[Santoryo]

Slightly concerning but also great that our last 3 MotM awards should go to defenders

Better than it going to DDG despite losing.

Well defense has been the area where the new signings have already been integrated. Add that with Varane and it's not surprising they get all the shine since it's been a stark contrast to what we've been used to recently.

In attack we still haven't integrated the new guys and have injuries there. In a few weeks when Antony is fully integrated and Martial return, we won't be seeing Elanga start nor Rashford play as CF which will elevate our play going forward and might start scoring a lot more goals.

 

[11101]

I don’t think this is true at all, in fact I’d say it’s the opposite. He’s come through the football system playing in usually deeper sitting defensive line teams, Sheffield United, Hull, even at Leicester they didn’t have a particularly high line. He’s good in that setup, he’s a big unit and his strengths which are aerial and man marking (when in a deep line) although he really lacks aggression.

If anything we want him to be a bit more individualistic, to take charge of situations and be more decisive. I think now everyone has accepted he’s been a poor signing for the fee but there’s no reason he can’t be a good backup to Varane. Because of his size Ole had him attacking balls and being front foot and that’s not his game, he constantly got caught in no man’s land and doesn’t have recovery pace. He can do a job as the deeper more passive CB, he’s good enough on the ball (albeit he’s nowhere near as good as people made him out to be when we signed him) and we need depth.

I think you've misunderstood me. The type of defending I'm talking about is what you are saying, man marking and sitting deep waiting for that man to come to you so you can tackle him. He's no good at organising himself to attackers who move across the line or reading when teammates need cover. When he tries he often ends up in no man's land.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

sadlermufc lied to us

 

[The Urban Goose]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

My MOTM last night

Where exactly is Malacia touching him to garner that reaction?

 

[Rossa]

I think Varane at his physical best is quicker than Rio, I think he is still very quick defender compared to the likes of VVD or Dias, but Rio was better technically and overall of course.

Rio was absolutely rapid before his injuries; he just rarely had to use his speed. He regularly kept up with, or bested, players like Torres and even Eto'o in their primes in foot races.

No matter - they are both deceptively fast, but only use it when needed because of their positioning. VVD is also very fast though. Dias is quite a bit slower.

 

[horsechoker]

Where exactly is Malacia touching him to garner that reaction?

Just a prostate check

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Rio was absolutely rapid before his injuries; he just rarely had to use his speed. He regularly kept up with, or bested, players like Torres and even Eto'o in their primes in foot races.

No matter - they are both deceptively fast, but only use it when needed because of their positioning. VVD is also very fast though. Dias is quite a bit slower.

Indeed, decision making and positioning are more important than pace for a defender.

 

[Grande]

Where exactly is Malacia touching him to garner that reaction?

It’s squeeky bum time?

 

[rimaldo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

fed up of being forced to play with like shaw, varane has turned his rectum into a 3d printer and made himself a new left back.

 

[Rossa]

Indeed, decision making and positioning are more important than pace for a defender.

Absolutely, anticipation is also critical. However, looking at the best modern defenses, you need speed from your centre backs to maintain a high line. Varane is rapid, and Martinez looks quick enough from what limited viewing I have. That's why I think Lindelöf and Maguire just don't work as a partnership - both are slow.

 

[JPRouve]

Maguire is an individualistic defender who likes to win his own battles. He will pick a player to follow in any given situation and that will be who he goes and tackles. He doesn't have much understanding of defending as a unit and it means everybody else ends up having to do the same thing, chasing one player around, and he doesn't spot when others need covering so as attackers move around the defensive line we lose them too easily.

To be fair it's a bit of an English thing, 'win your personal battle' and keep the number 9 quiet, but in modern football you then end up missing the flying winger or the midfielder coming from deep.

That's the impression that I have. And while it never occurred to me that it could be a development issue it does also apply to Shaw and Wan Bissaka.

 

[Cassidy]

Please stay fit

 

[Conor]

Please stay fit.

 

[littlepeasoup]

Not saying he'll have ever feigned an injury, but when your partner at the back is a fridge and you're flanked either side by dross maybe you take a little bit longer to come back from a minor issue than you usually would.

When you're a happy player in an established setup, you play through injuries to some degree. I'm sure he won't want to let his teammates down.

Wouldn't be surprised if he played 90% of our games this season.

 

[TheReligion]

Please stay fit

Please stay fit.

Madwinger all over again

Mods!

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Absolutely, anticipation is also critical. However, looking at the best modern defenses, you need speed from your centre backs to maintain a high line. Varane is rapid, and Martinez looks quick enough from what limited viewing I have. That's why I think Lindelöf and Maguire just don't work as a partnership - both are slow.

Yes, highline defending requires pace, at least from one defender (in Liverpool VVD is fast while Matip isn't) , unless your team can dominate the ball for 70% or more, I remember Pique & Puyol or Mascherano weren't fast, but what helped was Barca's pressing/counter pressing and dominating the ball extremely well.

 

[Chief123]

Just go and read the posters in the Maguire thread who staunchly defend him to their death despite how shit he is, but they won’t say a word of praise here for Varane. And then they think everyone else has the agenda.

Im not one to call out people, but just wanted to say hi to @SadlerMUFC and @Lentwood

 

[Rajma]

Has to stay fit, I don’t want to see Maguire ever again as permanent feature in our first team lineups.

 

[phelans shorts]

Wonder where are all the posters who said "past his best", "there is a reason why Madrid did him" and more bs.

Last season also he started very well and then for injured, he was poor only in the last few games when entire squad just have up. They was clear difference in how we defended with and without Varane.

He didn’t start very well last season at all.

I’ve posted in here several times that he’s playing like the player we thought we were getting, not what we got last season, and I’m happy to be having my doubts answered! I don’t care about winning a silly conversation on the internet anywhere near as much as I do seeing my club play well

 

[Rossa]

Yes, highline defending requires pace, at least from one defender (in Liverpool VVD is fast while Matip isn't) , unless your team can dominate the ball for 70% or more, I remember Pique & Puyol or Mascherano weren't fast, but what helped was Barca's pressing/counter pressing and dominating the ball extremely well.

You need someone to cover for speed. Barcelona had two fullbacks with speed - Alves and Alba who were great for recovery. Matip isn't slow either, and Konate and Gomez are both fast - Phillips not so much. City doesn't have the fastest centre backs, but then they have Walker who is twice as fast as most other players on the planet - say one thing for Kyle Walker, the man knows how to run. And of course, having the best keeper-sweeper in the world also allows for this. DDG is much more rooted to his line.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes, highline defending requires pace, at least from one defender (in Liverpool VVD is fast while Matip isn't) , unless your team can dominate the ball for 70% or more, I remember Pique & Puyol or Mascherano weren't fast, but what helped was Barca's pressing/counter pressing and dominating the ball extremely well.

Matip is not slow and Konate is rapid

 

[Hughes35]

He's class isn't he? Looks fully fit and back to his best.

On form he's the best CB we've had since Rio (Not as good as Rio before some of you rip my head off).

 

[roonster09]

He didn’t start very well last season at all.

I’ve posted in here several times that he’s playing like the player we thought we were getting, not what we got last season, and I’m happy to be having my doubts answered! I don’t care about winning a silly conversation on the internet anywhere near as much as I do seeing my club play well

He started the season well, people were raving about him and the posts are still there in the performance thread. Then couple of decent games and injuries started.

His end to the season was very poor and that's what most remember.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think you've misunderstood me. The type of defending I'm talking about is what you are saying, man marking and sitting deep waiting for that man to come to you so you can tackle him. He's no good at organising himself to attackers who move across the line or reading when teammates need cover. When he tries he often ends up in no man's land.

Ok then I misunderstood, yes that’s how I see it. Basically we signed a less aggressive Ryan Shawcross for £80m.

 

[phelans shorts]

He started the season well, people were raving about him and the posts are still there in the performance thread. Then couple of decent games and injuries started.

His end to the season was very poor and that's what most remember.

I remember being very unimpressed from one of his first home games after a very solid debut at Wolves and him never really picking it back up, maybe Villarreal as it was a night game, but what’s done is done.

He’s looking fantastic right now and I am more than happy to have egg (and a smile) on my face and watch him keep performing like this.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Essentially he's a better defender than Maguire, his style of defending complements Licha better than Maguire's does and he's fairly obviously much more confident in himself right now than Maguire.

I'm no Maguire hater but it's pretty evident that he doesn't belong in the starting XI right now.

 

[Ayoba]

GET THE COTTON WOOL OUT!!!

 

[The Corinthian]

He’s a beautiful man.

 

[Rossa]

Matip is not slow and Konate is rapid

Yeah, it's vital for Liverpool to have fast centre backs with how high up their defense and in particular their fullbacks are. Matip is quite fast over distance, and obviously VVD is very fat - Konate perhaps even more so.

 

[red woppit]

Yeah, I'd rather us risk the occasional Maguire game then run him into the ground. Need 30 starts from him in the league to have a chance at top 4.

I have a feeling that Maguire, along with Lindelof, Shaw and AWB may be the Europa cup defence, but perhaps that is what I wish for all, but I'm certain Varane won't play Sunday, Thursday, Sunday etc.

 

[red woppit]

I think he suffers when Maguire is his partner.

He certainly did last season. Maguire always seems too laid back, and tends to fall over when tackled/harassed by a striker. I had the feeling that Varane was never certain where Maguire would actually position himself in be a defensive situation, so therefore he always seemed very tentative.
I'm hopeful that Maguire as well as Lindelof, Shaw and AWB will improve their performance under Ten Hag. Martial, Dalot, McTominay and to a point Sancho and Rashford have all improved this season, so I'm looking forward to all of those players mentioned having an upturn in form.

 

[Rooney108]

The shining light of our season so far. He really looks like himself and Martinez can form a formidable partnership.

Has been so calm and assured at the back which has given Martinez the opportunity to bed in to the team and find his feet in the league. Fingers crossed he stays fit for a run of games, looking forward to seeing him come up against the much hyped Arsenal front line on Sunday, if we keep another clean sheet we could really start building a good run.

 

[BusbyMalone]

He's much more in tuned with the defence as a whole, as opposed to just focusing on his individual performance. He covers Martinez well because he's so good at reading the game.

 

[Sylar]

Difficult to overstate just how important his fitness will go towards influencing the success of our season.

Agreed. Hes a monster at the back and something weve needed for some time. Think we saw it in glimpses last season (mixed with a mistake here and there). But defensively we looked better with him rather than without him.

 

[Tony247]

He didn’t start very well last season at all.

Maguire can send people into depression.

 

[romufc]

I just feel that he looked like he was panicking last season, now it is obvious that it came from Maguire, Shaw, AWB being so passive in their defending.

He has started this season well tbf.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Matip is not slow and Konate is rapid

Matip isn't as slow as Maguire but he isn't really that quick, of course Konate is very quick.

 

[MadDogg]

He started the season well, people were raving about him and the posts are still there in the performance thread. Then couple of decent games and injuries started.

His end to the season was very poor and that's what most remember.

The start of last season he was very much getting the 'new signing' benefit. He was decidedly average pretty much the entire season when fit, with a small handful of truly good games and a larger handful of truly bad games. Obviously he walked into an absolute mess with an incredibly disorganised defensive structure so it was difficult for him to shine (then the injuries made it even harder), but ultimately we can only rate him on how he performed which was average at best.

His start to this season is very promising so hopefully he can continue. He did have some similar matches last season but he just couldn't maintain it.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

You need someone to cover for speed. Barcelona had two fullbacks with speed - Alves and Alba who were great for recovery. Matip isn't slow either, and Konate and Gomez are both fast - Phillips not so much. City doesn't have the fastest centre backs, but then they have Walker who is twice as fast as most other players on the planet - say one thing for Kyle Walker, the man knows how to run. And of course, having the best keeper-sweeper in the world also allows for this. DDG is much more rooted to his line.

Agree with all you said, of course I don't mean Matip is slow as Maguire for example, but compared to Konate he is slow, however Matip is quite adept at playing in highline defense and tends to position himself well, his main weakness is his injuries.

 

[Tony247]

Perhaps last season it was Maguire, AWB screwing his head during the game and he has found better partners this year. And also perhaps ETH giving him correct instructions and setting up defense to maximize each other's potential. ETH is known for his solid defensive work.

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