Rank the PL coaches

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
The "Hate Jose" cult is way bigger and stronger on caf. Any positive performance by Jose team has to be frowned upon. Jose can only be abused/mocked.
Strange behavior.
Pretty strange indeed. People are ranking the PL coaches. Of course Mourinho will be around top 6-7. It's as if some entered this thread wanting to see him in rock bottom with Bruce ahead of him or something, then got mad when this ridiculous thing didn't happen, and decided to turn the thread to another Mourinho discussion borefest.
 

Nani Nana

Full Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
5,646
Supports
Whoever won the game
The standard of managers in the Prem is insane, very tough to decide. Here it goes:

1. Klopp
2. Mourinho
3. Ancelotti
4. Bielsa
5. Espirito Santo
6. Rodgers
7. Wilder
8. Dyche
9. Guardiola
10. Lampard
11. Bilic
12. Arteta
13. Bruce
14. Hassenhutl
15. Potter
16. Solskjaer
17. Hodgson
18. Smith
19. Moyes
20. Parker

Edit: I was probably too kind on Bilic and Ole and harsh on Arteta and Hodgson but oh well.
Great list brate
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Overrating of Arteta in this thread is funny as feck. The guy's football would make Pulis proud. Moyes' westham outplayed him at Emirates 3 weeks ago and they were fortunate to scrap 3 points. Also, it seems people have forgotten Jose's third season here and how crap we were.
Well of course Arteta is better than more than half of the PL managers list. Actually pretty weird to think otherwise. Easily top 6-7 like Mourinho as well. Most managers past top 8 are underwhelming.

I don't know what people were expecting entering this thread to be honest.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Well of course Arteta is better than more than half of the PL managers list. Actually pretty weird to think otherwise. Easily top 6-7 like Mourinho as well. Most managers past top 8 are underwhelming.

I don't know what people were expecting entering this thread to be honest.
Arteta has achieved nothing to be in top 6-8. You act as if his side play some scintillating football. Too soon to judge him. SO far the guy has just made sure they don't get thrashed when playing City. That is not some achievement.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Arteta has achieved nothing to be in top 6-8. You act as if his side play some scintillating football. Too soon to judge him. SO far the guy has just made sure they don't get thrashed when playing City. That is not some achievement.
Since when football managers are ranked based on playing only breathtaking football ? There're different ways to play football and just playing attacking football isn't the only thing we should judge managers on, pretty weird take to be honest, and it's a pretty good fact that Arteta has taken over a hopeless team in a crap situation with zero planning or hope for the future and in one year they have become much more solid all over the pitch, can grind some good results and have their fans hoping for good future again. He also won a cup in the same period.

Beside as I said, most managers post top 8 are pretty underwhelming anyway. There's no doubt Arteta is better than the vast majority of the bottom 10 teams' managers.
 

SadlerMUFC

Thinks for himself
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
5,746
Location
Niagara Falls, Canada
I don't care people not liking Ole, but stop making excuses for other managers. Just to bash Ole they will say Arteta and Lampard are promising, I mean have you even seen arteta's brand of football. He makes Jose's football exciting. Isn't it too soon to judge him and put him in top 10. Point is grass is always greener on the other side.

I also don't get the argument of people saying he wouldn't get another job. How do we know? If Ole leaves the job today, the history will say he did a better job at United than Moyes. Who is to say he doesn't have good connection and may land up a decent job. How do we have the metrics that he is a championship level manager when he has beaten the likes of Pep multiple times and finished 3rd. Again, one doesn't need to rate Ole and may even say he is not good enough to manage Manchester United, but to say he is the worst of the lot or he is just a PE teacher who will not even find a job at championship club doesn't add up or make sense.
The thing is, with our toxic fanbase, if we win it's because of the players, but if we lose it's because of the manager. We could have had Pep, Klopp or any other top manager in the game today and there is no way in hell we do better than 3rd last year. And after Ole lead us to a 3rd place finish instead of backing him and building on that, our board gave him nothing that he asked for and watched as everyone else around us improved their squad. Ole isn't our problem. Woodward and company are...
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Since when football managers are ranked based on playing only breathtaking football ? There're different ways to play football and just playing attacking football isn't the only thing we should judge managers on, pretty weird take to be honest, and it's a pretty good fact that Arteta has taken over a hopeless team in a crap situation with zero planning or hope for the future and in one year they have become much more solid all over the pitch, can grind some good results and have their fans hoping for good future again. He also won a cup in the same period.

Beside as I said, most managers post top 8 are pretty underwhelming anyway. There's no doubt Arteta is better than the vast majority of the bottom 10 teams' managers.
You are acting as if he took over a relegation threatened side and made them win FA cup. Emery was dog abused for finishing 5th and losing the Europa final (almost a same team minus 72 million Pepe and the new LB) but now the expectation for Arteta is even lower. It's like hey glad you only lost 3-1 to Liverpool, great stuff.

It is just too soon to put arteta or even Parker in this list and I would have said the same if people were putting him in bottom 3. So far Arteta has't done much to be called as a top 10 PL manager. If he is in that list then most of the other managers that you call underwhelming should also be on that list.

Fun fact: When Emery was sacked they were ahead of us and Spurs but at the end of the season we finish 3rd and Arteta's Arsenal are still 8th. But one is not fit to manage in championship football and the other is a top 8 manager.
 

C'mon FC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 7, 2018
Messages
274
Supports
1. FC Köln
Actually a question which is impossible to answer other than whose face you like.
There are just too many factors in the dark:
- Work on transfers which haven't been realized for some reason
- motivation
- regeneration
- training
- problem management
- tactics

Also you need to know that (and many more) of all PL- coaches.

You could only consider the points at the table but than I'd ask:
What was a bigger achievement? Wagner staying in the league with Huddersfield or Klopp's incredible 2nd place with Liverpool.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
You are acting as if he took over a relegation threatened side and made them win FA cup. Emery was dog abused for finishing 5th and losing the Europa final (almost a same team minus 72 million Pepe and the new LB) but now the expectation for Arteta is even lower. It's like hey glad you only lost 3-1 to Liverpool, great stuff.

It is just too soon to put arteta or even Parker in this list and I would have said the same if people were putting him in bottom 3. So far Arteta has't done much to be called as a top 10 PL manager. If he is in that list then most of the other managers that you call underwhelming should also be on that list.

Fun fact: When Emery was sacked they were ahead of us and Spurs but at the end of the season we finish 3rd and Arteta's Arsenal are still 8th. But one is not fit to manage in championship football and the other is a top 8 manager.
Arteta took a team who has been a Europe League one for 3-4 years in a row, finishing fifth or lower consistently. Of course the expectations he's starting with are pretty low. Emery was abused because he simply improved nothing and by the end of his tenure it has become way very toxic, not winning a single game in a 7 games run before his sacking. On the contrary the team now looks much more improved and better than when when he took over. They lost only against the 2 best teams in the league in the first 5 games, and they didn't look bad in both of these games at all, could have actually snatched a draw against Liverpool if they scored some of their chances.

Beside you realize most of the points you made to devalue Arteta's work can work pretty well on Ole's case as well since you're talking about him in the last paragraph ? "You are acting as if he took over a relegation threatened side and made them finish 3rd. Mourinho was dog abused for finishing 2nd and losing the Fa final (almost a same team minus 80 million Maguire and the new RB), LVG was dog abused for finishing 5th and winning Fa Cup, but now the expectation for Ole is even lower" Here I worked your quote in a similar fashion about us.

Of course he should be in this list. It's a PL managers ranking. He has to be ranked somewhere, and ranking them is about how are they're doing at the moment. At the moment he's easily top 6-7. If things change in the future, the ranking will change, simple. I can't think of any manager outside top 8 who can get into the top 8 best managers bar Bielsa or Carlo, if we can even consider current Everton a bottom 10 team.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
13,967
It's amazing the impact the 4/5 most recent games has on these lists. Would have looked completely different in July.

Just shows how knee jerk everyone is.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Arteta took a team who has been a Europe League one for 3-4 years in a row, finishing fifth or lower consistently. Of course the expectations he's starting with are pretty low. Emery was abused because he simply improved nothing and by the end of his tenure it has become way very toxic, not winning a single game in a 7 games run before his sacking. On the contrary the team now looks much more improved and better than when when he took over. They lost only against the 2 best teams in the league in the first 5 games, and they didn't look bad in both of these games at all, could have actually snatched a draw against Liverpool if they scored some of their chances.

Beside you realize most of the points you made to devalue Arteta's work can work pretty well on Ole's case as well since you're talking about him in the last paragraph ? "You are acting as if he took over a relegation threatened side and made them finish 3rd. Mourinho was dog abused for finishing 2nd and losing the Fa final (almost a same team minus 80 million Maguire and the new RB), LVG was dog abused for finishing 5th and winning Fa Cup, but now the expectation for Ole is even lower" Here I worked your quote in a similar fashion about us.

Of course he should be in this list. It's a PL managers ranking. He has to be ranked somewhere, and ranking them is about how are they're doing at the moment. At the moment he's easily top 6-7. If things change in the future, the ranking will change, simple. I can't think of any manager outside top 8 who can get into the top 8 best managers bar Bielsa or Carlo, if we can even consider current Everton a bottom 10 team.
Are you living in an alternative universe because Ole is getting dog abused and I wouldn't argue with someone who says Ole right now is a bottom 10 manager, I just said people call him a championship manager or minor league manager when that has no base.

You clearly never bothered to read my post, I never devalued any of arteta's work but I just don't get how he at such a young stage is better than teh so called underwhelming managers. Forget Ole, how is Arteta better than Southampton manager or Potter, the brighton manager or the Villa manager. Do you realise the work they are doing is actually underrated and in fact they have done more for their respective club than Arteta. All you have done in your post is make excuse for arteta, ifs , buts. Should have won if not for this blah blah. Did you even see them play against West Ham. Moyes of all people outplayed him, can't we do the same ifs and buts for him too. Maybe had West ham been more clinical Arsenal would and should have lost.

You are just overrating Arteta and just underrating all other so called underwhelming managers who have done no different or even better than Arteta. And before you become defensive this is beyond Ole.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Are you living in an alternative universe because Ole is getting dog abused and I wouldn't argue with someone who says Ole right now is a bottom 10 manager, I just said people call him a championship manager or minor league manager when that has no base.

You clearly never bothered to read my post, I never devalued any of arteta's work but I just don't get how he at such a young stage is better than teh so called underwhelming managers. Forget Ole, how is he better than Southampton manager or Potter, the brighton manager or the Villa manager. Do you realise the work they are doing is actually underrated and in fact they have done more for their respective club than Arteta. All you have done in your post is make excuse for arteta, ifs , buts. Should have won if not for this blah blah. Did you even see them play against West Ham. Moyes of all people outplayed him, can't we do the same ifs and buts for him too. Maybe had West ham been more clinical Arsenal would and should have lost.

You are just overrating Arteta and just underrating all other so called underwhelming managers who have done no different or even better than Arteta. And before you become defensive this is beyond Ole.
Really ? How are these not devaluing his work exactly ?

Overrating of Arteta in this thread is funny as feck. The guy's football would make Pulis proud. Moyes' westham outplayed him at Emirates 3 weeks ago and they were fortunate to scrap 3 points. Also, it seems people have forgotten Jose's third season here and how crap we were.
Arteta has achieved nothing to be in top 6-8. You act as if his side play some scintillating football. Too soon to judge him. SO far the guy has just made sure they don't get thrashed when playing City. That is not some achievement.
You are acting as if he took over a relegation threatened side and made them win FA cup. Emery was dog abused for finishing 5th and losing the Europa final (almost a same team minus 72 million Pepe and the new LB) but now the expectation for Arteta is even lower. It's like hey glad you only lost 3-1 to Liverpool, great stuff.
You have pretty much said in these quotes that he has done nothing, his football is shite, the manager before him was doing well but was abused and now the expectations for him are rock bottom. For me this is easily devaluing what he has done at Arsenal. He has done quite a lot in the year he managed them and actually won something in this period, and now from the opening games they only lost points against the best 2 teams in the country.

I didn't make excuses for Arteta. He doesn't need them in fact. Losing to the two best teams in the country isn't something you need to make excuses for. Even ourselves treat losing to Liverpool or City as hardly a catastrophe these days. They won the rest of their games and have been solid, beside they actually seem to now have something they always lacked, ability to grind matches when not playing well.

You seem to revolve your opinion about the fact Arteta doesn't play great looking football on the eye and their team isn't as highly attacking as they were used before under Wenger which is simply a wrong idea to judge managers on. Managers are judged on results, stability, consistency and balance of the team first and foremost. Playing defensive or attacking is honestly irrelevant. Many top coaches in the history of football were defensive ones.

Southampton manager is a good candidate for top 10 managers though to be fair. They do very well away from home (but they shite the bed on their pitch). Still will rank Arteta as 6th or 7th manager easily.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,205
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Hes still someone who you can bet on having a big season within his first 2 years. Not a long term guy, but doesn't have to be. His previous job at United, he won 3 trophies in year 1 and finished 2nd with 81 points in year 2. Job before that he won the title with Chelsea before it collapsed. He's absolutely in the top 4.
No, you can’t be right, because I’ve read four thousand posts concluding that Mourinho is now a tactical and coachical anacronism, so it must be true. Either that, or people tend to go to extremes. For instance the same people that conclude that Mourinho currently is five times the manager Solskjær is, despite recent evidence telling a different story.
 

Winzaghi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
318
Supports
Aston Villa
Every manager have faults. So my question would be how you can put the likes of Hodgson, Dysche, Potter and more of those managers infront of him?


What he did last year is more than anyone could have hoped for. We are where we are, not because Solskjaer, but because of problems begining at the end of Sir Alex Ferguson era. Expensive squad doesn't mean we have best squad. In our case it means giving contracts to people who didn't deserve and overpaying players. The quality of players didn't warrant the money involved.
Put it this way, do you think Ole could achieve what Dyche, Potter and especially Hodgsons have with their comparatively scarcer resources? The one sample we have of him in a similar situation doesn't do him any favours too.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Really ? How are these not devaluing his work exactly ?







You have pretty much said in these quotes that he has done nothing, his football is shite, the manager before him was doing well but was abused and now the expectations for him are rock bottom. For me this is easily devaluing what he has done at Arsenal. He has done quite a lot in the year he managed them and actually won something in this period, and now from the opening games they only lost points against the best 2 teams in the country.

I didn't make excuses for Arteta. He doesn't need them in fact. Losing to the two best teams in the country isn't something you need to make excuses for. Even ourselves treat losing to Liverpool or City as hardly a catastrophe these days. They won the rest of their games and have been solid, beside they actually seem to now have something they always lacked, ability to grind matches when not playing well.

You seem to revolve your opinion about the fact Arteta doesn't play great looking football on the eye and their team isn't as highly attacking as they were used before under Wenger which is simply a wrong idea to judge managers on. Managers are judged on results, stability, consistency and balance of the team first and foremost. Playing defensive or attacking is honestly irrelevant. Many top coaches in the history of football were defensive ones.

Southampton manager is a good candidate for top 10 managers though to be fair. They do very well away from home (but they shite the bed on their pitch). Still will rank Arteta as 6th or 7th manager easily.
So saying how is arteta a top 6 manager is devaluing him. You are just being to defensive about him and are just overrating his work and underrating everyone else's work. The excuses Arteta gets other managers' don't is bizarre. Losing 3-1 to Liverpool is not an achievement nor scrapping past Sheffield is one nor is getting outplayed by Moyes at home is one. The fact that you are ranking him as a top 6 manager because he has won 3 and lost 2 but chose to ignore Villa's manager shows how much you are overrating him. Why don't you have the Villa manager ahead of Arteta, considering he beat LIverpool 7-2 , got them promoted to the league and saved them from relegation, surely that is more than what Arteta has achieved yet.

You would fit right into the AFTV bandwagon. You are making it sound like he is managing Wigan athletic ffs. Let him prove something before he is termed a top 6 PL manager ahead of others.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
57,585
Location
Canada
No, you can’t be right, because I’ve read four thousand posts concluding that Mourinho is now a tactical and coachical anacronism, so it must be true. Either that, or people tend to go to extremes. For instance the same people that conclude that Mourinho currently is five times the manager Solskjær is, despite recent evidence telling a different story.
Mourinho can be a better manager than Ole, more proven and one that 99% of clubs would take before Ole and Ole can still be more suited to United currently. A manager isn't necessarily more suited to a specific club just because they are better, or far better than another manager. Not so straight forward.
 

Glideman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
406
The standard of managers in the Prem is insane, very tough to decide. Here it goes:

1. Klopp
2. Mourinho
3. Ancelotti
4. Bielsa
5. Espirito Santo
6. Rodgers
7. Wilder
8. Dyche
9. Guardiola
10. Lampard
11. Bilic
12. Arteta
13. Bruce
14. Hassenhutl
15. Potter
16. Solskjaer
17. Hodgson
18. Smith
19. Moyes
20. Parker

Edit: I was probably too kind on Bilic and Ole and harsh on Arteta and Hodgson but oh well.
Some of those names above Ole make no sense.
  • Bilic really?
  • Bruce? No way
  • Arteta already...
  • Lampard come on, he lost to Ole what 3 times already?
Also Dyche, Rodgers, Santo all ahead of Pep? You joking right? Based on what exactly?
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
So saying how is arteta a top 6 manager is devaluing him. You are just being to defensive about him and are just overrating his work and underrating everyone else's work. The excuses Arteta gets other managers' don't is bizarre. Losing 3-1 to Liverpool is not an achievement nor scrapping past Sheffield is one nor is getting outplayed by Moyes at home is one. The fact that you are ranking him as a top 6 manager because he has won 3 and lost 2 but chose to ignore Villa's manager shows how much you are overrating him. Why don't you have the Villa manager ahead of Arteta, considering he beat LIverpool 7-2 , got them promoted to the league and saved them from relegation, surely that is more than what Arteta has achieved yet.

You would fit right into the AFTV bandwagon. You are making it sound like he is managing Wigan athletic ffs. Let him prove something before he is termed a top 6 PL manager ahead of others.
Saying he's not a top 6 manager is fine, opinions are subjective. Saying he has done nothing, his football is shite, the previous manager did a good job but was abused, and the expectations for him are rock bottom is devaluing his work. If not then I don't know what "devaluing" is.

I bet most Arsenal fans are pretty happy with what Arteta has done so far. A trophy, stabilizing the team and a good start for the season. All reasons for them to be excited about the future.
 

Hound Dog

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
3,192
Location
Belgrade, Serbia
Supports
Whoever I bet on
Some of those names above Ole make no sense.
  • Bilic really?
  • Bruce? No way
  • Arteta already...
  • Lampard come on, he lost to Ole what 3 times already?
Also Dyche, Rodgers, Santo all ahead of Pep? You joking right? Based on what exactly?
Based on me thinking that Pep is a fraud.
 

Amarsdd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
3,299
I just love how our manager brought our team to 3rd place last season yet most here don't even have him in the top 10. Bunch of ungrateful pratts...
esp. after moaning most of the first half of the season about our squad not being top 4 quality.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
Saying he's not a top 6 manager is fine, opinions are subjective. Saying he has done nothing, his football is shite, the previous manager did a better job but was abused, and the expectations for him are rock bottom is devaluing his work. If not then I don't know what "devaluing" is.

I bet most Arsenal fans are pretty hope with what Arteta has done so far. A trophy, stabilizing the team and a good start for the season. All reasons for them to be excited about the future.
But he has done nothing significant to be put in top 6 PL manager or even top 10 PL manager. How is that devaluing him. His football is not that good but he has organized their defence which is a credit to him (I have said that mutiple times in the arteta post).However, long term such boring football may not be sustainable. Again nothing devaluing. His football is actually boring to watch, if you don't agree that is fine. Also, I never said Emery did better than him, I just said it is funny how the expectation from him has suddenly become lower. If he finishes outside top 4 this season too then one has to question him just like emery was questioned. Nothing devaluing.

As for arsenal fans, well they will protect their manager doesn't mean he is a top 6 PL manager. All you have done so far is actually overrate his achievements and underrate others. You think by disagreeing with you I am devaluing Arteta, that is weird assumption one could have.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
But he has done nothing significant to be put in top 6 PL manager or even top 10 PL manager. How is that devaluing him. His football is not that good but he has organized their defence which is a credit to him (I have said that mutiple times in the arteta post).However, long term such boring football may not be sustainable. Again nothing devaluing. His football is actually boring to watch, if you don't agree that is fine. Also, I never said Emery did better than him, I just said it is funny how the expectation from him has suddenly become lower. If he finishes outside top 4 this season too then one has to question him just like emery was questioned. Nothing devaluing.

As for arsenal fans, well they will protect their manager doesn't mean he is a top 6 PL manager. All you have done so far is actually overrate his achievements and underrate others. You think by disagreeing with you I am devaluing Arteta, that is weird assumption one could have.
I mean even in this post you still think he has done nothing significant to be even top 10 manager in the league but you thing this isn't devaluing. If you don't even rate him as top 10 manager what else can be said, which rank do you think he should be in currently then, exactly ?
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,108
Put it this way, do you think Ole could achieve what Dyche, Potter and especially Hodgsons have with their comparatively scarcer resources? The one sample we have of him in a similar situation doesn't do him any favours too.
But if you turn it around - are you certain Dyche, Potter or Hodgson would take United to third place ? It's like people don't remember what Roy Hodgson did when he was at Liverpool

Paul Konchesky, Christian Poulsen, Jonjo Shelvey, Raul Meirelles, Milan Jovanovic, Danny Wilson, Joe Cole, Brad Jones

I must ask - has a single manager ever made a worse collection of signings in the P.L ?

I could add: 41 goals in 34 matches - 7 wins, 4 draws and 9 defeats in the league

Yet - this hardly gets mentioned when Roy Hodgson is credited as a better manager than OGS
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
I mean even in this post you still think he has done nothing significant to be even top 10 manager in the league but you thing this isn't devaluing. If you don't even rate him as top 10 manager what else can be said, which rank do you think he should be in currently then, exactly ?
I said it already, it is too soon to be giving him a rank. I would have had the same debate with you if you had put him in the 20th position by asking how is he rated that low. I will wait till probably december to judge him. I admire he won the FA cup and he deserves credit for that but then so should Villa manager for saving Villa from relegation and god forbid Ole for overcoming 15 point deficit and overtaking Leicester or Lampard for finishing 4th having a transfer ban or Jose for taking a 14th placed Spurs to 6th. It is just each one sees things differently.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
I said it already, it is too soon to be giving him a rank. I would have had the same debate with you if you had put him in the 20th position by asking how is he rated that low. I will wait till probably december to judge him. I admire he won the FA cup and he deserves credit for that but then so should Villa manager for saving Villa from relegation and god forbid Ole for overcoming 15 point deficit and overtaking Leicester or Lampard for finishing 4th having a transfer ban or Jose for taking a 14th placed Spurs to 6th. It is just each one sees things differently.
But this is escaping the question. This is a thread title about ranking PL managers. He's a PL manager, so people will have to rank him somewhere in this thread. Getting annoyed about people actually ranking him in a ranking thread is a pretty weird if you asked me. Simply, rank him. Otherwise, why blame people for actually doing what the thread title asked ?
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,032
Put it this way, do you think Ole could achieve what Dyche, Potter and especially Hodgsons have with their comparatively scarcer resources? The one sample we have of him in a similar situation doesn't do him any favours too.
The one sample saying that Solskajer couldn't save a Cardiff-team already sniffing Champioinship? What have those 3 managers you mentioned achived, except maybe Hodgson who won swedish league couple of times and league in Denmark?
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
But this is escaping the question. This is a thread title about ranking PL managers. He's a PL manager, so people will have to rank him somewhere in this thread. Getting annoyed about people actually ranking him in a ranking thread is a pretty weird if you asked me. Simply, rank him. Otherwise, why blame people for actually doing what the thread title asked ?
But still that doesn't make him a top 6 PL manager.
 

Winzaghi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
318
Supports
Aston Villa
The one sample saying that Solskajer couldn't save a Cardiff-team already sniffing Champioinship? What have those 3 managers you mentioned achived, except maybe Hodgson who won swedish league couple of times and league in Denmark?
Yeah like I said, it's just 1 sample so can't draw too many conclusions.

Dyche has gotten Burnley into Europe which is an incredible achievement and they're in what, their 6th consecutive season in the top flight?

Potter is actually very similar to Ole. They were both doing well in Scandinavia at around the same time. Since then he's transformed a beleaguered Swansea side who now have a platform to get promoted again and done a good job in changing the way Brighton play.

It's hard to say or make definitive statements on things that haven't happened but I haven't seen enough from Ole to suggest that he has a defined coaching strategy that could say, keep a team up, or get them promoted from an unlikely position. I'd say the same for Lampard. On the flipside, I've seen that from Arteta. It isn't pretty, but he's got something about him. Arsenal look a well-coached side. Putting him in the top 6 is laughable though.
 

georgipep

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
2,471
Location
Not far enough
Put it this way, do you think Ole could achieve what Dyche, Potter and especially Hodgsons have with their comparatively scarcer resources? The one sample we have of him in a similar situation doesn't do him any favours too.
Do you think Mourinho or Guardiola would?
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,205
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Mourinho can be a better manager than Ole, more proven and one that 99% of clubs would take before Ole and Ole can still be more suited to United currently. A manager isn't necessarily more suited to a specific club just because they are better, or far better than another manager. Not so straight forward.
I agree with what you are saying about suitedness and the picture being more complex, I don’t really care to guess what other PL-clubs would hire as that isn’t the question here. I do question those that currently put Mourinho as the third best coach in the PL with all the critique he has got, when his last two years has seen him put United into mediocrity and a bad state and have had Tottenham doing not quite as good in the League or in the cups as Solskjær has had United do. Yet Solskjær is according to the same people currently between 15th and 16th place. I repeat the word current, as Mourinho has shown nothing to indicate he is currently better than Solskjær. Even Mourinhos best acheivements with United from three and four years back, aren’t really more impressive than what Solskjær has done with United. He won the Europa League whereas Solskjær went out in the SF, and both reached the QF of the CL,yet when you look at what they did to what kind of opposition, Mou scraped past teams like Anderlecht and Ajax while Solskjæ trounced Brügge and AZ, Mou was humiliated at home by Sevilla, whereas Solskjær beat PSG (luckily, but with a depleted team) and battered a better Sevilla to go out against the count of chances. MOu won the league cup against Southampton and lost the FA cup final against Chelsea. Solskjær exited the league cup SF against City and the FA cup SF against Chelsea. I would argue had the better players, and more of his own choices, and in addition Solskjær has done this while handicapping himself in the short run to improve the team long term, while Mou did the opposite. Head to head they now have one win each. If you want to debate who seems to have done a better job the last five years, I’m open for that, but to say it puts one as the third best manager and the other as number 17 is just ludicrous and showing a bit of a perverse negativity towards your own. The proof is in the pudding, and if you want to make a case for Mourinho as a much superior coach, the pudding is about six years old.

Funnily, I’ve defended Mou many a time here against people writing him off as a complete has been, because I think his last five years still show he is still a good short term manager, looking at games and results. Not fantastic, and not as good as a good long term manager, but decidedly very good. Unlike some, I don’t think Spurs and United would do to well if Dych, Wilder, Howe or Potter were thrown in there tomorrow.

I wonder how this thread had looked if it was put up in July, or I don’t. I suspect quite a few has a negative bias against our own, whereas others idea of current is the game nine days ago. But they’re not up to speed, because the last fifteen minutes of League football, United won 3-0 away while Mourinho lost 3-0 at home.

I’m apologizing to you because I don’t mean to give you the heat of my irritation, maybe you have a particular argument that makes sense to howyou answered. My annoyance is about the non-coincidence that half the posts in this thread seems to me to support a groupthink mentality that will lift the manager we loathed yesterday while he was our own, high above our current man, seemingly just becuse he isn’t ours.
 

SadlerMUFC

Thinks for himself
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
5,746
Location
Niagara Falls, Canada
esp. after moaning most of the first half of the season about our squad not being top 4 quality.
[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? On one hand they whine that our squad isn't good enough to crack the top four but then ask for Ole to be sacked because he can't lead those same players who aren't good enough to the top four....
 

Pablo18th

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
108
I have no idea what to say about Parker tbh.

Others:
Tier A. World class. Top managers who make teams better than they are. Excellent in every area of manager's job.
Mourinho
Klopp
Pep
Ancelotti
Bielsa

Tier B. Very good managers who are talented enough but not top class managers.
Rodgers
Santo
Hasenhutl

Tier C. Solid, average managers who are good for specific job in middle table club. Not so much tactically strong but they know basic stuff. And little more than that.
Hodgson
Dyche
Wilder
Potter
Bruce
Bilic
Smith
Moyes

Promising managers. They have something but still early to say where they will belong.
Arteta and Lampard.

Tier D. Out of depth on higher level of football. Managers for clubs in minor leagues.
You know the name :)
Mourinho hasn't made a team better than it is for years now
 

Winzaghi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
318
Supports
Aston Villa
Mourinho hasn't made a team better than it is for years now
Spurs last season? That squad was crippled and nosediving under Poch, and he had them as the 3rd best team in the league from his arrival to the end of the season.
 

Fosu-Mens

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
4,101
Location
Fred | 2019/20 Performances
Every manager have faults. So my question would be how you can put the likes of Hodgson, Dysche, Potter and more of those managers infront of him?
The ranking was made based on a gameplan/approach to football games/discernable tactics.

Hodgson can coach a defensive structure/solidity, same with Dyche. Potter can coach both defensive and attacking football and is a seriously underrated manager.

How we end up scoring is based more or less on Bruno + counter attacking alas individual moments. Given that we have some decent attacking players, this could to some extent work if we had some balance between defensive structure and number of players in the attacking phases. Our means of attacking is by numbers, the same can be said with our defending (we cannot press cohesively/with intent at all) so only way we do not concede is by having 10 players behind the ball and park the bus.

If we rated the coaches based on man-management and human interaction abilities, and this was quantifiable, OGS would certainly rank much higher.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
119,446
Location
Dublin, Ireland
The ranking was made based on a gameplan/approach to football games/discernable tactics.

Hodgson can coach a defensive structure/solidity, same with Dyche. Potter can coach both defensive and attacking football and is a seriously underrated manager.

How we end up scoring is based more or less on Bruno + counter attacking alas individual moments. Given that we have some decent attacking players, this could to some extent work if we had some balance between defensive structure and number of players in the attacking phases. Our means of attacking is by numbers, the same can be said with our defending (we cannot press cohesively/with intent at all) so only way we do not concede is by having 10 players behind the ball and park the bus.

If we rated the coaches based on man-management and human interaction abilities, and this was quantifiable, OGS would certainly rank much higher.
all the things listed in your first paragraph are opinions based on what we think we see. We don’t see what happens on the training fields.
How about including win % for example?
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

New Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
16,946
Does Villa's start to the season change the perception of their coach at all?

A few decent players, and he's gotten a totally different tune out of the side, which is an incredible contrast from last season.

Granted it's a few games, but surely food for thought?
He’s also been backed in the transfer market. They did some great business