Ralph Hasenhüttl

andersj

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What ? Nothing changed fundamentally? The owners has become less ambitious and has not been spending as they used to.

21/22 - net spend of -15m (spent 43m)
20/21 - net spend of -87m (spent 37m)
19/20 - net spend of -40m (spent 60m)
18/19 - net spend of +13m (spent 62m)
17/18 - net spend of +31m (spent 61m)
16/17 - net spend of +13m (spent 68m)
15/16 - net spend of -9m (spent 60m)
14/15 - net spend of +16m (spent 96m)


Look at the numbers. The business model has changed completely in the last 8 years. If you compare the points and finishes

20/21 - 43 points (15th , 46 goals scored)
19/20 - 52 points (11th , 51 goals scored)
18/19 - 39 points (16th, 45 goals scored)
17/18 - 36 points (17th, 37 goals scored)
16/17 - 46 points (8th, 41 goals scored)
15/16 - 63 points (6th, 59 goals scored)
14/15 - 60 points (7th, 54 goals scored )

The spending has gone up in epl but Southampton has reduced their spending.

Hassenhuttl is doing a much better job than Poch or Koeman or Puel. It's not even up for a debate.
Where do you get these numbers from? They dont look right.

According to TM they invested £32 mill and sold players for £23,67 mill in 20/21. A negative net spend of £8-9 mill. In 19/20 they bought players for £55 mil and sold players for £25 mill. A negative net spend of £30 mill. In his first two seasons. They spent less than they invested this season. Just like they have done in the past. But there is very little to say that there has been a shift in approach since 2014.

If you look at the numbers at TM they invested a bit in 12 and 13 (net). Like most newly promoted teams do. Aftet that, they have always been a selling club. In the period from 2014 to 2019 (when Hassenhuttl came in) they basically spent (net) approx £25-35 mill. An average of £5-7 mill a year.

Furthermore, look at their wage structure. They are more or less at the same position at the «wage table» they have always been. Probably even higher than their first few years in the PL (12-14).

So in summary, they are more or less at the same place they have been since 2014. They dont invest more than they sell for, they are slightly below midttable in terms of wages and they are in the range from 15th to 10th on the table.
 
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bond19821982

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Where do you get these numbers from? They dont look right.

According to TM they invested £32 mill and sold players for £23,67 mill in 20/21. A negative net spend of £8-9 mill. If you look at the numbers at TM they invested a bit in 12 and 13 (net). Like most newly promoted teams do. Aftet that, they have always been a selling club. In the period from 2014 to 2019 (when Hassenhuttl came in) they basically spent (net) approx £25-35 mill. An average of £5-7 mill a year. They have spent more, on average, since Hassenhuttl came in.

Furthermore, look at their wage structure. They are more or less at the same position at the «wage table» they have always been. Probably even higher than their first few years in the PL (12-14).
The numbers aren't off. They signed Adam A for 17m, Perraud for 12m, Lyanco for 8m and Livramento for 6m - 43m.

Sold Ings, Vestergaard, Hunn,Lemina,Obefami for 58m.
Net Spend = -15

I don't know how exactly can you say they are on the same position since they came back. Been spending less and running on negative net spend, for the last 3 years. Hassenhuttl has had less resources to work than other managers.

The numbers and facts are above. Feel free to check for yourselves.
 

andersj

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The numbers aren't off. They signed Adam A for 17m, Perraud for 12m, Lyanco for 8m and Livramento for 6m - 43m.

Sold Ings, Vestergaard, Hunn,Lemina,Obefami for 58m.
Net Spend = -15

I don't know how exactly can you say they are on the same position since they came back. Been spending less and running on negative net spend, for the last 3 years. Hassenhuttl has had less resources to work than other managers.

The numbers and facts are above. Feel free to check for yourselves.
I’ve looked at Transfermarkt and their annual reports. There is very little to support your claim that they have spent a lot less during Hassenhuttls time there than what they did in the period from 14 to 18/19.

Yes, they spent more from 2012 to 2014, like newly promoted teams do. Aftet that? Not true. Here is a few reports from Swiss Ramble from the period showing that they have always spent very little.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2015/11/southampton-with-or-without-you.html?m=1



Their wage cost have actually increased compared to other PL-teams. The biggest difference is that they manage to make less money on player sales than they used to.

Their league finish since they were promoted:

12/13 - 14th
13/14 - 8th
14/15 - 7th
15/16 - 6th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 17th
18/19 - 16th*
19/20 - 11th
20/21 - 15th


*He was hired in the middle of the season.

They spent more due to selling for more. Maybe they got lucky with a few players in the past like van Dijk, Mane, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren etc and that allowed to invest a bit more. But that was also reflected in higher league positions.

So far under Hassenhuttl they have ended up where you would expect with there resources. Between 15th and 10th. Any thing below would be underperformance. To really impress he would have to take them back to 6th to 8th, in my opinion. If you are trying to make the argument that they should be 15th to 20th based on resources we can agree on disagree.
 
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POF

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Any chance he had of getting the United job pretty much evaporated when he said that everyone knows the United players don't track back.

Rashy's media team says no.
 

stefan92

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Any chance he had of getting the United job pretty much evaporated when he said that everyone knows the United players don't track back.

Rashy's media team says no.
He won't get a job at a club where Rangnick has any influence, I think we can be sure about that after how he left Leipzig.
 

NicolaSacco

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Any chance he had of getting the United job pretty much evaporated when he said that everyone knows the United players don't track back.

Rashy's media team says no.
Did you actually watch that interview. What an odd take.
 

Northern_Saint

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I’ve looked at Transfermarkt and their annual reports. There is very little to support your claim that they have spent a lot less during Hassenhuttls time there than what they did in the period from 14 to 18/19.

Yes, they spent more from 2012 to 2014, like newly promoted teams do. Aftet that? Not true. Here is a few reports from Swiss Ramble from the period showing that they have always spent very little.


Their wage cost have actually increased compared to other PL-teams. The biggest difference is that they manage to make less money on player sales than they used to.

Their league finish since they were promoted:

12/13 - 14th
13/14 - 8th
14/15 - 7th
15/16 - 6th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 17th
18/19 - 16th*
19/20 - 11th
20/21 - 15th


*He was hired in the middle of the season.

They spent more due to selling for more. Maybe they got lucky with a few players in the past like van Dijk, Mane, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren etc and that allowed to invest a bit more. But that was also reflected in higher league positions.

So far under Hassenhuttl they have ended up where you would expect with there resources. Between 15th and 10th. Any thing below would be underperformance. To really impress he would have to take them back to 6th to 8th, in my opinion. If you are trying to make the argument that they should be 15th to 20th based on resources we can agree on disagree.
Hands up, I’m a Saints fan so a little bit biased but I think he’s a great manager and doing an incredible job with the resources he has been given. Will be a long post but think it’s important to give some context

When he took over, the club was in a terrible state - both on the field and off it. We had just came off the back of 3 failed managerial appointments (Puel - results were so/so but the football and mood at the club was dire - Pellergrino and Hughes), awful recruitment (more on this later) and we had been bought by a Chinese owner previously embroiled in corruption, who purchased us only to find he than had his money frozen back home resulting in zero investment.

Hasenhüttl took over mid to late November and no other team who had had that point tally at the time had ever stayed up - he kept us up relatively comfortably. 19-20 was an intersecting season with a terrible start but from December 2019 - January 2021, we went on a run which saw us in the European places form wise for over a calendar year and over 38 games playing some incredible football on the way. 2021 wasn’t a great year admittedly but results picked up a few games into this season and we find ourselves 10th, playing great football and getting some brilliant results against big teams.

All this has been done with zero investment into the club - over the last 5 years only Norwich have a lower net spend then us in the league and out of the teams who have been consistently in the league for those 5 years, only Palace have spent less - we’ve spent about 40 million more but have recouped about 150 million more in player sales.

As was pointed out above, our wages have increased but you need to look at where that money has been spent. Our recruitment from the 16/17 season to the 18/19 season was horrific. Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Carrillo where all brought in on big wages and barely played. We shipped them out on loan, paying a large % of the wages. Huge contracts were given to Frazer Forster and Shane Long for example who were then shipped out on loan or sat on the bench due to a collapse of form.We spent 12m on Angus Gunn, payed decent wages for him to be our 3rd choice keeper. We ended up with a hugely inflated wage bill with a squad devoid of talent which hamstrung us in recent years when we finally got a competent management team in place running the club (Martin Semmens, Matt Crocker, Ralph etc.).

We have spent a bit in the last couple of years but they have all been relatively low sums (10-15m) on young players who were far from the finished article (Walker-Peters, Che Adams, Tino, Salisu, Diallo) all in the low twenties or teens and Ralph has coached and improved them incredibly. JWP has gone from a player who couldn’t nail down a starting spot and didn’t know his best position to one of the best holding midfielders in the league alongside Romeu. Walker-Peters must be pound for pound one of the best signings in the league over the last few years. Che Adams us unrecognisable. Tino will be playing Champions League football in a couple of years. When these players do eventually leave - and we are well aware they will - it will be for a big profit and we once again have the recruitment team in place to replace them with equal or better players like we did with Paul Mitchell and Koeman in 2014.

This is probably the first time we can say it is truly Hasenhuttl’s team and the work on the training ground with young hungry players is paying off big. Would this work at a bigger club like United with the more well known players and the baggage that brings? I don’t honestly know and hopefully we won’t have to find out for a couple more years at least!
 
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bond19821982

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I’ve looked at Transfermarkt and their annual reports. There is very little to support your claim that they have spent a lot less during Hassenhuttls time there than what they did in the period from 14 to 18/19.

Yes, they spent more from 2012 to 2014, like newly promoted teams do. Aftet that? Not true. Here is a few reports from Swiss Ramble from the period showing that they have always spent very little.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2015/11/southampton-with-or-without-you.html?m=1



Their wage cost have actually increased compared to other PL-teams. The biggest difference is that they manage to make less money on player sales than they used to.

Their league finish since they were promoted:

12/13 - 14th
13/14 - 8th
14/15 - 7th
15/16 - 6th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 17th
18/19 - 16th*
19/20 - 11th
20/21 - 15th


*He was hired in the middle of the season.

They spent more due to selling for more. Maybe they got lucky with a few players in the past like van Dijk, Mane, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren etc and that allowed to invest a bit more. But that was also reflected in higher league positions.

So far under Hassenhuttl they have ended up where you would expect with there resources. Between 15th and 10th. Any thing below would be underperformance. To really impress he would have to take them back to 6th to 8th, in my opinion. If you are trying to make the argument that they should be 15th to 20th based on resources we can agree on disagree.
Mate, I don't need to see the Swiss reports and all. You are way off the topic now. The initial comment was that you said nothing has changed fundamentally with the way they operate. I just proved it with numbers that it's wrong. Feel free to believe whatever you want but the numbers are there to see for anyone.

Let's not go back in circles .
 

andersj

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Mate, I don't need to see the Swiss reports and all. You are way off the topic now. The initial comment was that you said nothing has changed fundamentally with the way they operate. I just proved it with numbers that it's wrong. Feel free to believe whatever you want but the numbers are there to see for anyone.

Let's not go back in circles .
Well, you did not. You appeared to be selective and inaccurate in your use of numbers.
 

Samid

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Not a good week for caf's favorite hipster. 3 losses against teams that were below them and 8 goals conceded. Ironically all three were against English managers.
 

Dolf

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Not a good week for caf's favorite hipster. 3 losses against teams that were below them and 8 goals conceded. Ironically all three were against English managers.
You can’t win a match if your starting striker is name Smallbone.
 

90 + 5min

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A terrible manager, how anyone could want him at this club is beyond me
People love managers that show emotions at games regardless of how good a manager is. What the same people don't understand is that showing emotions can sometimes be a way to hide flaws. Average manager. Maybe he could do better slightly better job in bigger clubs but he is little bit naive in his football and the way he wants his team to play. Losing two games with 9-0 says it all.
 

Samid

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With Bielsa gone, is Ralph the new manager for the Caf to overly-aggressively have a pop at?
Not sure but he has been touted by some as the next United manager. In that regard it's fair to ask how he 3.5 years into the job is getting schooled by the likes of Hodgson, Howe and Gerrard who all arrived at their clubs in recent months.
 

FootballHQ

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Saints are always going to up and down. All but safe now so they've gone into pretty much beach mode. Good job they had that good run as got four home games left and three of those v Chelsea, Southampton and Liverpool.

Aren't they still in the cup, seems they rested a few today.
 

Caesar2290

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Guy is an utter embarrassment.
High risk high reward thing doesn't always work at smaller teams.

Naglessman lost 5-0 to us in the CL and even lost 5-0 with Bayern this year in the DFB Pokal. It is not uncomon all managers who play high line and gengenpressing to get the once a season hammering.
 

Cassidy

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High risk high reward thing doesn't always work at smaller teams.

Naglessman lost 5-0 to us in the CL and even lost 5-0 with Bayern this year in the DFB Pokal. It is not uncomon all managers who play high line and gengenpressing to get the once a season hammering.
Its not just one
 

Caesar2290

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Spurs put 5 past them this season and Liverpool 4.
Pretty sure last season it didn’t just happen once too
Fair enough. I just don't pay attention to the score lines, only the table. I remember us getting hammered 5-3 by Soton and 5-0 by Chelsea in the same season and almost winning the title
 

Cassidy

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Fair enough. I just don't pay attention to the score lines, only the table. I remember us getting hammered 5-3 by Soton and 5-0 by Chelsea in the same season and almost winning the title
Yes but I’m pretty sure it was not happening every season. And Im also pretty sure conceding almost double figures didn't happen every season either. Even for clubs fighting relegation
 

FootballHQ

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Spurs put 5 past them this season and Liverpool 4.
Pretty sure last season it didn’t just happen once too
They took 4 points off Spurs this season.

Liverpool scoring 4 past them at Anfield is hardly that newsworthy these days so I wouldn't class that as a hammering.

Southampton just have their limits really but being 6 down at home by 50th minute does take some effort.
 

led_scholes

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There is a position between being a great manager and a bad. He is definitely not bad or an embarrassment as some say. He is also most likely not the new Kloop or the next big thing. He is a fine manager even if his underfunded team gets spanked every year by someone.
 

Samid

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Saints are going backwards under him. Point gap down to 18th place keeps shrinking every season. They could be in real trouble next year if Everton improve slightly and one of the promoted teams have a good season.
 

always_hoping

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Saints are going backwards under him. Point gap down to 18th place keeps shrinking every season. They could be in real trouble next year if Everton improve slightly and one of the promoted teams have a good season.
Without the high pressing and intensity they use to bring under him Southampton are so mediocre.
 

The Corinthian

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He is genuinely an awful manager. Surprised he survived two 9-0s in consecutive seasons and a 6-0 shellacking by Chelsea this year.

Yesterday was genuinely one of the most pathetic performances I’ve seen from a team in a long time. 2-1 down and they had 10 men behind the ball just defending the space. You wouldn’t even see mid 00s Stoke playing like that.

Hope he gets sacked or they get relegated.
 

DannyCAFC

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Pitchforks are out on saintsweb, they want him gone.
Don't know what more they're expecting to be honest considering their transfer activity, the only time they seem to spend any sort of significant money on a player it's normally to replace a key one they've sold like Hojbjerg, Ings or Vestergaard. Can't say they've upgraded their squad at all really for about 2-3 years and it's bang average when you comb through it.

Hardly any surprise they've stagnated and few managers would be able to do a better job in those circumstances I feel.

Cautionary tale Saints fans from a Charlton one who witnessed our demise after Curbishley - sometimes the grass isn't always greener. Recognise when you've got a manager who's doing a so-so job because that's all the board are prepared to push towards.
 

ilrm

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His 4-4-2 pressing game reminds me of the late 1980s Milan. Obviously he doesn't have the squad quality to make it work. Should give him one more season - maybe sell JWP for big money and improve multiple areas of the squad.
 

Hansi Fick

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If they sack him, they go down and never come up again. You simply can't be a successful PL club with that level of investment over many years.
 

OrcaFat

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If they sack him, they go down and never come up again. You simply can't be a successful PL club with that level of investment over many years.
He is very overrated in my opinion. He is an okay coach who got some decent performances out of his squad and some decent results along the way. Not at all irreplaceable.

They weren’t far off the danger zone last year and will be vulnerable again, regardless.
 
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