Players are players. Managers are managers. You can’t never give players power that is equal to managers. What players are supposed to do is just be quiet and do as they are told. Our you get problems like we see. Specially when our players have mentallity that is awful.

 

[B. Munich]

Jose has better CV than Rangnick, even if you make Rangnick 30 years younger and ask him to manage, he won't get a CV like Jose, but still Jose is wrong choice for us. It's not just about CVs, it's also the trend, whether they are improving or declining. For example, Poch in 2022 would be underwhelming choice but in 2016 or 2018 when Jose was sacked, he would have seen as very good appoinment.

I never compared Rangnick to Jose. I consider his football as absolutely dire and wouldn't want him near any position at Bayern. But I'm sure he has a strong enough personality to do a clear out. He already identified your problems in 2018 with Pogba, Martial and Shaw. However, the board backed the players and not the coach, so he didn't have a chance. Since then the situation only became worse at United.

What do you mean by Rangnick never got the support? He was interim manager, you think board should have cleared the squad in Jan window?

No. My point is it was wrong to appoint a guy like Rangnick as interim coach. He is many things but no interim coach. Hire him for 18 months to do a clear out with full support of the board, and I'm pretty sure you would be in better position than continuing with this lot of players and new coach.

Also when you want to wash your dirty laundry in press then expect lot of leaks from players side. People go on and on about leaks from dressing room but they also forgot that Rangnick hired media person as his advisor, someone who works for Athletic. Both are as shit as each other when it comes to leaks, on top of that Rangnick talked so much in the press, it was obvious that players will also have their say. You can't expect it to be one sided.

Yes Rangnick took a no prisoners approach. He identified the trouble makers and bad apples. Now it was up to the board to either side with players or the coach. Previously, under Jose they sided with the players, under Rangnick I am even not sure whose side they took. They didn't really support either side. They did nothing and just let the situation escalate further....

 

[stevoc]

I actually believe Rangnick is an excellent man manager and knows better than most how to build a team. He isn't afraid to take the necessary though decisions. But of course he needs the full backing off the board.
When Klopp and Pep joined Liverpool and Man City they immediately started a huge clear out with the full support of the board. Rangnick never got this support. I believe Rangnick would be able to assemble a strong squad being able to compete. He showed it at all his previous clubs. However, this can't be done in 6 months.
Now ETH doesn't have this experience at all. He is surely a good coach. Would he take over Man City, I'm sure he would be successful. What I mean ETH needs a functional team. He then will most likely make it better. However, I doubt he is the ideal guy for a big clear out and total rebuild of the squad. I might be wrong and the future will tell

Going off his 6 months at United he seems to have lost his touch.

 

[sunama]

Yes Rangnick took a no prisoners approach. He identified the trouble makers and bad apples. Now it was up to the board to either side with players or the coach. Previously, under Jose they sided with the players, under Rangnick I am even not sure whose side they took. They didn't really support either side. They did nothing and just let the situation escalate further....

Agreed on all points.
And this is the reason why I believe nothing has really changed. There doesn't seem to be any desire by the board to get rid of the bad players and while this attitude remains, the manager will always take the blame and be fired every 2-3 years.
We need a landmark firing and getting rid of Rashford would send shockwaves through the dressing room.
Rashford is angling for a new contract and if that happens, it will show that nothing has changed and that players who are consistently performing badly, are still being rewarded.

So far, not a single "turd" has left the club and I believe that the vast majority of the team who performed badly this season, will be starting for us, in the first game of next season.

 

[sunama]

Going off his 6 months at United he seems to have lost his touch.

He wasn't backed. He arrived and repeatedly stated that the mentality of the players is bad. Jose said exactly the same thing.
Fans are ignoring 2 different managers and believe that ETH will come in and turn the players with bad attitudes into winners. This is not going to happen.
If the "turds" remain in the team, ETH will be thrown under the bus and within 3 years will be fired.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I never compared Rangnick to Jose. I consider his football as absolutely dire and wouldn't want him near any position at Bayern. But I'm sure he has a strong enough personality to do a clear out. He already identified your problems in 2018 with Pogba, Martial and Shaw. However, the board backed the players and not the coach, so he didn't have a chance. Since then the situation only became worse at United.



No. My point is it was wrong to appoint a guy like Rangnick as interim coach. He is many things but no interim coach. Hire him for 18 months to do a clear out with full support of the board, and I'm pretty sure you would be in better position than continuing with this lot of players and new coach.



Yes Rangnick took a no prisoners approach. He identified the trouble makers and bad apples. Now it was up to the board to either side with players or the coach. Previously, under Jose they sided with the players, under Rangnick I am even not sure whose side they took. They didn't really support either side. They did nothing and just let the situation escalate further....

It's not an "approach". Rangnick simply has no filter and no sense of boundaries beyond his sense of himself as a guy who runs clubs and buys/sells players at will, which he could do successfully at irrelevant smallish billionaire funded plastic clubs with no history, identity, or expectations competing in broke German lower divisons. All he did with respect to the Man United squad was running his mouth to excuse himself.
"Ronaldo scored a few goals but everyone knows he's not a pressing monster" ...

 

[stevoc]

He wasn't backed. He arrived and repeatedly stated that the mentality of the players is bad. Jose said exactly the same thing.
Fans are ignoring 2 different managers and believe that ETH will come in and turn the players with bad attitudes into winners. This is not going to happen.
If the "turds" remain in the team, ETH will be thrown under the bus and within 3 years will be fired.

What does this even mean and what does it have to do with managing players on an individual level? Backed by whom?

If the mentality of the players is bad that's where man management comes in. It's a managers job to lift morale and find a way to motivate the squad as a whole and players individually.

If Ralf came in and just decided after a few weeks that players like Ronaldo, DeGea, Varane, Bruno etc. had a bad mentality and gave up then that's his failure as much as anyone's.

 

[90 + 5min]

It's not an "approach". Rangnick simply has no filter and no sense of boundaries beyond his sense of himself as a guy who runs clubs and buys/sells players at will, which he could do successfully at irrelevant smallish billionaire funded plastic clubs with no history, identity, or expectations competing in broke German lower divisons. All he did with respect to the Man United squad was running his mouth to excuse himself.
"Ronaldo scored a few goals but everyone knows he's not a pressing monster" ...

No filter or being spot on saying as it is? There is two way to see it.

 

[stevoc]

It's not an "approach". Rangnick simply has no filter and no sense of boundaries beyond his sense of himself as a guy who runs clubs and buys/sells players at will, which he could do successfully at irrelevant smallish billionaire funded plastic clubs with no history, identity, or expectations competing in broke German lower divisons. All he did with respect to the Man United squad was running his mouth to excuse himself.
"Ronaldo scored a few goals but everyone knows he's not a pressing monster" ...

Yeah maybe devise tactics and a style of play that will compliment the greatest goalscorer in the history of football and not worry about trying to get a 37 year old to press for 90 minutes.

He's did a bad job at United as a manager on almost every level, people need to stop making excuses for him and call a spade a spade.

 

[roonster09]

Players are players. Managers are managers. You can’t never give players power that is equal to managers. What players are supposed to do is just be quiet and do as they are told. Our you get problems like we see. Specially when our players have mentallity that is awful.

When you shit on players all the time in PC, you should also expect same from other side.

I don't get this "players should do as they are told", its fine if we are talking about SAF or even Pep/Klopp who have full respect at the club for the work they have done, not for someone who haven't achieved anything at the club.

Players are employees just like managers are employees too. It's on managers too to win players trust and build relationships. Its not coincidence that managers like Klopp, pep never loses dressing room whereas Jose loses everywhere.

 

[roonster09]

I never compared Rangnick to Jose. I consider his football as absolutely dire and wouldn't want him near any position at Bayern. But I'm sure he has a strong enough personality to do a clear out. He already identified your problems in 2018 with Pogba, Martial and Shaw. However, the board backed the players and not the coach, so he didn't have a chance. Since then the situation only became worse at United.

I gave you example, Jose has much better CV but he isn't right fit. Jose identified problems in 2018? Well he signed on of the problem for record fee, wanted to replace Shaw with Rose who would have been hilarious waste of money. Shaw won 2 ManUtd player of the season and was also in PFA team of the year, having some very good seasons whereas Rose was a journey man playing at extremely low level. Playing having poor season doesn't mean Jose identified problem back in 2018, if anything Shaw's performance should show how wrong Jose was. Anyways Jose shit can be discussed in Jose thread and it's been done to death.

Jose has awesome CV, something Rangnick can only dream of. "IF Rangnick can't do, how can ETH" is just silly statement. In grand scheme of things, Rangnick is not class coach, he is awesome in ted talk shows though.

No. My point is it was wrong to appoint a guy like Rangnick as interim coach. He is many things but no interim coach. Hire him for 18 months to do a clear out with full support of the board, and I'm pretty sure you would be in better position than continuing with this lot of players and new coach.

If 6 months is anything to go by, then it's wise decision not to let him continue for one more year. We have signed proper coach now, every reason to be positive about the upcoming season. I have said this before Rangnick became manager too, good coaches elevates the squad quality (SAF, Klopp, Pep), average ones (or washed up ones) makes everyone look average.

Yes Rangnick took a no prisoners approach. He identified the trouble makers and bad apples. Now it was up to the board to either side with players or the coach. Previously, under Jose they sided with the players, under Rangnick I am even not sure whose side they took. They didn't really support either side. They did nothing and just let the situation escalate further....

Rangnick was not hired as some detecive, not sure why everyone wants to make it was some Soap opera. He was hired to coach the team, once the results became shit it was just a war at the club. Like i said, results are the ultimate decider, when it's good everything is good, when it's shit everything is shit.

All this "Club sided with players" is just lazy analysis or points. If they sided with players then Jose wouldn't have given chance to sell any of the players. Point is, we changed most of the squad, Jose flirter with PSG and later lost dressing room, fought with almost everyone and had to leave. Same happened at Chelsea and Madrid too. They won, so no one cares about Jose or how right he was. Also all this "club sided with players" is because they didn't sell Martial. He never wanted to sell Pogba, he even made him captain that season. It was only for Martial.

 

[B. Munich]

Going off his 6 months at United he seems to have lost his touch.

I have managed many big international IT and business consulting projects. In every project there were consultants that didn't adhere to the guidelines and rules as well as key users from the customer side who were slowing down progress as they had their own agendas.
As project manager you have to identify the potential trouble makers who might endanger the project targets and cause a negative atmosphere. Of course you first talk to them and try to bring them back into line. Sometime this works, sometime it doesn't. Then you have to escalate the issues to the steering committee (board} and ask for replacements. If they don't back you, then it's best to step down as project manager as in most cases you won't be able to meet your targets.
Rangnick identified the issues and wasn't able to solve these internally. Neither could he manage the players, not could he get the support of the board. That's when he came out publicly. Probably as last resort to force the boards hands.
You can say he is a bad man manager and should be able to bring the players back into line, scaling back their egos and personal interests for the good of the team. Sure he failed there. But so did Jose, who is one of the top 5 managers of all time and Ole whose biggest strengths were being the nice guy and creating a feel good atmosphere (mate FC I remember).

 

[90 + 5min]

When you shit on players all the time in PC, you should also expect same from other side.

I don't get this "players should do as they are told", its fine if we are talking about SAF or even Pep/Klopp who have full respect at the club for the work they have done, not for someone who haven't achieved anything at the club.

Players are employees just like managers are employees too. It's on managers too to win players trust and build relationships. Its not coincidence that managers like Klopp, pep never loses dressing room whereas Jose loses everywhere.

He didn't do that. He was more honest and transparent once he saw how our players performed and behaved. It is not like players suddenly became that once Rangnick came. He wouldn't even be here if players did their job from the begining.

You can't set a special rule for one manager but not the other. You should know that regardless of manager you do your work. You do your best. Even if you are Sam Allerdyce or Jurgen Klopp. You got to have some character and honour. I often talk about those kind of words. About professionalism.

Now you are bit harsh on Jose Mourinho. For example, you do know that he has more titles then Klopp? You do know that he has won league in every country where he has been? Sure, he isn't easy one to work with. But the man is winner.

 

[roonster09]

You can say he is a bad man manager and should be able to bring the players back into line, scaling back their egos and personal interests for the good of the team. Sure he failed there. But so did Jose, who is one of the top 5 managers of all time and Ole whose biggest strengths were being the nice guy and creating a feel good atmosphere (mate FC I remember).

De Gea - Never fell out with any manager

AWB - Wasn't there when Jose was manager
Maguire - Wasn't present
Varane - wasn't present
Shaw - He barely played during Jose season, Young played as LB

Fred - He was signed in 2018-19 season, Jose was sacked 5 months after Fred was signed
McT - Jose's favourite

Bruno - He wasn't there when Jose was manager

Elanga - He wasn't there
Sancho - He wasn't there

Ronaldo - He wasn't there.

This is the team Rangnick played most of the time, you can even switch Lindelof and Varane and Telles with Shaw. Like I said, most of the analysis are just correct with people coming up with "Even Jose couldn't", well it's not same team, at least not the 80% of the team Rangnick used.

Van Gaal had different team from the one Moyes had
Jose had different team from the one Van Gaal had
Ole and Rangnick had different team from the one Jose had.

Ofcourse there will be few common players in the squad but the starting 11 was different.

 

[roonster09]

He didn't do that. He was more honest and transparent once he saw how our players performed and behaved. It is not like players suddenly became that once Rangnick came. He wouldn't even be here if players did their job from the begining.

You can't set a special rule for one manager but not the other. You should know that regardless of manager you do your work. You do your best. Even if you are Sam Allerdyce or Jurgen Klopp. You got to have some character and honour. I often talk about those kind of words. About professionalism.

Now you are bit harsh on Jose Mourinho. For example, you do know that he has more titles then Klopp? You do know that he has won league in every country where he has been? Sure, he isn't easy one to work with. But the man is winner.

Manager who has best interests of the club works with club and players, tries to find solution for the problems rather than appointing media person as his advisor to do his PR job and save his image.

There is no winners here, everyone is a selfish loser.

I'm not harsh on Jose, he lost dressing room at 3 clubs in 6 years, Klopp and Pep didn't in 12+ years. Jose won big trophies but that was past. He didn't win league title in 7 years, he didn't win CL in 12 years. Klopp won just few seasons ago and he is in CL finals this season.

 

[Maticmaker]

I just don't buy any of this narrative that has built up around Ralf to be honest.

Fair enough! Its what makes football and the Red Cafe interesting, differences of opinion... the spice of life

 

[B. Munich]

gave you example, Jose has much better CV but he isn't right fit. Jose identified problems in 2018? Well he signed on of the problem for record fee, wanted to replace Shaw with Rose who would have been hilarious waste of money

I get your point and you have of course the right to see it that way. Whose point of view is the right one? We will only know in a year or so.

Jose identified poor attitudes but he isn't that great in buying players and squad building. He is more after the quick fix. That's where Rangnick strengths kick in. However, he wasn't allowed to prove it. 1 or 2 good hirings in January might have turned your fortunes and United might have gotten top 4. Just like the signing off Fernandez 2 years ago. Unfortunately, we will never know.

 

[B. Munich]

De Gea - Never fell out with any manager

AWB - Wasn't there when Jose was manager
Maguire - Wasn't present
Varane - wasn't present
Shaw - He barely played during Jose season, Young played as LB

Fred - He was signed in 2018-19 season, Jose was sacked 5 months after Fred was signed
McT - Jose's favourite

Bruno - He wasn't there when Jose was manager

Elanga - He wasn't there
Sancho - He wasn't there

Ronaldo - He wasn't there.

This is the team Rangnick played most of the time, you can even switch Lindelof and Varane and Telles with Shaw. Like I said, most of the analysis are just correct with people coming up with "Even Jose couldn't", well it's not same team, at least not the 80% of the team Rangnick used.

Van Gaal had different team from the one Moyes had
Jose had different team from the one Van Gaal had
Ole and Rangnick had different team from the one Jose had.

Ofcourse there will be few common players in the squad but the starting 11 was different.

The whole squad is responsible for the atmosphere and sentiment in a club.
Not only the starters. You still have Pogba, Lingard, Martial, VDB, Rashford and Cavani who all weren't happy for different reasons.
It only shows the issues only became more and bigger since Jose left. Probably so big, that the team became unmanageable.
Maybe ETH will solve all the problems and United will have a successful season. It's possible, however I doubt it and would bet against it.

 

[Maticmaker]

Thats bullshit. VG didnt know he was getting sacked at the end of the season as he had just won the FA cup and slated the club going behind his back with Mourinho. He said he only wanted 2 years but the club insisted on 3, then went behind his back.

Its on record from LvG himself that he offered to resign in the November, following some dreadful results including a mini-pasting from Arsenal, but it was not accepted by Ed Woodward.
The other stuff admitted is just 'scuttlebutt' but managers do talk to one another off record!

 

[PoTMS]

The fact that his greatest achievement was "telling it as it is" tells you all you need to know about his time at United.

 

[roonster09]

The whole squad is responsible for the atmosphere and sentiment in a club.
Not only the starters. You still have Pogba, Lingard, Martial, VDB, Rashford and Cavani who all weren't happy for different reasons.
It only shows the issues only became more and bigger since Jose left. Probably so big, that the team became unmanageable.
Maybe ETH will solve all the problems and United will have a successful season. It's possible, however I doubt it and would bet against it.

Or Rangnick is way past his best as a coach and his expertise is at different areas?

No manager will be walking in to happy squad, the reason they even got the job is because previous one got sacked, biggest reason is always poor results which means you will have squad with poor morale.

It's managers job to manage.

 

[Samid]

The fact that his greatest achievement was "telling it as it is" tells you all you need to know about his time at United.

Should add “Exposer of Football Clubs” to his LinkedIn description.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

You think we should be pessimistic, miserable bastards instead?

 

[roonster09]

The fact that his greatest achievement was "telling it as it is" tells you all you need to know about his time at United.

Exactly, one more "he tells truth" manager.

 

[90 + 5min]

Manager who has best interests of the club works with club and players, tries to find solution for the problems rather than appointing media person as his advisor to do his PR job and save his image.

There is no winners here, everyone is a selfish loser.

I'm not harsh on Jose, he lost dressing room at 3 clubs in 6 years, Klopp and Pep didn't in 12+ years. Jose won big trophies but that was past. He didn't win league title in 7 years, he didn't win CL in 12 years. Klopp won just few seasons ago and he is in CL finals this season.

Manager are here to guide, set up, train players so team can function in best way possible. If players don't care, don't want or don't understand then you got problems. As a manager you can't do anything about it because players are paid disgusting amount of money and are assets to the club. You need backing from the club. I would have fined players every time they lost by 2 weeks wage if that was possible to make them work and behave like football players. I would have fined them for every little thing that is not professional.

You are correct about that. In the end, there are no winners here in this mess.

You don't have to go crazy to show you lost dressing room. Lot of managers have done that. Big ones. But thay did that in more silent way. So Mourinho isn't the only one.

 

[roonster09]

Manager are here to guide, set up, train players so team can function in best way possible. If players don't care, don't want or don't understand then you got problems. As a manager you can't do anything about it because players are paid disgusting amount of money and are assets to the club. You need backing from the club. I would have fined players every time they lost by 2 weeks wage if that was possible to make them work and behave like football players. I would have fined them for every little thing that is not professional.

You are correct about that. In the end, there are no winners here in this mess.

You don't have to go crazy to show you lost dressing room. Lot of managers have done that. Big ones. But thay did that in more silent way. So Mourinho isn't the only one.

So managers are not paid to manage players, talk to them, make them feel comfortable when they are dropped? SAF spoke to players individually when they were dropped, players are not robots. They have to be managed.

Also why do you think players don't care or don't want to understand? Do you mean managers always set the team right and train them right? What if players are following the manager methods but not able to achieve good results? Why should players get blame for shit set up? Why shouldn't manager be fined for poor set up?

So many managers lose dressing room, they move on. Only in this case people still come up with posts as if Jose is some saint who was done by vultures at the club.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Wasn’t the consensus 12 months ago that this was the most likeable group of players we’ve had in years?

 

[RacingClub]

Wasn’t the consensus 12 months ago that this was the most likeable group of players we’ve had in years?

Yes.

 

[90 + 5min]

So managers are not paid to manage players, talk to them, make them feel comfortable when they are dropped? SAF spoke to players individually when they were dropped, players are not robots. They have to be managed.

Also why do you think players don't care or don't want to understand? Do you mean managers always set the team right and train them right? What if players are following the manager methods but not able to achieve good results? Why should players get blame for shit set up? Why shouldn't manager be fined for poor set up?

So many managers lose dressing room, they move on. Only in this case people still come up with posts as if Jose is some saint who was done by vultures at the club.

We have to come away from talking about managers that need to hold players hands and massage their egos. Players and managers are there to do the job. Every manager need to have human side in them but thats it. Every manager talks to players all the time. So don’t think that Rangnick never talked to players.
When you have multiple managers with same sort of players you got to wonder where the problem is.
Every manager makes misstakes. Every. That doesn’t mean players should just stop working. I guess you watch games like myself. In that case, you must have seen lack of work. Lack of caring. Lack of everything. You must have seen behaviour on and off the pitch.

 

[El Jefe]

De Gea - Never fell out with any manager

AWB - Wasn't there when Jose was manager
Maguire - Wasn't present
Varane - wasn't present
Shaw - He barely played during Jose season, Young played as LB

Fred - He was signed in 2018-19 season, Jose was sacked 5 months after Fred was signed
McT - Jose's favourite

Bruno - He wasn't there when Jose was manager

Elanga - He wasn't there
Sancho - He wasn't there

Ronaldo - He wasn't there.

This is the team Rangnick played most of the time, you can even switch Lindelof and Varane and Telles with Shaw. Like I said, most of the analysis are just correct with people coming up with "Even Jose couldn't", well it's not same team, at least not the 80% of the team Rangnick used.

Van Gaal had different team from the one Moyes had
Jose had different team from the one Van Gaal had
Ole and Rangnick had different team from the one Jose had.

Ofcourse there will be few common players in the squad but the starting 11 was different.

I've noticed when it comes to Rangnick supporters the facts or context aren't relevant. It's much easier to use throw away quotes like "Rangnick wasn't backed", "these players have thrown every manager under the bus", "they ignored his instructions", "he wasn't here to make top 4 but to assess and expose the frauds".

No matter how much evidence to the contrary you provide, the Ralfisms will keep getting commented.

He didn't come into an ideal circumstance of course but that's a consequence of a manager change. A good manager galvanises the drsssing room and puts the utmost importance on the next game. Ralf alienated the dressing room and seemed less involved with the next game but more interested in talking about other peoples jobs and transfer windows. I can't stress enough how terrible Rangnick's approach to his interim role was, it was a clinic on how to fail at an interim management position.

 

[Marcus]

Objectively, Ralf failed. Maybe Ole could have done better (if he had reverted to counter-attacking). After all, this was squad he built. But this change is good for us in the long run since we are moving away from that style of play and Ralf's style is closer to ETH's. So this saves some time in the pre-season training.

 

[roonster09]

We have to come away from talking about managers that need to hold players hands and massage their egos. Players and managers are there to do the job. Every manager need to have human side in them but thats it. Every manager talks to players all the time. So don’t think that Rangnick never talked to players.
When you have multiple managers with same sort of players you got to wonder where the problem is.
Every manager makes misstakes. Every. That doesn’t mean players should just stop working. I guess you watch games like myself. In that case, you must have seen lack of work. Lack of caring. Lack of everything. You must have seen behaviour on and off the pitch.

You don't need to massage the ego, managers should be managing players. If not, then why should they be above players?

When you have multiple managers with same sort of players you got to wonder where the problem is. This is the problem, they are not same players. Van Gaal, Jose and Ole had different squads with few players common. Are you saying those same common players are the reason for the whole mess?

You play how you train, when players have no clue on what to do with the ball, end result is Manutd first team on the pitch. Also work rate depends on manager. We were top 3 in distance covered under Van Gaal and bottom 3 under Jose, Chelsea were bottom 3 or 5 under Jose, top 3-5 under Conte, same with Pool. Spurs were always top or top 3-5 under Poch, midtable to low table at Spurs.

If you think managers are responsible for all these things, why even have them above players? Managers are the big reason on the dressing room atmosphere, performance on the pitch, working hard and most of the things.

Why is that Jose team always look defensive and Pep team always look proactive and dominate possession, with every player knowing what to do on the pitch, players moving as if they have chips in their brain. Is it because of players or because of the coach's work?

Coming to this 'Players shouldn't stop working", that's a good point but the problem is you are also backing Jose who stopped working just because everyone in the club didn't accept with couple of his decisions. So manager can down tools?

 

[roonster09]

I've noticed when it comes to Rangnick supporters the facts or context aren't relevant. It's much easier to use throw away quotes like "Rangnick wasn't backed", "these players have thrown every manager under the bus", "they ignored his instructions", "he wasn't here to make top 4 but to assess and expose the frauds".

No matter how much evidence to the contrary you provide, the Ralfisms will keep getting commented.

He didn't come into an ideal circumstance of course but that's a consequence of a manager change. A good manager galvanises the drsssing room and puts the utmost importance on the next game. Ralf alienated the dressing room and seemed less involved with the next game but more interested in talking about other peoples jobs and transfer windows. I can't stress enough how terrible Rangnick's approach to his interim role was, it was a clinic on how to fail at an interim management position.

Exactly. No manager walks into happy dressing room, if that's the case they wouldn't get the job as previous manager wouldn't have been sacked.

 

[Tom Cato]

Once he was available, Ole wanted him. That's my point. You completely missed my point.

For the exact reasons under the part you bolded. We can both be right.

 

[Relevated]

I've noticed when it comes to Rangnick supporters the facts or context aren't relevant. It's much easier to use throw away quotes like "Rangnick wasn't backed", "these players have thrown every manager under the bus", "they ignored his instructions", "he wasn't here to make top 4 but to assess and expose the frauds".

No matter how much evidence to the contrary you provide, the Ralfisms will keep getting commented.

He didn't come into an ideal circumstance of course but that's a consequence of a manager change. A good manager galvanises the drsssing room and puts the utmost importance on the next game. Ralf alienated the dressing room and seemed less involved with the next game but more interested in talking about other peoples jobs and transfer windows. I can't stress enough how terrible Rangnick's approach to his interim role was, it was a clinic on how to fail at an interim management position.

There was a moment where he was getting a bit of success and he mentioned that he wouldnt mind staying on beyond the summer. In terms of a 'modern day manager', he did many things wrong.

- Knew the players would outlast him but still didnt try to win them over
- Instead of dealing with things like an interim, he dealt with problems as if he was ever going to play a major part in the club, he wasnt even aware of how certain his consultancy role was. He was thinking long term and was trying to force the clubs stance. They'd never back him
- He wasn't entirely honest with the players. There was an instance where Dean Henderson got slated for leaving the stadium (vs west ham?), then it was later revealed Rangnick went back on his promise of playing him. The same is with Lingard, Martial etc, The communication was obviously lacking between the board and Rangnick in terms of player schedules, but the players were being blamed by him.
- He didnt get their trust at all. Its not the fault of the players that they're not good enough for a top 4 side, but every time he came out in the press conference you wouldnt know who hes about to attack
- Dont remember him ever praising any performance or individual. Sometimes praise has to be faked.

This is only a few things.

 

[Relevated]

From his time here its easy to see he has no respect for people and is a self serving control freak.

The answer to the question of why he was in a middle of the road club in Russia is because that's the only club willing to give him the level of power he wanted. From day one when he joined us, he always spoke out of turn and had so much to say about other people's jobs. People on here and fans online like it because they view things through a Ralf vs the players/board lense but objectively speaking he's an unpleasant man.

This is true, with hindsight. Maybe if he had total club then things would have been good, but that means everyone else is undermined and nobody deserves that. He might as well take over from the glazers.

 

[MattyLT]

Of course not, not in public, ETH wants establish that he is his own man, especially this early....... but if he doesn't talk to Ralf (behind the bike shed or wherever) then the fans had better start praying and looking out for a new manager. ETH may ultimately dismiss everything Ralf says, about players, methods, etc., but common sense dictates he has to listen first!

In the presser, ETH made a point of talking to a lot of people about what's been going on at United, and that it would be part of his analysis. Even mentioned Rangnick and Van Gaal by name, as far as I remember. Also said he'll be "drawing his own lines" (read: "conclusions"), which obviously he will. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. I think we can be pretty sure he'll be talking to people, and already have been, since it's both sensical (as you said) + it's what he said.

 

[90 + 5min]

You don't need to massage the ego, managers should be managing players. If not, then why should they be above players?

When you have multiple managers with same sort of players you got to wonder where the problem is. This is the problem, they are not same players. Van Gaal, Jose and Ole had different squads with few players common. Are you saying those same common players are the reason for the whole mess?

You play how you train, when players have no clue on what to do with the ball, end result is Manutd first team on the pitch. Also work rate depends on manager. We were top 3 in distance covered under Van Gaal and bottom 3 under Jose, Chelsea were bottom 3 or 5 under Jose, top 3-5 under Conte, same with Pool. Spurs were always top or top 3-5 under Poch, midtable to low table at Spurs.

If you think managers are responsible for all these things, why even have them above players? Managers are the big reason on the dressing room atmosphere, performance on the pitch, working hard and most of the things.

Why is that Jose team always look defensive and Pep team always look proactive and dominate possession, with every player knowing what to do on the pitch, players moving as if they have chips in their brain. Is it because of players or because of the coach's work?

Coming to this 'Players shouldn't stop working", that's a good point but the problem is you are also backing Jose who stopped working just because everyone in the club didn't accept with couple of his decisions. So manager can down tools?

Problem is our players, not all, think to high of themselfs that you can’t manage them. Those who use us more as a hobby and boosting their ”brands”.
I’m saying that club after SirAlex Ferguson have let players dictate everything. From wages to culture inside. A culture that is no longer built on ”To be the best”. It is about who got more likes on social media, who got more cars, who got coolest hair stylas and so on. We have been used to max. When someone started to call it players just stopped playing. 0 professionalism.
When it comes to Mourinho, he was rightly sacked but the reason why he went half crazy was because of players.

 

[roonster09]

Problem is our players, not all, think to high of themselfs that you can’t manage them. Those who use us more as a hobby and boosting their ”brands”.
I’m saying that club after SirAlex Ferguson have let players dictate everything. From wages to culture inside. A culture that is no longer built on ”To be the best”. It is about who got more likes on social media, who got more cars, who got coolest hair stylas and so on. We have been used to max. When someone started to call it players just stopped playing. 0 professionalism.
When it comes to Mourinho, he was rightly sacked but the reason why he went half crazy was because of players.

So likewise can we say players went crazy because of Jose? It can't be one sided.

I don't know why we always have to give excuses for manager's poor behavior.

We are not winning, so all these narratives are building. Once we start winning, everything will be again back to normal. That's how it works at every club.