Rank the English talent

[Dancfc]

I've never seen the talent in him to be the equal of someone like Sancho. Maybe he hasn't shown his qualities yet.

He was the star man of the most dominant academy side for generation's, smashing teams that the likes of Sancho, Foden, Saka were in systematically.

Admittedly he hasn't hit the same heights as Sancho at first team level yet (although he's done a lot better than people think) but if we're talking in purely potential terms then he should be considered up there as should all our main players in that team.

 

[Havak]

Clicked this expecting an entirely different thread... Disappointed.

 

[spaceboyRSA]

True, but that's also true for Foden, Sancho and especially Trent. They, well outside of Trent certainly have ballon d'or potential. Not era defining potential though imo.

Thats at least a reasonable way of defining this so called "generational talent" discussion

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I've never seen the talent in him to be the equal of someone like Sancho. Maybe he hasn't shown his qualities yet.

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Needs to show it at senior level now.

 

[bondsname]

Oh I love this. Why is Kaka in Tier 2?!

Well it's just my own subjective opinion. He was unstoppable before moving to Real Madrid, even winning a ballon d'or. I personally rate him highly, but not enough to be up there with Messi, and Ronaldo.

 

[Suedesi]

I said at their peak. You don’t think any of those players will be world class at some point?

Some may, most won't. At this point, only TAA is world class, the rest are just promising youngsters with a long road ahead of them.

There's more print/TV/internet exposure of these young lads and obviously that hypes them up, but no I don't think England have three generational players (it's a contradiction in terms, but aside from that) in their midst. I just don't. I think it's extremely rare for a talented youngster to achieve world class levels and it requires a lot of things to go right - no major injuries, be at the right club, under the right manager, surrounded by the right group of people, and on top of it have that ego and drive to want to be the best. Ronaldo has it, Rooney didn't. One became a generational talent the other is merely world class.

Interesting thread though, I think we may look back at it in 5-10 years and have a good laugh.

 

[dbs235]

Needs to show it at senior level now.

That pass to Foden at the end

 

[WeePat]

Based on their potential ceiling

I don't know who these 3 are (probably do but not in a split second) if one's Garner then world class.

I'm not picking on you mate, this could easily apply to some of the other rankings posted in here, but using this to make a point.

How do people think it's possible to have so many "generational talents" in one era of youngsters?

 

[WeePat]

Any ranking that doesn't leave the generational talent blank is incorrect. I think there should be a much, much higher bar for what we consider generational.

 

[Dancfc]

I'm not picking on you mate, this could easily apply to some of the other rankings posted in here, but using this to make a point.

How do people think it's possible to have so many "generational talents" in one era of youngsters?

You're probably right tbh, stick them all on world class instead.

My list was basically potential ceiling though, based on current ability only Trent is above excellent.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Apparently there is a difference between a generational talent and a generational player
Talent can be there but the potential not realized.
While player will be as you mentioned, in hindsight.
I'll rather stick to not using the terms at all.

Well then a "generational talent" is highly subjective isnt it? Anyone can argue X player is a generational talent but it just didnt worked out for him for whatever reason.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Yes but there's a wide gap between Messi and Ashley Cole, for example. You can't put them on the same padestal in any shape or form. I'm not saying England have a Messi level talent or even someone who belongs on a higher tier, but an argument can be made that a top RB isn't on par with potentially great forward.

That would be fair if we were talking about the greatest player ever, but when talking about worldclass players the definition is the top player in the position at the moment. So there's no point saying X player is not worldclass because he's not as separated from the others as Messi is, if we took that as the bar then no player has ever been worldclass since no one is remotely close to Messi.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well then a "generational talent" is highly subjective isnt it? Anyone can argue X player is a generational talent but it just didnt worked out for him for whatever reason.

So that would make such player a generational flop too?

 

[Suedesi]

No you did not. You think just listing 1 or 2 names was an appropriate response to my question that came after that post/question?

You offered nothing. I asked which national teams could be considered favorites as a collection of talents coming through? Or you could give a response where you believe it's not possible to name a national team as a principle. Any of the two will do.


Was never even possible anyways due to the Home nations rule, but that's beside your point.

I offered you a clear counterexample of how overhyped PL players can be - you have a direct quote from Steven Gerrard 10 years ago claiming Joe Cole is as good as Messi. It was ridiculous, it is ridiculous now.

You have the media looking into Adnan Januzaj potentially playing for England on the back of 3-4 promising games. Whether or not he was eligible is exactly the point, the media covered it and wrote column inches on a nothing player, not eligible to play for England in the first place.

Lastly, I don't care what national sides you think highly of - you've just heard some random names and you think you're a major talent scout. You have no clue what Brazilian, Argentinian, Uruguayan, German, Italian, Spanish or African talents are out there - or how they will develop.

 

[Dancfc]

I offered you a clear counterexample of how overhyped PL players can be - you have a direct quote from Steven Gerrard 10 years ago claiming Joe Cole is as good as Messi. You have the media looking into Adnan Januzaj potentially playing for England on the back of 3-4 promising games.

I don't care what national sides you think highly of - you've just heard some random names and you think you're a major talent scout. You have no clue what Brazilian, Argentinian, Uruguayan, German, Italian, Spanish or African talents are out there - or how they will develop.

Joe Cole was 28 at the time and as funny as it was to use for banter purposes Gerrard was completely misquoted if I remember rightly. So doesn't really fit the criteria of this article.

Januzaj's hype was mental though, didn't he receive a SPOTY nomination?

 

[KennyBurner]

This is a fair assessment. Greenwood and Sancho the only generational talents available. Foden will be worldclass but Im not seeing how he is considered generational by most of you.

 

[Ødegaard]

What do people think of when they say generational talent?
A talent that only comes along once in a generation? If so Rashford for 97, Mbappe for 98, Haaland or Sancho for 20 etc?

Who are the competitors at 2001 for Greenwood if this is the case? Saka, Martinelli & Gilmour from the PL? Who outside?

Or once every generation of players being bedded in and phased out?
So Messi or Ronaldo this generation?

Would he need to get to the level of the current highest rated talents playing for top clubs?
Mbappe, Haaland, Sancho, Rashford, Davies etc. From what he has done at 18 he obviously isn't there yet, but claiming that he can reach their level with a lot of trust and good progression isn't as nutty as some seem to think.

Obviously seeing someone as having the potential to reach those levels doesn't necessarily make you believe they will. Attitude, luck and probably tons of other things play a big part in development.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What do people think of when they say generational talent?
A talent that only comes along once in a generation? If so Rashford for 97, Mbappe for 98, Haaland or Sancho for 20 etc?

Who are the competitors at 2001 for Greenwood if this is the case? Saka, Martinelli & Gilmour from the PL? Who outside?

Or once every generation of players being bedded in and phased out?
So Messi or Ronaldo this generation?

Would he need to get to the level of the current highest rated talents playing for top clubs?
Mbappe, Haaland, Sancho, Rashford, Davies etc. From what he has done at 18 he obviously isn't there yet, but claiming that he can reach their level with a lot of trust and good progression isn't as nutty as some seem to think.

Obviously seeing someone as having the potential to reach those levels doesn't necessarily make you believe they will. Attitude, luck and probably tons of other things play a big part in development.

How can every year be a generation?! Surely, that's not how erm, generations, work.

 

[Prodigal7]

He was the star man of the most dominant academy side for generation's, smashing teams that the likes of Sancho, Foden, Saka were in systematically.

Admittedly he hasn't hit the same heights as Sancho at first team level yet (although he's done a lot better than people think) but if we're talking in purely potential terms then he should be considered up there as should all our main players in that team.

The reason he was more dominant at youth level was because of his size and athleticism in comparison with others. He’s still a very good talent but Sancho, Foden and Greenwood are a level above I think.

 

[Kamprad]

True, but that's also true for Foden, Sancho and especially Trent. They, well outside of Trent certainly have ballon d'or potential. Not era defining potential though imo.

Also true. Not many are generational talents. That’s why it’s called generational. In my lifetime I’ve seen very few at the age 17-20. Both Ronaldos. Messi. That’s it.

 

[Ødegaard]

How can every year be a generation?! Surely, that's not how erm, generations, work.

I'm asking because I'm not sure how people see it.
If people thinks generational means they have the talent to be the best player during the time from their enterance to the end of their career then it shouldn't be brought up ever due to Ronaldo and Messi still counting, and we won't know if another bigger talent comes along in 2-3 years.

Please explain the term to me.

 

[SilentWitness]

I feel like generational talents should be confined to players that are in contention for Ballon D'ors and you tend to see a new collective for them come round every 5 or so years with those at the top of the pile i.e Messi/Ronaldo being at the top of that pile for around 10 years.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm asking because I'm not sure how people see it.
If people thinks generational means they have the talent to be the best player during the time from their enterance to the end of their career then it shouldn't be brought up ever due to Ronaldo and Messi still counting, and we won't know if another bigger talent comes along in 2-3 years.

Please explain the term to me.

I really don't know but it's not every single year. It's more likely a spell of 5/10 years (maybe even 15 years given that would be your average career span). In real life terms a generation is a much longer period of time of course.

 

[Infordin]

What's laughable about it?

Which national sides have a collection of talent coming through at roughly around the same time to where you can classify it as a potential WC favorite?

Gianluigi Donnarumma
Alessandro Bastoni
Luca Pellegrini
Nicolò Barella
Nicolò Zaniolo
Sandro Tonali
Gaetano Castrovilli
Rolando Mandragora
Manuel Locatelli
Riccardo Orsolini
Federico Chiesa
Sebastiano Esposito

 

[DixieDean]

Non of the attackers will go on to be truly world-class. Some decent prospects, but that's about it. I can't see them ever getting England to a final.

 

[paraguayo]

Is Neymar a generational talent?

 

[Righteous Steps]

Is Neymar a generational talent?

The definition

 

[Rozay]

 

[In Rainbows]

I offered you a clear counterexample of how overhyped PL players can be - you have a direct quote from Steven Gerrard 10 years ago claiming Joe Cole is as good as Messi. It was ridiculous, it is ridiculous now.

You have the media looking into Adnan Januzaj potentially playing for England on the back of 3-4 promising games. Whether or not he was eligible is exactly the point, the media covered it and wrote column inches on a nothing player, not eligible to play for England in the first place.

Lastly, I don't care what national sides you think highly of - you've just heard some random names and you think you're a major talent scout. You have no clue what Brazilian, Argentinian, Uruguayan, German, Italian, Spanish or African talents are out there - or how they will develop.

You still didn't properly read what I wrote. Nobody said you have to care what national side I think highly of. I was asking you, who do you think are national sides that are giving us a high concentration of top talents at the same time so that when 2026 comes around (what OP? brought up) you can consider the favorite.

All you've done is act like a petulant child.

Finally, nobody here thinks of themselves as scouts. We're football fans that extends to keeping track of youth football. Even if someone were a scout, they wouldn't be able to keep track of all the youth talents in the world. That is why many scouts are employed around the world and why scouting reports exist so that they can gather them up to utilize all the information they can possibly get. We're talking about mortals here, not gods.

Gianluigi Donnarumma
Alessandro Bastoni
Luca Pellegrini
Nicolò Barella
Nicolò Zaniolo
Sandro Tonali
Gaetano Castrovilli
Rolando Mandragora
Manuel Locatelli
Riccardo Orsolini
Federico Chiesa
Sebastiano Esposito

We should do a thread on this subject.

 

[WR10]

(1) Greenwood in a bracket on his own. Everyone else gets scraps below. (3) Rashford below (2) Sancho and Foden. Rashford, AWB, alexander biggest contenders in the 'excellent' bracket.

Hopefully, people realized Rashford is not quite 'generationally' gifted like Greenwood when it comes to blessed talent in finishing. Hopefully Bruno and Pogba back people realize Rashford is also not generationally gifted at dribbling/close control of a ball.

 

[Dante]

Feck's sake

As if the debates about 'world class' weren't bad enough. Buckle in years of arguing about the real meaning 'generational talent' instead.

I feel as though terms for ranking players get downgraded every few years. It's probably because fans want to bump up the classification of their favourite players, so the previous definitions become so broad that they signify less than they used to. The result is that the old 'excellent' are the new 'world class', whereas the old 'world class' are the new 'generational talents'.

It's probably easiest to talk about tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, etc (though maybe you can reserve tier 0 for players who are in the conversation for the greatest of all time).