Rank the PL coaches

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

He's also lost 30% of matches with a 51% win rate and conceded 89 goals. Ole has managed 34 more matches and we've only conceded 10 less. Underwhelming.

We'll see how he does in the next few months but if results don't pick up quickly he'll be gone.

Well, it’s early days since they made those signings (had the ban last year) so, yeah, we'll see at the end of the season. They need to sort their defending out. I’m not convinced by Frank either, just one thing that managers are always judged by is their signings and they look good.

 

[MikeKing]

He does seem to have done better business in the transfer market - Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech, Chilwell all quality, but time will tell

I'm sure if Ole had signed - Haaland (we know he wanted him) Sancho (he certainly wanted him too) Bruno, Telles, AWB then you could compare who did better business.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I'm sure if Ole had signed - Haaland (we know he wanted him) Sancho (he certainly wanted him too) Bruno, Telles, AWB then you could compare who did better business.

If me Aunty had b*llocks etc

 

[RedSky]

Well, it’s early days since they made those signings (had the ban last year) so, yeah, we'll see at the end of the season. They need to sort their defending out. I’m not convinced by Frank either, just one thing that managers are always judged by is their signings and they look good.

David Moyes at United has similar stats to Lampard at Chelsea. That should tell you everything. Both 51% win rate, Lampard with a 30% loss rate, Moyes 31%. Moyes had us defending better too, as astonishing as that sounds. Lampard has Chelsea conceding 1.4 goals per game.

 

[MikeKing]

If me Aunty had b*llocks etc

They had the ban alright but as mentioned above, their defending is horrible. He is certainly building from the front, not like Ole who tried to start from the back. We might not be perfect defensively but we're way ahead of Chelsea I think, so even considering the ban they have signed favourable attackers... we haven't done that. If we they do better than us, it just could be because we lack those classic aunty b*llocks that anyone need to get over the line.

 

[Untd55]

That is why these kind of lists are hard to make. But I have to react when I see people putting a manager who came 3rd in league and went to semifinal in every other competition in bottom 3. In other words did better last year than most of other managers.


Not that I agree or disagree but that means nothing. They can coach a defensive structure but offers nothing in offense. I do like Potter but he is not on Solskjaer level, not saying that Solskjaer is world beater or will be.

I think people are often very harsh when it comes to players/managers in their own team. They love to underestimate what our own player/manager does. It is like green is always greener on the other side.

Solskjaer has a lot more money to spend on better players; that doesn't make him a better manager.

If Brighton had the money to spend an average of £130m every summer, don't you think they would have better attackers? And if they had better attackers, they probably would have beaten us, Chelsea, and Crystal Palace. Having more money doesn't make you a better manager.

Potter has Brighton dominating top sides in terms of possession with average players. The thing that is holding them back is not having good enough attackers, but that is a limitation of funds and should not be used to lower a manager's rating. Their average possession this season is 57.25%, which is ridiculously high for a club of their stature when you consider they have played Manutd, Chelsea, and Everton.

I think Potter is really showing the ability of a top manager.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

But how do you even "rank" their coaching ability based only on observations?

Even if you watched every single PL game (which you cant) you will only get a rough idea of how a certain team wants to play and even then there are a myrid of factors that impact the game outside of what coaching can do, even if you had all the stats in the world for every single game i cant see how you could draw any kind of assertive conclusion. Take Sheffield U for example. They were last seasons big suprise and Wilder was showered with praise and hailed as a great manager everywhere. This season though, they have been complete shit and almost looks doomed for the Championship already. I doubt Wilder suddenly became a worse coach over the summer

Another factor is that different managers are good at different kinds of jobs. Pulis and Fat Sam are experts at making smaller teams hard to beat by playing shit on a stick football and shithousing themselves to draws and tight wins. They would be awful at City or with us. Pep as another example is great at managing big egos and getting his superstar squads to produce some lovely football but if he had to manage Watford or Palace i would bet my left bollock he would be incredibly unhappy and take them straight down

And Ole is worse than Moyes? Really? The latter took the league champions and took them to 8th place, the other took a club in complete chaos and took them 6th. And stop with the disingenuous Cardiff bollocks please. Moyes relegated Sunderland in 16/17. Guess we should call him "failed Sunderland manager" or something like that?

Edit: And taking motivational and man management skills out of the equation is just daft. These players are still human and no amount of technical coaching or "patterns of play" is going to produce results or even good football if the players are completely demotivated and hates their managers guts

My ranking was based on assumed discernable ability to coach a system/pattern of play/etc. Not a manager as a whole. As I have stated in earlier posts, I rate OGS highly as a man manager and he is much better suited to our club than Moyes due to a pragmatic/defensive approach does not suit the goals of the club nor the abilities of most of our key attacking players.

As you have stated, different managers are suited to different jobs. And it is difficult to quantify a managers ability in all areas and rank them accordingly. Hence I proposed a ranking based on one specific element. Does that ranking reflect how I would rank him in relation to suitability as a manager for MUFC? No. He would easily be in the top 10. Would the ranking for OGS suitability as a manager for MUFC be the same for OGS as a manager for the likes of Burnley? No. Then I would rank him close to bottom due to the needs of Burnley, their playing squad and their current style of play. Hodgson and Moyes would suit the likes of Burnley.

 

[JNicholas]

But he has done nothing significant to be put in top 6 PL manager or even top 10 PL manager. How is that devaluing him. His football is not that good but he has organized their defence which is a credit to him (I have said that mutiple times in the arteta post).However, long term such boring football may not be sustainable. Again nothing devaluing. His football is actually boring to watch, if you don't agree that is fine. Also, I never said Emery did better than him, I just said it is funny how the expectation from him has suddenly become lower. If he finishes outside top 4 this season too then one has to question him just like emery was questioned. Nothing devaluing.

As for arsenal fans, well they will protect their manager doesn't mean he is a top 6 PL manager. All you have done so far is actually overrate his achievements and underrate others. You think by disagreeing with you I am devaluing Arteta, that is weird assumption one could have.

You miss the point with Arteta. You say he hasn't achieved anything?

He beat Man City and Chelsea on the way to winning the FA CUP after less than 20 games in charge. Pochettino for example won nothing in 4 years at Spurs which shows what an achievement it was.

 

[AshRK]

You miss the point with Arteta. You say he hasn't achieved anything?

He beat Man City and Chelsea on the way to winning the FA CUP after less than 20 games in charge. Pochettino for example won nothing in 4 years at Spurs which shows what an achievement it was.

You missed the context of my post. He has not achieved anything significant to be put as a Top 6 manager or even in top 10. I know Arteta winning the FA cup was amazing but the way Ole overcame 15 points to finish 3rd was also amazing, the way lampard after losing hazard and having a transfer ban finishing 4th was also significant. Just because arteta won the FA cup doesn't suddenly make him him a top 10 manager.

Also just to spoil your party Pochettino is much better manager than Arteta (so far at least).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Their average possession this season is 57.25%, which is ridiculously high for a club of their stature when you consider they have played Manutd, Chelsea, and Everton.

More and more teams in England opt for some kind of possession based football (compared to before, when most "lesser" teams would opt for, well, less ambitious tactics).

Norwich were in the top half * last season in terms of possession. They finished dead last, though, hopelessly adrift.

Of course, you could argue that Farke did everything right and simply had a shite group of players to work with. We'll see how he fares this season, I guess.

* 8th, to be exact.

 

[patty123]

11. Smith (mostly due to great signings - not sure if it's him or the scouting team. Also decent tactics).

13. Ole (not much pre-United but has had 2 spells of good football at United and signings have improved us)

I not Ole's #1 fan manager wise, but that BS of the highest order mate, smith who barely just survived due to losing 21 games the third highest in the league last season and winning only 9 despite spending 133 million, and you have him placed higher, nah not for me.

 

[RedSky]

You missed the context of my post. He has not achieved anything significant to be put as a Top 6 manager or even in top 10. I know Arteta winning the FA cup was amazing but the way Ole overcame 15 points to finish 3rd was also amazing, the way lampard after losing hazard and having a transfer ban finishing 4th was also significant. Just because arteta won the FA cup doesn't suddenly make him him a top 10 manager.

Also just to spoil your party Pochettino is much better manager than Arteta (so far at least).

Worth remembering that Arteta took over Arsenal in December. 61% win rate is bloody impressive to be fair. He's also managed to turn around Arsenals defense pretty quickly too. I've been impressed with what he's done, still early days mind.

Manager​	Games (All Comps)​	W​	D​	L​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Win %​	Draw %​	Loss %​
Arteta​	36​	22​	6​	8​	14​	56​	33​	+23​	61%​	17%​	22%​
Ole​	97​	55​	19​	23​	36​	176​	99​	+77​	57%​	20%​	24%​
Lampard​	63​	32​	12​	19​	16​	122​	89​	+33​	51%​	19%​	30%​

*sorted by win %

 

[Giggsyking]

I’m going to rank them based on their performance from the beginning of last season, 2019-20, as I only want to judge their current standards and it’s fair to the managers who only recently made it to the big time, like Smith. Reputation and previous achievements do not come into it.

1) Bielsa - Lucky to be first, but would be unlucky to be second. Great Championship season. Goes toe to toe with everybody, and always comes out deserving something like Leeds did against Pool and City. Just edges Klopp for me.

2) Klopp - Great job too. Won the league. Unlucky to be second.

3) Rodgers - Great job to actually come 5th despite the late season collapse, and has 9 points from 12 this season. Has got the best out of their best player Vardy too.

4) Ancelotti - Swayed by his start to this season. Absolutely fantastic.

5) Wilder - Limited resources in comparison to others. Did wonderfully to finished 9th with that SU team.

6) Mourinho - Done a good job since taking over. Would I take him back? Obviously yes over Ole, but not for someone like Pochettino. That said, he’ll get top 4 and maybe even mount a shock title race this season, considering 3 of his rivals have lost 7-2, 1-6 and 2-5.

7) Dyche - Very limited resources. Steady.

8) Pep - Would be top if I began from 2017, but as aforementioned, it’d be unfair to the others. He’s been poor since 2019-20 began and just lost 2-5. He has far more resources than anyone else too.

9) Nuno - Slightly overachieved, but he’s lucky to have Mendes.

10) Hasenhuttl - Decent. Southampton are where you’d expect them to be and he plays decent football.

11) Smith - Kept them up under harsh circumstances and beat the Champions 7-2 in possibly the most extraordinary result in PL history.

12) Arteta - Revived Arsenal and won a few cups, granted one doesn’t matter. He doesn’t exactly play good football but Arsenal are progressing, unlike us and even Chelsea.

13) Hodgson - Steady. Midtable, just like his club.

14) Bruce - See Hodgson.

15) Moyes - See Hodgson and Bruce. Honestly, you could easily mix these 3 around. Your generic British managers who will generally achieve the objective.

16) Potter - Overrated.

17) Bilic - Took WBA out of the dogfight that is the Championship, but hasn’t started well.

18) Lampard - Has never impressed me. Took Chelsea from 3rd and EL to 4th and nothing, granted without Hazard. He’s lucky they had a transfer ban last season or he’d be lower than Ole. Seems a mouthy so and so too. Who is he in the managerial world to challenge Klopp and Mourinho? He has no visible tactic.

19) Ole - A bad manager, like Lampard. No visible plan, like Lampard. Reliant on individual quality, like Lampard. Only in the job because of his playing career, like Lampard. Finished one point above Lampard but could make transfers, unlike Lampard. And he’s started this season much worse, so I’ve got to put him lower.

20) Parker - Completely hapless. Should have lost to Brentford. They’d add more to the league.

I agree but Lampard 18, Ole 19, Jose 20

 

[AshRK]

Worth remembering that Arteta took over Arsenal in December. 61% win rate is bloody impressive to be fair. He's also managed to turn around Arsenals defense pretty quickly too. I've been impressed with what he's done, still early days mind.

​

Manager​	Games (All Comps)​	W​	D​	L​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Win %​	Draw %​	Loss %​
Arteta​	​ 36​	​ 22​	​ 6​	​ 8​	​ 14​	​ 56​	​ 33​	​ +23​	​ 61%​	​ 17%​	​ 22%​
Ole​	​ 97​	​ 55​	​ 19​	​ 23​	​ 36​	​ 176​	​ 99​	​ +77​	​ 57%​	​ 20%​	​ 24%​
Lampard​	​ 63​	​ 32​	​ 12​	​ 19​	​ 16​	​ 122​	​ 89​	​ +33​	​ 51%​	​ 19%​	​ 30%​

*sorted by win %

Again I am not saying he has not done a good job. The point of argument is this short stats doesn't put him in a top 6. Not too difficult to understand.

 

[RedSky]

Again I am not saying he has not done a good job. The point of argument is this short stats doesn't put him in a top 6. Not too difficult to understand.

I'm probably biased to be fair because I think people overrate Lampard. Think he's awful personally.

But I agree with you on the overrating of Arteta, can't be having him in the top 6 having only managed 36 games.

 

[AshRK]

I'm probably biased to be fair because I think people overrate Lampard. Think he's awful personally.

But I agree with you on the overrating of Arteta, can't be having him in the top 6 having only managed 36 games.

I always say this
Lampard : the most protected manager by the media
Ole: the most abused

 

[RashyForPM]

I agree but Lampard 18, Ole 19, Jose 20

Where’s Parker

 

[Giggsyking]

Where’s Parker

I dont care

 

[RashyForPM]

I dont care

True he doesn’t deserve to be in this league anyway.

 

[Bobcat]

My ranking was based on assumed discernable ability to coach a system/pattern of play/etc. Not a manager as a whole. As I have stated in earlier posts, I rate OGS highly as a man manager and he is much better suited to our club than Moyes due to a pragmatic/defensive approach does not suit the goals of the club nor the abilities of most of our key attacking players.

As you have stated, different managers are suited to different jobs. And it is difficult to quantify a managers ability in all areas and rank them accordingly. Hence I proposed a ranking based on one specific element. Does that ranking reflect how I would rank him in relation to suitability as a manager for MUFC? No. He would easily be in the top 10. Would the ranking for OGS suitability as a manager for MUFC be the same for OGS as a manager for the likes of Burnley? No. Then I would rank him close to bottom due to the needs of Burnley, their playing squad and their current style of play. Hodgson and Moyes would suit the likes of Burnley.

Fair enough, but even then there are many factors in place outside of just coaching. How long has he been there? What players does he have available? Do those players suit his goals in terms of playing style?

For example if a team concedes a lot of goals/chances it could be reasonable to suggest there are problems with the defensive coaching of that team. Or you could suggest they dont have the right players, the players are an ill fit for that tactic or the tactical set up is not good enough. Last year for example we conceded way to many goals from set pieces and corners. Does that mean our defensive coaching was bad? Not necessarily. De Gea almost never comes off his line, other teams knows this so they will often try and hit the ball into the 6 yard box, which very often becomes very dangerous because just the slightest touch can lead to a goal

Start of last season we could not even score in a brothel. Bruno arrives and what do you know? We start scoring again. I dont think that is because our attacking coaching suddenly turned good, but because Bruno is about a million times better than Lindgard/Pereira

I dont know man. Maybe my understanind is just shite, but i could never make a list like that

 

[marktan]

I not Ole's #1 fan manager wise, but that BS of the highest order mate, smith who barely just survived due to losing 21 games the third highest in the league last season and winning only 9 despite spending 133 million, and you have him placed higher, nah not for me.

Just my opinion, I like Smith, I think their signings last season were pretty good and they lined up reasonably well. Most teams spend when coming up from the Championship, but for Villa they had a lot of loan players like Tammy Abraham and Tuanzabe, so they had to spend on players like Konsa and Wesley as replacements. Their other signings like Mings, Douglas Luiz were largely all good.

They did struggle last season but they started off a lot better than they finished - and that was largely due to injuries. Mcginn, Wesley and Heaton all got long injuries - and that significantly weakened them. Especially up front - Samatta and Davies couldn't score a goal between them. They relied heavily on Graelish and Trezegurt sneaking goals in.

This season I think they've done the best business in the league relative to where they were last season. Watkins I think has a great all round game, and then you have Cash, Barley, Martinez and Troare, with Mcginn coming back from injury.

Of course I have to say this is tempered based on expectations - Dean Smith isnt a CL or title chasing manager, so I give him props for doing well relative to the team he has. Whereas for Ole, he's not a bad manager, but the expectation is higher and he's just not shown anything yet. He is taking us in the right direction but I can't shake the feeling it'll all fall of a cliff at a point in the future.

 

[FightDiegoFight]

I always say this
Lampard : the most protected manager by the media
Ole: the most abused

What a load of rubbish. Since his spending £200m+ this window, the media's go-to line concerning Lampard has been "no more excuses now" (and if you haven't heard that exact line repeatedly, you can't have consumed much media at all). If his achieving CL qualification last season needed so much "excusing", surely an Ole being judged by similar standards would have been ridiculed for merely doing the same, at his second attempt, after spending £200m. Instead, he widely garnered (just about deserved, imo) praise for turning it around and getting top four.

If Lampard's still struggling next year after spending another £100m I doubt I'll be able to turn on Sky Sports and hear pundits telling people he still "needs time" and/or that he's "been let down by the board" because they didn't buy him another £100m player on top too! That's protection.

 

[AshRK]

What a load of rubbish. Since his spending £200m+ this window, the media's go-to line concerning Lampard has been "no more excuses now" (and if you haven't heard that exact line repeatedly, you can't have consumed much media at all). If his achieving CL qualification last season needed so much "excusing", surely an Ole being judged by similar standards would have been ridiculed for merely doing the same, at his second attempt, after spending £200m. Instead, he widely garnered (just about deserved, imo) praise for turning it around and getting top four.

If Lampard's still struggling next year after spending another £100m I doubt I'll be able to turn on Sky Sports and hear pundits telling people he still "needs time" and/or that he's "been let down by the board" because they didn't buy him another £100m player on top too! That's protection.

Which media outlet are you following! Please let me know too.

 

[Dancfc]

I always say this
Lampard : the most protected manager by the media
Ole: the most abused

Not true.

 

[AshRK]

Not true.

He definitely gets more protection in comparison to Ole. Nothing not true about that unless one wants to live in denial.

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

1. Klopp
2. Espirito Santo
3. Bielsa
4. Guardiola
5. Mourinho
6. Ancelotti
7. Rodgers
8. Wilder
9. Hasenhuttl
10. Potter
11. Dyche
12. Hodgson
13. Solskjaer
14. Bilic
15. Lampard
16. Smith
17. Parker
18. Bruce
19. Moyes
UNKNOWN. Arteta

 

[MikeKing]

If Lampard's still struggling next year after spending another £100m I doubt I'll be able to turn on Sky Sports and hear pundits telling people he still "needs time" and/or that he's "been let down by the board" because they didn't buy him another £100m player on top too! That's protection.

Different people in the media say different things. I don't think you can claim any unreasonable protection for Ole, unless the context is just a vague comparison to Lampard. To prove Ole receives massive pressure just look after the first two games. Chelsea had 3 points United had 3 points, yet already Ole might be out of a job soon was what the discussion was about. Didn't hear a lot about Lampard then, but maybe I haven't seen every report on it? That perspective got pushed hard after getting a real boost from us losing to Tottenham in a spectacular fashion. Chelsea drew against a bottom team, once again I didn't hear much about Lampard losing his job because of it.

After we won against Newcastle and PSG while you drew to Southampton and Sevilla things have cooled off from Ole, but it was hectic initially despite not much difference in results to Lampard. It's not inconceivable to expect the media pressure on Lampard to be turned up quite a bit if they don't win tomorrow. If Chelsea lose and the pressure wont arrive then your initial point has been proven way wrong.

 

[NoPace]

Great Managers:
Klopp - Better in Europe than Pep and 98% as good a league manager
Guardiola - See above
Bielsa - Drops to 3rd because he's volatile, which is like being injury prone when you're a manager

Solid at a plan A that is relatively attacking so could be a big team coach and do well for a while:
Hasenhuttl - I like how Soton play
Ancelotti - Solid, not an idiot, players like him
Rodgers - Probably shouldn't have fallen love with 3 at the back but basically a B+ attacking coach which is pretty good
Potter - His team might be the best coached in their first 2/3rds in the Prem but he keeps using Connolly instead of demanding some sort of giant striker to turn their possession into crossing or finding a way to make it work with more 1-2s out wide and I don't like that, but obviously he doesn't have a ton of talent.

I have no idea anymore:
Mourinho - I don't find Spurs impressive but he's done well

Solid at a plan A that is relatively defensive so could be a mid-table coach and do well for a while, or even a strong season or two for a big club if they had the right veterans and positional types to fit in their system:
Espirito Santo - Tops this list because he's shown flexibility going from playing without wingers when it made sense to back to playing with them
Wilder - His team should suffer from being probably the 2nd slowest in the Prem after Burnley but they don't. Points for innovation especially in an era when 2 rock-solid CBs are hard to find and in his system you really only need one sweeper type and then 2 mobile CBs who can play and those are just more common these days (Shaw, Lindelof and Rojo would all do well for him for instance)
Dyche - They stay up, but he loses points for me for not even trying to find a solution at the wing opposite McNeil. Uses his strikers decently.
Hodgson - Failed at Liverpool but Palace are solid every weak and he's not afraid to try new or young players and picks his team more on merit than most

Can win a big game and aren't shambolic but not really a fan:
Solskjaer - He could join the above group I think in time at his next, smaller, job if he embraces an identity as a defensive coach who gets more than most out of his 2 strikers in a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2

Can't win a big game but aren't shambolic but not really a fan:
Moyes - Keeps dropping Diop for reasons unknown and has no idea what to do with the useful Haller, but otherwise decent. Not enough upsets or consistency post-Everton to be in the defensive Plan A group
Bruce - Should really be in the defensive group considering the fine job he's done at Newcastle but I assume that ranking won't look good in a year.

Just a guy:
Bilic - Sure
Smith - Has talent this year and will get some results. Gets points for finding a working CB pairing but they aren't exactly reinventing the wheel tactically. Teams plays hard.
Parker - Doesn't look good so far and he's done the "play 2 fullbacks on one wing and hope that works" thing when it hasn't for anyone since Emery had Gaya/Mathieu going a decade back in like 2011

Can't say yet:
Arteta - Promising!
Lampard - I think he's smart and rates the right players generally, but I have no idea if he's going to be a good manager or end up as a DOF

 

[Ramshock]

This is a stealthy

...
20. Solskjaer

thread if ever I saw one.

#LUHG = Love Jose Hate Ole

1 Klopp
2 Pep
3 Ancelotti
4 Bielsa
5 Potter
6 Arteta
The rest I think are trash

fecking state of this

 

[Ramshock]

Yeah this is a circle jerk for the plastic brigade

 

[Dancfc]

He definitely gets more protection in comparison to Ole. Nothing not true about that unless one wants to live in denial.

Well Frank has never had a pundit campaign for his contract extension on live TV....

He got a bit of leeway before he had a transfer window, now he's (rightly) being scrutinized after poor result just like everyone else. Ole was getting his hole licked during his interim spell, it was similarly after he had a transfer window he started being treated like the rest of them.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Another Ole bashing thread.

Isn't it ironic how the same posters are rating other managers for showing promise in a difficult position but the same is not extended for our own manager? I mean he is at United and spent x amount. He should be getting us a title otherwise he is shite.

Let's ignore tangible progress/tactical advances and the fact that he got us 3rd with gaping holes in our squad because he is just a good people manager. This is the latest excuse now. Before this it was can't beat low blocks; Or he can't compete tactically with the best (having beaten City Chelsea and PSG twice last year), or its just Bruno effect or players finally playing well or its just Newcastle. It boggles me how people can come up with these "opinions" and try to pass it off as facts - a lot of posts on this thread assuming Ole is just somebody to please others and keep them happy - this is an opinion. In fact on basis of points /hoh/tactics (i.e actual data points that can be used for analysis) one could argue Ole is actually doing a good job and he's one of our own! Support him you nincompoops!

 

[trims]

Worth remembering that Arteta took over Arsenal in December. 61% win rate is bloody impressive to be fair. He's also managed to turn around Arsenals defense pretty quickly too. I've been impressed with what he's done, still early days mind.

​

Manager​	Games (All Comps)​	W​	D​	L​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Win %​	Draw %​	Loss %​
Arteta​	​ 36​	​ 22​	​ 6​	​ 8​	​ 14​	​ 56​	​ 33​	​ +23​	​ 61%​	​ 17%​	​ 22%​
Ole​	​ 97​	​ 55​	​ 19​	​ 23​	​ 36​	​ 176​	​ 99​	​ +77​	​ 57%​	​ 20%​	​ 24%​
Lampard​	​ 63​	​ 32​	​ 12​	​ 19​	​ 16​	​ 122​	​ 89​	​ +33​	​ 51%​	​ 19%​	​ 30%​

*sorted by win %

It more impressive when you realize that 20% of Arteta's games were against Liverpool and Man City.

 

[RedNed77]

Yeah this is a circle jerk for the plastic brigade

Another Ole bashing thread.

Isn't it ironic how the same posters are rating other managers for showing promise in a difficult position but the same is not extended for our own manager? I mean he is at United and spent x amount. He should be getting us a title otherwise he is shite.

Let's ignore tangible progress/tactical advances and the fact that he got us 3rd with gaping holes in our squad because he is just a good people manager. This is the latest excuse now. Before this it was can't beat low blocks; Or he can't compete tactically with the best (having beaten City Chelsea and PSG twice last year), or its just Bruno effect or players finally playing well or its just Newcastle. It boggles me how people can come up with these "opinions" and try to pass it off as facts - a lot of posts on this thread assuming Ole is just somebody to please others and keep them happy - this is an opinion. In fact on basis of points /hoh/tactics (i.e actual data points that can be used for analysis) one could argue Ole is actually doing a good job and he's one of our own! Support him you nincompoops!

Agreed, this thread is an utter car crash.

 

[georgipep]

I’ve left out Parker, Lampard and Arteta because they’re simply far too new to management to be able to compare and contrast with the others.
Pretty much all things considered, style of play, signings, ability to motivate, results, game management, etc.

1. Klopp
2. Pep
3. Mourinho
4. Ancelotti
5. Bielsa
6. Rodgers
7. Santo
8. Hasenhutl
9. Hodgson
10. Dyche
11. Wilder
12. Potter
13. Ole
14. Bruce
15. Bilic
16. Moyes
17. Smith

Can make 11 players play as a collective unit:
Klopp, Pep, Ancellotti, Bielsa, Rodgers, Santo, Potter.
Arguably Arteta based on what Arsenal has shown.

Can make 11 players defend as a team:
Mourinho, Dyche, Wilder, Bruce and Moyes.

Attempts something:
Hassenhuttl.

"Keep the lads happy, let them try something". AKA I don't know what the fnuuuk i'm doing so I will just stay positive and hope things go the right way.
Bilic, OGS Lampard.

I would put Potter higher, but I'm not sure who to drop. Wilder? Hassenhutl?

Just curious why you put Potter and Wilder so low. Wilder did great for multiple seasons in a row with Sheffield, and Potter has done great wherever he's been. The current season is too young to say how they're doing - although Brighton despite its losses is widely praised for its football. So I'd think they are both showing more than Hodgson and I'd have them on a par with Hasenhüttl. (No idea where I'd put Dyche.)

1. Klopp
2. Pep

3. Mourinho
4. Biesla
5. Ancelloti
6. Rodgers

7. Hasenhutl (style of play)
8. Potter (style of play)
9. Nuno (helped by having Portugal's XI)
10. Wilder (lowered due to signings this seasons - smells of a repeat of Eddie Howe)

These lot you could probably substitute for the other and see no difference to the level of football
11. Smith (mostly due to great signings - not sure if it's him or the scouting team. Also decent tactics).
12. Hodgson - flip flop
13. Ole (not much pre-United but has had 2 spells of good football at United and signings have improved us)
14. Bruce - tumescent football but has signed well throughout his career
15. Dyche - even more tumescent football but has managed to get Burnley playing above their level on no budget for like 5 years

16. Moyes - Downhill ever since Everton
* Bilic - no idea really didn't watch much of West Ham before or WBA now

The state of this. You have Dean Smith dead last and behind OGS after he beat Liverpool 7-2 and orchestrated a massive survival last season? They basically started last season with 10 squad members and had to buy a whole new team, this year the buys have more meat and they have won three on the trot. OGS is without a doubt the least competent manager in the league, outside of United he would never be hired and would look lost within two weeks. Not saying Smith would do way better than Solskjær at United given the many important factors to lead a big club, but no way in hell would Solskjær better Smith at Villa, or Moyes at West Ham or Bruce at Newcastle for that matter. For those clubs to survive, they would need a system - our guy doesn’t have it.

I have no idea what to say about Parker tbh.

Others:
Tier A. World class. Top managers who make teams better than they are. Excellent in every area of manager's job.
Mourinho
Klopp
Pep
Ancelotti
Bielsa

Tier B. Very good managers who are talented enough but not top class managers.
Rodgers
Santo
Hasenhutl

Tier C. Solid, average managers who are good for specific job in middle table club. Not so much tactically strong but they know basic stuff. And little more than that.
Hodgson
Dyche
Wilder
Potter
Bruce
Bilic
Smith
Moyes

Promising managers. They have something but still early to say where they will belong.
Arteta and Lampard.

Tier D. Out of depth on higher level of football. Managers for clubs in minor leagues.
You know the name

I’m going to rank them based on their performance from the beginning of last season, 2019-20, as I only want to judge their current standards and it’s fair to the managers who only recently made it to the big time, like Smith. Reputation and previous achievements do not come into it.

1) Bielsa - Lucky to be first, but would be unlucky to be second. Great Championship season. Goes toe to toe with everybody, and always comes out deserving something like Leeds did against Pool and City. Just edges Klopp for me.

2) Klopp - Great job too. Won the league. Unlucky to be second.

3) Rodgers - Great job to actually come 5th despite the late season collapse, and has 9 points from 12 this season. Has got the best out of their best player Vardy too.

4) Ancelotti - Swayed by his start to this season. Absolutely fantastic.

5) Wilder - Limited resources in comparison to others. Did wonderfully to finished 9th with that SU team.

6) Mourinho - Done a good job since taking over. Would I take him back? Obviously yes over Ole, but not for someone like Pochettino. That said, he’ll get top 4 and maybe even mount a shock title race this season, considering 3 of his rivals have lost 7-2, 1-6 and 2-5.

7) Dyche - Very limited resources. Steady.

8) Pep - Would be top if I began from 2017, but as aforementioned, it’d be unfair to the others. He’s been poor since 2019-20 began and just lost 2-5. He has far more resources than anyone else too.

9) Nuno - Slightly overachieved, but he’s lucky to have Mendes.

10) Hasenhuttl - Decent. Southampton are where you’d expect them to be and he plays decent football.

11) Smith - Kept them up under harsh circumstances and beat the Champions 7-2 in possibly the most extraordinary result in PL history.

12) Arteta - Revived Arsenal and won a few cups, granted one doesn’t matter. He doesn’t exactly play good football but Arsenal are progressing, unlike us and even Chelsea.

13) Hodgson - Steady. Midtable, just like his club.

14) Bruce - See Hodgson.

15) Moyes - See Hodgson and Bruce. Honestly, you could easily mix these 3 around. Your generic British managers who will generally achieve the objective.

16) Potter - Overrated.

17) Bilic - Took WBA out of the dogfight that is the Championship, but hasn’t started well.

18) Lampard - Has never impressed me. Took Chelsea from 3rd and EL to 4th and nothing, granted without Hazard. He’s lucky they had a transfer ban last season or he’d be lower than Ole. Seems a mouthy so and so too. Who is he in the managerial world to challenge Klopp and Mourinho? He has no visible tactic.

19) Ole - A bad manager, like Lampard. No visible plan, like Lampard. Reliant on individual quality, like Lampard. Only in the job because of his playing career, like Lampard. Finished one point above Lampard but could make transfers, unlike Lampard. And he’s started this season much worse, so I’ve got to put him lower.

20) Parker - Completely hapless. Should have lost to Brentford. They’d add more to the league.

1) Klopp- won the league and Champions league
2) Pep- won everything, but seemed to have lost his way recently
3) Carlo- won the league in 4 different countries and CL 3 times, Everton having their best start in donkey years
4) Bielsa- plays a fantastic style of football,
5) Jose- no the manager he once was, but seems to be getting right ATM
6) Nuno- has his way of playing and it works,
7) Hasenhuttl- turned it right around from looking like getting the sack after losing 9-0
8) Rodgers- started off well last season before bellyflopping, and started this season OK
9) Smith- smashing Liverpool 7-2 can’t be a bad manager to do that.
10) Dyshe- see nuno, but more boring
11) Arteta- turned it around at Arsenal but too new to management to be any higher
12) Hodgeson- solid
13) Bruce- Solid
14) Wilder- interesting style of play but seems to have been found out this season.
15) Lampard- good style with the ball, but all over the shop without it.
16) Parker- Nice Guy, has the players playing for him but the quality in his squad isn’t their
17) Potter- plays good football but he is hopeless at setting his side to defend set plays.
18) Ole- done well when he was the caretaker but now the only reason he’s still has a job is because of Bruno.
19) Bilic- crap when managing West Ham in the premiership and he’s been crap again in the premiership with West Brom
20) Moyes- thundercnut and West Ham have been better since he got Covid

I think Ole is firmly in the group of managers that would not get another job in this league if sacked.

Ole, Parker, Moyes and Billic.

Our manager, Ole.

This is quite good but I'd move both Bruce & Moyes up.

I think Bruce is quite underrated but he's been a very solid manager in the Championship/PL for a long, long time. He does a job any club in the bottom 10 in terms of keeping them safe.

Moyes is the same - he's a good coach in the bottom 10 level. I'd trust him to keep them safe from relegation. The likes of Bruce and Moyes have a place in the PL but just not at the top end clubs. Their level is bottom 10 and they do very well there.

I think Wilder and Potter still have a lot to prove before you can put them ahead of them, though Potter's had a promising start. Dyche as well has done well with Burnley, but could easily end up with his reputation heading down if he went elsewhere - see Tony Pulis.

The standard of managers in the Prem is insane, very tough to decide. Here it goes:

1. Klopp
2. Mourinho
3. Ancelotti
4. Bielsa
5. Espirito Santo
6. Rodgers
7. Wilder
8. Dyche
9. Guardiola
10. Lampard
11. Bilic
12. Arteta
13. Bruce
14. Hassenhutl
15. Potter
16. Solskjaer
17. Hodgson
18. Smith
19. Moyes
20. Parker

Edit: I was probably too kind on Bilic and Ole and harsh on Arteta and Hodgson but oh well.

I think Parker and Moyes would get another job in the league, at some stage. Parker because he's young and English. Moyes because some teams will think he can keep them up. Not sure about Bilic. Not sure about Ole either. Definitely not at a club at the top end.

1. Klopp
2. Ancelotti
3. Bielsa
4. Guardiola
5. Mourinho
6. Dyche
7. Wilder
8. Rodgers
9. Espirito Santo
10. Bruce

These 10 managers still add real value to their teams, their clubs or the game at large imho.

It is hard to judge, but what I can base it on is the clubs that would least benefit from changing manager. Although not fully judging the transfers they have made. Some are hard to judge though like Bilic.
I think Newcastle should aim higher than having Bruce too.

1 Klopp
2 Anchelotti
3 Pep
4 Espirito Santo
5 Rodgers
6 Wilder
7 Hassenhutl
8 Dyche
9 Bielsa ¨
10 Potter
11 Arteta
12 Dean Smith
13 Mourinho
14 Hodgeson
15 Moyes
16 Bruce
17 Bilic
18 Ole
19 Lampard
20 Parker

Klopp
Pep
Carlo
Jose
Bielsa
Arteta
Nuno Santo
Rodgers

The rest are average.

1) Klopp
2) Pep
3) Ancelloti
4) Bielsa (Probably warrants being higher but I haven't seen that much of him personally to rank him higher on my own list)
5) Rodgers
6) Nuno
7) Mourinho
8) Hassenhutl
9) Dyche (Even though his football isn't my cup of tea)
10) Arteta

Don't really care to rank the others but Ole is in the bottom three, Moyes not far from him. Steve Bruce, Parker and Bilic not far away either. Lampard is probably around 16 or so.

Ancelotti over Mourinho, Bilic and Moyes clearly over Ole too.

That was then this is now. West Ham are a formidable team. Manchester United were simply never his level but for a mid table team he is a decent coach. Moyes is better than Ole, much better.

A more tier ranked approach to this would be beneficial:

Tier 1: Can coach a team to play cohesive attacking(counter, possession and create chances against low block) and defensive (pressing and/or pragmatic) football.
Pep, Klopp, Potter,
Tier 2: Can coach a team to play cohesive attacking(counter, possession and create chances against low block) football.
Rodgers
Tier 3:Can coach a team to play cohesive defensive (pressing and/or pragmatic) football.
Mourinho,Hodgson, Dyche, Hassenhuttel, Moyes.
Tier 4: Go on lads, express yourselves on the pitch.
Lampard, OGS, Parker.

I think the rest are hard to evaluate. Like Ancelotti. He is known for being good with the players on a personal level, but it is hard to evaluate the tactical approach for Everton. Is he just good at putting 11 players together with the abilties and knowledge on how to play(I.e Allan and James brought in because they knew how to do certain things? And should not this ability be valued as well?) or is the seemingly cohesive defensive and attacking performances down to active coaching and input from manager/coaching team? And how to we factor in factors that are extremely difficult to quantify like improvement of the players through training and man management?

Ranking based on if they were all available but had no previous attachments to any club, what I would deem as pecking order for a standard club (so not necessarily big club going for big player name cause potential (for whatever reason). Purely managerial, weighing up both experience in survival and attributes to be suited to a bigger club (even if they aren't the same).

1. Jurgen Klopp
2. Pep Guardiola
3. Carlo Ancelotti
4. Jose Mourinho
5. Marcelo Bielsa
6. Nuno Espirito Santo
7. Brendan Rodgers
8. Ralph Hassenhuttl
9. Sean Dyche
10. Chris Wilder
11. Graham Potter
12. Roy Hodgson
13. David Moyes
14. Dean Smith
15. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
16. Frank Lampard
17. Mike Arteta
18. Steve Bruce
19. Slavan Bilic
20. Scott Parker

Top 5 easy, for current level, past achievements, immediate/long term success (some like Mourinho way more towards immediate), but general years of backing. Bielsa maybe controversial to have there, but the guy is a purist and as a coach, has successfully implemented his style successfully wherever he's been, for years. Doesn't care about the level he's at, just wants to be trusted. Gotta admire that.

6-8 as kind of Mourinho/Pep/Klopp wannabes.

9-14 firmly the mid table group who have done alright in the recent past or shown they can keep sides up, but that being their limit.

15-17 wildcards... And I'm probably one of the people who defend Ole the most! If we're being honest all 3 of him, Lampard and Arteta are incredibly lucky to be in big managerial jobs, with nothing showing they should be there apart from being good players, which has no relevance to being a good manager. But sometimes they pop up to be good managers in time, so who knows. This isn't ruling them out, but they just aren't proven for anything past taking decent squads to perform roughly at their level. You need more than that to be a successful lower table manager, or a true title challenger.

18-20 - relegation tier. Bilic, Bruce and Parker are nothing managers really and easy bottom 3 IMO.

1. Pep
2. Klopp
3. Bielsa
4. Ancelotti
5. Mourinho
6. Hasenhutl
7. Santo
8. Dyche
9. Hodgson
10. Rodgers
11. Ole
12. Wilder
13. Potter
14. Bruce
15. Bilic
16. Moyes
17. Smith

Just wanted to remind all of you how clueless you are.

 

[Bastian]

Just wanted to remind all of you how clueless you are.

I stand by what I wrote. Keep enjoying being condescending.

 

[paulscholes18]

Just wanted to remind all of you how clueless you are.

Stand by with what I wrote. Needed 1 point from 2 CL games to get us to the KO rounds and he blew it

 

[georgipep]

Stand by with what I wrote. Needed 1 point from 2 CL games to get us to the KO rounds and he blew it

Because that's the criteria to rank PL coaches, especially considering our group

 

[RashyForPM]

Just wanted to remind all of you how clueless you are.

I updated Ole to the 9th best in another thread in November and am now firmly Ole in. So instead of being a sad guy rummaging through threads because you want to vindicate yourself in some weird way using posts from October, take your mass quoting and do one.

Like seriously, we’re joint top and you want to wind up fellow United fans using posts from months ago? While opposition fans are finding anything they can get their hands on to put us down most likely out of fear?

 

[georgipep]

The worst and saddest part is that people can't seem to find the strength within to accept they may have been wrong and own their mistake.

“The earlier you admit to your mistakes, the more time you would have to learn and grow from them.”