Rangnick on Fletcher: What his role is, I don't really know

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devilish

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Do you have any actual facts on the matter, or just the usual insinuations based on feck all?

It's very easy to call people puppets and yes men.
About promotions? Sure.

Fletcher started as U16 coach in October 2021. He got promoted as first team coach in January 2022 and got another promotion as technical director in March 2022. In 5 months he had 3 job changes and 2 promotions. So either this guy is a football genius whose quality had never been witnessed in football (which is strange considering that United are still a mess). Else those promotions were unwarranted and were simply jobs for the boys.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-man-utd-first-team-coaching-staff-4-jan-2021

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

But that's not all. There seem to be an inherent distaste for experience throughout the board. Take Ole's administration for example. We've got a CEO who had never managed a football club before, a DOF who had never been a DOF before, a technical director who was an U16 coach 5 months before his appointment, a manager who never managed a top club before, coaching staff who never managed at a top club (one of whom was new to coaching). Why was that the case? Its not as if we don't pay good salaries to afford the best people.
 
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Withnail

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I already presented a viewpoint that you conveniently ignored re: Nicky Butt had more of an impact in revamping the academy than Murtough yet he’s gone and wasn’t considered for even Fletcher’s role.

Murtough has been here since 2013, almost a decade in which we’ve had a scatter gun transfer approach, over a billion spent and a largely failed transfer strategy. Is Murtough absolved of that now?

Some are lauding that he brought in Rangnick as an interim and a future consultant with the club. Do any of you not see the irony in that? What top DOF in the world brings in a consultant to help advise them on how to do their fecking job!?
You mean bringing in people with expertise to assist you in building a better operation? Yeah shocking, I'd never do that.

I ignored the Butt thing because it seemed like more assumptions. You're making vague claims that he did more. What's he doing now then? Beating off DOF offers from elite clubs all over the globe, no doubt.
 

roseguy64

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Interesting for people to think Butt had more to do with the academy rather than the external guy in Murtough who had experience in football operations before coming to Man Utd. Yet Fletcher another inside guy is clearly incompetent and a yes man because he impressed and was promoted for no reason other than being a suck up.
 

Adnan

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Interesting for people to think Butt had more to do with the academy rather than the external guy in Murtough who had experience in football operations before coming to Man Utd. Yet Fletcher another inside guy is clearly incompetent and a yes man because he impressed and was promoted for no reason other than being a suck up.
Completely agree.

Butt was at United in a coaching capacity mostly for 9 years. And during the the revamp which was led by Murtough at academy, scouting, data analytics etc. Butt came into a position at the club where he was managing the academy. But that wasn't a permanent position for Butt, and when the the revamp was complete, Murtough brought in Nick Cox to manage the academy, and since Nick Cox was brought to the club from Watford, we've seen a big improvement at academy level. And from what I've heard, the current u16s are showing even higher potential than the u18s/u23s.
 

Giggsy13

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You mean bringing in people with expertise to assist you in building a better operation? Yeah shocking, I'd never do that.

I ignored the Butt thing because it seemed like more assumptions. You're making vague claims that he did more. What's he doing now then? Beating off DOF offers from elite clubs all over the globe, no doubt.
Except the person he's brought in is a better DOF than he'll ever be. Rangnick is on another level and if Murtough had any sense, which he doesn't, he'd just hand over the reigns completely to Rangnick.

Regarding Butt its actually not assumptions at all and it was widely reported while he was here the impact he had in academy recruitment. The one feather in your proverbial cap about Murtough likely was all Nicky Butt or a significant portion of it. So why is middling Murtough still holding the DOF role especially when he's been involved at the club since 2013 where we have had disastrous overpriced and terrible signings. Yea, give the reigns to him, the type of fresh start the club desperately needed. :rolleyes:
 

Giggsy13

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About promotions? Sure.

Fletcher started as U16 coach in October 2021. He got promoted as first team coach in January 2022 and got another promotion as technical director in March 2022. In 5 months he had 3 job changes and 2 promotions. So either this guy is a football genius whose quality had never been witnessed in football (which is strange considering that United are still a mess). Else those promotions were unwarranted and were simply jobs for the boys.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...-man-utd-first-team-coaching-staff-4-jan-2021

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

But that's not all. There seem to be an inherent distaste for experience throughout the board. Take Ole's administration for example. We've got a CEO who had never managed a football club before, a DOF who had never been a DOF before, a technical director who was an U16 coach 5 months before his appointment, a manager who never managed a top club before, coaching staff who never managed at a top club (one of whom was new to coaching). Why was that the case? Its not as if we don't pay good salaries to afford the best people.
Don't bother mate.
 

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By now, he should have a rough understanding of the structure, what’s in place and what could be done better. Now if the man brought in to rebuild United does not know what your job is, be very worried, it’s likely redundant.
 

roseguy64

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By now, he should have a rough understanding of the structure, what’s in place and what could be done better. Now if the man brought in to rebuild United does not know what your job is, be very worried, it’s likely redundant.
Not really. Ralf has literally said he's only been focused on the first team and trying to arrest the bad form that caused him to get hired. He's not been focused on anything except coaching, tactics and player management.

Fletcher's work outside of working with Rangnick is mainly to do with the youth/admin stuff. It's obvious to see why he wouldn't be able to tell.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Not really. Ralf has literally said he's only been focused on the first team and trying to arrest the bad form that caused him to get hired. He's not been focused on anything except coaching, tactics and player management.

Fletcher's work outside of working with Rangnick is mainly to do with the youth/admin stuff. It's obvious to see why he wouldn't be able to tell.
If you work in McDonalds & they tell you to work on the fries are you incapable of smelling the burning beef patties?

Some of the nonsense spouted on this forum comes across as if you work there yourself. The manager said he doesn’t know what he does, from the looks of the quotes the comment may have been misconstrued but you aren’t manager of the biggest club in world football with blinkers on to every other department.
 

tenpoless

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What top DOF in the world brings in a consultant to help advise them on how to do their fecking job!?
When the DOF is actually not a DOF but just another clueless bloke getting paid millions this happens. Like CEOs that have no idea how their products/ideas work and end up hiring talents from other companies. It's true and real. There are cases like that and they even managed to persuade investors.
 

Adnan

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What top DOF in the world brings in a consultant to help advise them on how to do their fecking job!?
The answer to that question would be Ralf Rangnick. He used a advisor/consultant in his previous roles as Sporting director and coach, in Hemut Groß, who was the advisor to Rangnick at both Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig. And according to some, Rangnick wouldn't have had a career without the German innovator Helmut Groß.
 
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roseguy64

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If you work in McDonalds & they tell you to work on the fries are you incapable of smelling the burning beef patties?

Some of the nonsense spouted on this forum comes across as if you work there yourself. The manager said he doesn’t know what he does, from the looks of the quotes the comment may have been misconstrued but you aren’t manager of the biggest club in world football with blinkers on to every other department.
I'm taking him at his word. He's literally said he's only been focused on dealing with the first team and not been involved in other aspects of the club.
 

tenpoless

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If Fletcher got the role right after Ralf became the intertim, everyone would be saying that this is a great move. Fletcher remained after Ole failed and left. Its why there are question marks over him. Its all about context.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I'm taking him at his word. He's literally said he's only been focused on dealing with the first team and not been involved in other aspects of the club.
In that case can we just accept that Ralf said he doesn’t know what Fletcher does in the same manner. If our manager is clueless as to what another senior figure in the club does that’s worrying. I can be focused on my job and understand the janitor is there to keep the place clean, so unless he walks around with blinkers on & speaks solely to the players he’ll have been introduced to other departmental staff. Him focusing on his job doesn’t make him blind to others.

Again, I think he may have been misinterpreted but he said what he said.
 

Zoo

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I don’t want to see him on the bench anymore. His role needs to be defined as it’s not a good look.
 

The Purley King

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I don’t want to see him on the bench anymore. His role needs to be defined as it’s not a good look.
He is apparently the only one of the extended coaching staff that gives a shit though.
Prime fletcher in CM tonight would have seen us through………
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Managed a yellow card when none of the atletico players could which takes some doing.
 

bond19821982

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In a different world, we would have signed Onana, Mazraoui, Kamara by now. No idea who is in charge of transfers but if it's ETH to take over, it would resolve half of our issues.

Fletcher or Ralph - get your shit together.
 

golden_blunder

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In a different world, we would have signed Onana, Mazraoui, Kamara by now. No idea who is in charge of transfers but if it's ETH to take over, it would resolve half of our issues.

Fletcher or Ralph - get your shit together.
Transfers are nothing to do with Fletcher!

his job is to ensure there’s a pathway from reserves to first team squad then oversee the transition. A bit of coaching on top to keep his badges. Give his opinion if asked. It is ralfs decision on team matters and murtoughs on DoF matters
 

Mainoldo

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Transfers are nothing to do with Fletcher!

his job is to ensure there’s a pathway from reserves to first team squad then oversee the transition. A bit of coaching on top to keep his badges. Give his opinion if asked. It is ralfs decision on team matters and murtoughs on DoF matters
No.

The job of the technical director also includes our playing style and what players suit that of the manager and it’s style. He should be having a big input on what transfers coming in suit the Manchester United philosophy. He’s basically there to prevent a Jose Mourinho coming in and shifting from the United way with it going unnoticed to the DoF and board.

Let’s not downplay the title of his role now. Like he’s just there to guide reserve players into the first team. Mike Phelan could of just down that as an assistant coach.
 

golden_blunder

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No.

The job of the technical director also includes our playing style and what players suit that of the manager and it’s style. He should be having a big input on what transfers coming in suit the Manchester United philosophy. He’s basically there to prevent a Jose Mourinho coming in and shifting from the United way with it going unnoticed to the DoF and board.

Let’s not downplay the title of his role now. Like he’s just there to guide reserve players into the first team. Mike Phelan could of just down that as an assistant coach.
You’re wrong, sure they published his job description
 

golden_blunder

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Pretty sure it's also said that he's supposed to give input on incoming transfers. Not that he'd have decision making power though.
Which is my point, he only gives an opinion, he doesn’t hold the power it’s not his job. His job is the pathway. So I wish people would stop saying negative things about him, lumping him in with the DoF. He’s done an ok job so far in terms of pathway opportunities
 

Mainoldo

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You’re wrong, sure they published his job description
Which part is wrong. You’ve just said his only job is the pathway. What kind of stupid job is that. We created a role for Darren Fletcher to recommend reserves players for the first team. We’ve had that role at the club for years. Done by various people. Nicky Butt included. His role is what I said it was.
 

golden_blunder

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Which part is wrong. You’ve just said his only job is the pathway. What kind of stupid job is that. We created a role for Darren Fletcher to recommend reserves players for the first team. We’ve had that role at the club for years. Done by various people. Nicky Butt included. His role is what I said it was.
I didn’t say it was the ONLY role if you read my posts. For example I said that he’s also coaching. My overall point here is that he shouldn’t keep being thought off as someone who makes the decisions, he gives an opinion. Again I’ve said that before

DARREN FLETCHER has moved to clarify his Technical Director role at Manchester United following external confusion about his first year in post.
The Scot, who made more than 340 appearances for United as a player, was appointed to the new position in March 2021 with the remit of providing “technical advice across all aspects of the football department."
Usually a Technical Director would be concerned primarily with the medium to long-term football strategy of a club, but a tracksuited Fletcher has been a regular presence in United's dugout on matchdays.
When he was appointed Technical Director last March, United said he would continue as first-team to the end of the 2020/21 season. However, he was on the bench for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s final match as manager, the 4-1 defeat by Watford in November, and has remained there under interim boss Ralf Rangnick.
Speaking at a United Fans Forum, the former Scotland international explained: “With Ralf and his staff coming in, and Michael [Carrick] and Kieran [McKenna] choosing to move on, we had a quick transition process, so part of my role has been to assist with that, both on the training pitch and during games.
“I guess that’s been the most visible part for me this season, but that’s really an addition to my overall Technical Director role. It’s been a brilliant experience since I took on the role, the combination of long-term planning and contributing to our strategic goals, with the opportunity to still be close to the team and management.”
READ MORE: Murtough and Fletcher promoted by Man Utd
John Murtough, who was promoted to Football Director at the same time that Fletcher became Technical Director, added: “Darren’s role since starting his job has been invaluable on many levels, bringing his football experience to bear on a range of areas.”
In a story on their website, United added that youth development was “at the heart of his [Fletcher’s] remit to drive long-term strategic planning across United’s men’s, Women’s and Academy squads – in addition to day-to-day support for Ralf Rangnick’s coaching staff."
Speaking on the theme of youth development, Fletcher said: “That pipeline of Academy talent is a massive part of who we are as a club. Anthony [Elanga] has done brilliantly since he broke into the first team, and Hannibal has also been more involved in the squad recently.
“I’m working closely with Nick Cox, as Head of Academy, to look at the long-term strategy for bringing players through. We have to manage the balance between allowing them to develop and creating the right steps for that, without piling the pressure onto them.
“We currently have 13 young players and Academy products on loan and playing regularly in other divisions or leagues. Hopefully, we’ll see players like Brandon Williams, Teden Mengi, Jimmy Garner, Ethan Laird, Tahith Chong and Amad reap the benefits of that.
“All of them are doing really well on loan and we’re excited to bring them back in pre-season to see how they fare with our first-team players.”
Murtough said that a “thorough process” was underway to find a permanent manager and that their remit would be to “get us back to challenging for those domestic and European titles.”
He added: “Overall, while there is potential for further improvement and progress, we do feel that we now have the right structures in place across our Men’s, Women’s and Academy teams to support long-term success and we will continue working relentlessly and investing to achieve that.”
 

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I think it makes sense to have someone like Fletcher there. Especially during transition periods. In other words, the fact that he has been more visible in that period sounds reasonable.

Ten-fifteen-twenty years ago he would have end up as a manager somewhere. No he is doing a small part of the job a manager used to do. It is a part of the job where continiuity matters alot, and with a technical director we get that.
 

AneRu

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Its been clear from day one that Fletcher is being groomed for Murtough's role in the future, they just wont say it out publicly but that's how I see it. Right now he is Murtough's deputy in all but name but since our coaching team was left light by the departures of Carrick, McKenna and Pert he is also helping out with the coaching as Ralf couldn't bring in his first choices.
 

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Am I the only one who likes the idea of having at least some former players still in the club? Its important to have people who know the United standards and can help push that.
 

golden_blunder

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Am I the only one who likes the idea of having at least some former players still in the club? Its important to have people who know the United standards and can help push that.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it if the people are the right people
 

golden_blunder

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Its been clear from day one that Fletcher is being groomed for Murtough's role in the future, they just wont say it out publicly but that's how I see it. Right now he is Murtough's deputy in all but name but since our coaching team was left light by the departures of Carrick, McKenna and Pert he is also helping out with the coaching as Ralf couldn't bring in his first choices.
I think people, including Ralph are getting confused because United used the title “technical director” which appears to be somewhat different to other clubs usage.
In regards to being groomed for DoF I wouldn’t rule it out a few years down the line but the fact that the club are going to recruit a deputy DoF would suggest in the short term at least their plan doesn’t involve Fletcher in that role.
people have been so confused by his role that he came out publicly this year to state that the heart of his role lies in ensuring the young players have a route to the first team squad. I think the confusion comes down to his job title
 

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I didn’t say it was the ONLY role if you read my posts. For example I said that he’s also coaching. My overall point here is that he shouldn’t keep being thought off as someone who makes the decisions, he gives an opinion. Again I’ve said that before
This article pretty much covers off everything we both said.

Yes they said that’s his key focus but that’s probably due to his current experience level. What they won’t do is overwork Murtough or the manager.

Don’t get defensive over Fletcher I don’t think anyone is having a big dig at him. Just mainly highlighting his inexperience and I believe it counts when this is the First time someone has had this title at our club. It would of made sense for an experienced head to of built the foundations.
 

Mainoldo

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Am I the only one who likes the idea of having at least some former players still in the club? Its important to have people who know the United standards and can help push that.
Nope it’s good. A lot of clubs do it. It’s just over egged as it’s our club. But they have to fit a profile. Currently I think we look for the wrong characteristics.
 

golden_blunder

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This article pretty much covers off everything we both said.

Yes they said that’s his key focus but that’s probably due to his current experience level. What they won’t do is overwork Murtough or the manager.

Don’t get defensive over Fletcher I don’t think anyone is having a big dig at him. Just mainly highlighting his inexperience and I believe it counts when this is the First time someone has had this title at our club. It would of made sense for an experienced head to of built the foundations.
But again you’re giving too much credence to his role. He’s not building foundations so not sure why it needs an experienced person, as you said yourself Nicky butt was responsible before and by all accounts he did a fine job.

the guts of my argument is this; there are several people that have come into this thread or others, with a gripe about the club structure or DoF. Sine even have a gripe about using ex players in general. Then they lump Fletcher into this gripe. I think he’s been doing a good job on the pathway side so far, whilst also been asked to help out with coaching. I think we’re being a bit harsh i the fella.

off course it dies t help when Ralf says he didn’t know his job. As I said in another post I think he and others are confused by the title ‘technical director’ whose job responsibilities are different especially on the continent

oh and as I said before the club are supposedly going to recruit for a deputy DoF so that should extract Fletcher from these type of conversations naturally when people realise that they are getting confused

https://theathletic.com/news/manche...-work-under-john-murtough/CMjRAtUkbDLA/?amp=1
 
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Mainoldo

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But again you’re giving too much credence to his role. He’s not building foundations so not sure why it needs an experienced person, as you said yourself Nicky butt was responsible before and by all accounts he did a fine job.

the guts of my argument is this; there are several people that have come into this thread or others, with a gripe about the club structure or DoF. Sine even have a gripe about using ex players in general. Then they lump Fletcher into this gripe. I think he’s been doing a good job on the pathway side so far, whilst also been asked to help out with coaching. I think we’re being a bit harsh i the fella.

off course it dies t help when Ralf says he didn’t know his job. As I said in another post I think he and others are confused by the title ‘technical director’ whose job responsibilities are different especially on the continent

oh and as I says before the club are supposedly going to recruit for a deputy DoF so that should extract Fletcher from these type of conversations naturally when people realise that they are getting confused

https://theathletic.com/news/manche...-work-under-john-murtough/CMjRAtUkbDLA/?amp=1
But do you see what we are doing. Nothing is clear and everything needs clarity. How do you expect people to have confidence in that. The titles sound nice but if he’s not doing what it says on the tin, what’s the point.

Why do we need a technical director who doesn’t do technical director things?

To answer the recruitment point again. He should be heavily involved. For instance if we need a new RB someone needs to be providing insight on whether or not Ethan Laird should be considered or whether there’s a 17 year old wonder kid we expect to take that position. That means we can plan and maybe get a RB in there late 20’s. This is why people get concerned by Fletcher and also concerned when a Manager who is an expert in building club structures says he doesn’t know what he does.

We’ve been shite behind the scenes for ages. From the outside looking in we still are but with just new fancy titles.
 

golden_blunder

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But do you see what we are doing. Nothing is clear and everything needs clarity. How do you expect people to have confidence in that. The titles sound nice but if he’s not doing what it says on the tin, what’s the point.

Why do we need a technical director who doesn’t do technical director things?

To answer the recruitment point again. He should be heavily involved. For instance if we need a new RB someone needs to be providing insight on whether or not Ethan Laird should be considered or whether there’s a 17 year old wonder kid we expect to take that position. That means we can plan and maybe get a RB in there late 20’s. This is why people get concerned by Fletcher and also concerned when a Manager who is an expert in building club structures says he doesn’t know what he does.

We’ve been shite behind the scenes for ages. From the outside looking in we still are but with just new fancy titles.
To answer your point, they shouldn’t have called him a technical director as clearly most of his job is not and clearly it’s caused confusion.

i think that Ralf was calling it out with his remarks. He is called a technical director but he doesn’t do the job of technical director, what is his job? Hence he had to make clarifying statements.

yes we were shite behind the scenes, but we’re clearly building structure.

going back to recruitment for a minute, yes obviously he would say “listen we’ve got this fella in the reserves who potentially could be our Reece James but he’s struggled with injuries so I’ve sent him on a few loans to see how he copes. But in my opinion it’s worth waiting to see him in preseason before bringing someone else in”. The manager can then make a call whether he sticks or goes to the recruitment panel.
he’s already brought through elanga on the pathway and i hope we see a few more before the season is done
 

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Its just one of them stuffs that the club is bad at, they cant even define and stick with the job desc properly. I read about it somewhere back then involving Bundesliga (I forgot which team), a Technical Director is someone who works behind the scene to oversee the club, to bridge senior team coaches, junior team coaches and the people above then. They also help with transfers planning and give their inputs. A technical director is above the manager so they can suggest to replace manager and coaches if they think its needed. Its a very important and broad position to make sure the people and players in the club fit the vision.

He really shouldnt be coaching players in a tracksuit hence Ralf's confusion. You have way way more important things to do, why are you on the field? the club is in a huge transition as well so it makes little sense to do so. If he thinks he is needed because of a recent change in manager, well the club has enough coaches already, let them do their jobs and if theyre not good enough, you have the power to suggest changes or give them inputs. He just need to prepare for what comes after this season instead of worrying about "oh no a new manager, I need to make sure the players feel safe so I will be there among them". This season is a write off anyway. I dont know about any of you, but I wouldnt want someone with the job title Director coaching players. That means the position is not well defined because normally a director would have so much other things to do.
 
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