Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[noodlehair]

I think you have hit on the main point of argument here. You think the board were sensible in appointing him. To me it was never going to work.

The kind of changes you’re talking about are a job for pre-season and the new season that follows it - after you recruit players suited to the approach. What we actually needed was a guy to get them back to basics for a few months.

I get that but I don't get how you think that would have turned our a whole lot better, or who you think would have been suitable that we could have realistically got. Basics are things like discipline, or the exact stuff I mentioned in my previous post that Ten Hag has had to sort out. The sort of things that are quite hard to implement on a group of discontented, ego driven players who know for a fact you're going to be out the door at the end of the season if they don't like you anyway.

The board weren't sensible at all. They should have replaced Ole in the summer before the season, after we had spent the entire second half of the previous season stagnating and after he kept making, frankly, stupid decisions. By the time they replaced him I don't think there's anyone who could have come in and rescued much. Its not really comparable to a team in the relegation zone suddenly winning a few games to stay up, or Chelsea replacing a manager when results and performances start going wrong (as opposed to nearly a year later). My whole point is that the blame is in the board/club rather than an interim manager who had no resource or power to make any significant improvements, and I'm a bit lost how anyone doesn't see that at this point.

 

[OrcaFat]

I get that but I don't get how you think that would have turned our a whole lot better, or who you think would have been suitable that we could have realistically got. Basics are things like discipline, or the exact stuff I mentioned in my previous post that Ten Hag has had to sort out. The sort of things that are quite hard to implement on a group of discontented, ego driven players who know for a fact you're going to be out the door at the end of the season if they don't like you anyway.

The board weren't sensible at all. They should have replaced Ole in the summer before the season, after we had spent the entire second half of the previous season stagnating and after he kept making, frankly, stupid decisions. By the time they replaced him I don't think there's anyone who could have come in and rescued much. Its not really comparable to a team in the relegation zone suddenly winning a few games to stay up, or Chelsea replacing a manager when results and performances start going wrong (as opposed to nearly a year later). My whole point is that the blame is in the board/club rather than an interim manager who had no resource or power to make any significant improvements, and I'm a bit lost how anyone doesn't see that at this point.

Yeah we’re not disagreeing much. Board definitely to blame. It’s just a question of whether anyone else could have done better. Maybe not, we’ll never know, but I think Ralf was a curious choice. And it’s not even that he was particularly available, he was in post and, I believe, wasn’t that keen to come. Possibly that last part is a clue to why we didn’t get someone else - maybe no-one suitable was interested.

 

[Mr PG]

No coach would have got us into the CL last season when you consider Martial left, Greenwood got himself into trouble and Rashford's mental struggles, a McFred midfield and Maguire-Lindeleof partnership.

 

[Mr PG]

ETH was determined to do it his way but alot of the issues he's been struggling with...Ronaldo, Maguire being finished etc Ralf would have warned him about. We paid the price the first two games before ETH saw the same issues but credit to him he quickly benched them.

 

[Daengophile]

I would like to see Rangnick return as head scout

 

[stevoc]

"You tell me" isn't really an answer though is it? If you think Rangnick was "atrocious" then I'd assume you think we could have got someone better. If I could tell you who that was I wouldn't be disagreeing with you.

So unless I provide the name of another coach then I'm unfair in thinking Ralf was atrocious? So you don't ever have an opinion on someone's performance unless you have an alternative in mind?

I imagine at this stage almost everyone assumes we could have got someone better.

I think you're severely underestimating the mess he took over and exactly how poor we were. There were only a small handful of games last season where the opposition didn't completely outplay us, and actually nearly all of those were in the spell after Rangnick took over and before the players completely checked out for the season.

You can't seriously compare Eddie Howe taking over a side bottom of the league with someone taking over United mid season and being expected to propell them to some form of success. The situations aren't even comparable. How many discontented players with Ronaldo, Pogba or even Rashford or Lingard's ego were at Newcastle? How much criticism would they get for losing 5-1 to Liverpool?

I don't think Rangnick did well. At the end of the day he ended up with a team that had given up on him and themselves, which obviously isn't great, but he also walked into a fecking graveyard and was being asked to bring it back to life.

I reckon the club after finally realising Ole needed to go, actually made a sensible decision in realising they needed to be a bit more progressive and needed a coach who could implement a modern style of play and some discipline around it...but the time to do that would have been before the season, so they ended up getting Rangnick as some kind of attempt at a transitional interim, since no one who fitted that bill would be dumb enough to take it on halfway through a season with a squad full of unhappy players.

And I think Rangnick did do some good in taking the brunt of that so Ten Hag could come in both with a clean slate and a remit not to take any shite.

Yeah he definitely didn't do well and I don't think it's an unfair comparison.

Some of the stuff Ten Hag has publicly had to do talks you juat how bad it was. Forcing players to get rid of their private chefs, having to punish members of the team for being late to team meetings, or fecking off before the end of games because they were bored/fed up. Having to hold a training session where the whole team went on a big long run to teach them that it's important to run during games. I mean this is a professional football club. It's actually laughable...and this is what Rangnick would have walked into, half way through a car crash season, and been asked to sort out despite having no authority to, since he wasn't even the full time manager....and not to forget that on top pf that he had idiots like Lingard and Pogba, and didn't have Casemiro, Martinez, Varane, Eriksen...who would probably all be in our top 5 players now.

I think the point about might as well have stuck with Carrick is maybe a fair one, but I don't think it would have made much difference. It could even have gone much worse...and he might have not been interested anyway. Ole simply had to go as we were literally getting hammered every single week regardless of the opponent...and it had reached the point where the scorelines weren't even hiding it anymore.

Yep he was left to sort out the mess created by others.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah, I think Carrick probably had too much integrity to accept that, feeling he was part of the problem.

I don’t really understand why people are defending RR. So most of us agree that it was a mess he was walking into but defence of RR seems to be made up of two “arguments”.
1. Ole left a mess behind.
2. Nobody could have done better.

I would love to hear one good thing that happened when he was here or one good thing that came out of his having been here.

Saying that “it’s not his fault he was shit” is not really a defence. But I’m not looking to put the boot in; from my perspective, I am really looking at the board and the muddled thinking behind his appointment.

If not Ralf, it didn’t have to be Allardyce but he does actually have the right credentials for a short term appointment. He’s a lot more than a “relegation avoider”. When he got made England manager, there were some dissenting voices but a lot of people could see the merit. At this stage of his career he wouldn’t expect to get the Utd job full time but he would set us up to our strengths from day 1 and I think he would have done a better job than Ralf. As coach. For those few months. And that’s what we needed.

Appointing RR smacks of that clever-clever, self-congratulatory culture in the executive management team. And, from what I can gather, they didn’t want to listen to a word he said.

Yeah I think we all agree on point 1 but Point 2 is almost certainly not true. I've no idea why some are still trying to defend Ralf's time at United either.

The club/board are as much or more to blame for the clusterfeck that was last season as Ole and Ralf were.

 

[EtH]

I was as sweet on Ralf as anyone and wanted him to help bring some direction to the club as a consultant.

But why is this thread still a thing ?

 

[stevoc]

I was as sweet on Ralf as anyone and wanted him to help bring some direction to the club as a consultant.

But why is this thread still a thing ?

Ronaldo brought it back to life apparently with his comments on Ralf during his interview.

 

[OrcaFat]

I was as sweet on Ralf as anyone and wanted him to help bring some direction to the club as a consultant.

But why is this thread still a thing ?

People keep posting in it!

Probably time to let it die. It’s gone off topic a lot with tons of posts about Ralf as a coach (guilty). I could see this thread continuing as a place to debate the need for someone like Ralf upstairs in the football department instead of (or as well as) the likes of Fletcher. But people tend to bring it back to his coaching (and also his predecessor).

 

[VeevaVee]

ETH was determined to do it his way but alot of the issues he's been struggling with...Ronaldo, Maguire being finished etc Ralf would have warned him about. We paid the price the first two games before ETH saw the same issues but credit to him he quickly benched them.

I don’t think it’s that simple though. He had to give them enough rope. He needs to keep the team harmony up as well. Giving everyone a chance and then playing whoever played best is a decent way to contribute to that.

 

[Samid]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

6 months later we are 10 points ahead of them. And we've done it by regularly starting 7-8 players who were here last season. Seems like we didn't need "10 new players" to turn it around and he was just trying to save face for having us in relegation form.

The best thing ETH did was cut this loser off immediately. Imagine if he was still around as a consultant and rambling like a defeatist madman in the press regularly.

 

[Bilbo]

People on the cafe have trouble letting things go, don't they?

 

[Lyng]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

6 months later we are 10 points ahead of them. And we've done it by regularly starting 7-8 players who were here last season. Seems like we didn't need "10 new players" to turn it around and he was just trying to save face for having us in relegation form.

The best thing ETH did was cut this loser off immediately. Imagine if he was still around as a consultant and rambling like a defeatist madman in the press regularly.

Insert Frozen gif.....

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

6 months later we are 10 points ahead of them. And we've done it by regularly starting 7-8 players who were here last season. Seems like we didn't need "10 new players" to turn it around and he was just trying to save face for having us in relegation form.

The best thing ETH did was cut this loser off immediately. Imagine if he was still around as a consultant and rambling like a defeatist madman in the press regularly.

I think it’s an easy time to stick the knife in

Ten Hag will tell you that United still need major investment and loads to sort out. Otherwise, even if they finish 1-3rd this season, they’ll steeply fall again

Personally I think Bellingham this summer is an absolute must. Even before a Striker. Especially if Liverpool and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 and United don’t. Take advantage

 

[IrishRedDevil]

I think it’s an easy time to stick the knife in

Ten Hag will tell you that United still need major investment and loads to sort out. Otherwise, even if they finish 1-3rd this season, they’ll steeply fall again

Personally I think Bellingham this summer is an absolute must. Even before a Striker. Especially if Liverpool and Chelsea finish outside the top 4 and United don’t. Take advantage

Not being cheeky, but can you please explain what £100m Bellingham adds to this team?
Who‘s position does he take?
Casemiro, Fernandes and Eriksen are all doing well in a 3, so I just want to understand where Bellingham plays.
I think an elite striker (Kane or Osimhen) would be a smarter buy in the summer.

 

[Leftback99]

Thanks for the reminder. To think we're struggling for funds in January and it cost us the best part of £15m to sack this clown, Chris Armas, a couple of scouts and probably a few quid for the fella that did video analysis for him in Moscow.

*Edited for those that were annoyed by the headline £15m figure.

 

[Kag]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

6 months later we are 10 points ahead of them. And we've done it by regularly starting 7-8 players who were here last season. Seems like we didn't need "10 new players" to turn it around and he was just trying to save face for having us in relegation form.

The best thing ETH did was cut this loser off immediately. Imagine if he was still around as a consultant and rambling like a defeatist madman in the press regularly.

We did need ten players from the squad Ten Hag inherited. We’ve added five first team signings, as well as a loan signing in Weghorst. We still need a striker, a midfielder and in all likelihood another centre half and a right back.

It’s easy to get all carried away at the moment, but the reality is that we’re an injury or two to the likes of Casemiro, Varane and Rashford away to being back up shit creek with halfwits like McTominay and Lindelof in the team.

 

[Lyng]

Not being cheeky, but can you please explain what £100m Bellingham adds to this team?
Who‘s position does he take?
Casemiro, Fernandes and Eriksen are all doing well in a 3, so I just want to understand where Bellingham plays.
I think an elite striker (Kane or Osimhen) would be a smarter buy in the summer.

They work well together against teams where we are in control. But against teams like City we are forced to add Fred to get more defensive cover, which means we switch Bruno to the wing where he doesnt work.
Neither Eriksen nor Bruno is particularly press resistant and our midfield desperately lacks that. Bellingham or De Jong are extremely press resistant and would lift us a level above. Then Eriksen could work as a back up both for the 8 or Bruno and suddenly our squad is much better.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Not being cheeky, but can you please explain what £100m Bellingham adds to this team?
Who‘s position does he take?
Casemiro, Fernandes and Eriksen are all doing well in a 3, so I just want to understand where Bellingham plays.
I think an elite striker (Kane or Osimhen) would be a smarter buy in the summer.

We need a top CM and striker still, I think that's quite clear. Eriksen has done extremely well and brought some much-needed technique to our midfield but it's clear he's not a natural 8 in a pivot. Gets dominated physically and played out of games too often, and I think ETH has realized that Eriksen-Casemiro can't be our pivot against big teams. A player like De Jong or Bellingham (quite different players to be fair) would elevate us almost as much as Kane or Osimhen would.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Casemiro is not exactly a Rangnick-style signing.

 

[charlenefan]

Just as I was forgetting this clown

 

[arthurka]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

6 months later we are 10 points ahead of them. And we've done it by regularly starting 7-8 players who were here last season. Seems like we didn't need "10 new players" to turn it around and he was just trying to save face for having us in relegation form.

The best thing ETH did was cut this loser off immediately. Imagine if he was still around as a consultant and rambling like a defeatist madman in the press regularly.

Just pointing out we got 4 starters and have already added the fifth new player into the squad. Adding to that Liverpool have lost the same amount of points as they did the whole last season. He was no Nostradamus but what he said about the ten players wasn't wrong, ETH has even spoken about two to three transfer window to get this right. We are grinding it out but I still feel we are not even close to how ETH wants us to play.

 

[pascell]

Thanks for the reminder. To think we're struggling for funds in January and it cost us £15m to sack this clown.

He's living rent free in your head isn't he. How did it cost us £15m to sack an interim manager turned part time consultant, any info to back that up?

 

[Pronewbie]

Too many still in denial that they bought into his propaganda hook, line and sinker. I've had to vet, manage and work with plenty of vendors in my line of work that I can probably detect a snake oil salesman better than most.

The contradiction between Rangnick's profile and his actual managerial accomplishments are glaringly obvious.

 

[stefan92]

Casemiro is not exactly a Rangnick-style signing.

True, but signing some excellent DM was obviously necessary. Rangnick would propably have gone for a younger player, bu the key point that new players were (and are) needed still stays true.

 

[horsechoker]

We did need ten players from the squad Ten Hag inherited. We’ve added five first team signings, as well as a loan signing in Weghorst. We still need a striker, a midfielder and in all likelihood another centre half and a right back.

It’s easy to get all carried away at the moment, but the reality is that we’re an injury or two to the likes of Casemiro, Varane and Rashford away to being back up shit creek with halfwits like McTominay and Lindelof in the team.

This

He's still right in a sense that we need several transfer windows to have a proper team that competes for titles year in, year out. How the club goes about player acquisitions also needs to change and it does seem to be now after a lot of errors.

RR was most likely being conservative and realistic in his estimation of what it would take to get United back to the top. He wasn't the man to do it though.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We've gone from a season of Ole and Ralf (the Chuckle Brothers) to this! Amazing how we turned things around by actually appointing a top class modern manager.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not being cheeky, but can you please explain what £100m Bellingham adds to this team?
Who‘s position does he take?
Casemiro, Fernandes and Eriksen are all doing well in a 3, so I just want to understand where Bellingham plays.
I think an elite striker (Kane or Osimhen) would be a smarter buy in the summer.

Yeah, nah, I would rather let someone else piss 100+ million up the wall on Bellingham.

 

[stevoc]

Just pointing out we got 4 starters and have already added the fifth new player into the squad. Adding to that Liverpool have lost the same amount of points as they did the whole last season. He was no Nostradamus but what he said about the ten players wasn't wrong, ETH has even spoken about two to three transfer window to get this right. We are grinding it out but I still feel we are not even close to how ETH wants us to play.

Yeah what he said wouldn't be wrong about most teams most of the time. The only difference is some United fans jumped on his comments and blew them out of proportion to fit their narrative that we needed a new starting 11.

 

[Leftback99]

He's living rent free in your head isn't he. How did it cost us £15m to sack an interim manager turned part time consultant, any info to back that up?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

[stefan92]

The contradiction between Rangnick's profile and his actual managerial accomplishments are glaringly obvious.

Only if you misinterpret his profile, which a lot of people here seem to do.

What is his reputation based on? Making some new concepts known to the broad public in Germany and applying them well at lower level clubs, and building clubs from scratch. He had one good season at Leipzig and half a good season at Schalke in the Bundesliga, the rest wasn't special when he managed there.

He never had a reputation as a very successful manager, especially not as an interim. Let's just say the general reaction in Germany was surprise that he got signed as an interim, based on his profile it was expected that if he is signed at all, he would be signed to sort out the board, not the team on the pitch.

 

[pascell]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

"United then spent a further £14.7million in exceptional items in the three months until June 30, 2022, and while club sources said that included pay-off figures to football and non-football staff, a significant sum went to Rangnick."

The sum isn't even £15m to start with and it also included paying off others, so Rangnick didn't get paid £15m.

 

[Leftback99]

"United then spent a further £14.7million in exceptional items in the three months until June 30, 2022, and while club sources said that included pay-off figures to football and non-football staff, a significant sum went to Rangnick."

The sum isn't even £15m to start with and it also included paying off others, so Rangnick didn't get paid £15m.

Half it if it makes you feel better but I don't know who else you think cost millions to get rid of. At least your man Ralf isn't still here though.

 

[Morpheus 7]

The issue I had with Ragnick was simple. He was never accountable for his failings. It was always easy to point out all the failings of the team, they were a disgrace but he was there to manage too. He improved nobody and legacy is bringing Elanga in, that's it. Easy to throw the entire team under the bus after an embarrassing result. He was not up to the task, he kept some fans on side with his 'honest' interviews. He was awful.

 

[pascell]

Half it if it makes you feel better but I don't know who else you think cost millions to get rid of. At least your man Ralf isn't still here though.

I just find it funny that you read something, built your own narrative, kept it in there until now and used it for your agenda against the guy and now blame his compensation on the reason why we can't buy someone in the transfer window. RAWK level, keep it coming.

Edit: you even read it wrong too, even better.

 

[TheReligion]

Half it if it makes you feel better but I don't know who else you think cost millions to get rid of. At least your man Ralf isn't still here though.

Huh?

United got rid of Rangnick and SEVERAL other members of staff, including Marcel Bout and Jim Lawlor.

Around that period there was a clear out of a number of different staff members and the £14.7 figure is the combined total for all.
Rangnick didn’t work out but no need to be such a liar.

 

[Leftback99]

I just find it funny that you read something, built your own narrative, kept it in there until now and used it for your agenda against the guy and now blame his compensation on the reason why we can't buy someone in the transfer window. RAWK level, keep it coming.

Edit: you even read it wrong too, even better.

Some stretching there. I know it's hard he's not the hero you thought he was, get over it.

 

[Lyng]

Some stretching there. I know it's hard he's not the hero you thought he was, get over it.

Sound more like you need to get over it. He is gone and he wasnt good enough. Thats all there is to it.

 

[RopersReturn]

In many ways it was an important step we needed to detoxify the Ole, Morinho eras. Ralf was able to diagnose the problems we had and still have, with the mishmash of players available.