Rank the PL coaches

[paulscholes18]

Can you remind me of the bad spells? Especially the recent ones. Since you say we go from good to bad, I guess there was at least one recently.

And while you're at it, can you tell me which manager doesn't have bad spells?

Last calendar year in the league it was 4 spells 2 poor & 2 excellent
1st Jan - 1st Feb: Won 1 Drew 1 Lost 3
2nd Feb - End of season: W 9 D 4
19th Sep - Nov 1st: W 2 D 1 L 3
2nd Nov - 31st Dec: W7 D2

We wont win the league by playing in spells, need to be consistent throughout. As you can see it’s patchy, not like we have won like 3-5 in a row then lost 1 then won the next 3-5 matches


Let’s take a look at how we did in what I would say have been our 5 biggest games of the year (6 if you want to be pedantic)

CC SF V Man City L
F.A Cup SF V Chelsea L
PL V Leicester W
EL SF V Savilla L
CL V RB Leipzig L

 

[Grande]

To be honest, I think @georgipep has a legitimate point in hanging out to dry the most eager dismissers in this thread. And before anyone jumps to conclusions - no, it’s not because Solskjær has proved he is one of the best managers currently working in the PL.

But for all those who think that you can judge managerial quality by looking at the league table in October, or by your gut feeling after a cup loss, and by ignoring statistical evidence, behind the scenes assesments and contextual considerations, concluding that Lampard is a better manager than Solskjær after three games in a league season shows you do not know how to assess managerial work. Simply.

Last calendar year in the league it was 4 spells 2 poor & 2 excellent
1st Jan - 1st Feb: Won 1 Drew 1 Lost 3
2nd Feb - End of season: W 9 D 4
19th Sep - Nov 1st: W 2 D 1 L 3
2nd Nov - 31st Dec: W7 D2

We wont win the league by playing in spells, need to be consistent throughout. As you can see it’s patchy, not like we have won like 3-5 in a row then lost 1 then won the next 3-5 matches


Let’s take a look at how we did in what I would say have been our 5 biggest games of the year (6 if you want to be pedantic)

CC SF V Man City L
F.A Cup SF V Chelsea L
PL V Leicester W
EL SF V Savilla L
CL V RB Leipzig L

It’s hard to tell if you’re serious. A) You want a three game ‘patch’ with two losses in between 24 unbeaten league games to caoun as evidence of a pattern of patchiness? Seriously? B) You want to consider that patches without looking at the context of this year’s preseason? Really? C) You use this as evidence that United have not yet proven to be League winners this season? You need proof to know that? What did you expect this season? D) You want to be taken seriously claiming that Coca Cola Mouse cup SF 1 (I expect you didn’t mean the game we won) was a bigger game than away to PSG in the CL? As in not facetious and manipulative, but as in honest opinion? Can I quote you on that for the rest of your life?

I really don’t know what to make of that post.

 

[marktan]

I disagree. You can see from the more than sizeable proportion of supporters who backed him to the hilt that it was remarkably easy to well, support the club and it's manager through thick and thin.

It's a shame that others among us didn't do the same.

Should we have supported Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho through thick and thin?

I've never disparaged Ole, but I ranked him low because relative to his position (manager of United) he hadn't achieved much. At the time we'd lost to Arsenal and he was playing Pogba as a DM with no real coherent play style.

If he manages a title challenge of course he deserves to be ranked higher, his signings ive always said have been largely good, but there's too many people counting their chickens before they've hatched in this thread. We draw the next 3 games and suddenly people want Ole out again. Swings and roundabouts. Better to wait until he's done with the season to actually assess him. He's a relative novice to the big leagues which is why it's easy to rank him low thus far.

 

[TwoSheds]

Klopp
Mourinho
Guardiola
Hasenhuttl (maybe? I really don't know with this guy)
Rodgers
Ancelotti
Ole
Bielsa
Nuno
Dyche
Moyes
Hodgson
Wilder
Lampard
Smith
Arteta
Parker
Bruce
Potter
Allardyce (I just think he's had his day a long time ago, he was decent once)

 

[georgipep]

Don't be condescending, please. You're not the arbiter of the Caf.

I acknowledge and apologize for the condescending tone. I've taken too far my original intention to remind people how quickly perspectives can change and how we, as Manchester United supporters, should, well, support our manager a lot more.

I am happy that people spreading unnecessary negativity and vile language across the Caf are being monitored, warned and punished. Actually, I hope this is done a lot more.

 

[Odin]

Last calendar year in the league it was 4 spells 2 poor & 2 excellent
1st Jan - 1st Feb: Won 1 Drew 1 Lost 3
2nd Feb - End of season: W 9 D 4
19th Sep - Nov 1st: W 2 D 1 L 3
2nd Nov - 31st Dec: W7 D2

We wont win the league by playing in spells, need to be consistent throughout. As you can see it’s patchy, not like we have won like 3-5 in a row then lost 1 then won the next 3-5 matches


Let’s take a look at how we did in what I would say have been our 5 biggest games of the year (6 if you want to be pedantic)

CC SF V Man City L
F.A Cup SF V Chelsea L
PL V Leicester W
EL SF V Savilla L
CL V RB Leipzig L

To get into a semi you need to get through a quarter. Nice cherrypicked stats you've got there...

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Klopp
Mourinho
Guardiola
Hasenhuttl (maybe? I really don't know with this guy)
Rodgers
Ancelotti
Ole
Bielsa
Nuno
Dyche
Moyes
Hodgson
Wilder
Lampard
Smith
Arteta
Parker
Bruce
Potter
Allardyce (I just think he's had his day a long time ago, he was decent once)

Bielsa better manager than Ole, i think Bielsa is even worshipped by Pep, but otherwise thats probably near enough spot on. Of course if we are talking entire careers, Pep and Jose way out in front at 1 and 2 with Carlo 3rd

 

[paulscholes18]

To get into a semi you need to get through a quarter. Nice cherrypicked stats you've got there...

So you think a quarter final is as big a game than a semi final? I don’t think I have “cherrypicked” anything I said what I thought our 5 biggest games of the season were, your 5 will probably be different which is obviously fine.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

So you think a quarter final is as big a game than a semi final? I don’t think I have “cherrypicked” anything I said what I thought our 5 biggest games of the season were, your 5 will probably be different which is obviously fine.

I think the comments about cherry picking are related to the time periods and cut offs.

The 'negative' ones are very small - you can get 5 game periods that look poor for everyone.. Klopp, Pep, United 99 (quick glance at that season. We had a 6 game period of 0 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses...)

Lump the 4 periods you quote into 2 (to be a more meaningful time period) and you get..

10 5 3 and 9 3 3 (W D L).

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Klopp
Mourinho
Guardiola
Hasenhuttl (maybe? I really don't know with this guy)
Rodgers
Ancelotti
Ole
Bielsa
Nuno
Dyche
Moyes
Hodgson
Wilder
Lampard
Smith
Arteta
Parker
Bruce
Potter
Allardyce (I just think he's had his day a long time ago, he was decent once)

I'd pretty much go with this.

There might be a couple I'd swap a place or two but nothing massively contentious i.m.o.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Klopp
Mourinho
Guardiola
Hasenhuttl (maybe? I really don't know with this guy)
Rodgers
Ancelotti
Ole
Bielsa
Nuno
Dyche
Moyes
Hodgson
Wilder
Lampard
Smith
Arteta
Parker
Bruce
Potter
Allardyce (I just think he's had his day a long time ago, he was decent once)

Bielsa over Ole and Pep over Jose. Below that it is very difficult to answer so let's go with it.

 

[FootballHQ]

About 12 months ago I wasn't really sure what OGS was doing.

With Arsenal winning three again out of nowhere it's actually not that different to Arteta again.

After this game you had 25 points after 18 games:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50797990

Had also lost to West Ham, Palace, Bournemouth and Newcastle scoring just one goal earlier on in the season.

Then you picked up a bit although losing at Arsenal on NYD was a poor performance before having this shocker just before Bruno came in:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51115604

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51212537

Surprised you were actually 5th at that point but that was arguably your worst home performance since the Van Gaal era. 14 points off Leicester with just 14 games left shows what a mad run you went on to reel them off.

Sometimes just getting in one player gives you that spark and Bruno Fernandes certainly done that big time.

Bar the odd disappointing defeat your league form has been very good for 11 months now which is more commendable than usual given how insane the schedule is and big games every 3-4 days.

Not sure if Ole will ever win you a major trophy but think in 5-10 years time he'll certainly be looked at as one of those managers who got Man. United back on the serious path like Tommy Docherrty has been remembered as in last few days. Bit of swagger back and all that.

 

[paulscholes18]

I think the comments about cherry picking are related to the time periods and cut offs.

The 'negative' ones are very small - you can get 5 game periods that look poor for everyone.. Klopp, Pep, United 99 (quick glance at that season. We had a 6 game period of 0 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses...)

Lump the 4 periods you quote into 2 (to be a more meaningful time period) and you get..

10 5 3 and 9 3 3 (W D L).

No we didn’t, the worst 6 game spell was in November-December 1 W 3 D 2 L. Then went the rest of the season unbeaten and won the league.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

No we didn’t, the worst 6 game spell was in November-December 1 W 3 D 2 L. Then went the rest of the season unbeaten and won the league.

Yes we did. I included all games including CL... bit like other posts did when saying we lost the important games in 2020.

 

[Feed Me]

Some of the mental gymnastics in this thread

 

[RedSky]

In the last 30 league games we've lost 3 times, we have the highest win percentage in the league too. We are not patchy, we have found consistent form under Ole with Bruno being the catalyst.

 

[paulscholes18]

Yes we did. I included all games including CL... bit like other posts did when saying we lost the important games in 2020.

What a 5th round LC match and a CL game when we had already qualified?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Some of the mental gymnastics in this thread

I was just reading some of the posts and noted the ranking of Ole (fine, everyone has an opinion) and some of the rationale. Saw some comments about the number of games used to make a point... hence my reply that if you pick a small enough sample, every team/mngr could be said to have had a rough period.

I can see why @georgipep commented a lot of times.. some posters go out of their way to have digs at Ole (in several posts). Maybe gone a bit OTT in his/her replies but doesn't deserve some of the responses.... "post not poster"?

 

[soapythecat]

Just wanted to remind all of you how clueless you are.

What a loser, you’ve literally gone through a thread to pull out individual comments to try and make yourself look good. You need to get a life lad, because we are all happy Ole is doing well now - you do know that don’t you?

 

[FatherWolff]

I have no idea what to say about Parker tbh.

Others:
Tier A. World class. Top managers who make teams better than they are. Excellent in every area of manager's job.
Mourinho
Klopp
Pep
Ancelotti
Bielsa

Tier B. Very good managers who are talented enough but not top class managers.
Rodgers
Santo
Hasenhutl

Tier C. Solid, average managers who are good for specific job in middle table club. Not so much tactically strong but they know basic stuff. And little more than that.
Hodgson
Dyche
Wilder
Potter
Bruce
Bilic
Smith
Moyes

Promising managers. They have something but still early to say where they will belong.
Arteta and Lampard.

Tier D. Out of depth on higher level of football. Managers for clubs in minor leagues.
You know the name

Must say. You have really put some work into this! Did you forget about our Ollie G?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Must say. You have really put some work into this! Did you forget about our Ollie G?

By how this season is going.....i know nothing i guess.

 

[MacabbiUnited]

Last calendar year in the league it was 4 spells 2 poor & 2 excellent
1st Jan - 1st Feb: Won 1 Drew 1 Lost 3
2nd Feb - End of season: W 9 D 4
19th Sep - Nov 1st: W 2 D 1 L 3
2nd Nov - 31st Dec: W7 D2

We wont win the league by playing in spells, need to be consistent throughout. As you can see it’s patchy, not like we have won like 3-5 in a row then lost 1 then won the next 3-5 matches


Let’s take a look at how we did in what I would say have been our 5 biggest games of the year (6 if you want to be pedantic)

CC SF V Man City L
F.A Cup SF V Chelsea L
PL V Leicester W
EL SF V Savilla L
CL V RB Leipzig L

Your'e talking about the patches but disregard the factors.
January of last year we had a lot of first team players injured. I flew to England to that dire Burnley game, only to watch Phil Jones start at CB. Rashford injured, Pogba injured, Mct injured, Lindelof injured.

Than Bruno arrived and we got some first team players back and had a cracking rest of the season.

New season starts with practically no pre-season, like many other team who went deep in europe we struggled with fitness. After the Spurs game and on we are pretty consistent. Only 1 loss(in the league), few dire draws and a lot of good results.

Circumstences matter, you can't just ignore them.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that when we lose it's Ole's fault but when we win it's because of the players? Seems to be a lot of agenda's out there and a lot of managers being way too overrated. Especially all this love for Bielsa. Sure, Leeds are exciting to watch, but that doesn't make him a good manager. If anything, it makes him a very naive manager to think that he can come out and attack against every opponent he has. Truly great managers have more than just plan A. Personally, I don't like seeing us change from our best formation to start a game (3-5-2 instead of 4-2-3-1), but I see absolutely nothing wrong with starting with a 4-2-3-1 and changing it based on how the game is going. Mangers like Beilsa, Klopp and Pep have one style of playing and in my opinion are actually quite limited in their approach. Sure, it's great when it works, but when it's not, you need to be able to switch it up...

 

[Bilbo]

How is it fair to judge the PL coaches anyway? What is the criteria? Its a league that is rich in decorated coaches so its obvious who will be at the top if we count career achievements, and also unfair on coaches that are nearer the start of their career. If we look across the PL most of the current coaches could reasonably be classed as 'successful' in their role, otherwise they would have been replaced, so I've ranked each coach based on how well they have performed at their present club IMO:

Vastly improved
Klopp - goes without saying. Achieved great things with a relatively low net spend
Pep - won multiple trophies, albeit with a far greater spend. Underachieved in Europe
Dean Smith - arguable in this tier, but fair for me based on how far he has taken this team to date. Could be top 4 contenders if they avoid injuries

Improved
Ole - has transformed a bloated squad into an exciting team. On the cusp of moving up into the top tier
Bielsa - taken a sleeping giant out of the Championship and they look an established PL side now with potential to improve
Rodgers - has turned Leicester into a solid top 6 finisher. Punching above their weight but blew a top 4 finish
Hassenhutl - Overrated by many I feel but undoubtedly improved the side. 11th last season, and 9th now, but they could improve on that
Ancelotti - has taken Everton up a level after a good summer in the market
Nuno - has established Wolves as a top 8 PL team
Moyes - has West Ham playing better football now. Improvement is fragile but currently a fair assessment

Par
Mourinho - this one will be argued I'm sure as currently in 4th spot, but I feel the football has regressed and I see them declining under him
Hodgson - Look safe from any danger but not really kicking on as a team
Lampard - achieved a top 4 finish but they have backed him and the team haven't presently improved. Under pressure now
Arteta - hard to rank him. Under pressure but he has a big job there. Needs results to buy him time

The others I wont rank for various reasons.

 

[Samid]

Some hilariously bad takes in this thread. @Wumminator you know what to do.

 

[tjb]

The biggest issue with this thread is that people can't actually see the coaches coach. One bad season can change everything. Look at Arteta, what exactly were people seeing to suggest he was a good coach? What exactly weren't they seeing in Ole? Why has a renowned coach like Mourinho struggled? It's a lot if guesswork at times.

 

[Jim Beam]

Some people deserve Mourinho and watching his games 24/7

 

[Bobcat]

The biggest issue with this thread is that people can't actually see the coaches coach. One bad season can change everything. Look at Arteta, what exactly were people seeing to suggest he was a good coach? What exactly weren't they seeing in Ole? Why has a renowned coach like Mourinho struggled? It's a lot if guesswork at times.

The daft takes about Arteta was mostly just another stick to beat Ole with.

About two months into his tenure, people were banging on about "patters" and how "they saw a clear identity"

Like feck they did. Arsenal have been brutal to watch under Arteta and barely create chances. What is worse is you had journos spouting the same nonsense

 

[rimaldo]

arteta is just ahead of his time. you’re a brainless buffoon if you can’t see it. this seemingly listless and sedate style of play will be the norm in 20 years.

with pc gone mad and cancel culture, it is only a matter of time until wins, losses and draws are replaced solely by draws, so no one gets hurt feelings if their team fails to win. arteta is building an ethos at arsenal that is more than capable of this. at their best they can draw with just about anyone. he just needs to work on how to turn some of the losses into draws and the current draws into even better draws.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Some people deserve Mourinho and watching his games 24/7

Where to sign up?
Just kidding. Even his biggest fans (like me) are now aware that he is finished at top level.

 

[OutOfTowner]

arteta is just ahead of his time. you’re a brainless buffoon if you can’t see it. this seemingly listless and sedate style of play will be the norm in 20 years.

with pc gone mad and cancel culture, it is only a matter of time until wins, losses and draws are replaced solely by draws, so no one gets hurt feelings if their team fails to win. arteta is building an ethos at arsenal that is more than capable of this. at their best they can draw with just about anyone. he just needs to work on how to turn some of the losses into draws and the current draws into even better draws.

Arteta's football is staggering in its genius. His style of football is honed to effectively bore the opposition into submission. His expertly-crafted tactics are almost impossible to resist. After all, how can you possibly hope to beat Arsenal's languid style of anti-football when you can't even keep your fecking eyes open? You can't! Boom, you're done son!

 

[Dave Smith]

Pep
Klopp
Tuchel
Bielsa
Ancelotti
Rodgers
Nuno
Ole
Dyche
Moyes
Smith
Hasenhüttl
Potter
Hodgson
Parker
Artea
Fat Sam
Bruce
Heckingbottom
Mason

 

[adexkola]

The daft takes about Arteta was mostly just another stick to beat Ole with.

Can we all get over this please?

 

[The Corinthian]

arteta is just ahead of his time. you’re a brainless buffoon if you can’t see it. this seemingly listless and sedate style of play will be the norm in 20 years.

with pc gone mad and cancel culture, it is only a matter of time until wins, losses and draws are replaced solely by draws, so no one gets hurt feelings if their team fails to win. arteta is building an ethos at arsenal that is more than capable of this. at their best they can draw with just about anyone. he just needs to work on how to turn some of the losses into draws and the current draws into even better draws.

It’s true. Arteta even has the haircut and vacuous face befitting of this listless and sedate draw laden future of football.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can we all get over this please?

Isn't he genuinely being linked with Barca as well?

 

[adexkola]

Isn't he genuinely being linked with Barca as well?

Barcelona were putting those rumors out there to give Ole haters a stick to beat him with

 

[MO_Football92]

The daft takes about Arteta was mostly just another stick to beat Ole with.

About two months into his tenure, people were banging on about "patters" and how "they saw a clear identity"

Like feck they did. Arsenal have been brutal to watch under Arteta and barely create chances. What is worse is you had journos spouting the same nonsense

He's the worse coach across the entire 92 team football league. Unfortunately at Arsenal we don't sack our managers when they underperform

 

[FootballHQ]

The biggest issue with this thread is that people can't actually see the coaches coach. One bad season can change everything. Look at Arteta, what exactly were people seeing to suggest he was a good coach? What exactly weren't they seeing in Ole? Why has a renowned coach like Mourinho struggled? It's a lot if guesswork at times.

Yes that's a good point. Next best thing is really to see how they adapt during the game especially if their gameplan isn't working. Do they just do like for like subs or do subtle tweaks here and there that can wrestle back control from opposition?

I've said before I think OGS is underrated a fair bit here and has done a quietly impressive job on the whole in pushing Man. United back on right track in long term even if he won't win the big prizes.

Guess there's two ways of looking at the flat first half thing but ultimately it's a 90 minute game and he generally has no issue raising the tempo in second half and making good subs at the right time, never did Fergie any harm in the long run did it?

Arteta is miles off that currently. He desperately needs to find some sort of Fernandes type inspirational signing to get Arsenal going again in the summer otherwise he won't be making the 10th game next season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Barcelona were putting those rumors out there to give Ole haters a stick to beat him with

Rumour has it Laporta has a couple of accounts on here and just loves ruffling feathers.

 

[432JuanMata]

The daft takes about Arteta was mostly just another stick to beat Ole with.

About two months into his tenure, people were banging on about "patters" and how "they saw a clear identity"

Like feck they did. Arsenal have been brutal to watch under Arteta and barely create chances. What is worse is you had journos spouting the same nonsense

When Arteta won the F.A cup he was only just there and Ole had been under pressure earlier in the season and had doubt from our fans whether he could improve us. So with hindsight yeah it looks like people criticising Ole and praising Arteta looks dumb but at the time I can understand why.

The problem now is Ole has taking us up a notch since last season not enough to challenge for the league but too see a significant improvement while Arteta has taking Arsenal backwards.

I remember posting that it was too soon to judge Arteta on the FA cup but did think on the back of my head that he would be doing better things than Ole, I was so wrong on that.

I still have my doubts if Ole, even with money can challengefor the PL/CL but I have been proving wrong by him this season and have been happily surprised at the process he and the team have made. I’ll admit I was Ole out at one stage close to the start of the season.Unlike people on the caf that don’t post when we win because they wanted Ole gone I’ll happily say I’ve been proving wrong