[Olecurls99]

Has anyone ever asked themselves, would any other top team in Europe try to shoehorn the likes of Maguire/Lindelof into their team ahead of Varane? City, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca? Bayern? Any of them?

The injuries are frustrating. But to justify not starting him because he's injured, he actually has to be injured.. If he's fit you start him.

This all day. Clearly our best centre half

 

[cletus7]

This all day. Clearly our best centre half

He doesn’t play the best so I don’t know what you’re basing that on.

 

[Cro]

Varane has the ability and experience to lead the team, but I don't agree that he should just start because of past glory - and that's all there is at the moment. There should be competition for every position, especially at the start of the season. If he really delivers over a good run of games and there is a good connection between him and his partner at CB, then he should get the benefit of the doubt at times, but he has to earn this kind of status like everybody else. People saying he has been or is our best CB are maybe right when it comes to ability, but based on performances he hasn't been better than the rest of the lot. Furthermore, he looked shaky for me at times against Vallecano, as he played himself into trouble on a few occasions. I don't see him starting at the weekend, as Martinez looked better right away and Maguire / Lindelof have the advantage of being fitter due to playing more games in pre season.

 

[Olecurls99]

He doesn’t play the best so I don’t know what you’re basing that on.

I think he does

 

[pocco]

I was sat with a good view of him and our defence for the 2nd half yesterday and what I saw just strengthened my belief that he is not an a good 'footballer' and not a 'classy' CB like people claimed he was. Honestly, up close the guy looks so uncomfortable on the ball. He reminds me of Smalling a lot with his body shape etc. The amount of times there were clear routes to pass to our midfield which he ignored to go long (and give the ball away with misplaces passes) was startling.

 

[Olecurls99]

He was our best centre half last year.

He has been the best centre half over his career.

He hasn't had a good preseason due to injury. If he's fit he's the best though. Easily the best.

 

[sullydnl]

The first thing he had to do is get and stay fit. It's fine saying that he's our best CB when he is able to play but if that doesn't last then ETH is absolutely entitled to think he's better off with a Maguire/Martinez partnership that he can depend on to play week in week out with less disruption.

Once he's back to peak fitness and over his injury issues then we'll see.

 

[romufc]

He was our best centre half last year.

He has been the best centre half over his career.

He hasn't had a good preseason due to injury. If he's fit he's the best though. Easily the best.

Based on what? The fact he was injured more often than not?

He made loads of mistakes last season.

 

[phelans shorts]

He was our best centre half last year.

He has been the best centre half over his career.

He hasn't had a good preseason due to injury. If he's fit he's the best though. Easily the best.

We’ll that’s just absolute nonsense.

Since I’m feeling generous I’ll say it’s confirmation bias.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

He was our best centre half last year.

He has been the best centre half over his career.

He hasn't had a good preseason due to injury. If he's fit he's the best though. Easily the best.

He's probably the best centre back we have, but he's definitely not shown that in United colours.

Lindelof was the best CB at the club last season. Not a glowing report to be fair, being the best of a collective bad bunch.

 

[Borys]

That's the problem with definitive statements like "he was the best CB last season by far" is that they are often based on the image of the player compared to players we not-that-highly-rated. For example Varane has shown nothing of note last season, but he has a high reputation for France and Madrid, and because both Maguire and Lindelof were a bit meh - therefore Varane is the best CB we have.

It's similar to Pogba situation, constantly called "the best midfielder at the club" despite being less effective than other players with far worse skillset. But because he bossed it for France (or France bossed an opponent just as they do 8/10 times), therefore he must be our best midfielder.

"Sancho was by far our best player in pre-season" is a statement that most on here would probably agree, but it's difficult to say who was "by far our best CB last season". I would say Lindelof was a bit better than Maguire, and there isn't much between Varane and Maguire from last season. I believe Harry had Euro hangover and has proven to be a better CB in EPL than his last season performances, so it's Varane who has a lot to prove to be called "the best CB at the club". Right now he doesn't inspire with confidence at all and he's 4th/5th choice Centre Back based on last season and pre-season.

 

[caleb2003]

You couldn't tell me that wasn't Chris Smalling out there today. He was so ponderous and poor on the ball.

After that half, Maguire is 100% ahead of him. I'm a fan of Varane and want him to start but you can pass as terribly as he did today in a EtH side.

Other teams used to do the same tactic of leaving Smalling unmarked and then pouncing on his touch or pass as well. Varane Laird and Ching were caught out so often with this, it was getting annoying seeing the ball go to them

 

[Olecurls99]

We’ll that’s just absolute nonsense.

Since I’m feeling generous I’ll say it’s confirmation bias.

Who was better?

 

[Olecurls99]

Based on what? The fact he was injured more often than not?

He made loads of mistakes last season.

Who was better? Apologies for the double question

 

[phelans shorts]

Who was better?

Victor Lindelof.

Who himself wasn’t actually good over the full season.

 

[MadDogg]

Who was better?

Lindelof's first half of the season was easily better than any period any of our other defenders had. He was very poor in the second half of the season, but sadly he was still the best overall.

Varane did have a handful of good games, but otherwise he was average to downright poor. Meanwhile Maguire was obviously atrocious in the first half of the season, but improved to being average to poor in the second half.

 

[Olecurls99]

Lindelof's first half of the season was easily better than any period any of our other defenders had. He was very poor in the second half of the season, but sadly he was still the best overall.

Varane did have a handful of good games, but otherwise he was average to downright poor. Meanwhile Maguire was obviously atrocious in the first half of the season, but improved to being average to poor in the second half.

I thought the only bad games he had were towards the very end but they could be excused by the fact that the whole squad were on their hollibops. Apart from that I thought he was very good when he played and comfortably the better of whoever he was paired with.

 

[Teja]

I'm actually amazed that he's worse on the ball than Maguire - a guy who has the turning radius of a tank. Willing to reserve judgement until he's had some more training work and gets fully up to speed.

 

[MadDogg]

I'm actually amazed that he's worse on the ball than Maguire - a guy who has the turning radius of a tank. Willing to reserve judgement until he's had some more training work and gets fully up to speed.

Maguire is slow to release the ball (and as such does have a tendency to get caught on the ball occasionally), but he's fairly good at using it. Indeed he has a notable strength of being able to find the left winger or fullback in dangerous positions with his passing out to that side. It's actually one thing that I'm interested in seeing now that he's moving over to play on the right; will he be able to play that ball more, less or about the same as what he did when he played on the left.

 

[Teja]

Maguire is slow to release the ball (and as such does have a tendency to get caught on the ball occasionally), but he's fairly good at using it. Indeed he has a notable strength of being able to find the left winger or fullback in dangerous positions with his passing out to that side. It's actually one thing that I'm interested in seeing now that he's moving over to play on the right; will he be able to play that ball more, less or about the same as what he did when he played on the left.

Yeah Maguire's passing ability when a striker isn't running at him at a 100mph trying to press him is pretty top notch. I think that's partly why we were deceived into thinking he was a ball playing CB.

On the other hand when he was put under pressure by an attacker last season he either just shat himself and did something stupid or he dwelled on the ball too long and had it nicked off him. I don't think it was occasionally either, it got to a point where opposition teams routinely used him as a pressing trigger.

That's why I'm surprised that Varane has the same issue - he should be more nimble than Maguire in theory and should be able to evade the press a little bit better. Didn't really see that happening at all yesterday. He is also very two footed and that should again in theory open up more passing angles etc. but that didn't happen either.

I really think if we give him a little more time he'll improve in this regard.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Maguire is slow to release the ball (and as such does have a tendency to get caught on the ball occasionally), but he's fairly good at using it. Indeed he has a notable strength of being able to find the left winger or fullback in dangerous positions with his passing out to that side. It's actually one thing that I'm interested in seeing now that he's moving over to play on the right; will he be able to play that ball more, less or about the same as what he did when he played on the left.

He had quite a few nice switches from rcb to Malacia/Rashford iirc in the game. I don't remember too many from him when playing lcb to right wing in previous seasons. Perhaps it's easier to do the opposite switch as he doesn't have to turn inwards to his stronger foot (from lcb).

 

[Pronewbie]

Yeah Maguire's passing ability when a striker isn't running at him at a 100mph trying to press him is pretty top notch. I think that's partly why we were deceived into thinking he was a ball playing CB.

On the other hand when he was put under pressure by an attacker last season he either just shat himself and did something stupid or he dwelled on the ball too long and had it nicked off him. I don't think it was occasionally either, it got to a point where opposition teams routinely used him as a pressing trigger.

That's why I'm surprised that Varane has the same issue - he should be more nimble than Maguire in theory and should be able to evade the press a little bit better. Didn't really see that happening at all yesterday. He is also very two footed and that should again in theory open up more passing angles etc. but that didn't happen either.

I really think if we give him a little more time he'll improve in this regard.

These are the kind of things you have to be at the stadium to observe. Could be other players or the system contributing to the mess, too. But yes, Maguire looked like his mind was in Greece last season.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

One thing I find interesting about Varane is the misconception that he's this rolls royce style defender when he's anything but. He's quick and calm and hence gives that impression. But he's actually really average on the ball by modern CB standards.

 

[sillwuka]

I think Varane is fine under no pressure but he doesn't do well when pressed, teams will start to target him.

 

[Olecurls99]

I think Varane is fine under no pressure but he doesn't do well when pressed, teams will start to target him.

There was loads of times where he won a header or a duel and found a team mate last year. It just wouldn't happen with the other lads. He's also 2 footed unlike the rest.

 

[Olecurls99]

Tell me our other players do things like this.

 

[saivet]

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[Irwin99]

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Don't know if it was a complete myth but wasn't RVP reported to have had something similar and it worked for him in his last year at Arsenal and his first year for us. Could be untrue though.

Hoping we see the best of Varane this season.

 

[Red the Bear]

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Than I assume he's planning to use him at the very least semi regularly.

In the end something has to give, I really prefer if we had a first choice partnership the way we did with Rio and vidic, most successful clubs seem to have that so one the 3 between Harry varane and Martinez should see a drop in the pecking order come next season and Varane's chances as of now kinda look bad.

 

[Shnabb]

Than I assume he's planning to use him at the very least semi regularly.

In the end something has to give, I really prefer if we had a first choice partnership the way we did with Rio and vidic, most successful clubs seem to have that so one the 3 between Harry varane and Martinez should see a drop in the pecking order come next season and Varane's chances as of now kinda look bad.

Semi regularly? I would expect him to be the first name in the starting XI, if fit. I think Varane and Ronaldo (maybe Bruno and de Gea) are the only ones at the club who we can claim to be world class.

 

[Red the Bear]

Semi regularly? I would expect him to be the first name in the starting XI, if fit. I think Varane and Ronaldo (maybe Bruno and de Gea) are the only ones at the club who we can claim to be world class.

I would have agreed with that at the start of the last season but he's been constantly injured and when available hit and miss.
Ten hag seems to like Harry and I doubt we paid a record amount for Martinez to have him as a back up so Varane's place in the starting line up by no means is safe.

Nonetheless I expect all of our main 3 cb's plus victor to get a decent share of starts over the course of season due to injuries, fatigue, game workload or whatever but Varane's path to being the first name in the backline is an uphill one.

He's a consummate pro so I expect to do his best.

 

[SWE-Chucky]

Too even compare Lindelöf, Maguire, Jones or Bailly with Varane is an insult to one of the best CBS the last 10 years - when the rumors started last year that we had the chance to sign him, 99% of our fan base was not believing we had the chance to sign him if he was to leave Real Madrid, i remember him walking with the United shirt before the first game at Old Trafford last season, the reception we showed him was and is the respect he deserves. He had a season ruined with injuries last season, he didn't get the chance to find the form and get 15-20 games in a row before picking up another injury that kept him from training for weeks, those small injuries that destroyed his match rhythm was the reason he didn't really play his best football, but when he was playing, we saw in many games that he was by far the best CB we have. I would still prefer him having one solid CDM that can cover up for him when he drives the ball up through the pitch and let's him play his passes through the opponents press - and that why is i have been approaching us playing Martinez as CDM and buy Pau Torres to play next to Varane (so we can have a left footed CB, having a left footed for LCB and right footed for RCB let us start our attacks faster because its easier to get the ball out to the fullbacks if we cant play through the middle). I am sure Martinez, if him and Varane gets the chance to play together, will work very good, my problem is not Martinex as a CB, the problem is us not having a CDM or a deep playing CM (McFred) that can pass good enough and Martinez is an excellent passer and has played as a CDM before and i read in interview with him (it was maybe 1-2 years old) were he said that he is comfortable playing either CB or CDM.

Martinez as a CDM next to Fred that can play where he was supposed to play when we bought him, as a box-to-box (the reason many teams wanted to buy him after his performances in the CL, like the game against City), would be a good pair behind Bruno/Eriksen. But i dont believe we will buy Torres or FDJ. getting both of them would actually give us a really good starting eleven, and if we could get a RW - like Antony, even though that is also probably 0% chance, we could be fighting for 3rd place this season already. And give it 1-2 more summer transfer windows, and maybe, we could be back were we belong. But unfortunately, we will end up with McFred probably and no RW or ST and that will get us back to fighting for the Europa League spot.

Dream:
DDG
Dalot Varane Torres Malacia
Bruno Martinez FDJ
Antony ST Sancho

ST = Ronaldo if he stays, there is no chance we keep him in the club and him not being the first choice, if he leaves and we don't buy a ST then give Martial a proper chance and Rashford can also play in that position.

 

[Giant Midget]

Hope he starts in our next game.

 

[FootballHQ]

Wonder if he'll look to move, going from regular at Real Madrid to backup to Maguire in 12 months isn't a great situation although assume he'll still start for France at World cup. Feels like Ten Haag will try out a 3-4-3 at some stage so he may return.

 

[Long Time Red]

Wonder if he'll look to move, going from regular at Real Madrid to backup to Maguire in 12 months isn't a great situation although assume he'll still start for France at World cup. Feels like Ten Haag will try out a 3-4-3 at some stage so he may return.

Either way, if he's not going to be first choice we can't afford to have a backup centre back earning 300k-400k or whatever wages he's on.

 

[Ayoba]

Wonder if he'll look to move, going from regular at Real Madrid to backup to Maguire in 12 months isn't a great situation although assume he'll still start for France at World cup. Feels like Ten Haag will try out a 3-4-3 at some stage so he may return.

If I was him, I'd get the feck out of here asap.

 

[Dominos]

Hoping we see the best of Varane this season.

Maguire is captain, and he's not spent £50m on Martinez to put him on the bench.

It will take some disaster performances from Martinez/Maguire for Varane to regain his place.

It seems bizarre to me but we don't do things logically at this club.

 

[Irwin99]

Maguire is captain, and he's not spent £50m on Martinez to put him on the bench.

It will take some disaster performances from Martinez/Maguire for Varane to regain his place.

It seems bizarre to me but we don't do things logically at this club.

I think a back 3 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world with this squad and Varane is a nice option to have. Wonder if ten Hag has ever used that system? It's arguably our strongest position in the squad, our full backs are astonishingly dire and need all the help they can get, and hopefully it would tighten up the defence. That first goal today is just something I keep seeing us conceding and it will happen with that midfield and these full backs. You can get behind them with ease.

 

[TempusFugit]

Can't believe we're benching Raphaël Varane when we're so bad defensively. Play him until he gets injured again, let him recover then play him again. Our only CB with an aura that makes attackers think twice. The rest are shite and average.

 

[El Jefe]

Why do I feel like he never starts or is unavailable in the games we get a mauling.

Moral of the story, he is by far our best CB even if he's out of form and his mere presence will at least prevent a total collapse.