Ralph Hasenhüttl

[tomaldinho1]

Southampton really should be in a relegation fight to be honest, their squad isn't exactly good is it?

take JWP and Ings out of that team and they are bang average all over.

If anything it's been Hassenhuttl's pressing that actually got them to be recognised as a half decent side. Not their quality that's for sure.

Also think of these two players (and others like Romeu, who is now out for the whole season, Bertrand, Walcott, Redmond etc) prior to Hasenhuttl. Some people like to put him down and the big losses are definitely question marks against his name but he clearly can coach a team into playing his style and the fact they started so well shouldn't count against him. They are a relegation fighting team who then lost their captain and I think they'll comfortably survive this season.

Ole's Cardiff conceded 42 goals in 18 games whereas even with the 9-0 Hasenhuttl is on 44 from 26...you have to judge the coaches like Hasenhuttl, Potter, Bilic, Parker, Wilder, Dyche in a completely different way to any team with money and a half decent squad. Poch at Espanol got sacked after a terrible run of something crazy like 9 points from 39 and he now manages PSG. For me it's about seeing a coach who can implement a style with a weaker team and then a big club takes the risk on them, it doesn't always work out but I'd be surprised if he's not managing a team in the CL in the next few years.

 

[The Corinthian]

Both times they were playing almost full game with 10 men. It only means they are incapable of playing well while down to 10 men, which is true for nearly all teams.

The 1 point in 9 games is much more concerning than 9-0. Even that loss to Newcastle who were down to 10 men for half of that game was more concerning than 9-0 was.

I take your point, but there's loads of instances where teams go a man down and don't end up losing 9-0. And yes, the 1 point in 27 is a much larger concern than the 9-0.

 

[do.ob]

9-0 is a big embarrassment to be fair. I agree it doesn't really matter that much though, I'd prefer to lose 9-0 once but grind out good results in 5 other games rather than lose 1-0 five times and win the other game 5-0, of course. We lost 6-1 to Spurs while down to 10 men and it seems almost meaningless now.

Sure it's bad and it gives the media some ammunition in the upcoming days. But reading some posts you could get the impression that it's like having a criminal record, something that will haunt you for the rest of your career.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The latest in a growing line of 'he presses so he must be a top coach' types that the cafe just loves to fall in love with

He's a decent manager, but the caf has a strange cult-like fetish towards him.

 

[Tottenhamguy]

[

Since that Liverpool game their form is 0-1-8. It’s pretty horrific going there. I think Walcott is the only major injury at the moment too — they just need to start grabbing points where they can. They’re in total free fall at the moment.

KWP has been a big miss for them as well, He has been playing really well this season.[/QUOTE]

 

[Cheimoon]

I take your point, but there's loads of instances where teams go a man down and don't end up losing 9-0. And yes, the 1 point in 27 is a much larger concern than the 9-0.

But i guess the point here is: what's the practical difference between losing 1-0 or 9-0? It's extremely unlikely that Southampton's fate will come down to goal difference, so in terms of league outcomes, the 9-0 doesn't really affect the club. I suppose there might be issues on the mental side (indicating a lack of resilience, or weighing heavily on the team afterwards), but more generally, I think the problem might largely be in fans' heads because of the way it may affect them socially or psychologically.

 

[RUCK4444]

Remember when posters wanted to replace Ole with him... never change caf, never change.

 

[acnumber9]

Not when your playing with 10 players for 90 minutes, and conceding 3 of those when you are playing with 9 players.

It still is. Newcastle played against them with 9 for longer and they couldn’t even score.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Also think of these two players (and others like Romeu, who is now out for the whole season, Bertrand, Walcott, Redmond etc) prior to Hasenhuttl. Some people like to put him down and the big losses are definitely question marks against his name but he clearly can coach a team into playing his style and the fact they started so well shouldn't count against him. They are a relegation fighting team who then lost their captain and I think they'll comfortably survive this season.

Ole's Cardiff conceded 42 goals in 18 games whereas even with the 9-0 Hasenhuttl is on 44 from 26...you have to judge the coaches like Hasenhuttl, Potter, Bilic, Parker, Wilder, Dyche in a completely different way to any team with money and a half decent squad. Poch at Espanol got sacked after a terrible run of something crazy like 9 points from 39 and he now manages PSG. For me it's about seeing a coach who can implement a style with a weaker team and then a big club takes the risk on them, it doesn't always work out but I'd be surprised if he's not managing a team in the CL in the next few years.

Agreed with that. Some styles just work better with higher quality players.

you can say his style has perhaps burnt Southampton out, but he definitely had them playing above average.

I think with a bigger squad and better players he could be a real force - I’m surprised somebody like dortmund didn’t go after him.

 

[acnumber9]

But i guess the point here is: what's the practical difference between losing 1-0 or 9-0? It's extremely unlikely that Southampton's fate will come down to goal difference, so in terms of league outcomes, the 9-0 doesn't really affect the club. I suppose there might be issues on the mental side (indicating a lack of resilience, or weighing heavily on the team afterwards), but more generally, I think the problem might largely be in fans' heads because of the way it may affect them socially or psychologically.

It’s definitely the mental side. Southampton started acting like children after the penalty. It’s not a good sign for them that they respond to adversity like that.

 

[roonster09]

Not when your playing with 10 players for 90 minutes, and conceding 3 of those when you are playing with 9 players.

2, not 3. It was a penalty.

 

[Grande]

Also think of these two players (and others like Romeu, who is now out for the whole season, Bertrand, Walcott, Redmond etc) prior to Hasenhuttl. Some people like to put him down and the big losses are definitely question marks against his name but he clearly can coach a team into playing his style and the fact they started so well shouldn't count against him. They are a relegation fighting team who then lost their captain and I think they'll comfortably survive this season.

Ole's Cardiff conceded 42 goals in 18 games whereas even with the 9-0 Hasenhuttl is on 44 from 26...you have to judge the coaches like Hasenhuttl, Potter, Bilic, Parker, Wilder, Dyche in a completely different way to any team with money and a half decent squad. Poch at Espanol got sacked after a terrible run of something crazy like 9 points from 39 and he now manages PSG. For me it's about seeing a coach who can implement a style with a weaker team and then a big club takes the risk on them, it doesn't always work out but I'd be surprised if he's not managing a team in the CL in the next few years.

I like Hasenhüttl as a coach, and hope he does well. As always the debate is a bit polarized, ranging from the undocumented ‘he’d do better than Ole’ when we draw a game to the predictable ‘he’s a fraud’ when we beat them.

Truth is somewhere in between. Southampton has been among the best run clubs in England for a decade at least, and is not comparable to Cardiff under that lunatic Tan. Nor is it comparable to United nor Dortmund. And there’s the rub. Until Solskjær got the United job, we knew he could win a youth league while developing PL quality players, we knew he could do wonders in a small league and make a minion punch above their weight in Europe, we didn’t know if he could run a billion pound club with a staff of 100 people or so, in need of a build up, to the top of the game. Only now we know he could do that, and we still don’t know wether he can do that last step and make a top club into the best.

Hasenhüttl, we know can implement a characteristic style with both a good squad and a just okish squad, to punch above their weight for periods in the league. If he could manage the same with a rotation of more talented players and have them function with a plan b and c as well as plan a, and grind out victories from losses when form is bad, we have no idea, and there’s not much point pretending we do.

I too would be interested in watching him at a club like Dortmund or Inter, to see if his capacity is that of a Kloppish Cinderella waiting for the pumpkin carriage or that of a fashionably dressed Moyes. If you can stomach that image.

 

[The Corinthian]

But i guess the point here is: what's the practical difference between losing 1-0 or 9-0? It's extremely unlikely that Southampton's fate will come down to goal difference, so in terms of league outcomes, the 9-0 doesn't really affect the club. I suppose there might be issues on the mental side (indicating a lack of resilience, or weighing heavily on the team afterwards), but more generally, I think the problem might largely be in fans' heads because of the way it may affect them socially or psychologically.

I think there is some knock on, psychological effect that does come into play after such a heavy defeat. Maybe we as fans over amplify it, however. In the grand scheme of things though, as you mention, there isn't much difference from a heavy loss to a 1 or 2-0 loss.

 

[tenpoless]

Ralph hazelnut is a good manager but will he fit a big club nobody knows

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ralph hazelnut is a good manager but will he fit a big club nobody knows

I thought it was well established these days that if you can play a high press that burns players out or leaves you open at the back with a small teamthen it stands to reason, with more money and a better squad you’d win the league.

 

[pocco]

Remember when posters wanted to replace Ole with him... never change caf, never change.

One coaches United, the other Southampton. As many have said, the team that they have is average at best - his main plaudits come from getting such an average team playing good football (until recent form).

A more apt comparison would be Hasenhuttl and Ole at Cardiff, but I doubt you want to go down that road. If Ole is as good as you think he is, then his time at Cardiff would show that you're a fool to write off Hasenhuttl.

 

[RUCK4444]

One coaches United, the other Southampton. As many have said, the team that they have is average at best - his main plaudits come from getting such an average team playing good football (until recent form).

A more apt comparison would be Hasenhuttl and Ole at Cardiff, but I doubt you want to go down that road. If Ole is as good as you think he is, then his time at Cardiff would show that you're a fool to write off Hasenhuttl.

Yeah... it's absolutely nothing like comparing Ole at Cardiff. Prime SAF would not have kept that Cardiff team in the league at the point he took over. Southampton have been an established mid-table PL team for years.

And I don't remember too many 9-0 thrashings at the City Stadium even though they've been whipping boys every time they've entered the PL. I know, I live down the road from the stadium and have to take customers to games, for my sins.

 

[Zlatan 7]

One coaches United, the other Southampton. As many have said, the team that they have is average at best - his main plaudits come from getting such an average team playing good football (until recent form).

A more apt comparison would be Hasenhuttl and Ole at Cardiff, but I doubt you want to go down that road. If Ole is as good as you think he is, then his time at Cardiff would show that you're a fool to write off Hasenhuttl.

Cardiff and Man Utd are two different clubs with different expectations, only a fool would ignore that. Don’t make out like pep could have gone and saved that football club from relegation with his super coaching. Managing a team near relegation and team at the top are worlds apart and can’t be compared. Unless you want to put someone down that is of course.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Salisu has looked class. Definitely worth a punt

 

[Champ]

Salisu has looked class. Definitely worth a punt

He got destroyed by Calvert Lewin, absolutely destroyed.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He got destroyed by Calvert Lewin, absolutely destroyed.

Young player learning the game.It's not as if our CBs have been faultless.Against Wolves and chelsea he was very assured and didn't make any errors. He's way above Axel

 

[Champ]

Young player learning the game.It's not as if our CBs have been faultless.Against Wolves and chelsea he was very assured and didn't make any errors. He's way above Axel

Maybe, but he's not what United need at all.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I like Hasenhüttl as a coach, and hope he does well. As always the debate is a bit polarized, ranging from the undocumented ‘he’d do better than Ole’ when we draw a game to the predictable ‘he’s a fraud’ when we beat them.

Truth is somewhere in between. Southampton has been among the best run clubs in England for a decade at least, and is not comparable to Cardiff under that lunatic Tan. Nor is it comparable to United nor Dortmund. And there’s the rub. Until Solskjær got the United job, we knew he could win a youth league while developing PL quality players, we knew he could do wonders in a small league and make a minion punch above their weight in Europe, we didn’t know if he could run a billion pound club with a staff of 100 people or so, in need of a build up, to the top of the game. Only now we know he could do that, and we still don’t know wether he can do that last step and make a top club into the best.

Hasenhüttl, we know can implement a characteristic style with both a good squad and a just okish squad, to punch above their weight for periods in the league. If he could manage the same with a rotation of more talented players and have them function with a plan b and c as well as plan a, and grind out victories from losses when form is bad, we have no idea, and there’s not much point pretending we do.

I too would be interested in watching him at a club like Dortmund or Inter, to see if his capacity is that of a Kloppish Cinderella waiting for the pumpkin carriage or that of a fashionably dressed Moyes. If you can stomach that image.

I agree there's a weird cult on here that seem to relish him struggling and then a counter group who back him too much - the reality is our only experience of him in the PL is with So'ton and so it's bizarre to even pretend we should compare United and them. However, for me, you can't really compare his pre So'ton experience with Ole pre United, he'd managed successfully in the BL and had CL experience.

I also agree with your point about So'ton being well run but I think that takes away from how difficult it is for a coach to 'succeed' in the eyes of neutral fans there. Their business model is excellent but I'm not sure it's actually beneficial for a manager if the aim is to finish as high as possible in the league, their setup is geared towards long term PL survival and then developing and selling players. If I look at their team from a completely unbiased perspective, they have one of the thinnest and weakest teams in the PL - any player of real quality is taken from them (this affects all their coaches not just Hasenhuttl) and they are never replaced: Hojberg, Tadic, Soares, Van Dijk, Mane, Lallana, Wanyama have all left in the last what 4 years and you can argue a number of them are genuinely world class players.

I'm of the opinion that football doesn't really have any managers any more at the highest level, you have a large management team and then you have the coaching staff. That is why the successful coaches of recent times tend to be tactically innovative or dogmatic in their approach, as teams get more even from a sports science and general fitness perspective you either have to outspend your rivals or out think them, ideally both. The managers people rate now are all hands on and highly tactical (Allegri, Conte, Simeone, Pep, Klopp, Poch even people like Gasperini, Tuchel, Nagelsmann) you simply have to be well versed in a style (and there are many) and be able to transfer that style to players to have any kind of chance. Hasenhuttl unequivocally ticks this box and so the risk is there - look at Koeman at Everton - but then so is the potential reward for a bigger club who can give him a deeper squad.

Pumpkin carriage rolls up, the crowd wait with baited breath, the door opens and a veiny and hairy leg steps out wearing high heeled glittering heels....it's Rebekah Vardy David Moyes!

 

[acnumber9]

As many have said, the team that they have is average at best

And they get average results. Which makes the clamour for him a little strange.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Maybe, but he's not what United need at all.

So we don't need a young quick andathletic CB...great

 

[tenpoless]

I thought it was well established these days that if you can play a high press that burns players out or leaves you open at the back with a small teamthen it stands to reason, with more money and a better squad you’d win the league.

Then you would spend all the money and probably still be open at the back with a big team

 

[Adam-Utd]

He got destroyed by Calvert Lewin, absolutely destroyed.

Many defenders have this season, he's a very good striker now.

 

[pocco]

Yeah... it's absolutely nothing like comparing Ole at Cardiff. Prime SAF would not have kept that Cardiff team in the league at the point he took over. Southampton have been an established mid-table PL team for years.

And I don't remember too many 9-0 thrashings at the City Stadium even though they've been whipping boys every time they've entered the PL. I know, I live down the road from the stadium and have to take customers to games, for my sins.

It's more comparable than Southampton vs United. Especially in terms of squad value. He took Cardiff from the PL to the bottom of the Championship...I don't care how you try to frame it, it was a complete failure on Ole's part. However, now he's at United he is apparently good enough to be here, even though he got the job without merit. Nobody asked for Ole prior to us giving him the job, yet now he is good enough. You can't, therefore, say that Hasenhuttl wouldn't make a good job of it at a top club. You can derive the good things from what he's done and say that, it is reasonable to say he could do well with better players.

Cardiff and Man Utd are two different clubs with different expectations, only a fool would ignore that. Don’t make out like pep could have gone and saved that football club from relegation with his super coaching. Managing a team near relegation and team at the top are worlds apart and can’t be compared. Unless you want to put someone down that is of course.

How do you know he couldn't? He might have picked better players within the budget. Only a fool would try to say that one of the greatest managers ever, known to coach his players to a higher degree than Ole, couldn't do a better job.

I don't know why I'm arguing against such ridiculous POV's. Waste of time. Besides, you missed the point but proved mine. Southampton and United are two different clubs with different expectations.

And they get average results. Which makes the clamour for him a little strange.

It's not always black and white. They have had bad injuries, multiple suspensions, bad form and just an average squad overall. Granted they have been poor over the last month, but it's not exactly unexpected for Southampton. Good managers are often recognised not just by their results, Jurgen Klopp, for example.

 

[acnumber9]

It's not always black and white. They have had bad injuries, multiple suspensions, bad form and just an average squad overall. Granted they have been poor over the last month, but it's not exactly unexpected for Southampton. Good managers are often recognised not just by their results, Jurgen Klopp, for example.

Nothing they’ve achieved under him is particularly unexpected for Southampton either. They’ve had Danny Ings scoring goals left and right for the past 18 months. That goes a long way in that part of the table. Of course, you could say that’s the managers influence. He’s an ok manager doing an ok job.

The gung ho pressing is just the fad so those who do it get a little overrated I think. If you’re over reliant on that though, I don’t think that makes you a great coach. What do you do when it’s not in vogue anymore? What does he do when he’s no longer able to just copy what his old boss used to do?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Nothing they’ve achieved under him is particularly unexpected for Southampton either. They’ve had Danny Ings scoring goals left and right for the past 18 months. That goes a long way in that part of the table. Of course, you could say that’s the managers influence. He’s an ok manager doing an ok job.

The gung ho pressing is just the fad so those who do it get a little overrated I think. If you’re over reliant on that though, I don’t think that makes you a great coach. What do you do when it’s not in vogue anymore? What does he do when he’s no longer able to just copy what his old boss used to do?

Wasn't he assistant to Lorant? What on earth does he have to do with So'ton?

 

[acnumber9]

Wasn't he assistant to Lorant? What on earth does he have to do with So'ton?

I thought he was a coach for Klopp but I may be wrong on that.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I don't understand why people are treating squad injuries and lack of depth as excuses for him. Its an utterly dumb way to play a high pressing manic style of football in a shortened season with a weak squad, managers like Klopp and the rest of his ilk contribute to the injuries their players suffer.

 

[roonster09]

Tbf he is good coach and he showed how good he can be. He got some very poor results which will be held against him but they bounced back so well last season. He should move on from Southampton to bit more ambitious club.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I thought he was a coach for Klopp but I may be wrong on that.

They're mates and studied their badges together, neither worked for the other. You might be confusing him with Tuchel (who didn't work for Klopp but followed his exact path from Mainz to Dortmund).

 

[RUCK4444]

It's more comparable than Southampton vs United. Especially in terms of squad value. He took Cardiff from the PL to the bottom of the Championship...I don't care how you try to frame it, it was a complete failure on Ole's part. However, now he's at United he is apparently good enough to be here, even though he got the job without merit. Nobody asked for Ole prior to us giving him the job, yet now he is good enough. You can't, therefore, say that Hasenhuttl wouldn't make a good job of it at a top club. You can derive the good things from what he's done and say that, it is reasonable to say he could do well with better players.

I wouldn’t say it is. There is far more pressure trying to keep an awful, awful team in the PL than there is at a mid table club like Southampton who are just happy to be in the league. What pressure is there at Southampton? They are very well run, never really in danger of getting relegated, decent squad and youth setup, and if they go on a good run you get a pat on the back. They have had decent spells under multiple managers.

Likewise the pressure at United is infinitely more than Southampton.

Have you seen that Cardiff team? And more importantly the owner, who at that time was at his pinnacle of shithousery, Cardiff are continually on a constant cycle of destruction, it was the absolutely worst possible job for Ole to take on at that time. Absolute hiding to nothing, no matter who the manager.

That’s not me making excuses for Ole, I don’t believe any manager was keeping that Cardiff side in the PL. How they were promoted in the first place beggars belief tbh.

 

[pocco]

Nothing they’ve achieved under him is particularly unexpected for Southampton either. They’ve had Danny Ings scoring goals left and right for the past 18 months. That goes a long way in that part of the table. Of course, you could say that’s the managers influence. He’s an ok manager doing an ok job.

The gung ho pressing is just the fad so those who do it get a little overrated I think. If you’re over reliant on that though, I don’t think that makes you a great coach. What do you do when it’s not in vogue anymore? What does he do when he’s no longer able to just copy what his old boss used to do?

They do much more than pressing well. Off the ball movement, ball retention even under pressure. I don't think he's limited to pressing and some games they have played well without pressing. Obviously not a good time to be trying to defend them or him, but I'm not the reactive type that will just change my opinion on a whim.

 

[pocco]

I wouldn’t say it is. There is far more pressure trying to keep an awful, awful team in the PL than there is at a mid table club like Southampton who are just happy to be in the league. What pressure is there at Southampton? They are never really in danger of getting relegated, decent squad and youth setup, and if they go on a good run you get a pat on the back. They have had decent spells under multiple managers.

Likewise the pressure at United is infinitely more than Southampton.

Have you seen that Cardiff team? And more importantly the owner, who at that time was at his pinnacle of shithousery, Cardiff are continually on a constant cycle of destruction, it was the absolutely worst possible job for Ole to take on at that time. Absolute hiding to nothing, no matter who the manager.

That’s not me making excuses for Ole, I don’t believe any manager was keeping that Cardiff side in the PL. How they were promoted in the first place beggars belief tbh.

Well I disagree that it was an impossible job. I'm pretty sure Ole brought in plenty of players so, ultimately, he is rightly judged on his time there. If the shoe was on the other foot and Hasenhuttl had overseen that spell then I'm sure it would be brought up. Ole said himself he should have done better after the bad run in the Championship.

 

[RUCK4444]

Well I disagree that it was an impossible job. I'm pretty sure Ole brought in plenty of players so, ultimately, he is rightly judged on his time there. If the shoe was on the other foot and Hasenhuttl had overseen that spell then I'm sure it would be brought up. Ole said himself he should have done better after the bad run in the Championship.

Of course he needs to take his share of the blame. But you have to factor in Tan the owner, just look at the guy, he's insane and basically buys the players and chooses the starting 11, changing the club colours from Blue to Red etc. He's taken a step back somewhat since then but he was mental and the structure at the club was a shambles. I fully expect them to implode after this new manager bounce their having.

But it was impossible, every bit as hard as West Brom staying up this season, and then some.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Tbf he is good coach and he showed how good he can be. He got some very poor results which will be held against him but they bounced back so well last season. He should move on from Southampton to bit more ambitious club.

Spurs/Everton all over it when the time comes.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Spurs/Everton all over it when the time comes.

I doubt looking at his record at present that Spurs are going to trust him after appointing Jose. They'll be after a big or up and coming hipster