Insulting another member
Calm down snowflake, people are just so sensitive about anything, its good for a laugh at least.
Rangnick on Fletcher: What his role is, I don't really know
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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The point was not the specific person, but more the credentials and experience of the people we should be looking to build a footballing management team with vs the people we're getting in now.There's clearly incompetence throughout the club's structure, but of all the issues to criticise our board about, missing out on a scout who joined Spezia seems a feeble one
Who the heck cares what every bullet point on Fletcher's list of responsibilities is? Clearly Ralf doesn't, he cares about the stuff that pertains to him as he says in the quotes.
It seems obvious to me that he enables some kind of link between the suits (especially Murtough) and the team. This has probably been exacerbated by a mid season manager. This is what is visible, there will be a raft of things he does that are not visible which we are not required to know.
The real question is why that should be so important to our fans. At the end of a cycle of Murtough and Fletcher we'll have our say as the proof is in the outcomes. You are either a success, or oversee more mediocrity. Until then it is pointless getting hot under the collar about staff members where we have no way of directly assessing performance in the short term. It makes you appear bitter, illogical and just plain weird.
It seems obvious to me that he enables some kind of link between the suits (especially Murtough) and the team. This has probably been exacerbated by a mid season manager. This is what is visible, there will be a raft of things he does that are not visible which we are not required to know.
The real question is why that should be so important to our fans. At the end of a cycle of Murtough and Fletcher we'll have our say as the proof is in the outcomes. You are either a success, or oversee more mediocrity. Until then it is pointless getting hot under the collar about staff members where we have no way of directly assessing performance in the short term. It makes you appear bitter, illogical and just plain weird.
Just seems odd that the article you've read about this scout is seen as a damning indictment of our poor recruitment. Seems all the big clubs -and even middling ones- missed out if he ended up at Spezia.
He's also been at Spurs, Monaco and Sampdoria. Noticeably there at Monaco during the time they signed the likes of Fabinho, Martial and Moutinho. Schick and Torreira at Sampdoria bought for cheap and sold for large profits.
He's at Spezia, because as I've mentioned, they've got new rich American owners, who've hired him to recruit for them.
We have Henny de Regt who is even more experienced and is credited with discovering Wesley Sneijder, Nigel de Jong, Christian Eriksen, Van der Vaart and a 15 year old de Ligt at Ajax. He's also been in advisory roles, advising national teams when it comes to player development. But this guy who's ended up at Spezia is apparently even more impressive.
...We have Henny de Regt who is even more experienced and is credited with discovering Wesley Sneijder, Nigel de Jong, Christian Eriksen, Van der Vaart and a 15 year old de Ligt at Ajax. He's also been in advisory roles, advising national teams when it comes to player development. But this guy who's ended up at Spezia is apparently even more impressive.
And presumably also partly responsible for signing off on £50m for a RB that can't attack in AWB, £40m on Van De Beek, £75m on Maguire, a questionable £70m on Sancho, £25m on Diallo as some of our last major big signings.
I don't know why everyone on this forum has to be so condescending. My point was literally that it's no secret that our footballing management team has been poor post SAF, and some new experience heads to make footballing decisions may be good instead of Murtough, Fletch and Arnold. And yet it's just loads of lel Spezia haha in reply.
No he wasn't because the manager model was still in effect and its well documented that both Mourinho and Solskjaer had their personal scouts when identifying players. Similar to how Brendan Rodgers was signing players for Liverpool using his own people and not Michael Edwards and his team.
Well good to know he's getting a paycheck for doing nothing then.
He's getting a pay cheque for his work at the academy levels which is even more extensive from what I've read. But you carry on being confused.
Good. The academy needs good scouts.
But the guy I was referring to is more in the technical director role, similar to Monchi at Sevilla, responsible for identifying players for the first team. Not an academy scout.
Again, the point I'm making is we should be aiming to build a proper footballing management team composed of experienced footballing analysts. Brighton's board is filled with people who made their bones at Starlizard at Smart Odds.
All I'm saying here is that give the current team a chance. The likes of Court, Lawlor, Bout and de Regt have a lot of experience in the game and they head the recruitment departments from the scouting to the data analytics. But theses guys never had the control before now at first team level, because the manager set the directive and was allowed his own scouts to identify targets. And that doesn't mean the recruitment staff didn't provide reports, they did, but those reports would've been secondary to the reports of the scouts who work directly with the manager.
And the above is something I've argued for years. So I'll I'm saying is give the guys a chance mate.
Yep , looking for drama where there isn’t any , tiresome to say the least.
RR speaks literally, all he is saying is he’s an asset for him but isn’t informed on what his other duties for the club are
Additionally I guess it's safe to say that Fletcher currently is not doing much other stuff than supporting coaching. I assume that he at the moment is more an interim coach than truly a technical director following all that turmoil after Ole's sacking and also Woodward leaving and the board reshuffle following that.
The picture should become much clearer when a new coaching staff is hired in the summer, so that he can actually do his work as a technical director again, and I am sure Rangnick will know what that role means than - but it is not surprising, that this isn't very clear at the moment.
It was a jobs for the boys appointment obviously.
But Fletcher seems to have gravitated away from being a technical director to just being another coach. Whether that's his choice or forced on him who knows.
Probably in his best interests because there's no reason to have Murtough, Rangnick and Fletcher all essentially with the same job role.
But Fletcher seems to have gravitated away from being a technical director to just being another coach. Whether that's his choice or forced on him who knows.
Probably in his best interests because there's no reason to have Murtough, Rangnick and Fletcher all essentially with the same job role.
So, nobody knows how his job actually is but he does show up to the training sessions.
I guess that's better than Phelan who's apparently never at the training?
I guess that's better than Phelan who's apparently never at the training?
What Rangnick actually said ahead of the game was:
“Well, I can only talk about what I’ve experienced in the last 11 to 12 weeks. He has always been part of almost every training session and each game.
“Whenever I have had a question about what he thinks, because he obviously knows the players, he has known them for a long time. I could always, and will always, ask him for his opinion. So it is good to have him in the team.
“What is his role in with regard to the club? I don’t really know, to be honest. I can only tell you what is happening in the training sessions, around the training sessions and around the games. In those areas, it is good to have him on board.”
Which seems to me to make the summation in the OP basically correct? He's pretty clear he does not know what Fletchers role is.
The OP chopped out part of a sentence,leaving Rangnick's words to look very negative. Clearly more negative than Rangnick intended.
Now I could do the same. It's easy. Same paragraph, pull out just one sentence, start a thread. Totally different impression. See below:
"in the training sessions, around the training sessions and around the games. In those areas, it is good to have him on board.”
Ah yes, the putting out the cones thing. I took the thread title to be the basic point made, but I see what you mean.
It suits the narrarive "job for the lads"
You know what's funny? When Ralf picks Maguire, McT over fan favourites, they know so much they say things like "I bet Fletcher is influencing the team selections"
They act as if they know exactly what is going on and the manager is doing nothing.
Fletchers role:
helping integrate players from reserve/youth into the first team pool and everything that entails;
- making sure there’s a pathway
- advising who’s ready for a chance at first team
- advising on who needs a loan, trying to organise same
- coaching
- giving his opinion re transfer targets & selling/releasing youth
Pressers in 2023: What are Matic and Mata's roles at United?
Manager: I've no idea but they're good at hugging.
Manager: I've no idea but they're good at hugging.
He's kept him because like moyes showed; it can be catastrophic to walk into a job and not have a team with members who have experience in the company.
Thanks, actually explains it very well. Fecking media !
Sounds like they deserve another contract!
RR doesn't know that Fletcher is United Technical Director sounds pretty confusing. I mean, they've been working together for months.
It’s pretty damning that Rangnick doesn’t know what Fletcher's role at the club is beyond helping out at training because he knows the players.
I guess like most workplaces, there are people at my work who, everyone can see their job title on the intranet, but no one really knows what they do.
I guess like most workplaces, there are people at my work who, everyone can see their job title on the intranet, but no one really knows what they do.
I'll repeat: They are working under interim conditions. RR needs a coach who knows the team and after everyone else left this means Fletcher had to fill the gap.
This isn't Fletcher's usual job, and what thst is might change again in the summer, depending on RR's future role and requirements of the new manager.
Agreed what you said. But I think you misunderstood my post. When you've been working closely with someone for months, you surely know about his title and role within the company.
This is what Fletcher did during Ole's tenure, that also included linking between club youth teams and first team, now, and since Ole been sacked, RR wanted to keep Carrick & McKenna, but since they left, he brought in Sasha (Coach + Psychologist) & Armas as coaches, Fletcher is now involved with the coaching and during the game helping out since he knows the players, RR needs him now.
As for the summer and next season, I think Fletcher goes back to his Technical Director role, which is to co-ordinate all aspects of squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, I don't think he will be impacted by Rangnick's consultancy, as RR's focus will be geared towards selection of new manager and player acquisition.
On your final point (the edit part), yes, you are correct, Fletcher is not in a leadership position and is not a key figure, he is only an employee, this also applies to the incoming Deputy Football Director, who will be tasked to look after few departments and reduce the load on Murtough.
The ones that we should scrutinize are Murtough (Football Director), Arnold (CEO), and whoever is the new next manager/head coach, I will also add Rangnick since he will be a consultant to Murtough for 2 years after his current interim stint, which could have a major impact on the decisions taken in the summer in terms of hiring the new manager and new players signed.
Jesus people really loving the mirror and mail lately.
You guys are gas craic!
our own manager says he doesn’t know what Fletch does but you are correcting each other and everything.
our own manager says he doesn’t know what Fletch does but you are correcting each other and everything.
You guys are gas craic!
our own manager says he doesn’t know what Fletch does but you are correcting each other and everything.
say something valuable or don't.
and don't qoute me with your shit posting
Caf posters have always known better than the manager. You should know this by now.You guys are gas craic!
our own manager says he doesn’t know what Fletch does but you are correcting each other and everything.
Right so.
you have no clue of the structure or day to day activities of employees of the club. Your speculation is misplaced and detracting from the central point here which is that our manager who is going upstairs for two years after this season is having people enforced on him and he is not quite sure why. He does not seem to object and has found some value in it but As a consultant, he will surely have something to say about this lack of clarity at the upper levels of a global business.
Phelan is in charge of a lot of the admin that goes into running a football club, he doesn’t have a coaching role anymore.
Murtough has as much chance of succeeding as anyone else brought in new.
not sure why Fletcher is in this conversation, I can’t think of anyone better for fulfilling the role he has. By all accounts he’s very good at it
We've all known the structure has been dysfunctional but hoped bringing Ralf in would change that. Its now clear he will have need to change the structure internally for us to function.
But I don't think our owners will give him that power
Ok, now you post something meaningful and you know how to post like an adult and discuss/debate, good job there.
Right so.
you have no clue of the structure or day to day activities of employees of the club. Your speculation is misplaced and detracting from the central point here which is that our manager who is going upstairs for two years after this season is having people enforced on him and he is not quite sure why. He does not seem to object and has found some value in it but As a consultant, he will surely have something to say about this lack of clarity at the upper levels of a global business.
And, It's not a mere speculation, the club announced a while ago the new football structure, and plenty of reputable journalists spoke about what it is too, that is what is informing me so far, and of course no one knows what is the real day to day activities of these people (Murtough, Fletcher) but we can gather some info and make an informed/educated guess here.
So, as mentioned above, the football structure exists before RR's arrival, and RR in his current role is the "Interim" Manager of the first team, no one is being forced on him, he can easily ask Fletcher to remain away from training and from match day group, also RR was allowed to bring in 2 coaches (Sascha & Armas), which shows the club is giving whatever support RR needs to do his current job as the Interim Manager
Regarding RR's job after his interim stint, he will continue on as a consultant for 2 years, this is the information we have, and we can then say for example, RR's remit in that consultancy role is to provide advice to the Football Director (Murtough) for 2 years on matters related to the football side of the club, a consultant, by the nature of their role, provide advice only, and maybe try to influence the ones in power, however, the decision-making power is with Murtough or Arnold, for example, in the summer, RR can tell Murtough that Fletcher is not needed and has no value to the club going forward, it will be up to Murtough then to decide what to do with Fletcher. (keep him or let him go).
His job is that Woodward read it would be good PR to get a Technical director and thought how about Fletcher, he is liked by the fans, which will make the PR twice as good.
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